Is my wife in affair fog?

[Sbd]

Apologies as this is a long one… 

My wife and I are in our early 30s, we’ve been together 8 years, married 5. We have two beautiful children (5 and 3). When I met my wife 8 years ago I dropped every other thought of another woman so I could focus on pursuing her. I’d met a lot of women and I wasn’t going to settle and I knew she was different. She was level-headed, smart, pure, driven, and beautiful. I made quite the fool out of myself in the early days but I’d work double time to rise out of the muck. She eventually agreed to be official and I’d never been so happy until the day we had our first child and later she agreed to be married. Last two happiest days of my life was having our second child and buying a home. 

I was madly in love with my wife, and she at one point definitely loved me but she was never madly in love. That’s all to say, I knew that I was marrying up and she married down. I knew this, I knew she grew up in a different world than me (I  was broken from a fairly traumatic childhood and she was raised in as close to an idyllic home as can be imagined). I knew I had to treat her different. She would shut down if I raised my voice even a little, and her defenses would go up if one cuss word was said. Anything after whether right or wrong was not heard. She felt attacked even when I was just trying to reason. She didn’t know how to deal with conflict and I wouldn’t have survived my childhood if I didn’t thrive in conflict, let it out and forgive. I knew that I had to watch the way I acted and was never under an illusion she could or would never leave me. 

I was imperfect, I am not as patient as my wife, I’m faster to anger. I’m an Acts of Service man and she can’t thrive unless around lots of friends and family. I was never a controlling person in a jealous way but my actions came off as controlling. A lot of the usual points of contention in a marriage. She would want to spend to much money and that would upset me because I’d try so hard to save and be frugal and one purchase later it would all be for not. I had big dreams of a home on property away from the city shenanigans. I felt she was careless with money because she always had someone to bail her out, and I was always afraid of the negative ramifications of making the wrong decision because nobody would bail me out. 

Through a lot of work from both her and I we  bought the perfect property in a rural community and things were looking up. This was two years ago. She got a wonderful job just minutes from home and firmly planted herself in the community and loves it. I was able to expand my business and also was more flexible in my work to care for our kids. 

She always wanted to leave on the weekends to go see friends and family and it would be either frustrating or hurtful because I worked my butt off at home and planned time to take care of chores and our property but she didn’t prioritize the same things. It was hurtful because I was her family and she never tried to go out of her way to spend time with me. 

I am a much more organized person than my wife and like a cleaner home. I would get frustrated to come home to a home that was mess, with a bunch of new things she bought. I didn’t realize until recently that my love language impacted my feelings in a great way. I took her behavior as a stroke to my heart when the reality is, her inaction or actions weren’t because she didn’t love me but because she had other priorities. I should have been more understanding and supportive. 

Lastly, a major point of tension was she wanted to remarry in the Catholic Church but I  am not Catholic and for a long time felt like I’d be a phony to do so. I never stopped her from practicing her religion. I was very respectful of her and she was allowed to take the kids. I never pushed my views on her or the kids. In fact she was the one pressuring me over the years, and in the past few months it became an ever apparent conversation. For a long time I was adamantly opposed but I started to do research and was almost there and she’d pressure me more. You know how people act under pressure. 

I had the aforementioned minor “complaints” with my wife that I knew were petty all along. In my heart I loved my wife to the core and was loyal to her. I told everyone I knew how wonderful she is and anyone that would listen and that was single I’d tell them not to settle until they found someone like my wife. I wasn’t telling my wife these things enough. Sure there was the specific points but her biggest issue with me in total is that I wasn’t emotionally there for her.  I expect a lot from myself and other people. I didn’t say enough how proud I was of her. I was hurting because I wasn’t seeing the acts of service from her like I wished and asked for, and she was hurting in return because my emotional unavailability. When two people are hurting nothing gets fixed. I came off as callous and unloving. Couple that with how she shuts down in conflict we really weren’t solving anything fast. But to me I made progress and she admitted I had but it was slow. My friends say I’ve made tremendous progress over the years. 

I come from the mindset that marriage is work. In fact over summer things were looking up. Our sex life (mostly through her actions actually) was improving and was better than the last year prior. Our sex life was never bad though, slower at times but always above average. I was starting to realize many of the things I mentioned, that her priorities are simply different and it’s not that she doesn’t love me and that it was all a vicious circle. I immediately started to feel less pain and hurt just knowing this. I’d come to the conclusion our troubles were mostly my fault because I wasn’t treating her the way she deserved. She felt unappreciated and didn’t want to reciprocate and vice versa. I was waiting for a neutral time to have a talk with her. 

This was mid-August. I was ready to sit down and let things go, ask her how we are going to get back to us and figure out how I could be the supportive man she needs me to be.

Everything collided at the same time. That’s when she started acting different. I even asked her why she seems like a different person. She put up a wall, she didn’t have my back. She was drifting. 

I saw this and it hurt because I knew it was real, unlike before. I tried to throw a white flag by sending a friendly text like we used too, it didn’t work.  She acted out, I could see it and I acted out in return and said a hurtful comment (I said I was glad I didn’t get married in the Catholic Church). I realized it was the wrong thing to say and quickly tried to smooth things over. She shot me down, so I tried again to connect by holding her hand and talking with her on a long drive. I thought we were good. I tried to be close to her and she blasted me with more pressure about the church and I didn’t know what was happening so I said another hurtful comment. 

These things happen I knew, this is marriage. I had no clue my world was crashing down. 

