Ghosted by friend of twenty years - struggling emotionally

[Insignificantdetails]

I've been platonic friends with a man I've known since I was 13 years old.  

As kids we were the best of friends. In our 20s we both moved to Italy and ended up holidaying together once a year, either with mutual friends or partners. 

In the last two years, visiting each other had fallen to me although he kept saying he'd come and visit (2 hour flight). Then the last time I saw him he'd separated from his partner, was seeing someone new and struggling with a family death. He also spent quite a lot of our time on the phone which I found rude and called out, which he didn't like.

After the last trip he contacted me a few times about quite innocent topics like sending me movie recommendations he thought I'd like and asking after my family. Then nothing. All replies stopped in January.

I had a feeling I was being ghosted but it wasn't until I saw online that he'd been in my city for 3 days and hadn't looked me up I knew he really was ghosting..

So I sent a message 5 days ago acknowledging the silence on his end and saying the door was open in the future to reconnect 

But I feel heartbroken. Cried my eyes out today like someone died. Keep blaming myself and wondering what I've done wrong. Had anyone been through similar?

 

[Leihla_B]

4 hours ago, Insignificantdetails said:

...the last time I saw him he'd separated from his partner, was seeing someone new and struggling with a family death. He also spent quite a lot of our time on the phone which I found rude and called out, which he didn't like.

My heart goes out to you. This sounds like a few things prior to your last visit had culminated in a perfect storm of stress for him. Add housing a guest. Add the guest calling him out for his phone time, and that may have tipped a scale for him. How did he react to that?

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After the last trip he contacted me a few times about quite innocent topics like sending me movie recommendations he thought I'd like and asking after my family. Then nothing. All replies stopped in January.

Sounds like he may have reached out in a few attempts to overcome whatever may have soured him during your visit. Had you also been contacting him during this time? How did the conversations go, did they flow normally? Was the 'calling him out' thing ever resolved?

Edited September 30 by Leihla_B

[Insignificantdetails]

5 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

My heart goes out to you. This sounds like a few things prior to your last visit had culminated in a perfect storm of stress for him. Add housing a guest. Add the guest calling him out for his phone time, and that may have tipped a scale for him. How did he react to that?

Sounds like he may have reached out in a few attempts to overcome whatever may have soured him during your visit. Had you also been contacting him during this time? How did the conversations go, did they flow normally? Was the 'calling him out' thing ever resolved?

Hi Leihla, thanks for your reply.

When I went to visit I stayed at his home in the first night and at a hotel the rest of the time.

In the moment he didn't react well to being called out on the phone thing but then he stopped doing it for the rest of the trip.

First, he contacted me. I replied, all as normal. Then he contacted again, I got the flu and was very sick with it, which lead to a delay in replying for two weeks. I apologised explaining my illness.

 But two weeks isn't unusual for us. And yes the conversation flowed normally.

He does seem to be disgruntled after my last visit. What has thrown me off is the fact he contacted me as normal after it.

And why not tell me he was upset or that certain things had bothered him? 

It hurts that a 20 year friendship isn't worth a conversation. If he was angry or upset with me I would have liked the chance to resolve things. 

Edited September 30 by Insignificantdetails

[Leihla_B]

7 hours ago, Insignificantdetails said:

When I went to visit I stayed at his home in the first night and at a hotel the rest of the time.

What prompted the move to a hotel, was that planned in advance?

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In the moment he didn't react well to being called out on the phone thing but then he stopped doing it for the rest of the trip.

What does not reacting well mean? What did he say and do? How did you respond? Was there an argument? Did this happen in private or in front of anyone?

Is this incident what resulted in the move to the hotel?

How long was your trip, and how much time did you spend together during your hotel stay? How much of that time was one-on-one, and how much involved other people?

Quote

First, he contacted me. I replied, all as normal. Then he contacted again, I got the flu and was very sick with it, which lead to a delay in replying for two weeks. I apologised explaining my illness.

