Busy life, unhappy wife

[TrailHand]

Hi guys. Looking for a female perspective here and I'm not much of a writer so ask questions if this comes out confusing. 

My wife and I have been married since we were in our early 20s (we're mid-50's now) and things have always been a little....less than stellar. She's a professional and driven person, not very touchy-feely nor cuddly, and I'm a rancher that always has a hammer, hog, or hobnail in my hand but I also love to just fall on the couch together and snuggle and watch movies. We've made it work for the most part though, with me running things at home, on the ranch, and with the kids and her doing office work. 

That's the background. 

Since I have a functioning business, I like to keep her in the loop and so I schedule "meetings" every month so we can go over how the ranch is running, our different income streams, any expenses and downturns, market values, etc. This is done as we go out to lunch or dinner together so we're doing "business" stuff but also having a little date. I enjoy it VERY much. I feel like it fulfills the going out on a date checkbox and it also gets counted as a business expense so it's a tax deduction (I'm Scottish by blood, so tax deductions give me a special RAWRRRR feeling). 

While she's never really gotten involved in ranching or seemed particularly interested in the day-to-day goings on, she does seem to pay attention at our "meetings" and likes to know the net worth of things. She is similar to a project manager at her job so maybe it scratches her itch for management? IDK. Anyway...

Today she told me that she was not really interested in our meetings. In fact, she would rather go out to dinner or on a getaway where we didn't discuss our business or get any deductions, but just went and spent our savings instead, because it would mean more to her if we did it that way.  To me, this seems ridiculous. If I can buy a dinner for $50 and get $25 back then I'm happy as a clam. I never talk about the fact that we're essentially getting discounts on everything, but I have included her in the filings and expressed glee at the time, so it's not a secret. I just can't fathom why it would be better to a professional minded person that we spend savings - especially this high up in years as we are - instead of business income and get our deductions. To me, this seems like "Step on that glass so I know you love me" kinda nonsense. 

Anyway, that's the conundrum. I'm sure I'm going to do it, but it will definitely take any pleasure out of the dinner for me in doing it this way, and I think I'll probably be resentful too.
I guess what I'm asking is - Why does it matter?

And am I being unreasonable or obtuse? 

Thanks for reading. 

TH

 

[Mrin]

Dude here. Yes. You are being obtuse. Sweet Jesus man... Your woman wants to be taken out on a proper date and feel spoiled/doted on by you. Not because you can get a deduction. Not because it makes sound business sense. But because you want to treat your woman to a fun night out. Woo her for Pete's sake. She's worth it, right?

How in God's name have you made it this many decades together?

Mrin

 

[basil67]

It's not rocket science:  She wants a dinner which isn't a business meeting.  A time when you can both relax, forget the farm and just enjoy each other's company.   This is a perfectly reasonable request.   It's Romance 101

 

[ExpatInItaly]

You can't be serious with this. 

If you genuinely can't see why she isn't thrilled about these weird business meeting-dates, it's no wonder your marriage isn't great. 

[Gebidozo]

 

7 hours ago, TrailHand said:

I guess what I'm asking is - Why does it matter?

It matters to her. Why can’t you simply do it for her because she asked you to?

You said you were going to do it, but might become resentful. Resentful? Because your wife wants to go out on a romantic date with you and spend some money while doing that?

Frankly, if that’s the way you’ve been always treating your wife I’m surprised she hasn’t complained till now.

Please do everything in your power to please her and rekindle the romance. Otherwise things might end badly.

[BaileyB]

Why can you not do both? 

I mean, surely you must take her out for a nice dinner or a weekend getaway occasionally - on a proper date? Surely the only time that you take your wife out for a meal is not to discuss the family finances? 

As they say, you should never stop dating your wife. She wants to spend time with you, to have some fun with you, to enjoy life with you - that should be a good thing… right?

[TrailHand]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Why can you not do both? 

This was my thought exactly, except why do they have to be separate? 
If I buy you a steak and I have a coupon for 25% off or whatever, does it make the steak less enjoyable? 