Days went by (I was gone at work), I came home and could see things weren’t okay. I can’t let things fester (she was always better at just ignoring the pain and conflict) so it was me who had to initiate. I thought I was hurt, she didn’t have my back, she was different. I told her these things. She basically said nothing except that it’s probably true why I’m feeling that way because she feels nothing for me anymore. She said that a waved washed over her because my latest transgressions and that it was like a sign that we shouldn’t be together. 

I knew this was serious, this was the first time she said anything remotely close to this and I immediately threw my concerns to the side. I didn’t understand, she said it shouldn’t really come as a surprise because it’s been building for about two years. And she had already tried so hard to make me change but I hadn’t. I disagreed (still kind of do), she was never one to communicate these things well and any comment even somewhat similar I kind of brushed off as her trying to just make me feel bad (she once said in the heat of argument that “you make me want to leave and never come back.”) I didn’t know how to respond to these off the cuff comments during an argument. She never sat me down at a neutral time and leveled with me because I would have listened and responded the same as I was then and now. 

I was in shock. I never thought I could or would be so crushed and for two nights I begged and pleaded. I didn’t reason or explain like I used to. I knew excuses were exactly that and I owned up to all my shortcomings and told her how I was going to fix it. It was to late. 

The “I feel nothing” turned to “I’m done”. I thought over night her mind would change but it didn’t. I was a wreck, she had never seen this side of me. I’d never seen this side of me. Everything I did she said was not genuine. I understood how that could appear so I started to realize this process of reconnecting with my wife might take months or even years. She admitted that the first couple days of me breaking down and crying was not what she expected. She thought I’d get angry, I wasn’t though. I love my wife dearly and I was in a deep state of remorse for ruining our family. Honestly she was hopeful I would get angry and just let her go. 

I started doing research and everything said that I should stop begging and pleading and just start acting. It was hurting me so bad anyways to break down in front of her and it all lead to rejection. She’d occasionally cry too, but for the most part say nothing substantial and sometimes when I was really broken she’d try to hold my hand or consul me. I told her I didn’t want pity. I knew that’s all it was after the first two nights. I knew that at first she saw my weakness as a good side of me she never knew, but than the weakness was only and exactly that, weakness. So my new reality was I’d have to buckle up and it could be a long ride to prove change and I was going to do anything to bring the family back together. 

When I was home from work I was sleeping in the same bed as her during the first couple weeks. I was smothering her trying to be my affectionate cuddly self. I realized that had to end. I asked her what “time and space” meant, she didn’t know. I asked her if I could treat her like my wife and how come it seemed ingenuine when many of the things I was doing was the same as before. She didn’t know what she wanted but I started to see that she was just trying to spare me. I knew she didn’t want any affection - she wanted out.

The “I’m done” turned to separation talks. Then it was “I’m not in love with you anymore.” I kept pleading that I would never want to be in a loveless marriage but we owe it to the children to at least do everything we can to see if we can find true love between us again. She didn’t care. I would break from giving her space and time to see if we could connect. I told her she could have more autonomy to be her and we can still be together. She was confused and didn’t know. She kept saying that at least. 

Her mom arrived to stay for a while. Over the years her mom got to hear all the bad things about me and never the other side, so her mom wasn’t my biggest fan and in the past even would tell my wife “why are you with him!” I had a talk with my mother-in-law and she was devastated what was happening, she wanted to know how we’d bring her back how we’d fix it. She didn’t understand what happened to her daughter. We felt helpless. It appeared she was on my side for the sake of our family. 

Meanwhile I’m telling my friends everything. And they are very supportive and also love my wife and don’t want to see it end. 

About one month in. I’m not in love with you turned to “I don’t know if I’ve ever been in love with you.” I told her that’s bologna, I know that’s not true. She used to make excuses for me to her friends and family on why she was with me and now she couldn’t make an excuse to be with me. I asked why she ever loved me. She only had generic answers and did recognize that I’m the hardest worker she knows and that she loves the way I am with the kids. I know that’s a loaded questions but her face said it all. She couldn’t really see why she ever loved me. 

But that comment and a couple others started to make me think. My friends who knew her and knew all my shortcomings kept telling me that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. They also reasoned that she knew who I was when she married me, she knew I was at times difficult, she knew I was hard on people to always be better (not a line of thought I tried to pursue with her). I agreed in a sense, that sometimes my stubbornness is also my positive traits. I have passion, and my wife couldn’t take that away from me. She had rewritten history, forgotten all the good I’ve done for our family. 

This was all very difficult and happened so quick because I was gone most the month working. I was physically and emotionally isolated and when I came home I kept thinking she would be back to herself and she wasn’t. It was killing me. We started sleeping in different rooms after prying from her what space and time meant. I asked her not to spare me, just tell me the truth. She couldn’t. I tried to just do the right thing. 

Then I found the completed divorce papers in the printer. I confronted her. I didn’t know we were that far along, I couldn’t understand how she was going to file for divorce and asked her what divorce looked like. She said she hadn’t thought about it much and that she didn’t think it was fair to not get a divorce since she no longer loves me. She made it clear that divorce was the only option. I told her to please hold off on divorce as it is the busiest time of year for work for me. I kind of had her convinced to simmer down. I reasoned that we should talk about what life is like after divorce first just to have an idea. I told her that since I wasn’t a loving and supportive husband for so many years that if she did want a divorce that I’d do whatever she wanted because I love and support her. 

Meanwhile in front of friends and family she appears to be having no problems keeping it together. I’m a wreck trying to act and she went about day-to-day life without hiccup. 