 But two weeks isn't unusual for us. And yes the conversation flowed normally.

He does seem to be disgruntled after my last visit. What has thrown me off is the fact he contacted me as normal after it.

How long between your trip and his last contact in January?

Yeah, it sounds like the visit was the source of the problem, and he reached out afterward to see how well he could 'normalize' and whether he could go back to feeling comfortable with the friendship. While he may have found the two week delay in your response forgivable after your explanation, during that delay he may have been stewing with discomfort, interpreting it as punishment from you. He may have used that time to stoke flames that might have otherwise died down. 

So yes, he may have attempted 'usual' conversation, but apparently, that effort failed for him. 

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And why not tell me he was upset or that certain things had bothered him? 

It hurts that a 20 year friendship isn't worth a conversation. If he was angry or upset with me I would have liked the chance to resolve things. 

I understand, it hurts. He may have been reaching out since the trip to learn whether an apology from you would be forthcoming. He may view himself as an injured party. Whether that's legitimate or not, he viewed your visit through an amplified lens of grief and stress, which likely inflated his perception of the degree and the significance of the discord between you. A grieving person doesn't expect admonishment from someone who had been otherwise viewed as supportive. That probably struck him hard.

Would you consider writing him a heartfelt apology in a card, then use snail mail? Of course, this would not include any attempt to navigate your point of view--that's not an apology, it's negotiation, which is not a place to start if the goal is to open him back up to resuming communication.

It's not that your POV doesn't matter, it's just not a useful bridge to ever being able to discuss it later. The only expressions worth sending to an estranged person are how much they matter to you, what they mean to you, how much you love them, how much you miss them, and how sorry you are for what you did to upset them. That needs to be specific and contain an understanding of how you could have viewed things differently and handled it better. If you're up for an extra ooomph, send flowers.

Again, my heart goes out to you.

Edited September 30 by Leihla_B

[Insignificantdetails]

On 9/30/2024 at 4:40 PM, Leihla_B said:

What prompted the move to a hotel, was that planned in advance?

What does not reacting well mean? What did he say and do? How did you respond? Was there an argument? Did this happen in private or in front of anyone?

Is this incident what resulted in the move to the hotel?

How long was your trip, and how much time did you spend together during your hotel stay? How much of that time was one-on-one, and how much involved other people?

How long between your trip and his last contact in January?

Yeah, it sounds like the visit was the source of the problem, and he reached out afterward to see how well he could 'normalize' and whether he could go back to feeling comfortable with the friendship. While he may have found the two week delay in your response forgivable after your explanation, during that delay he may have been stewing with discomfort, interpreting it as punishment from you. He may have used that time to stoke flames that might have otherwise died down. 

So yes, he may have attempted 'usual' conversation, but apparently, that effort failed for him. 

I understand, it hurts. He may have been reaching out since the trip to learn whether an apology from you would be forthcoming. He may view himself as an injured party. Whether that's legitimate or not, he viewed your visit through an amplified lens of grief and stress, which likely inflated his perception of the degree and the significance of the discord between you. A grieving person doesn't expect admonishment from someone who had been otherwise viewed as supportive. That probably struck him hard.

Would you consider writing him a heartfelt apology in a card, then use snail mail? Of course, this would not include any attempt to navigate your point of view--that's not an apology, it's negotiation, which is not a place to start if the goal is to open him back up to resuming communication.

It's not that your POV doesn't matter, it's just not a useful bridge to ever being able to discuss it later. The only expressions worth sending to an estranged person are how much they matter to you, what they mean to you, how much you love them, how much you miss them, and how sorry you are for what you did to upset them. That needs to be specific and contain an understanding of how you could have viewed things differently and handled it better. If you're up for an extra ooomph, send flowers.

Again, my heart goes out to you.

Hello, I know it has been a few weeks but I wanted to say that because of your reply I reached out to my friend.

