How to handle marriage delay?

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

. What I want to know is how to accelerate it. How I need to behave so that she’ll be ready sooner. 

Nothing. 

You do nothing. This is her journey to take. if she isn't ready when you want, you will have to consider ending it. 

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Sure, maybe she says that. 

I am not convinced that she means it, in her heart of hearts.  Stop talking about marriage, in any case. It is clear she is not ready for that or kids. Give yourself a mental timeline of how long you will wait if you don't see any steps in that direction. That's all you can do. 

Well, I know for a fact that she tried to commit to that ex of hers and come back to him even after they had broken up and their relationship stopped being great. Then she had to choose between him and me, and I think the mere fact that she chose me is still something like a shock to her. On top of that, she still feels very guilty for leaving him.

What I’m trying to say is that I don’t doubt her commitment to me, but I doubt whether she is able to view it as something positive, because it cost her a lot. She had to do what she describes as the most hurtful action she ever did, she had to change her entire life plan (staying in her country instead of moving), she risked problems with her parents, who love her ex like a son and think she was crazy to choose me, and so on.

I’m trying to find a way to make her feel more comfortable, safe, and happy with me.

Do you think that if I stop mentioning marriage and kids for a while and just let things go at her pace she’ll feel better about the whole thing?

[Gebidozo]

8 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Nothing. 

You do nothing. This is her journey to take. if she isn't ready when you want, you will have to consider ending it. 

That’s not an option for me. I’ll stay with her even if we never marry and never have kids, as long as she wants to stay with me.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Do you think that if I stop mentioning marriage and kids for a while and just let things go at her pace she’ll feel better about the whole thing?

Maybe. She will certainly feel less pressured. 

2 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I’ll stay with her even if we never marry and never have kids

Ok, so why the push to marry? 

[Gebidozo]

7 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Maybe. She will certainly feel less pressured. 

Ok, so why the push to marry? 

I… don’t know anymore. I really don’t. I guess I just love the idea of being married. It gives me security and a warm fuzzy feeling. That’s why I married 3 times. Every time it ended in a burning crash. I’m not even sure I genuinely want it myself now. I just want to be with her forever, and I feel that maybe the right way to express that commitment is by marrying her.

I know the above paragraph sounds pretty ridiculous. I can see it now.

Edited September 25 by Gebidozo

[basil67]

 

32 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

That’s not an option for me. I’ll stay with her even if we never marry and never have kids, as long as she wants to stay with me.

If you truly mean this, you will stop pushing EVERYTHING.    

35 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I’m trying to find a way to make her feel more comfortable, safe, and happy with me.

Why do you think she doesn't feel comfortable, safe and happy with you?  What signs of discontent is she showing?

[Gebidozo]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Why do you think she doesn't feel comfortable, safe and happy with you?  What signs of discontent is she showing?

I just know it must be hard for her. Breaking up for good with the guy she had long thought to be “the one”, canceling her entire life plan, antagonizing her parents, getting together with a dude whose past would be one gigantic red flag for a lot of people, and so on.

Otherwise, no, I don’t mean that she isn’t happy in our regular life. She does seem happy, unless there is stressful talk about marriage and such.

[basil67]

36 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I just know it must be hard for her. Breaking up for good with the guy she had long thought to be “the one”, canceling her entire life plan, antagonizing her parents, getting together with a dude whose past would be one gigantic red flag for a lot of people, and so on.

Otherwise, no, I don’t mean that she isn’t happy in our regular life. She does seem happy, unless there is stressful talk about marriage and such.

If she genuinely thought he was the one, she wouldn't have a) strung him along for all those years and b) had an affair with you

And if she's happy in your regular life and you can live without marriage and babies, then just continue as you are

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I just know it must be hard for her. Breaking up for good with the guy she had long thought to be “the one”, canceling her entire life plan, antagonizing her parents, getting together with a dude whose past would be one gigantic red flag for a lot of people, and so on.

I get that - but this was also more than a couple years ago now. 

If she still hasn't managed to move beyond that to the extent that it truly prevents her from moving forward with you, the problem runs much more deeply than you realize. 

Edited September 25 by ExpatInItaly

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

If she genuinely thought he was the one, she wouldn't have a) strung him along for all those years and b) had an affair with you

Oh, she never strung him along, she was very committed to him. They just weren’t in a hurry to get married. Her affair with me was when she was single, I was the one in a relationship.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I get that - but this was also more than a couple years ago now. 

If she still hasn't managed to move beyond that to the extent that it truly prevents her from moving forward with you, the problem runs much more deeply than you realize. 

Well, we had a long, sincere talk today, and she made several things very clear:

1) She does envision the two of us getting married and having children, but she isn’t ready for those steps yet.

2) She did agree to that date to please me, even though she wasn’t actually ready.

3) The engagement a year ago was too fast for her as well, and if it were up to her, she’d only do it now instead of a year ago.

So basically we got… re-engaged. And I told her that we’ll only get married when she’s truly ready and I don’t want to set up any dates for now.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

And if she's happy in your regular life and you can live without marriage and babies, then just continue as you are

I could in principle, there is just another issue here which worries me, and I’m not sure what to do about it.

It’s this: basically, our countries (mine and hers) are not in a good relationship with each other currently. I’ve been living in her country for 20 years, longer than in any other country. I’m used to the life here, I like it, and I’ve made a very successful career in this city. But I still have to get a work visa every half a year. And I’m very afraid that her country might cut off diplomatic relations with my country and I’ll have to leave. Now, if we were married, it would be much easier for me to stay here.