So my sobbing got put on pause so we could hash out divorce. We (mostly me) had brainstormed a plan that it would be unreasonable to refinance the house right now with interest rates so we’d both still own it and she could stay in the house and I would either live in a trailer or build a second unit to live in while the kids are young. My only plea was I didn’t want to appear to the kids like I was abandoning them and wanted to live on the property while they were in the formative years. I wanted it to be a slow process. I would ask her if that was a good plan and she’d kind of nod and agree. 

I would spend the next few years improving myself in hopes to get my wife back. 

I knew after her comment when she said that she’d never loved me that there was something outside of my shortcomings that was fueling this. 

I leave for work and come home. She says she was thinking of filing divorce the following day. I ask about what happened to doing more planning and couldn’t it wait out of respect. It’s clearly burning a hole in her and I point that out, we’d been married 5 years and she couldn’t wait a couple weeks to file?

I beg again that her and I could still be together while she finds herself, she could have her freedom and we could be greater than ever. She said something to the effect of “does that mean we could see other people.” I was confused because that’s not what I was talking about, she was wanting financial freedom, and freedom to be herself?! It was from left field as she was the last person on earth I thought was seeking other men. I asked her for the second time “are you talking to someone.” She said there isn’t anyone. 

I talk with my friends. I read online. Everything online says there is a 99.5% chance she is in an affair, all my friends that know her say that there is no way. I married this woman because she is the most trustworthy person I’d ever met. You’ve heard it all before I’m sure but she truly is one of a kind. 

I ignore the signs because I’m not a jealous person. This is my precious wife who claimed that I was dividing her and God by not getting married in the Catholic Church. 

There I was, on the family iPad with my daughter and I saw a picture I didn’t want to see. I knew what it was, but I ignored it for the night. The next morning I looked in the hidden photos on the iPad and there was all the evidence I needed. A picture of another man. I could and did think about going on her Facebook where I knew the details would be clear but I chose to not go down that path for fear. I confronted her.

I told her that I’ve been living for a month in complete devastation that I was ripping apart our family. I was going to do anything and everything it takes to fix us and she let me anguish the entire time leaving no hope just desperation. She claimed she wanted to be closer to God, that she gave me enough chances already , that I had given her the signs she needed. I contended that she wanted to see the signs, she was already seeing another man and she was acting out so of course I gave her the “signs.” She used my signs as an excuse to all her friends and family why she was done, she hid this from everybody, never mentioned she was in an emotional affair. When the reality is, it was all hypocrisy. She admitted the fling, and proceeded to do exactly what I knew and feared she would. She acted as if it was no big deal because she started the affair after she knew she wanted divorce. She backtracked on when the signs were because I had cold hard dates on when they were talking. Not that any of it was acceptable. I asked for details she gave none and said she didn’t have to tell me. I already knew they were talking before our last argument, she held her ground that it was her being done first then the affair not vice versa. I told her that’s not true, these things happen in the other way.  That she is underestimating the connection she has with this other man and it’s impacting her ability to connect with me. You can’t have two emotional romantic relationships at once. She told me she was already emotionally disconnected  weeks ago and that it felt nice to be wanted, so how was it really a surprise? She made excuses that I was so terrible to her. She said sorry but I’ve never seen a more sorry sorry in my life.  

I knew she wasn’t going to go on her hands and knees to beg forgiveness. I told her that I don’t know if I can forgive her but I owe it to our children to see if I can forgive and if she doesn’t come to her senses soon and seek forgiveness in a substantial way like I was prepared to do than divorce was the only outcome. She essentially just said that she wanted a divorce anyway before this, she doesn’t think I’d forgive her, and that she doesn’t know if it’s even worth trying to seek forgiveness because of those facts. 

I had a lot to say to her as you can imagine but I was relatively level headed and never yelled. Definitely cried. I told her this man may never come around our children and that it was a dead end you can’t trust a man that would date a married woman and you can’t trust a woman that would date when they are married. The worst part is the hypocrisy with her Catholic faith. How could it be justified. She couldn’t tell. She said she prays for forgiveness but continues on. It’s eating me alive. 

I actually am a forgiving person. If you can’t tell, I love my wife. In a way I’m more cognizant of what’s happening to her than she is, she is in the honeymoon phase of a new relationship and the only problem is me her husband is getting in the way. 

I asked her the next morning if she was going to end things with the man. She didn’t answer. 

Now all sorts of things make sense. 

The urgency for divorce, she wanted to rip it off like a bandaid so she could pursue this fling guilt free. Nobody knew but her and him, it would have been legitimate  if it were outside of marriage. I’m disgusted that she’d let me live in anguish that I was the sole reason the relationship failed. 

She had no emotional capacity for me, you just can’t when infatuation with another  takes control. She wants to see the relationship play out, it’s a shiny new toy. No logic or reason will work. I know this and I’m scared for our children and her future. She is a prominent important person in our very tiny community. There is so many things at play, and she thinks divorce is going to be all great. 

I did have to tell her that we are throwing out all previous divorce brainstorming and that I’m not leaving my house or my kids.

It almost appears she is so caught up that she doesn’t care about much and would agree to about any reasonable divorce terms. The fact is, she makes more money, I said she is going to still have to pay most the mortgage and I was going to have the house and my kids and she could go live wherever the hell she wanted and move in with the other man. She said she would never do that (live with him), apparently she has some wits about her. If you looked at her you’d think she was a perfectly sane person, her casual attitude almost makes me feel like I’m over reacting. Gaslighting to the extreme. If you didn’t know better you’d think everything was normal in our life by watching her. 

So I did my research on the topic but some things are still unclear. 

