do I support him as a friend or walk away from this?

[dahliasanddaisies]

57 minutes ago, dahliasanddaisies said:

Well yes, I kind of meant the dynamic between us. I'm finding it hard because for the last few months he's finally said things I've wanted to hear from him for years, and now he's turned round and said its just friends. I initially said if we weren't exclusive I didn't want to continue, or be friends. He demanded to see me immediately face to face then I didn't hear from him for a couple of days and he'd changed. Friends for him means daily texting and spending time together without a label. Hard no. 

He's always refused to tell me anything that's not true and this time he said it all apart from the word love. And now he's run away. My head is still spinning and trying to make sense of what's just happened.

Things have been romantic before, but when he's said he can't commit I turned it to friends, successfully I thought. I had a relationship with someone else, and he went on a lot of 'dates'. He came back after a 2 year break and travelled over to see me, then it just exploded.

I guess I'm concerned that I read the signs wrong and am trying to get it straight in my head so I never make this mistake again. Because I feel like I've wasted 7 years of feelings.  Also I've had 2 long term relationships, both with guys who were heavily avoidant and had the same abandonment problems with awful father's.

In fact I'm feeling like there's something I need to learn here as I seem to keep repeating the same relationship!

Thank you for messaging. I'm really finding this tough. I'm a single mum so have to spend evenings in the house with my own company, not the best thing at the mo!

Ps I think I'm so analytical because I'm what's now popularly known as neurodivergent and a little spectrumy. I also used to work as a psychologist, and I always NEED to know

[Acacia98]

4 hours ago, dahliasanddaisies said:

Things have been romantic before, but when he's said he can't commit I turned it to friends, successfully I thought. I had a relationship with someone else, and he went on a lot of 'dates'. He came back after a 2 year break and travelled over to see me, then it just exploded.

I guess I'm concerned that I read the signs wrong and am trying to get it straight in my head so I never make this mistake again. Because I feel like I've wasted 7 years of feelings.  Also I've had 2 long term relationships, both with guys who were heavily avoidant and had the same abandonment problems with awful father's.

In fact I'm feeling like there's something I need to learn here as I seem to keep repeating the same relationship!

Your guy seems to have similar issues to someone I know who oscillates between seeking emotional intimacy and fleeing from it. The person I know is unable to have healthy long-term relationships. And the women who try to date him end up having similar experiences to you. If you're interested, look up borderline personality disorder. There are a few similarities between it and the kind of dynamic we're discussing here, so reading about it might give you a bit of insight into your guy's behavior.

Anyway, I think you should stop feeling guilty about distancing yourself from your guy because he knows from previous experiences exactly how he is with emotional intimacy. He knows that he seeks it out and then subsequently runs, fleeing from the scene. And precisely because he knows that, he should never have led you (twice!!!) to think that anything was possible with him. It's pretty messed up that he did that then retreated back into the "let's just be friends" shell and begged you not to let him go. That was a pretty selfish action on his part, and it's important for you to see it for what it was. I say this, not to demonize him, but to help you realize that you shouldn't feel guilty. It's okay to feel compassion for him. But do so from a safe distance. Don't second-guess your wise decision or allow your guilt to make you take backward steps.

I think it's great that you see the patterns in the type of guy you're attracted to. Please continue with the effort to understand yourself and your choices. It will help you tremendously with the healing process and, hopefully, enable you to establish healthier, more fulfilling relationships in the future.

[glows]

Where is he at in terms of his relationship with his son? He’s struggling in his career and finding a place to live yet booking multiple trips spending $$ on you but possibly not visiting his son in another country? I’m curious about that situation as can you imagine the guilt upon his conscience. 

I think you invested so much emotion and time with him that it’s hard for you to let go. Why do you feel you owe this man any support when he doesn’t support your desire for a relationship? 

Him wanting friendship is probably very desperately human and predictable..I’m sorry about that. I think anyone who knows what it’s like to struggle will know any friendship with someone trustworthy is a bright light in a very dark space.

You can love someone. Just remember to love yourself too. It’s two sides of the same coin. Not one more than the other and if they cannot coexist the only person you must live with is yourself.
 

 

[dahliasanddaisies]

9 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Your guy seems to have similar issues to someone I know who oscillates between seeking emotional intimacy and fleeing from it. The person I know is unable to have healthy long-term relationships. And the women who try to date him end up having similar experiences to you. If you're interested, look up borderline personality disorder. There are a few similarities between it and the kind of dynamic we're discussing here, so reading about it might give you a bit of insight into your guy's behavior.