I decided to apologise in case I hurt him. He then replied saying that I didn't hurt him and he had had a mental breakdown, had been monitored by psychologists etc. So then I felt terrible as he said my assumption I ghosted him upset him further. 

We caught up a bit but his messages were a bit strange and disordered. I could see shades of my friend in them but not really him at the same time.

To be honest it hurt to reply telling him my beloved pet had died and he ignored this again for two weeks now. The 'old' him would have at least said he was sorry or sympathised.

In the end I think the friendship might have had its day in the sun - and at least we had 20 years. He might get better and then the friendship might go back to normal but I am not sure this is likely.

I feel sad but think I need to focus more on other friends now and keep the door open.

Edited October 21 by Insignificantdetails

[spiritedaway2003]

2 hours ago, Insignificantdetails said:

Hello, I know it has been a few weeks but I wanted to say that because of your reply I reached out to my friend.

I decided to apologise in case I hurt him. He then replied saying that I didn't hurt him and he had had a mental breakdown, had been monitored by psychologists etc. So then I felt terrible as he said my assumption I ghosted him upset him further. 

We caught up a bit but his messages were a bit strange and disordered. I could see shades of my friend in them but not really him at the same time.

To be honest it hurt to reply telling him my beloved pet had died and he ignored this again for two weeks now. The 'old' him would have at least said he was sorry or sympathised.

In the end I think the friendship might have had its day in the sun - and at least we had 20 years. He might get better and then the friendship might go back to normal but I am not sure this is likely.

I feel sad but think I need to focus more on other friends now and keep the door open.

I know this isn't what you want to hear since you're feeling down, but you come across as very self-absorbed in relations to your friend.  If he is in fact dealing with a mental breakdown, was dealing with a separation with his partner, and exerting time to build a new relationship with someone new, and struggling with a family death, that's a lot for ANYONE to deal with.  Just the first issue alone is a lot to deal with.  Friendships ebb and flow and sometimes they come to a natural end.   Yes, you beloved pet had died, but he is also in crisis mode. Give people a wide berth.  If he couldn't reach out to you because he needs friends who can be more supportive of him in his current state, it's actually good thing for him.  

A good friend would simply wish his recovery well and see how you can help, not to add on additional concerns when they are in need of support. 

If the friendship goes back to "normal" great, but if it doesn't, then move on.  Obviously, he's been friends with you for 20+ years so there's a friendship there, but it sounds like he need some "him" time to take care of the things he needs to do, just as you should.  Be glad that you've been friends for so long, and just let things flow where they may. 

[Insignificantdetails]

@spiritedaway2003 when he was struggling last year I travelled to another country just to check on him. Is that being self absorbed?

We always talked about our pets. He was sending photos of his and I told him what happened to mine and that she had died.

For the record, I did wish him well and demanded nothing of him. He knows he has my full support. 

If i'm being honest I have this sense that even without the crisis, he isn't bothered about the friendship anymore. I could be wrong and I hope I am - but it's a feeling I have. Like you say I just need to step away for now as I can't force anything.

[lemonicetea]

I totally know how you feel since I had a friend who ghosted me. We weren’t friends as long as you were, but still. It’s sad but it sounds like he had a mental breakdown. Maybe give him some time and reach out again. If he doesn’t go for it, let it go. You will always have your memories. 

[Leihla_B]

18 hours ago, Insignificantdetails said:

I feel sad but think I need to focus more on other friends now and keep the door open.

It's natural to feel sad about a friend going through a breakdown. He's not recovered yet, so some sadness about that is natural, too. However, you were able to resolve some of the questions you held about his silence and whether or not he was angry with you and deliberately cutting you off. At least you know now that you didn't cause a rift, and you can move forward without carrying the heartache that comes along with the unknown.