1) Does this sound like affair fog? Keep in mind I wasn’t the best of husbands (I’d never do something like this of course). I still am blaming myself for her actions and I hate it. If I would have been more loving I wouldn’t have driven her to this point. Maybe it’s not a fog, maybe she did want a divorce first and then the affair came after? Like she says. 

2) I doubt she will come to her senses anytime soon to be repentant. At first I told myself I will accept nothing less than extreme guilt and sorrow it could take years for full forgiveness. She admits she doesn’t know if it’s worth it right now to even worry about as she wanted a divorce anyways. My worry is that much of her friends and family already wanted us to be apart. Don’t be mistaken, everyone is completely devastated and shocked by her actions and hopefully that makes them realize there are two sides to a relationship. The reality is, some people will be encouraging for her to divorce me even though she has done the unthinkable. I have not read much addressing this issue so am curious to hear thoughts on if the marriage is doomed anyways, regardless of the affair. 

3) I hear /read a lot of talk about the 180. I know there is a list but it also implies  do what your spouse wouldn’t have expected. As mentioned - the first two days after the “I feel nothing stage” I broke down, it surprised her in some way. It surprised me, I’ve never done that. I’m a hardened person. I should have shown my soft side more often. Simply put though, I love my wife and she needed to know so I acted out of impulse. But as the crying and love talk continued it got frustrating for her. But having done that was actually a 180 from what she expected, at first. I pride myself in being a person of my word. I used to think if I got cheated on I’d walk out to never be seen again. If I didn’t have kids I would but it’s oh so complicated. The definitive things I told her is A) if she doesn’t end things with him swiftly we are done. B) provided she does A, she’ll need to seek forgiveness with an absolute passion. C) if it ends in divorce I’m looking out for myself and the kids. I fear I underestimated how much I want to make it work when I said that but I know it can’t with the other man in the picture. My worry is that me being to steadfast in my word is not a 180, it’s actually just the same old me. You see, I wasn’t supportive, loving and there for her enough in our relationship. I could definitely see how doing the 180 list in its entirety could help for many but I feel as though this is more delicate.  The 180 is exactly the things my wife would expect me to do, she thought I was just going to let her go easy (also wanted it to be easy in hindsight). For example, some would say get a life. Me doing too much and not being present emotionally was a problem in our marriage so how is me developing more projects and hobbies going to help? I know she is experiencing guilt like never before, and me cutting off most contact, being completely apathetic, and some of the other points on the 180 will drive her to the other man (the only other person in her life right now that doesn’t care she has made a massive mistake). She’s clearly indicated that’s what she wants is to be left alone and be free to do whatever she desires. I’m probably not the first to think there situation is unique, but my heart is telling me that I should give her more time, I’m weirdly understanding regarding the fact I know she can’t just stop feeling for this other man just as she can’t start having feelings for me again. I’ve also read about others who said if their partner wouldn’t have been firm and stuck with them through the rollercoaster they would have inevitably gone the opposite direction.  Should I be steadfast on my promise to divorce if she sticks with him for much longer (I didn’t set a time)? Or should I in a round-about way show her I’m there for her while staying at arms distance? I’m away for work so she has all the space in the world, I was thinking when I got home I’d soften up and basically tell her that yes she has broken me, no I haven’t forgiven but she is my wife, the mother of my children and although I can’t support her actions and can hardly look at her, but that I am there for her in many ways and if this is to proceed to divorce I still want to ensure it’s as amicable as possible. Thoughts please? How do I avoid the pick me game while also showing I have her best interests at heart? Or just stick to the 180 fully? File for divorce as soon as I can? Avoid all serious talk and try to go about my business as usual? Some say that divorce papers shocked their spouse but she was already wanting to file and had paperwork ready. 

4) A couple other points. I know I can live without my wife. Yes this is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me but I’ll survive, time heals, I know all that. I also know that our relationship wasn’t really that dysfunctional and if we both worked our butts off that would be the best thing for our kids for us to be together and in love. Am I delusional? 

5) Concerning her moving out. She is a wonderful mother typically. It has been weird through this turmoil she has been somewhat removed from the children and on her phone a lot or watching TV. Again, I’m gone a lot this time of year so when I’m home I’ve just been trying to be with the kids. Regardless she is still a good mother and the kids need her. There are also financial constraints to her moving out. Predictable me of the past might have been like you made your bed so sleep in it and get out, but compassionate me is thinking how shocking that would be for the kids, how much of a financial burden, and how that may come off as very cruel to her and just allow her behavior to continue because now I’m the mean husband who kicked her out. She is the one looking for rentals actually, she clearly wants space to do her thing. Should I be harsh and tell her she needs to leave as soon as reasonable and expedite the process? Or try to develop an agreement for her to stay during these times for the kids, with a clear understanding of boundaries? I made it evident and she understood perfectly when I told her no man of hers will ever be in our home ever. I also elaborated that the current man may never be around our children and that any future men must have my approval before being near the children. Her eyes told me she understood. 

This is what I want to tell her when I see her next:

I want to ascertain if the other man is cut off. Shouldn’t be difficult she is terrible at lying. I want to recite her my wedding vows exactly as on the day of our wedding. I’ll remind her that her actions are far reaching, that for us to reconcile will require immense work and remorse on her part and even then it’s not guaranteed. I’ll explain that I know I’ve not always been loving and supportive and my transgressions aren’t canceled out by hers. And hers canceled out by mine. We both need work. I wasn’t the rock she needed me to be but I’m going to be a rock. For all our family going forward. That means I must be unwavering and protect myself and our kids, but I can’t control her but let her know I only want the best for her. I see this as a test. One of temptation and commitment for her and of patience for me. I intend on passing the test, but she is lighting it on fire and burning the classroom to the ground. I’ll repeat that if this other man isn’t gone soon that she or I might as well file the divorce paperwork because that’s a non-starter for forgiveness. I will tell her that while she may not respect me we must show respect for one-another for our children. I’ll tell her we don’t have to treat each other poorly going forward and we don’t have to act like enemies. I want an amicable divorce and we can work together still, if that’s what it comes to. 