Anyway, I think you should stop feeling guilty about distancing yourself from your guy because he knows from previous experiences exactly how he is with emotional intimacy. He knows that he seeks it out and then subsequently runs, fleeing from the scene. And precisely because he knows that, he should never have led you (twice!!!) to think that anything was possible with him. It's pretty messed up that he did that then retreated back into the "let's just be friends" shell and begged you not to let him go. That was a pretty selfish action on his part, and it's important for you to see it for what it was. I say this, not to demonize him, but to help you realize that you shouldn't feel guilty. It's okay to feel compassion for him. But do so from a safe distance. Don't second-guess your wise decision or allow your guilt to make you take backward steps.

I think it's great that you see the patterns in the type of guy you're attracted to. Please continue with the effort to understand yourself and your choices. It will help you tremendously with the healing process and, hopefully, enable you to establish healthier, more fulfilling relationships in the future.

It's funny you should say this really, and I appreciate the insight thank you.  His ex-GF has BPD, and I'm guessing other mental health issues as he mentioned once or twice she was hospitalised for it.  I've never really read up on it much, but will take a look at it.  He had a long term (on and off) relationship with her for several years.  To be fair to him he's always told me he could never face another relationship again which is why I insisted on being friends when he flirted with me.  When he came back and I said I couldn't be friends any more he agreed and also agreed to give things a go.  I didn't pin him down to specifics, which is on me.  I don't exactly feel like he completely misled me, but there are elements there.  I was slack really because I was convinced he'd fall at the first hurdle, so was surprised when he followed up with arranging two further trips with me.  Before I travelled to see him on the first I thought it was time for the specifics, and luckily I saved myself further heartache.

I will try everything I can to understand whatever patterns I can see here because I never want to go through this again.  We fell into contact when I got divorced and he left his ex, it was a happy accident we met.  But I can now see how important intentions are, and also knowing what you want when you date or get talking to someone.

[dahliasanddaisies]

8 hours ago, glows said:

Where is he at in terms of his relationship with his son? He’s struggling in his career and finding a place to live yet booking multiple trips spending $$ on you but possibly not visiting his son in another country? I’m curious about that situation as can you imagine the guilt upon his conscience. 

I think you invested so much emotion and time with him that it’s hard for you to let go. Why do you feel you owe this man any support when he doesn’t support your desire for a relationship? 

Him wanting friendship is probably very desperately human and predictable..I’m sorry about that. I think anyone who knows what it’s like to struggle will know any friendship with someone trustworthy is a bright light in a very dark space.

You can love someone. Just remember to love yourself too. It’s two sides of the same coin. Not one more than the other and if they cannot coexist the only person you must live with is yourself.
 

 

Ok so this is a question and a half.  He no longer has a relationship with his son.  His ex moved countries with him and blocked him everywhere.  He flew over to see them a couple of times, but it was unsustainable, and he nearly had a breakdown having to leave his son all the time.  He thought about moving, but was in the middle of his masters at the time.  Then she blocked him.  I think he then did have a breakdown (we didn't really speak for a couple years) and when we caught up again he'd done a 180 saying that he didn't love his son and didn't want to be a father.

There's a backstory to this.  She fell pregnant by not taking her contraceptive.  They went to get the morning after pill but she didn't take it.  Then she went awol.  He hadn't wanted children, specifically so because his dad abandoned him and by all sounds traumatised the family.  She wanted children as she was about to start a lifelong medication that doesn't allow her to get pregnant.

You can see where this story is going.

He met up with her after she had the baby and became a dad for the first 5 years, they'd split up at his birth but shared care of their son.  Then she moved.

I hope I'm explaining this in a way people can understand.  There's so much to this story, it's messy, and they've all been through a lot.  I've only heard one side of it.

I do feel for him, he says I'm the most compassionate person he's ever met and has no idea why I stick around and could do so much better than him.  I guess I'm loyal to him because he's always given that compassion back to me.

It's funny you say remember to love yourself though.  I find being compassionate to others something I want to do yet I really struggle to give the same back to myself.  I don't know why it's so hard.

I have a daughter who is growing up and I want to be a better person for her.  Posting here is teaching me all sorts really, and I appreciate the time people have given me with their opinions and advice.  I can't afford counselling, and I don't want to chew my friends' ears off any more than I need to.