IDK, it just seems like a way to spend money frivolously to me when we should be saving that money for our retirement. 

[Leihla_B]

13 minutes ago, TrailHand said:

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Why can you not do both? 

This was my thought exactly, except why do they have to be separate? 
If I buy you a steak and I have a coupon for 25% off or whatever, does it make the steak less enjoyable? 

It's not the coupon that makes it less enjoyable, it's the subject matter. Yes, it makes perfect sense for a husband and wife to sit down monthly to go over budgets, bills and investments together. But that's a chore shared by both, not 'date night'.

Your wife is asking to add some special dating to your lives, which most successful and happy couples do on the regular--once a week rather than once a month.

Quote

IDK, it just seems like a way to spend money frivolously to me when we should be saving that money for our retirement. 

Retire to do what, sit around and count your money?

If you would 'resent' your wife for wanting to spend valuable time together on one date a month, then what kind of partnership have you got? You'll be retiring alone while wife has found someone fun to be off with.

If you have no interest in spending the time to hear your wife without resenting her, you can be assured that she will find someone who will listen. It will be a lover or a lawyer--or both.

[ExpatInItaly]

30 minutes ago, TrailHand said:

IDK, it just seems like a way to spend money frivolously to me when we should be saving that money for our retirement. 

This is exactly the problem - you're entirely missing the point of your wife's complaint. 

 

[TrailHand]

14 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

It's not the coupon that makes it less enjoyable, it's the subject matter. Yes, it makes perfect sense for a husband and wife to sit down monthly to go over budgets, bills and investments together. But that's a chore shared by both, not 'date night'.

Your wife is asking to add some special dating to your lives, which most successful and happy couples do on the regular--once a week rather than once a month.

Retire to do what, sit around and count your money?

If you would 'resent' your wife for wanting to spend valuable time together on one date a month, then what kind of partnership have you got? You'll be retiring alone while wife has found someone fun to be off with.

If you have no interest in spending the time to hear your wife without resenting her, you can be assured that she will find someone who will listen. It will be a lover or a lawyer--or both.

Once a week is too often, we don't have time to leave the house that often with kids and responsibilities on the ranch, also that would get way too expensive. 

Sit around and count your money? No, we intend to retire and travel. Can't do that if we don't have money. To date we have about 1 mil saved, but our goal is 4 to be able to continue on our current lifestyle and gift some to our children. I am very concerned that we won't make it before I cash in my chips and go tend to the cattle in the sky.

Aside from that, maybe you guys are right in that while it's flat out ******** to blow money for no reason, it's something that will make her happy so bend over and grin and bear it.  Since we just talk about the ranch, her job, or our kids anyway I'm sure I could sneak the deduction in there \and just keep it to myself. I have no interest in eating Alpo in my 70's. 

It sure feels like ripping all the skin off my arm just to scratch a bug bite though, and makes me very uncomfortable. It's not the first time I've been accused of not understanding women, but danged if it makes any sense at all to me. 

 

 

[Alpacalia]

Yes, sorry. Agree with your wife.

Your dates sound like business “meetings” rather than true dates. While the tax deductions may be a nice bonus for you, it seems like your wife is looking for a true escape from the everyday business of running a ranch and wants to just enjoy quality time with you without the added weight of talking about budgets and expenses.

When you go out it's to connect, I think having business meetings that end up being a date in the meantime is not most women's idea of a date.

12 minutes ago, TrailHand said:

To date we have about 1 mil saved, but our goal is 4 to be able to continue on our current lifestyle and gift some to our children. I am very concerned that we won't make it before I cash in my chips and go tend to the cattle in the sky.

You have more than enough money to worry about saving for a lavish lifestyle for your children, and even yourself. What you may be missing out is the experiences and memories that money cannot buy. Perhaps your wife sees that and wants to seize the day and enjoy your time together rather than keep your nose stuck in paperwork and budget planning constantly.

 

Edited September 28 by Alpacalia

[ExpatInItaly]

Yeah...this all sounds very legit and not at all made up. 

