random tears Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Hi everyone..... Lets say your SO has lied to you in the past. Has lied about being in one place (ie work) but is really in another (who knows where but they tell you some place innocuous so as not to alarm you and you just have to accept it because you werent there and it was too late to find proof.) Now....Because of their lies, you find it hard to trust when they say they are working....right? okay.. Lets just say that you are privy to information (ie their clock in clock out stubs) that they are not necessarily aware that you know of..... Okay, lets just say you are snooping.... and you find that the time stub for that night is missing yet he was working.... Now you have to blow your cover and you start to rant about how you know they werent working at all because the time stub is not with all the others (plus they were acting suspicious) and shoot..... THEY TRICK YOU!!!! They purposefully left it somewhere else knowing full well you were snooping in the first place and were going to confront them. They bring out the stub, waving it triumphantly in front of your face, telling you that you need to trust them and that this is "THE LAST TIME I AM GOING TO SHOW YOU THIS, YOU WILL NEVER SEE THESE STUBS AGAIN" and when you start believing them, your life will be much happier...... Okaaayyyyyy...now... The next day SO says he is working. You could not resist, and so you checked for the time stubs. True to his word, they were not there anymore. How do you know SO was working....you dont.. Question: Was this SO right in what he did? To me, it is like he just ripped my security blanket away from me. It is almost like having a blindfold tied around your eyes and being led around through a jungle filled with booby traps and man eating crocidiles, all the while being told "you need to trust me, you need to believe me" UMMMMMMMM....HHHEEELLLLLPPPPP!!! Feedback GREATLY appreciated.... If he wants me to trust him, why is he deliberately witholding information that can make me gain more trust in him????? Or was he right for doing this?? Link to post Share on other sites
JadeStar Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Your security blanket was the checking of his pay stubs? Have you talked to him about why it is you have felt the need to snoop? Have you told him you do not trust him because of lies he once told? At some point in order for a relationship to work, the trust is going to have to be rebuilt, which would mean he needs truthful to you in what he says and his actions. And you have to do your part by not snooping anymore. As far as him taking away his pay stubs, he either has done it because he feels your snooping is silly and uncalled for because possibly he is telling the truth, or he does have something to hide. Either way you both are going to have to pull together if you want it to work. Jade Link to post Share on other sites
lilmoma1973 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Go to marriage counseling ,and work on the trust issues you are having with him,then maybe you will be able to rebuild the trust back up ,and you won't be snooping cause you don't believe him!!Communication is the key to a sucessful marriage if you don't have that ,then what do you have.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 But here is my thing....WHY take away the one thing that can help me to build my trust again...it is like he is FORCING me to trust him by giving me no other alternative but to believe him......If he wants me to trust him, why take the stubs away??? why not leave them where I can see them? Who cares if its nosy? its not like the stubs are top secret info that the government forbade him to show other people. They are just stubs for petes sake, and if it makes me feel better and more secure, why not????? Link to post Share on other sites
bluechocolate Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 They are just stubs for petes sake, and if it makes me feel better and more secure, why not????? If you're living together then I can't see why not either. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know where each other is at all times. He sure be at work when he says he will be & have nothing to hide about. This isn't about you being mistrustful. Why does he need to taunt you like this? It's silly. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 He's lied to you in the past, so IMO, his life should be a open book if he wants the relationship to last. Don't feel guilty about the snooping. Instead ask yourself why you would want to stay with someone who would deliberately taunt you about that kind of stuff when he knows you're insecure due to his lying?? He was playing with you, and that would piss me off. Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 He could of very well been using that as a means to further hide a secret, if he has one. What caught my eye is that this guy caught her snooping, now barring telepathy, how would he come to this conclusion? It means he was probably doing thorough searches to make sure you werent snooping? then, when he found out you were..he set this little test up as an insurance policy. He now has this one instance where you were wrong to be suspicious, so in the future he might think its a green light to keep lying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Thats exactly what I mean!!! He did this one other time too, which leads me to believe that this was one huge set up to begin with. One day I was cleaning the bathroom and I stumbled across a product for men that is supposed to "enhance" performance if you know what I mean. My instinctive reaction was "what the _ is this and why is it hidden away"? and because it was hidden away I thought this product was obviously something he didnt want me to know about. And that train of thought led to: "well, if he doesnt want me to know about it, and it is quite obvious that this product is used WHEN ENGAGING IN THE ACT what IS he using it for?" Of course I checked this product everyday to see if it moved (as in left the house) because at this point of course he didnt know that I knew it was even in the house. And if it did move, why would he leave the house with a product like that, given its sexual nature and if he is not using it with me then who is he using it with????? One day, this product was gone....vanished....of course I freaked out because to me, that would be proof enough.....and I called him and was screaming wild accusations into the phone when he told me to calm down and walk over to his drawer and open it....there was the product!!! I asked him why he hid it in the first place and then moved it...and he told me this: "I was embarrassed to talk to you about it so I put it where you could find it so when you found it you would say something but then it was like you never found it so I moved it thinking that if you did find it and werent talking about it you would certainly freak out and start yelling and accusing me when you noticed it was gone...." He is pretty crafty, huh???? So I am thinking he did the same exact thing with the time stubs. Letting me see them and then one day hiding one of them away KNOWING i am horrible with snooping sometimes and if I did happen to see the time stubs and notice that one was missing I would surely throw a fit because to me that would signify he was lying again about being at work. Which of course he was at work, I guess it was just an elaborate set up so he would have a reason to start hiding them away for what reason though??? could it be: 1. because he REALLY IS TIRED of my snooping and mistrustfulness and is forcing me to believe him by giving me no other choice? 