What are your thoughts on this

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

For instance, getting you little gifts

Remember she offered him a nose trimmer 😁

[Acacia98]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

  One of the cultural differences my bf struggles with is letting me pay for our dates. Letting me pay is like crushing his male ego so once in a while l will crush him by purchasing  a weekend away & l tell him to shut up and enjoy 😊.  

😁

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

Remember she offered him a nose trimmer 😁

😆

[Leihla_B]

8 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

So all this culminated in me drawing a line recently just over a week ago where her schedule changed and I told her and also felt like this, (why bother that's what I told her in the text) because I'm not feeling like I'm that important.

This is confusing. What, exactly, did she say about her schedule, and how, exactly, did you respond?

[Els]

3 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

she came back from Korea after being with her mum before her mum passed for a few months. she may have a job now as she said the last time we spoke she had gotten a job as a care worker. But we haven't been out since.

If she grew up in Korea or even in a Korean family, then that basically explains it. In East Asian cultures, it's traditionally expected that the man will "court" the woman - this includes paying for dates, picking her up, making sure she's safe, etc. Just like how in Western cultures men often initiate light physical contact/affection or give verbal compliments to let a woman know that they view her romantically, in East Asian cultures paying and picking her up are the signals that men give.

Obviously, this isn't set in stone and you don't have to adhere to it just because you're dating a Korean woman. Things are changing, both in the East and globally. Just do whatever feels comfortable to you, and if she's not okay with that, it just means that you're not compatible.

 

[basil67]

10 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

I don't wanna compare with other relationships I've had that were long term but it wasn't like this. 

So you already have your answer.   

Thing is, other relationships tell us what's relatively normal and give us a benchmark for what we want in a relationship, so it would be foolish to not compare.   Of course, if her culture is one where the woman expects to be courted and that's not your thing, then avoid women from that culture.  

[Goodguy05]

5 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Does she ever do anything that makes you feel like she's giving? For instance, she may not pay for dates or drive, but maybe she's offered to make sandwiches (or something) for a picnic? Or maybe she's done something else really thoughtful that touched you? For instance, getting you little gifts or helping you out with useful information. If she hasn't ever done anything along those lines, then she's a taker and it's not just about preferring old-fashioned dating. Your average person doesn't feel comfortable, taking, taking, and taking endlessly. Most people will want to do something nice in return. 

Anyway, I totally understand why you haven't seen her again. Personally, I got exhausted just reading about how skewed things were between you two. I like balance, and this definitely was not it.

Of course there's always the possibility that her mum's passing has affected her behavior. Do you think that's possible?

Ye once she made some food for a picnic the picnic was her idea. Nothing fancy just a small salad pork and rice.

"Of course there's always the possibility that her mum's passing has affected her behavior. Do you think that's possible?"

That I'm not sure of.

 

Edited November 10 by Goodguy05

[Goodguy05]

2 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

This is confusing. What, exactly, did she say about her schedule, and how, exactly, did you respond?

I mentioned it in one of my responses to Gaeta above 

 

  6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

You said she isn't working then you said her schedule changed?

I meant she isn't working which is seperate to schedule changing. The schedule changing was me trying to arrange a date last saturday week. She said she would be free after 1pm so at 2pm i asked her to a art gallery thing which she had wanted to do, then she said she would be ready in another hour thats what i meant to schedule change. It normally wouldn't bother me that kind of thing and the art gallery was closing at 4pm. But when i thought bout why it did, it was an accummulation of things like paying which like i said i didn't mind but also picking her up using my car and gas and a few times i asked her out she would be only free on her schedule so i at that point thought why even bother with her.

Edited November 10 by Goodguy05

[Goodguy05]

2 hours ago, Leihla_B said:

This is confusing. What, exactly, did she say about her schedule, and how, exactly, did you respond?

The other thing I didn't mention she has been thinking about moving back to Korea and talks about it, after living in Australia since 2003. That's ok I've adjusted to the idea and even told her I could go but probably not permanently maybe back and forth a few months there and then back to Aus if I found the right job to enable that which is possible. Before meeting her I wanted to do this because I love Asia through my travels but not permanently it would be back and forth. I think this has (her moving back to Korea) also made me react the way I did on our last exchange when I told her why bother when the schedule change happened. 

Edited November 10 by Goodguy05

[Goodguy05]

2 hours ago, Els said:

If she grew up in Korea or even in a Korean family, then that basically explains it. In East Asian cultures, it's traditionally expected that the man will "court" the woman - this includes paying for dates, picking her up, making sure she's safe, etc. Just like how in Western cultures men often initiate light physical contact/affection or give verbal compliments to let a woman know that they view her romantically, in East Asian cultures paying and picking her up are the signals that men give.