[TrailHand]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

 

When you go out it's to connect, I think having business meetings that end up being a date in the meantime is not most women's idea of a date.

You have more than enough money to worry about saving for a lavish lifestyle for your children, and even yourself. What you may be missing out is the experiences and memories that money cannot buy. Perhaps your wife sees that and wants to seize the day and enjoy your time together rather than keep your nose stuck in paperwork and budget planning constantly.

 

I sincerely thought we were connecting. We only discuss the ranch for a small portion of our dates. Our "meetings" usually go like this: 

Pick a place to meet up or go, order anything on the menu. 
Idle chitchat on the way there and waiting for food. Talk about the restaurant, people watching, stuff going on today. 

Get food, say grace, and start eating. Comment on the food itself, then bring up business. 
Have a list of 5 or 6 things to "report", ask input on, etc. Usually about 10 minutes or so. 
Rest of the time we're just yacking and eating. It's not a full on powerpoint presentation, this is a ranch. 

Our lifestyle is far from lavish. We all drive mid 2000's model vehicles and have very little liquid cash. Everyone recommends 4 million to retire and keep an average lifestyle with vacationing and treating yourself. Add to that 5 children and frickin inflation jumping up 20-25% every time we get a new president and you've got a middle class lifestyle spending at that level. 

That's about 8k/month minus taxes to put two of our kids through college (60k x2), pay off the ranch (860k), and buy a travel trailer (112k) then drive around irritating our kids spread across two states and seeing the sights. Lavish we are not. 

 

[TrailHand]

13 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yeah...this all sounds very legit and not at all made up. 

If you're going to troll, please do so elsewhere. I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole "fun to spend money" idea at the age of 55 when we should be worried about eating dog food and sending our children to college, not to mention feeding 220 head of cattle and run a working farm. 

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, TrailHand said:

If I buy you a steak and I have a coupon for 25% off or whatever, does it make the steak less enjoyable? 

No. But not everything in life needs to be practical.

You don’t seem open to any opinion other than your own. So, I will just wish you well. 

[Leihla_B]

1 hour ago, TrailHand said:

Get food, say grace, and start eating. Comment on the food itself, then bring up business. Have a list of 5 or 6 things to "report", ask input on, etc. Usually about 10 minutes or so. Rest of the time we're just yacking and eating. It's not a full on powerpoint presentation, this is a ranch. 

Hah! I do like your humor. This isn't to bash you, it's to help you. ^This is formulaic and suffices as a monthly finance session. But your wife is bored with it as your only 'date night.' She loves you, and she would like to spend some quality time with you. That's actually a nice problem to have. When you say grace, be thankful that she's still interested in you, and consider yourself blessed that she's willing to speak up to invest in your marriage rather than turn cold and turn her interest outward.

While you don't need to date every week, I merely raised that as a common norm so you can recognize that once a month is comparatively easy. There are ways to date on the cheap. You have the Internet at your fingertips. Research local events, festivals, civic engagements, volunteer opportunities, antique or craft or art shows, community plays or concerts, parks to walk, classes to take, boats or scooters or bikes to rent, or even a picnic followed by a simple coffee or ice cream or whatever.

Invest in learning what may interest wife, and schedule something fun--either before or after your dinner meeting, or before or after cooking her a nice meal or packing a portable one. Focus on listening and helping her to feel valued and heard.

None of this is a tragedy. Head high. 

[TrailHand]

5 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

Hah! I do like your humor. This isn't to bash you, it's to help you. ^This is formulaic and suffices as a monthly finance session. But your wife is bored with it as your only 'date night.' She loves you, and she would like to spend some quality time with you. That's actually a nice problem to have. When you say grace, be thankful that she's still interested in you, and consider yourself blessed that she's willing to speak up to invest in your marriage rather than turn cold and turn her interest outward.