I know how unromantic this is, and I hate to bring it up to her, but this issue genuinely worries me. And it was one of the reasons for rushing into marrying her. I know how it looks like, like I’m marrying her for a visa, but it’s really not that, I’m just scared that we might be separated for stupid political reasons.

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

I’m just scared that we might be separated for stupid political reasons.

You've got to get the real information on this issue. In my country the new spouse does not get citizenship automatically after marrying. When they marry their current status is cancelled and they have to reapply from 0 with their new status. 

[Gaeta]

17 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You've got to get the real information on this issue. In my country the new spouse does not get citizenship automatically after marrying. When they marry their current status is cancelled and they have to reapply from 0 with their new status. 

I forgot to ask, why haven't you apply for your permanent residency in 20 years?

[Gebidozo]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You've got to get the real information on this issue. In my country the new spouse does not get citizenship automatically after marrying. When they marry their current status is cancelled and they have to reapply from 0 with their new status. 

Oh, I can never become a citizen of her country. It’s more about having a better chance to stay together if, God forbid, our two countries are at war.

[Gebidozo]

Just now, Gaeta said:

I forgot to ask, why haven't you apply for your permanent residency in 20 years?

Permanent residency is only possible if you’ve been married to a local person for 5 years or more. I never was.

Otherwise, there is the very stable “marriage visa”, which is almost like permanent residency, except you have to renew it every year and it obviously expires when you divorce.

[Gaeta]

6 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

What I want to know is how to accelerate it. How I need to behave so that she’ll be ready sooner. 

This is your old thinking pattern resurging. You know we cannot make anyone progress to anything. 

All this pressure of getting married and having children is your way of finding security but these things do not bring us security in a relationship. People divorce us, cheat on us, leave us. It's reality of life. The only commitment we get is that every morning we get up and commit to each other for that day. Keep in mind if this falls apart you will be alright and you will move on. 

I counted 7 members participating to this thread and all of us have the same take on your situation. Not one person differs. Your girlfriend does not want to get married and she does not want children. She knows people change their mind sometimes and that's why she says 'later' but she is not at the point of visualizing that 'later'. When people say I need a few years they're just shoveling the problem in a far future. It's like throwing something out of sight and thinking I'll deal with it later.

I think you need to start conditioning yourself there will not be a wedding and children. And it's alright. 

[Gebidozo]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

Your girlfriend does not want to get married and she does not want children.

Well, she just told me today again that she does. I see no reason not to trust her. She says she wants to get married and have children in the future, but not just now. There is no reason to suspect her of lying.

I don’t want to have children right now, either. But I do want to have children in general. I know for a fact that I’m not lying, and I’m saying the same thing as her. It’s just the expectations for the marriage date that differ here. 

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

She says she wants to get married and have children in the future

You're concentrating on those few words and not looking at the big picture. 

[stillafool]

Usually women who are at the age of 30 and want kids are seriously thinking about their timeline.

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

That’s not an option for me. I’ll stay with her even if we never marry and never have kids, as long as she wants to stay with me.

I think you should lead with this. You've been married three times already and each time you mention it ended in a burning crash. Maybe part of her hesitation is that she doesn't want to end up like your previous wives who ended up with heartbreak and a destroyed marriage. I realize she cited that she has feelings  of guilt over breaking up with her previous long term boyfriend, but I can't help but wonder if she's also afraid that if you two do marry, the same sort of disaster would happen again. Maybe start with a conversation where you say regardless of whether or not you ever marry, you'll be happy to be with her, listen to her and love her as a part of your life, and not a means to some end game.

[Gebidozo]

53 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You're concentrating on those few words and not looking at the big picture. 

I cannot ignore her words, she made it very clear today. But even so, if for some reason she really never marries me and never has kids with me - so be it. This is by far the best relationship of my life, I’d be a fool to give up on it for whatever reason.

[Gaeta]

51 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

But even so, if for some reason she really never marries me and never has kids with me - so be it. This is by far the best relationship of my life, I’d be a fool to give up on it for whatever reason.

No one tells you to let go of the relationship. We're telling you if you want marriage & kids you will be disappointed.

About her words, you are focusing on certain words and not on certain other words & actions like cancelling, delaying, shoveling forward the timeline in terms of years. 

Also, when we're at your age (I am 10 years ahead of you) when we talk in terms of a few years we have a limit in mind because we're counting the good years we have left. At 30 the expression of in a few years means nothing, it's limitless, it's somewhere out there in a future they cannot even imagine themselves in yet.

 

[Gebidozo]

8 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I think you should lead with this. You've been married three times already and each time you mention it ended in a burning crash. Maybe part of her hesitation is that she doesn't want to end up like your previous wives who ended up with heartbreak and a destroyed marriage. I realize she cited that she has feelings  of guilt over breaking up with her previous long term boyfriend, but I can't help but wonder if she's also afraid that if you two do marry, the same sort of disaster would happen again. Maybe start with a conversation where you say regardless of whether or not you ever marry, you'll be happy to be with her, listen to her and love her as a part of your life, and not a means to some end game.

This is exactly what I think, too.

I know she doesn’t want to hurt me and basically tries to make it all into a “it’s not you, it’s me” thing, but it’s impossible that my past hasn’t cast a shadow of doubt over her. I got married for wrong reasons before. I pushed her to get married too soon because I wanted to feel secure, which is also a wrong reason.

Anyone would be hesitant in her place.

Thank you so much for wording it so precisely.

I’ll definitely tell her that I’ll be with her even if we never get married.

 

 

[Gebidozo]

9 hours ago, stillafool said:

Usually women who are at the age of 30 and want kids are seriously thinking about their timeline.

She never wanted kids before. This is the first time that the has begun to think about having kids.

I think that perhaps I shouldn’t have brought it up so early.