To sum it up:

I had the most amazing wife. Very respectable woman, god fearing, modest, loving, ticked all the boxes. I got complacent in the relationship, so did she. We both had hurt at times. Communication sucked. She was my everything and I didn’t tell her enough. She is justifying her emotional affair (they went on a couple dates) because I wasn’t emotionally available and supportive. She is rewriting history. She is not seeking forgiveness or reconciliation and still wants divorce. I don’t know if I can forgive but am willing to try for the kids. I’m concerned she isn’t thinking clearly because the new man is present and she admitted to not wanting to end things with him and I know if we as a team can work our stuff out that divorce isn’t the answer. I am not willing to sit around forever but I’m wondering if I should back track and give her some time to come out of this in an effort to show her that I really have loved and supported her all this time. As I agreed to in my vows. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Sbd said:

This is what I want to tell her when I see her next:

I want to ascertain if the other man is cut off. Shouldn’t be difficult she is terrible at lying. I want to recite her my wedding vows exactly as on the day of our wedding. I’ll remind her that her actions are far reaching, that for us to reconcile will require immense work and remorse on her part and even then it’s not guaranteed. I’ll explain that I know I’ve not always been loving and supportive and my transgressions aren’t canceled out by hers. And hers canceled out by mine. We both need work. I wasn’t the rock she needed me to be but I’m going to be a rock. For all our family going forward. That means I must be unwavering and protect myself and our kids, but I can’t control her but let her know I only want the best for her. I see this as a test. One of temptation and commitment for her and of patience for me. I intend on passing the test, but she is lighting it on fire and burning the classroom to the ground. I’ll repeat that if this other man isn’t gone soon that she or I might as well file the divorce paperwork because that’s a non-starter for forgiveness. I will tell her that while she may not respect me we must show respect for one-another for our children. I’ll tell her we don’t have to treat each other poorly going forward and we don’t have to act like enemies. I want an amicable divorce and we can work together still, if that’s what it comes to. 

I'm sorry to hear you're in this situation.   But if you go through with this, you will only underscore that you're not hearing her.  It's not a test.  She doesn't want forgiveness or a fresh start or to recommit ....she wants divorce.    You need to see a lawyer and work together so that you can be amicable co-parents.

[Gebidozo]

I’m sorry this is happening to you.

You are not going to like this, but I think you aren’t seeing things clearly.

You shouldn’t have married a woman that wasn’t in love with you. In your words, you were “madly” in love, while she wasn’t. No matter how you put it, it wasn’t a union of people equally and mutually attracted to each other. It was more a case of you winning a coveted trophy. This never works.

She isn’t seeking your forgiveness, she’s made up her mind. She wants a divorce. The only thing you can do now is navigate the divorce as painlessly and in as friendly a fashion as you can. There is no way to get her love back. There never was, because there was never enough love on her side.

And, lastly:

 

4 hours ago, Sbd said:

I had the most amazing wife. Very respectable woman, god fearing, modest, loving, ticked all the boxes. I got complacent in the relationship, so did she. We both had hurt at times.

No. This is just an image of her that you have built in your head. Like a dogma of faith that you forced yourself to believe in. God-fearing women do not have affairs, it’s a contradiction. Respectable women don’t have affairs. Modest and loving wives don’t have affairs.

She was not the most amazing wife. Not by a long shot. She is doing the right thing now, by getting out of a loveless marriage and setting you free to pursue real love. One day you’ll meet a woman who loves you and won’t cheat on you.

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, Sbd said:

She is not seeking forgiveness or reconciliation and still wants divorce.

Unfortunately, reconciliation is not an option because she has made her decision. One person alone can’t reconcile a marriage. 

[Leihla_B]

13 hours ago, Sbd said:

1) Does this sound like affair fog? ...Maybe it’s not a fog, maybe she did want a divorce first and then the affair came after? Like she says. 

It sounds as though she'd been unhappy regardless of whatever you've said or done over the years. The affair likely confirmed that for her and has prompted her actions.

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2) I doubt she will come to her senses anytime soon to be repentant.

That's not on her radar and is not likely to ever be a goal for her.

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3) I hear /read a lot of talk about the 180.

No need to pretzel yourself. It won't impact her. You're operating on emotions rather than real information, which you owe to yourself and your children to obtain from an attorney who will help you to operate in your best interests and theirs.

This doesn't mean filing for divorce. She's the one who wants it, so let her do the heavy lifting on that. But learn your legal rights and options along with the best steps to take for each option. From there you can make informed decisions rather than emotional ones that may have no legal basis or advantages to you.

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4) A couple other points. I know I can live without my wife. Yes this is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me but I’ll survive, time heals, I know all that. I also know that our relationship wasn’t really that dysfunctional and if we both worked our butts off that would be the best thing for our kids for us to be together and in love. Am I delusional? 

Unfortunately, you're not positioned to decide this. It always needs to come from the one who wants to end the marriage. That decision won't be influenced by you, it can only come organically from within her, but she's not willing to consider it right now. 