Obviously, this isn't set in stone and you don't have to adhere to it just because you're dating a Korean woman. Things are changing, both in the East and globally. Just do whatever feels comfortable to you, and if she's not okay with that, it just means that you're not compatible.

 

I have dated other Asian woman (mainly thais and Filipinos) and was married to one (Filipino) and it wasn't like this just saying.I think you have a good point though even though my other relationships were different the underlying cultural differences were there for sure and courting expectations from woman from men paying etc yep that's the general view point I think you are right 

..point taken on board. 

 

This type of expectation from a woman paying picking her up doing all that I find it a bit too much. I don't think I could sustain it for a long period of time. It also makes me feel like I'm paying for her company and time effectively being used lol. As Alpaca mentioned though you also take into consideration what she does like making food etc but In this case it's one occasion she made some lunch out of all the dates and bought me a nose trimmer lol and some mositursiser which as funny as it was I appreciated didn't expect it though. Her showing appreciation to me would be making the effort to drive occasionally lol I don't mind paying here and there but at least that would balance it out 

Edited November 10 by Goodguy05

[Els]

7 minutes ago, Goodguy05 said:

I have dated other Asian woman (mainly thais and Filipinos) and was married to one (Filipino) and it wasn't like this just saying.I think you have a good point though even though my other relationships were different the underlying cultural differences were there for sure and courting expectations from woman from men paying etc yep that's the general view point I think you are right 

..point taken on board 

Certainly, not everyone follows the traditions of their culture, especially when they are living abroad. You shouldn't feel obligated to do so either - you can always set whatever boundaries you need.

Just to be clear, though, there are subtle but distinct differences between East Asian (Korean, Japanese, Chinese) and Southeast Asian (Thai, Filipino, etc) cultures. Generally speaking the whole paying, driving and courting thing is a bigger deal in East Asian cultures compared to Southeast Asian. But there are also a lot of similarities, as you say, and also a lot of intermingling, as many Southeast Asian countries are multicultural and have a large East Asian population.

[fred123]

[ ]  She has low interest in you. Another guy she's into she would pay for stuff

Edited November 11 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
argumentative

[Gebidozo]

I agree that this behavior is in line with traditional East Asian ideas about dating. It is a remnant from a very patriarchal past in which a woman was basically viewed as an expensive, coveted object. The man had to show he had enough resources to essentially “buy” her.

Then, in marriage, the same woman would become his “property “. She’d turn into a meek housewife and tolerate all sorts of abhorrent behavior from the husband, including infidelity.

However, not all East Asian women feel this way. A growing number of them move away from that objectifying, demeaning view, especially in large cities.

I’ve been living in a very big city in an East Asian country for 20 years. I am together with a local lady now, whose ideas about dating are completely different and coincide with mine. 

[Goodguy05]

5 hours ago, fred123 said:

[ ]  She has low interest in you. Another guy she's into she would pay for stuff

I suspect the same 

[Goodguy05]

Interesting. I read an article inside the Herald about dating and dating etiquette and its opinion was that whoever invites or suggests the date whether that's the male or female, is the one that should cover the costs for the whole date. Mmm so men tend to lead in this department lol.

Edited November 11 by Goodguy05

[Acacia98]

9 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

Ye once she made some food for a picnic the picnic was her idea. Nothing fancy just a small salad pork and rice.

 

Okay. But the little things she has done don't seem to have been enough to cancel out the feeling that you're being used. So I'm inclined to agree with the folks who say you and her are incompatible.

[Els]

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

I agree that this behavior is in line with traditional East Asian ideas about dating. It is a remnant from a very patriarchal past in which a woman was basically viewed as an expensive, coveted object. The man had to show he had enough resources to essentially “buy” her.

Then, in marriage, the same woman would become his “property “. She’d turn into a meek housewife and tolerate all sorts of abhorrent behavior from the husband, including infidelity.

This might vary with the specific culture, but IME the whole "meek housewife" thing has always been a myth. In my culture, anyway, traditionally women would control the household finances, including how much the man is allowed to spend. So he'd bring home his paycheck, give it to her, and she'd give him a bit of it as his "allowance". She'd also set the "rules of the house", such as when he's expected to come home and how often he's allowed to spend time with his friends. The negative tradeoff for women is that they are culturally expected to live with the man's parents, do whatever the parents want (including having as many kids as the parents want, and raising them in their choice of environment), and take care of them. The hierarchy is basically man's parents >>>>>>> woman > man.