My heart goes out to you, and I hope your other friends can offer you some comfort for the loss of your beloved dog. The degree of pain from a pet loss can be quite a shock, and I'm sorry that this friend isn't in the headspace to have offered you a reasonable acknowledgment of that. It sounds as though this is an emotionally charged time for both of you.

[mortensorchid]

I'm sorry, I have been there as well with people.  Some have treated me very badly with direct hits, others just drift over time.  Whatever the case may be, think of it this way (and it took me a long time to reach these conclusions about people, and this may sound harsh, but it's important to recognize this):

People don't really care about maintaining long term relationships anymore, be it in a romantic, family, sibling, working, or even friendship anymore.  This is cancel culture in action : Once there is nothing in it for the other person, they are done with you/others around them.  You must also accept the fact that there is a shelf life to anything and everything - you simply weren't meant to be friends after a certain point.  You have nothing in common with them anymore, and the same with them.  Are you the same person now that you were in 10th grade, let alone kindergarten?  Probably not.  Neither are they.  There are some exceptions - I had one friend who I had in my early/mid 20s who moved away for 11 years, then he moved back and I looked him up.  We had both changed, but in my case we had both changed for the better.  We are better friends today, but that's a very odd situation.

I still hurt from some of the fallouts I had with others in the past, but I moved on.  And guess what?  Things change, life goes on for you, me and everyone else.  Someday it will just be a distant memory, I promise you. 

[Leihla_B]

On 10/22/2024 at 5:26 PM, mortensorchid said:

Are you the same person now that you were in 10th grade, let alone kindergarten?  Probably not.  Neither are they. 

You make a great case for the natural divergences in friendships we all suffer throughout a lifetime. I also view them, in many cases, as cyclical. You give a great example here:

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There are some exceptions - I had one friend who I had in my early/mid 20s who moved away for 11 years, then he moved back and I looked him up.  We had both changed, but in my case we had both changed for the better.  We are better friends today, but that's a very odd situation.

That's wonderful! I don't view it as odd at all; maybe just a matter of living long enough. Quite a few of my relationships have come back around over t.i.m.e. As you say, along with the growth and changes that enhance the conditions for a better friendship the second time.

We can't stay parallel with everyone. Stuff happens. Whether my friends landed knee deep in diapers while I was living as a single, or whether our interests changed, or whether they took a nosedive into some deep troubles or ascended beyond my reach with moves, new jobs or whatever, the heart connection wasn't entirely lost over the years.

I raise this to encourage OP not to place too heavy a bookend on this perceived 'ending,' as we don't know what we don't know about another's experience at any given time. Divergences are a part of life, but part of my own growth has been to avoid cynicism about it. An open mind can pay off.

[Lotsgoingon]

Just a guess. But as someone who has suffered from depression before, this guy sounds like he could be depressed.

And when I was depressed, I didn't want to see all kinds of people. Didn't have the energy to see them, even if I liked them. 

What I have learned is that if and when I get depressed, I need to tell my friends. Tell them. And I've done this when I've recently gone through hard times. To my surprise (or not) my friends are all wonderfully kind when I say "I am not doing well. I'm not up for going out." Then something odd happens: I CAN talk to them about how bad I feel and my steps to feel better. 

My guess is your buddy and you haven't had conversations about depression and going through really hard times. I also imagine that your buddy has learned that he can tell people he's not feeling well, and friends won't abandon him. 

I mean, you mention that he separated from someone and had a death he was struggling with. Well a death that someone is struggling with---to me that's close to depression. Because of course we struggle with the death of someone close to us. So to say he's "struggling" to me suggests that he is having an especially hard time. The line between grief and depression is quite fine and hard to determine. And the line between passing grief-depression and feeling like you are in a deep hole that is not passing---that's another fine line or maybe no line at all. 

My guess: his distance has NOTHING to do with you other than that he hasn’t learned to tell people what the heck is really going on. FYI: depression often causes shame. So depressed people can have depression AND shame about the depression. And yes, friendships do change over time.