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5) Concerning her moving out. [...] She is the one looking for rentals actually, she clearly wants space to do her thing. Should I be harsh and tell her she needs to leave as soon as reasonable and expedite the process? 

This is best advised by an attorney.

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I want to ascertain if the other man is cut off.

He is not and he won't be.

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I want to recite her my wedding vows exactly as on the day of our wedding. I’ll remind her that her actions are far reaching, that for us to reconcile will require immense work and remorse on her part and even then it’s not guaranteed.

She doesn't want to reconcile.

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I’ll repeat that if this other man isn’t gone soon that she or I might as well file the divorce paperwork because that’s a non-starter for forgiveness.

She's not seeking forgiveness, and I wouldn't say any of this without first consulting an attorney.

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I will tell her that while she may not respect me we must show respect for one-another for our children. I’ll tell her we don’t have to treat each other poorly going forward and we don’t have to act like enemies. I want an amicable divorce and we can work together still, if that’s what it comes to. 

Agreeing on respectful treatment is a way to keep your head and your behaviors in check, so that's smart. While I understand you're busy at work, you need to fit in a legal consult before attempting any tactics or deciding any strategies. Ask a friend for a referral and make this your priority. You will thank yourself.

[mark clemson]

"The 180" is a bit of applied cognitive behavioral therapy designed to help you move on. However, I don't think you're ready to move on yet.

13 hours ago, Sbd said:

I know if we as a team can work our stuff out that divorce isn’t the answer. I am not willing to sit around forever but I’m wondering if I should back track and give her some time to come out of this in an effort to show her that I really have loved and supported her all this time. As I agreed to in my vows.

So, don't "give her" time - give YOU time. Time to process the VERY major changes you're going to go through as you divorce. Get yourself in order, and get yourself emotionally adjusted to the situation (a lot easier said than done, BTW).

You're at the beginning of what will likely be a long process of emotional adjustment. The 180 can help with that, but you need to be in a place where it will help. You're still hoping things will work out ok. The chance they will is probably VERY small. Adjust to that (unfortunate, from your perspective) reality and THEN you can start using the 180 to "fully detach" in a way that helps you become more independent, less distressed, and (if eventually interested) more able to move on.

[Leihla_B]

24 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

"The 180" is a bit of applied cognitive behavioral therapy designed to help you move on. However, I don't think you're ready to move on yet.

Yes, OP, this is important, because if you're reading some kind of bastardization from this^^^ as some kind of manipulation model to 'get your x back,' there is no validity to that.

My heart goes out to you, and please write more if it helps.

 

[Sbd]

All, 

I very much appreciate the responses.

The only news since I posted is that she is telling my friends and preempting me (I’ve been so embarrassed and feel like a fool so I haven’t wanted to tell everyone). So yeah she is getting on top of it to get her story out first saying yes it’s true she started talking to another man but it was  after she said she wanted a divorce (complete lie) so it’s okay. And she is doubling down on expressing all the reasons I was so bad and why she needed out. This was the first time during this I’ve felt anger.

Also confirmed she will be filing or has filed for divorce and that is trying to find herself a rental. 

I should clarify a couple things. 
 

1) I am virtually certain divorce is in our future. when I posted I thought maybe there was hope for reconciliation but nah that’s out the window. I’m to broken. She has told friends she will serve me perhaps even today. I am not going to drag the process out. I’ll never go back to her once it’s done. I’m coming to terms with this as I type.
Looking into attorneys but also gone for days at a time.  If she wants to play hard ball, it’s only a losing battle for her. She is the bread winner, and I mostly took care of the kids. Not a single soul on earth would say I’m anything short of a good dad. 
 

2) I am at the point where I believe she is to far gone to hear anything. I think all I’m really going to say to her is that I hope we can be amicable through divorce and that I don’t see her as an enemy. If she needs help moving I’ll be glad too get her things out. She wants the divorce over so bad that she probably won’t want to fight. Also the affair dog is thick so I’m sure negotiation won’t be tough. 
 

3) I still have the desire to get her out of the fog because she is going down a bad path and it’s impacting so many parts of her life she doesn’t understand. Her family is my family. We share kids. The longer she is in it, the harder she will fall. 
 

4) Her affair I do believe has not been to much physical. Lots of messaging and a couple dates. It’s heading in that direction though. Thats really the only reason I thought of taking a gentle approach in hopes she didn’t go where it’s headed. But she has shown nothing will stop her from this gem of a man. She is very naive (this innocence used to be a beautiful thing about her). We all know the guy only wants one thing. She has been in so few relationships the honeymoon phase is strong. She likely will be broken up with, not the other way around. Her world will come crashing down. I care about her immensely and this is tragic - although no, I don’t think I’ll be able to be there for the crash in any way after what she has put me through. 
 

She never used to be a manipulator in any way. Another reason this is so shocking. She deserves the gaslighting award of the year after this. Never really understood that term until now. 

[basil67]

You've got it wrong: She's not leaving to be with the other man - she's leaving because of years of discontent in the marriage.   The reason that she was able to even start the affair was because she was already on her way out the door

Forgive me for not understanding, but why do you see her manipulating or gaslighting? 

Edited October 18 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

Ugh, your wife was never quite into this the way you were. You don't have to keep making excuses  for the fact that you married very differently leveled people for a reason you've never quite articulated. 

Yes, it’s really sad. Your worst nightmare is coming true. What are you going to do? You’re near the end.  But if you weren’t quite what she wanted, well? Sometimes that's going to happen. The saddest part was a relationship that slowly wasted both of your times. She doesn’t want it, but she doesn’t want the wrecking it will create.