[glows]

16 hours ago, dahliasanddaisies said:

Ok so this is a question and a half.  He no longer has a relationship with his son.  His ex moved countries with him and blocked him everywhere.  He flew over to see them a couple of times, but it was unsustainable, and he nearly had a breakdown having to leave his son all the time.  He thought about moving, but was in the middle of his masters at the time.  Then she blocked him.  I think he then did have a breakdown (we didn't really speak for a couple years) and when we caught up again he'd done a 180 saying that he didn't love his son and didn't want to be a father.

There's a backstory to this.  She fell pregnant by not taking her contraceptive.  They went to get the morning after pill but she didn't take it.  Then she went awol.  He hadn't wanted children, specifically so because his dad abandoned him and by all sounds traumatised the family.  She wanted children as she was about to start a lifelong medication that doesn't allow her to get pregnant.

You can see where this story is going.

He met up with her after she had the baby and became a dad for the first 5 years, they'd split up at his birth but shared care of their son.  Then she moved.

I hope I'm explaining this in a way people can understand.  There's so much to this story, it's messy, and they've all been through a lot.  I've only heard one side of it.

I do feel for him, he says I'm the most compassionate person he's ever met and has no idea why I stick around and could do so much better than him.  I guess I'm loyal to him because he's always given that compassion back to me.

It's funny you say remember to love yourself though.  I find being compassionate to others something I want to do yet I really struggle to give the same back to myself.  I don't know why it's so hard.

I have a daughter who is growing up and I want to be a better person for her.  Posting here is teaching me all sorts really, and I appreciate the time people have given me with their opinions and advice.  I can't afford counselling, and I don't want to chew my friends' ears off any more than I need to.

We also have to ponder on why/how the relationship between himself and the mother of his child broke down so badly that she had to block him. from a different country. 

I read somewhere that we meet people who are at our level. I think it’s fine to have compassion and sympathy but when it comes to your personal peace there should be boundaries. You made your needs known and made a decision so id stick with it. Staying friends isn’t a good idea as you already surmised as long as you have romantic feelings. Theres conflict of interest.  

 

[ShyViolet]

You really need to ask yourself why you would be drawn to a person who is homeless, has mental health issues, has a son who he doesn't see, and who was blocked by the mother of his child... need I go on?  All of that dysfunction should have been a huge red flag to you and not something that you are drawn to.  It speaks to poor judgment and poor boundaries.

[dahliasanddaisies]

5 hours ago, glows said:

We also have to ponder on why/how the relationship between himself and the mother of his child broke down so badly that she had to block him. from a different country. 

I read somewhere that we meet people who are at our level. I think it’s fine to have compassion and sympathy but when it comes to your personal peace there should be boundaries. You made your needs known and made a decision so id stick with it. Staying friends isn’t a good idea as you already surmised as long as you have romantic feelings. Theres conflict of interest.  

 

She moved back to be with her family, and wanted him to go with her. Originally he was going to move but got accepted on the masters program he'd wanted. She blocked him when he said he couldn't go. Life for him has got worse because he's buried his head and I originally encouraged him to confront it all, but left him to it. 

I have made my decision because I felt it at gut level, but it's not been easy to ignore the emotional side of things. On a positive note its given me some peace and also let me appreciate that I can draw my boundaries and put myself first. I feel like this might be a good learning curve.

[dahliasanddaisies]

17 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

You really need to ask yourself why you would be drawn to a person who is homeless, has mental health issues, has a son who he doesn't see, and who was blocked by the mother of his child... need I go on?  All of that dysfunction should have been a huge red flag to you and not something that you are drawn to.  It speaks to poor judgment and poor boundaries.

I wasn't drawn to a person with all those issues. He was very successful living in a lovely house with a son who he had 50/50 when I met him and a good relationship with his then ex. Just because things changed didn't mean I was going to cut him out. I went through a rough patch and he supported me also through loss and grief. We became close friends above anything else, and were for most of the time we've known each other.

I don't feel that any of this has been malicious, I think he now has more problems than he knows how to handle which is why I'm drawing boundaries to distance myself. I have a lot of empathy with people who go through hard times in life, and as long as I'm protecting my peace that's what's important. My job is working with oncology patients and families, I see a lot of trauma in my everyday work.

[Leihla_B]

On 11/5/2024 at 1:58 AM, dahliasanddaisies said:

In fact I'm feeling like there's something I need to learn here as I seem to keep repeating the same relationship!

Very smart self-observation. There are plenty of people who are attracted to those who provoke a sense of longing. This is often confused with love. It might be a good idea to explore this further with a professional who is trained in this stuff rather than with one of the guys who most prominently raises that longing in you.

Good work!