 

Believe me I am very thankful! We've both got on in years, a little heaiver than when we started, and a few more wrinkles, but I still think she's awesome. I don't know how to break a quote apart so I will have two replies to your post. You nailed me though, I'm a very "formulaic" guy. I need boxes to check and a big fat "WHY" to justify them. Post 1 of 2

[TrailHand]

8 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

Research local events, festivals, civic engagements, volunteer opportunities, antique or craft or art shows, community plays or concerts, parks to walk, classes to take, boats or scooters or bikes to rent, or even a picnic followed by a simple coffee or ice cream or whatever.

 

A LIST!  I have found an answer! I can do lists. And some of those things don't cost a dime, filling both of our check boxes!

Now since you seem to understand "wifespeak" and also "husbandspeak", can you tell me WHY this is important and it's not enough to just get out like we currently are (in what you call formulaic terms, if you can)? If not, at least I have a list to start with. Thanks again for that. 

 

 

If you guys are interested (besides the Italian, whom I now wish many pineapple pizzas upon), I'll report back after a month or two and let you know how it's going. 
Thanks Leihla. You speak my language. 

 

[Leihla_B]

10 minutes ago, TrailHand said:

A LIST!  I have found an answer! I can do lists. And some of those things don't cost a dime, filling both of our check boxes!

Do you follow a 3 account method--His, Hers, and Ours budgeting/spending system? If not, look into it. The 'Ours' account budgets all shared expenses, investments and savings. Each partner contributes to this fund monthly according to percentages of income, so the bigger earner pays the larger percentage. Once this account is satisfied each week or month, the remainder of earnings goes into the account of the earner. So you each will have your own discretionary income. This allows you each to spend or save that money without consulting the other.

So, if you learn that she has ideas about any dates that are more fancy and expensive, you can include them on the list, but then, use your budget session to negotiate exactly how to pay for it. This can mean you're both willing to pull back on some other expenses, or, she may be willing to spring for that date from her own account while you budget your own expenses for one of the other pricey ones later.

27 minutes ago, TrailHand said:

...can you tell me WHY this is important and it's not enough to just get out like we currently are (in what you call formulaic terms, if you can)?

The fine art of appearing reasonable is often more important than actually being reasonable. Shared experiences and novelty mean more to some people than others. You don't care about them, but your wife does. So don't just nix her ideas out from under her with an attitude--that will harm your relationship. Instead, keep an open spirit of brainstorming. Pretend you're a school teacher who accepts all answers and writes them all on the board. Then negotiate. Offer something of value to her in exchange for something of value to you--they needn't have equal monetary value. In fact, the more generous you're willing to be up front, the more leverage you will earn toward trust, goodwill, and scheduling the cheap stuff later.

[Els]

You can't seriously be thinking about making your wife unhappy to save $25 on tax deductions less than once a week. Saving is all well and good but this is frankly just being penny wise pound foolish.

FWIW, if you're talking about business stuff, it's a business meeting, not a date. Doesn't matter if you're married. It's fine to do some of that if you have ACTUAL dates the rest of the time, but it's not a date.

6 hours ago, TrailHand said:

Once a week is too often, we don't have time to leave the house that often with kids and responsibilities on the ranch, also that would get way too expensive. 

So basically the ONLY time you two ever leave the house together is to have business meetings? Yikes. I'm amazed (and very impressed with your wife) that you're still married...

Edited September 28 by Els

[Els]

2 hours ago, TrailHand said:

WHY this is important and it's not enough to just get out like we currently are (in what you call formulaic terms, if you can)?

Because talking business puts us into work mode. And when 100% of your external interactions with a person are done in work mode, that makes you view that person as a colleague or a business partner, not as a lover or a spouse. I hope you don't need an explanation for why that is bad for a marriage.

[TrailHand]

53 minutes ago, Els said:

 

So basically the ONLY time you two ever leave the house together is to have business meetings? Yikes. I'm amazed (and very impressed with your wife) that you're still married...

Many women aren't as superficial as you make them out to be. We'd be married if we never went to dinner and only ate at home, played with our critters and kids, and rocked on the back porch. This is a very nasty way of categorizing women. If your spouse needs constant attention and "prizes", maybe she's not ready to be in a marriage. 