[Sbd]

Basil,  that’s certainly her perspective now after the affair. I was trying to give a balanced accurate view of the strife in our marriage in the original post. I guess I didn’t focus at all on the positives of our relationship. The fact it our marriage was normal in terms of conflict (I described it well above). It’s only since this affair has she written a completely horrible narrative that she has never loved me. While yes, I never felt she was madly in love with me - I’ve actually had people correct me recently (like her mother) and tell me that no she loved the heck out of me and was apparently always telling her mother how people just didn’t understand me.  Her and I could stay up late talking for hours about anything, sex life was never stale, and she did speak highly of me to others. Just some examples. She told people how things were looking up this summer how I’ve made progress. That’s right about when I think she met the guy, and in mid-August she completely turned to a different person. She was acting out and in turn I acted out. 

[Sbd]

Definitely some interesting perspectives folks. I did indeed say I never felt she was madly in love with me. Many are making comments about that. It’s possible it may have been exactly that, a feeling. That was one of my problems, I was often feeling hurt because it seemed like my wife didn’t love me because she wasn’t catering to my love language. If I think about  the more distant past. I now believe she loved me more than I realized based on what friends and family have said in light of these events. I believe she was committed to me and knew I had all the potential. Perhaps I was more of a project than she bargained for at times but things were always improving. 
 

Perhaps I was too self deprecating in the original post. As my friend just told me in an attempt to make me feel better  “woman flock to you, you’ll find another.” This friend doesn’t know how to read the room. I have a hard time seeing my worth right now but yes, I’ve built a successful business from nothing, some would say smart, very passionate, fun/interesting (all kinds of hobbies, my job is in recreation), tall, tan, and I’m in extremely good shape as my business requires it. 
 

Yes, I do/did put my wife on a pedestal in my mind. I honestly don’t know if she would think she married up or down but in my head (until late), I thought I had the better end of the deal. Shouldn’t everyone feel that way? I never wanted to settle. 

[basil67]

12 minutes ago, Sbd said:

Basil,  that’s certainly her perspective now after the affair. I was trying to give a balanced accurate view of the strife in our marriage in the original post. I guess I didn’t focus at all on the positives of our relationship. The fact it our marriage was normal in terms of conflict (I described it well above). It’s only since this affair has she written a completely horrible narrative that she has never loved me. While yes, I never felt she was madly in love with me - I’ve actually had people correct me recently (like her mother) and tell me that no she loved the heck out of me and was apparently always telling her mother how people just didn’t understand me.  Her and I could stay up late talking for hours about anything, sex life was never stale, and she did speak highly of me to others. Just some examples. She told people how things were looking up this summer how I’ve made progress. That’s right about when I think she met the guy, and in mid-August she completely turned to a different person. She was acting out and in turn I acted out. 

You describe being reactive, shouting and cussing when in conflict situations.... and that you thrive on conflict, let it out and forgive. This is certainly not normal in my marriage, nor in the marriages of our parents.  We strive for harmony and I think this was your wife's way too

And she didn't check out in August.  Reading your post, it's clear that there were many ways her needs weren't being met and so checked out long before that.  Kudos to you for being able to identify all the things which caused conflict in the marriage, but each of those things would have caused distance, and the number of them would have compounded to make her feel increasingly disconnected from you

[Sbd]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

You describe being reactive, shouting and cussing when in conflict situations.... and that you thrive on conflict, let it out and forgive. This is certainly not normal in my marriage, nor in the marriages of our parents.  We strive for harmony and I think this was your wife's way too

And she didn't check out in August.  Reading your post, it's clear that there were many ways her needs weren't being met and so checked out long before that.  Kudos to you for being able to identify all the things which caused conflict in the marriage, but each of those things would have caused distance, and the number of them would have compounded to make her feel increasingly disconnected from you

I’d say we have had 3 arguments over 8 years that I’d call a blow out. Where each other was yelling and absolutely nothing got solved. I knew she couldn’t handle that behavior and that it wasn’t the right thing to do so it didn’t happen often. She would shut down in any conflict no matter how gentle you approached it really. If it wasn’t pleasant she’d just assume to not address it. I tried different ways over the years to figure out how to communicate effectively and we had made progress but definitely 3 steps forward 2 steps back. 

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, Sbd said:

I still have the desire to get her out of the fog because she is going down a bad path and it’s impacting so many parts of her life she doesn’t understand.

But that is not your problem anymore. She is a grown up woman and she has made up her mind. The last thing you should do now is try to control her life.

 

4 hours ago, Sbd said:

She is very naive

Nothing about what you wrote about her so far points to naïveté on her side. You’ve built an image of your wife as an innocent fairy creature whose thoughts and deeds are all “pure”. She is a flesh and blood woman. She wants out of a loveless marriage and she has her desires which aren’t your concern now.

It doesn’t matter what that guy wants from her. It doesn’t matter what she wants from him. Let her go and focus on yourself, not on her. You need to completely and utterly forget the image of your wife that you’ve created and accept that she has gone her own way,.

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Ugh, your wife was never quite into this the way you were.

This is the root of everything that has happened between the OP and his wife.

OP, for your next relationship, please don’t seek out an idealized creature that you treat like a dainty porcelain figure. Get together with a woman who loves you the way you love her.

Edited October 19 by Gebidozo

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Sbd said:

Yes, I do/did put my wife on a pedestal in my mind. I honestly don’t know if she would think she married up or down but in my head (until late), I thought I had the better end of the deal. Shouldn’t everyone feel that way?