Quote

 

However, not all East Asian women feel this way. A growing number of them move away from that objectifying, demeaning view, especially in large cities.

I’ve been living in a very big city in an East Asian country for 20 years. I am together with a local lady now, whose ideas about dating are completely different and coincide with mine.

 

Agreed completely. Many of us aren't tied to our traditions, and there's a wide spectrum of behaviour from very traditional to very modern/Western. I think some things are easier to let go off (e.g. the whole "controlling the man's paycheck" thing and the utter subservience to parents). Other things will take more time, as attraction and perception of gender roles are things that are subconsciously ingrained in us from childhood. For instance, I'm intellectually completely fine with the idea of taking turns paying for dates, but I can't really help feeling more attracted and viewing it as very masculine behaviour when the man insists on paying. I don't view masculinity the same way as my Western peers do - I don't find muscles or initiating physical contact early in the relationship or choosing the place and time of the date to be "masculine".

H is the same way as I am - he maintains some traditional beliefs but is very modern in other ways. It's just a matter of finding someone who views things the same way you do.

[glows]

Half Asian with a progressive Asian father who taught me to drive at 16 and fend for myself. This led to some hilarious/incredulous moments later while dating when a man has offered to pick me up. Sorry it didn’t work out. I do think she expected you to appreciate her but it’s ok if you don’t. 

[Goodguy05]

6 hours ago, glows said:

Half Asian with a progressive Asian father who taught me to drive at 16 and fend for myself. This led to some hilarious/incredulous moments later while dating when a man has offered to pick me up. Sorry it didn’t work out. I do think she expected you to appreciate her but it’s ok if you don’t. 

It wasn't that I didn't appreciate her it was more so I feel like I'm  doing all the work and not seeing that much from her end even asking her out. I get people are busy but it was almost each time I asked her out her availability it kind of came across like I wasn't a high priority but that could be on me maybe not planning it better like asking her on the day sometimes. 

At the start I pursued her asked her out every 3 or 4 days for a few dates at the start then she got the flu. I'd asked her out that day but she wasn't well so left it and didn't hear from her for almost 11 days lol. I wrote about it before. I thought it was over and made peace with the fact and then she reached out but since then I lost a bit confidence and questioned her interest because 11 days ye it's a long time for someone to wait to reach out. When I asked her why it took so long her reason was she didn't want me to get sick lol. I didn't quiet buy that and suspected she wanted to be chased like ole school style. But that 11 days dwindled my confidence in her interest level in me and I backed off somewhat. Then when I did muster up the confidence to ask her out she would be doing something or would be free after a certain time. So I guess the whole time I'm also trying to gouge her interest

Edited November 11 by Goodguy05

[basil67]

@Goodguy05  when she said she wasn't well, did you ask her to let you know when she was feeling better?  

[Goodguy05]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

@Goodguy05  when she said she wasn't well, did you ask her to let you know when she was feeling better?  

No didn't think to ask I just said hope you get better soon 

[Goodguy05]

Well there goes that one. Why do I feel crap. I just saw her updated tinder profile lol not that I haven't been on there myself. 

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

Well there goes that one. Why do I feel crap. I just saw her updated tinder profile lol not that I haven't been on there myself. 

Aww sorry. 

I think it's for the best. Don't get discouraged you will meet someone eventually. You had too many questionning about this woman, it usually means it's not meant.

[Leihla_B]

5 hours ago, Goodguy05 said:

Well there goes that one. Why do I feel crap. I just saw her updated tinder profile lol not that I haven't been on there myself. 

She did you a favor. You feel like crap because your were tapdancing too hard to try to get her to like you instead of considering how much you actually like her.

You were not comfortable with her. That tells you a lot. When someone makes it too difficult to feel like yourself and be yourself, then it's just two masks interacting. That's not what you want, is it?

Head high.

[Goodguy05]

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Aww sorry. 

I think it's for the best. Don't get discouraged you will meet someone eventually. You had too many questionning about this woman, it usually means it's not meant.

I was thinking to reach out and engage lol what you think ? See where it goes. Maybe I overreacted 

[Goodguy05]

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Aww sorry. 

I think it's for the best. Don't get discouraged you will meet someone eventually. You had too many questionning about this woman, it usually means it's not meant.

I was thinking to reach out and engage lol what you think ? See where it goes. Maybe I overreacted. Too late I just did lol I can't leave things like this anyway.. oh well see what happens