[dahliasanddaisies]

11 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

Very smart self-observation. There are plenty of people who are attracted to those who provoke a sense of longing. This is often confused with love. It might be a good idea to explore this further with a professional who is trained in this stuff rather than with one of the guys who most prominently raises that longing in you.

Good work!

Thank you for your observation. Is there a topic I can google on this? I don't have the money to speak to someone, but I'm pretty good at research!

[NuevoYorko]

On 11/5/2024 at 1:00 PM, dahliasanddaisies said:

I will try everything I can to understand whatever patterns I can see here because I never want to go through this again. 

Maybe there's merit in that but I see you more remaining in this for an unnecessarily lengthy time, ruminating, enmeshed and embroiled,  rather than attending to all the other parts of your life including, I believe, parenting a young child.  How do you have room for this guy to take up this much emotional and mental space in your world?  You don't need to go through it again - if you stay in it.

On 11/5/2024 at 1:00 PM, dahliasanddaisies said:

 

We fell into contact when I got divorced and he left his ex, it was a happy accident we met

Did this whole thing get started online?  Or did you meet in person?

 

[dahliasanddaisies]

13 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Maybe there's merit in that but I see you more remaining in this for an unnecessarily lengthy time, ruminating, enmeshed and embroiled,  rather than attending to all the other parts of your life including, I believe, parenting a young child.  How do you have room for this guy to take up this much emotional and mental space in your world?  You don't need to go through it again - if you stay in it.

Did this whole thing get started online?  Or did you meet in person?

 

I want to understand my own patterns in relationships,, not related to him. And I have hours alone most nights sat in the house while.my daughter is sleeping. I'm not very good at all kinds of relationships, I find other people's behaviours hard to decode. Hence training in psychology. 

This was an online social meetup thing  where you could arrange to meet people at events. We'd arranged to meet with others but I missed it and we carried on talking then met after a few weeks.

[Leihla_B]

2 hours ago, dahliasanddaisies said:

Thank you for your observation. Is there a topic I can google on this? I don't have the money to speak to someone, but I'm pretty good at research!

Attachment theory.

[glows]

4 hours ago, dahliasanddaisies said:

She moved back to be with her family, and wanted him to go with her. Originally he was going to move but got accepted on the masters program he'd wanted. She blocked him when he said he couldn't go. Life for him has got worse because he's buried his head and I originally encouraged him to confront it all, but left him to it. 

I have made my decision because I felt it at gut level, but it's not been easy to ignore the emotional side of things. On a positive note its given me some peace and also let me appreciate that I can draw my boundaries and put myself first. I feel like this might be a good learning curve.

That’s what he tells you ..the part above I bolded. Does it even make sense to block the father of your child if he’s accepted in a masters program. Time passes. Life moves on. Masters programs end. It’s not a good reason to block. It doesn’t add up 

Please give it time. Maybe 3-6 months breathing room, no texting, no talking. Turn to friends, hobbies, engage with your daughter, make plans with her. Maybe a spring vacation, see some relatives or plan a trip. It’s incredibly amazing what time does to bring us to our senses and give new perspective. It’s natural to feel hurt and in withdrawal or missing someone. It’s over though. 

[dahliasanddaisies]

25 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

Attachment theory.

Ah OK. Thanks. I've been reading up on this and it seems all my exes follow the same avoidant pattern, and I tend to follow a fearful avoidant pattern.

[dahliasanddaisies]

20 minutes ago, glows said:

That’s what he tells you ..the part above I bolded. Does it even make sense to block the father of your child if he’s accepted in a masters program. Time passes. Life moves on. Masters programs end. It’s not a good reason to block. It doesn’t add up 

Please give it time. Maybe 3-6 months breathing room, no texting, no talking. Turn to friends, hobbies, engage with your daughter, make plans with her. Maybe a spring vacation, see some relatives or plan a trip. It’s incredibly amazing what time does to bring us to our senses and give new perspective. It’s natural to feel hurt and in withdrawal or missing someone. It’s over though. 

Well I guess I know nothing for sure other than what he told me. I know she was/is manipulative and was sectioned several times. He stayed with her and looked after her until he could no longer cope. But I only know what he tells me I guess. 

My time with my daughter is focused solely on her, and in-between I work and see friends. I have a busy life when she's not here and I'm actually trying to stop distracting myself with going out and hobbies to bring some focus into my life 😄. I walked away from him 2 years ago so I know I can do it again, just this time I'd like to learn better and actually focus on myself as a person instead of solely being a mum, colleague or friend. It's been a really tough few years and it's time to give myself a break.