Exactly, everyone. Including your wife. She obviously didn’t feel she got the better end of the deal. A relationship can only work if both partners feel blessed and satisfied and grateful to each other.

Putting a person on a pedestal always results in terrible disappointment. More often than not, it is just a result on infatuation and a refusal to face some uncomfortable facts.

[Sbd]

I do really appreciate the insight. Keep the honesty coming. Ya’ll are my people apparently and tell it straight. It is interesting because my friends and her family (dad, brother) who have seen us grow together are telling me very different ways to proceed. They almost all agreed that yes I need to think about me but I should take a gentle, understanding approach and show her that I still love her. 

[Sbd]

56 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

This is the root of everything that has happened between the OP and his wife.

OP, for your next relationship, please don’t seek out an idealized creature that you treat like a dainty porcelain figure. Get together with a woman who loves you the way you love her.

Hahaha, she would disagree that I treated her that way. Probably would have preferred that I did more often. 
 

I’ve always been fine alone, I didn’t realize I’d like marriage and partnership as much as I did. Definitely going to be a very long time before I can wrap my head around being with another woman. I have friends that are single and never married, no kids, early 30s and say it’s rough out there. lol. 

[Alpacalia]

She could have sought to work on the marriage more than always going out with her friends and family. I just feel that you did a lot of back bending to appease your wife but you stopped short of asking her to treat you with the same respect.  

[S2B]

So now you see who she really is - it’s not someone you ever knew before.

protect yourself. Set half of your assets aside so she can’t take everything from you.

does she work? If she doesn’t then tell her to start working. Stop appeasing her - and start exposing her actions - tell family and friends that she started an affair! An affair while you were out there working hard to provide for your family!

she obviously doesn’t follow one thing about her “religion”! You’ll be better off if you can get the divorce over with - she not the nice person you thought she was.

focus on your life with your kids. Don’t get distracted by her terrible ways. Not all women are like her.

[spiritedaway2003]

No, I doubt your wife is in an "affair fog".  It sounds like she's been unhappy for some time (even if she loves you and cares about you and the progress/changes you've made over the years).  It's also problematic if she's never been in love with you... if that love wasn't strong enough to begin with. 

Don't use the kids as reasons for staying in a relationship. That never ends well.  If she's ready to move out, she's done.  180 isn't intended to use to get her to change her mind, but rather a way for you to "detach" and move on. 

If she's made her decision to leave the marriage (all it takes is one in a relationship), let it go and go through it as amicably as possible. 

As for whether you may be controlling - probably to some extent.  If the decision is made to separate, you can ask her not to bring the man she is dating to the shared house while you're going through the separation, but you don't get a say who she dates or doesn't now or in the future or who can or cannot see the kids.  You also don't get a say to ask her to move out -- she can on her own free will to get some space and get away from the situation (and it sounds like she is).  Until then, it's shared property.

Focus on you and the kids.  For your next relationship, don't put anyone on a pedestal.  A balanced relationship is often the healthiest one.

[Sbd]

I spoke with her last night. 
 

She said she told the other man she needs space right now. I could tell it’s hard on her to not have the connection with him so who knows if she will follow through. Maybe she is just waiting until after the dust settles to rekindle things with. Regardless she wants divorce and filed. 
 

I do believe many on here are right. She basically showed all the signs of a walk away wife, and was in an exit affair. She just wants to move on. I told her what I care most about is having an amicable divorce for the kids. 
 

While yes I deep down wish she would work on things with me and come around over time. I realize she has had enough. 

[Leihla_B]

1 hour ago, Sbd said:

While yes I deep down wish she would work on things with me and come around over time. I realize she has had enough. 

My heart goes out to you. It's important to seek legal advice quickly, but this doesn't mean pursuing it adversarially. There are ideas you can gain about 'uncoupling' that may be of interest to both of you. For instance, some parents keep the children in the family home to make it easier on them, and they alternate stays in the home with them. Some parents pursue counseling to negotiate best approaches to co-parent their children in a unified way. There are many reasons beyond just assets to pursue professional advice, and one may be to negotiate a legal separation period before agreeing to a divorce--some locations even require this. Not every couple who separates ends in divorce, so learn your options.

Head high, and keep writing if it helps. We are on your side.

Edited October 19 by Leihla_B

[Sbd]

I was able to have some good conversation with my wife last night and today. She told me “everything in her body is telling her she can’t be with me.” I asked what her soul says and she said that’s the only thing telling her it could be different but she knows she can’t wait around for the changes. I actually don’t believe she is in affair fog at all. She is just being pragmatic about divorce being what she needs. She opened up quite a bit and I just shut the heck up and listened. When she does that it gives me hope, unfortunately so probably. 

 It’s extremely weird for me living together but in different bedrooms, yet we do quite well going about our daily lives, laughing, watching TV, and chatting. I prefer it this way for as long as possible so I can interact with her and the kids together. She responds much better to me when I’m my friendly self, rather than before when I was so torn about everything and I tried harder to implement the 180. Yes I know the 180 is for me but if it’s detrimental to our relationship and nurturing the amicability that’s no good. Has anyone had negative effects from the 180? 
 

She looked at a rental today. The latest plan is that since I’m gone working for days at a time she will be home and when I’m home she is going to be at the rental.

 I’m done begging and pleading. I spent too long reasoning in the past and she has actually opened up a lot. Me just listening and acknowledging is helping her work through things and even if her and I don’t work out I have lots to learn from her about how to improve myself. 

Random note:

I never actually asked her to leave, I just said I wasn’t leaving. I don’t want her to leave if she doesn’t want to. It’s her home indeed.