Thanks for chiming in though. 

[MsJayne]

Your wife is craving romance and the feeling of being cherished. You have a whole farm, surely there's a nice spot somewhere on it that you could surprise her with a romantic picnic every now and then, (nice and cheap  ). What if one of you becomes seriously ill and all that money you're saving for retirement turns out to be a waste of time? It can happen. It's good to be wise with money, it's bad to view the relatively small expense of keeping romance alive as a frightening waste of resources. I speak as someone who recently ended an otherwise good relationship because I was sick of being a low priority, the main reason being that my now-ex is as tight as a fishes a** and considered things like eating out or paying for a hotel room to be a frivolous and foolish waste of money. He'd also talk about his work with monotonous regularity and fail to notice that my eyes had glazed over with boredom. He's now very unhappy, but at least he gets to be stingy as he likes without being judged. You don't have to spend a fortune to make another person feel special to you. 

[TrailHand]

2 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

Do you follow a 3 account method--His, Hers, and Ours budgeting/spending system? If not, look into it. The 'Ours' account budgets all shared expenses, investments and savings. Each partner contributes to this fund monthly according to percentages of income, so the bigger earner pays the larger percentage. Once this account is satisfied each week or month, the remainder of earnings goes into the account of the earner. So you each will have your own discretionary income. This allows you each to spend or save that money without consulting the other.

So, if you learn that she has ideas about any dates that are more fancy and expensive, you can include them on the list, but then, use your budget session to negotiate exactly how to pay for it. This can mean you're both willing to pull back on some other expenses, or, she may be willing to spring for that date from her own account while you budget your own expenses for one of the other pricey ones later.

The fine art of appearing reasonable is often more important than actually being reasonable. Shared experiences and novelty mean more to some people than others. You don't care about them, but your wife does. So don't just nix her ideas out from under her with an attitude--that will harm your relationship. Instead, keep an open spirit of brainstorming. Pretend you're a school teacher who accepts all answers and writes them all on the board. Then negotiate. Offer something of value to her in exchange for something of value to you--they needn't have equal monetary value. In fact, the more generous you're willing to be up front, the more leverage you will earn toward trust, goodwill, and scheduling the cheap stuff later.

We do a 3 account method, but she likes to spend her funds on intangibles like going to the fair or seeing a movie with a kiddo or her mother. I contribute to the "ours" fund, all of our savings, and the "me" fund, which mostly goes to tools, parts, and dr peppers, but also gifts for holidays. I enjoy gift giving and am told I'm quite good at it, mainly because I buy gifts throughout the year for birthdays and Christmas so I'm not hit with the expense all at once. 

I do need to figure out what she has in mind though. I think several of "the list" you posted earlier would be right up her alley, though I don't really care for that kind of thing. I'm happy to finish work and watch a movie or relax my bones at the dinner table. 

The fine art of appearing "reasonable", haha. That's a good one. What's reasonable? Eat, work, have a little yacking time when the day is over, sleep, do it again the next day. That's reasonable to me. But I was missing the mark on this one so it's time to "appear reasonable" and just deal with it and see if that scratches her itch. 

I am slightly concerned that this will become a slippery slope though. 

 

[TrailHand]

11 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

 What if one of you becomes seriously ill and all that money you're saving for retirement turns out to be a waste of time? 

This is not an option. I have our assets protected and for myself, if I become seriously ill I will gladly bite the bullet and let her and the kids collect my life insurance money. If she becomes ill she will get as much treatment as we can afford without dipping into our assets, at which point I will collect her insurance money and use it to build more equity for our children to have a little cushion in life. Your ex sounds like a guy I could get along with really well, haha. 

I'm sure he thought the same thing I do, "We're a team! We need to rat-hole as much as possible because the world is going to be rough when I'm not working anymore and Social Security is bankrupt! I can't wait to work on this together and wind up on top when we retire!" But you left him over it so I guess he's saving for himself now and his team is broken. 

Edited September 28 by TrailHand
clarified life insurance, not medical insurance