2.So the next time he wanted to go out he could use the work excuse and of course I wouldnt know because the stubs are now being hidden? And even if it is #2, why cant he just say "im going over such and such's house" etc? To me, he is more than just a liar at times...i mean he really is sneaky and pretty underhanded too, wouldnt you all say? How would you describe this type of person? Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I dunno, but I know that if I was dating a compulsive snoop who reacted so dramatically at his findings, I'd have some fun with the whole thing. I'd move crazy objects too just to see what he'd do. Just for a cheap laugh at his expense... He'd deserve it for being so damn nosy. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Yeah, the whole snooping thing is weird and I would hate it. My mother used to go through my things constantly when I was at school and I never felt like I had any privacy. I have split up with people for snooping, not because I was cheating, but because that invasion of privacy is not cool and it makes you feel like a CHILD. I mean, his sneakiness and your sneakiness seem pretty equal. This seems like a weird relationship dynamic. Here's the thing, it's like you're him mother or something. Every times there is any change in his stubs, you would question him and grill him. My exBF was like that, always wanting to know where I was, who I was with, who I was on the phone with. I felt like, if he trust me, he wouldn't NEED to know everything about me. He would let me have my life and my privacy and be confident in my committment to him. Just because you're partnered with someone shouldn't mean you lose your own identity and privacy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Okay, I agree, maybe snooping is wrong, but if he has lied so much, when do you stop becoming the stupid idiot who falls for his lies and start becoming an aware individual who can actually do something about it? and my question was, should I take a chance and just believe him? Or do I have a reason to keep looking?? And no, I dont do it all the time but combined with his lies, its too much sometimes Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Well, here's the thing. If he lies all the time, and there is no basis for trust, then there is no relationship. If you spend you time getting back at him for lying to you, trying to control what he chooses to do by monitoring him rather than trusting him, then what is left of the relationship but remnants of what used to be good, and going through the motions of what has to be done every day? You can't DO anything about him lying. That is his responsibility. But you can take yourself out of a tailspin of a relationship... Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Thing is, I DON’T snoop all the time. In the past when he seemed particularly evasive, and the stories he would tell didn’t make sense, and he came and went as he pleased, and his behavior was odd, and he was being secretive on the phone BUT was telling me to my face that nothing was wrong and that I was crazy for becoming suspicious and his behaviors still persisted……Well, I guess at that point I had 2 choices….believe him and live with his very odd behavior or do some investigating. I chose to investigate. And I can honestly say it is a good thing I did on some occasions. No one likes to be deceived and tricked. It is better to have all the cards out in front of you so you can make an aware and informed decision. And no one said that I was exactly the girlfriend of the year. I am just a girl who wants to protect her heart from becoming more damaged than it already has. Quite obviously, I do believe that the relationship is worth working out our problems. And as of late he has been pretty wonderful and it seems more connected to me and our life together instead of keeping me so cold and distant……but my question is, how does one get over the past hurts and lies and deliberate deceit and go to automatically trusting someone? Don’t you have to build on the trust? Again, why is it a big issue that I cant see his time stubs? Do I just need to ignore that and him?? ----- Afraid to let go and fall flat on my face…….. Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 I think it is odd that if you want a spouse to trust you that you would set them up to find unexplained items like he is doing to you?? I think I smell a wee rat here. Could be wrong but it does not add up in my view. a4a Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 And no, I am not his mother, but damn, if it is in my house, and your acting sneaky and underhanded I AM GOING TO LOOK, bottom line. Like that one post I read not too long ago, one woman said she wished she did snoop because it would of saved her months of heartache, she found out he was a CHEAT and a COKE ADDICT. How do you know if you don’t look? How then are you supposed to deal with the odd behaviour, the lying and the deceit if they clearly don’t wish to divulge what is going on? Sit back and watch? Let them F up your life in the process? And yes, you are right a4a…it is suspicious that he would play the “Hide and go seek” game with me in the first place. It is like he is testing me every time to see how far he can go without the “moron girlfriend” catching wind of his activities. People get together for a variety of reasons. I am not the type of girl who is a “good time gal”. Or the type that is “only there to cook and clean and service him” and if this is why he is keeping me around, I would just as soon as hit the road. How will I know what I mean to him if I don’t check up on him from time to time JUST to be sure that he has changed his ways like he professes he has. But hiding the stubs has gotten me concerned……. The more proof he takes away, the harder it is going to be to trust…and I don’t want to be tracking him down at work or going through elaborate schemes just to find out. Because all it takes at this point is ONE MORE LIE….I have suffered enough. I have lived with it enough that I have paid more than my dues at this point. Suggestions? Besides “have a talk with him” doesn’t work. A truthful person isn’t just truthful in front of your face, they are truthful behind your back as well…. Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 While I agree that unjustified snooping is wrong, in this situation I would have to say you have a reason to doubt, and a reason to look for reassurance as to his whereabouts. It is not your responsibility to just "get over it" and trust him after deceit has occured. It is his responsibility to prove himself trustworthy again. He seems to have no intention of doing that. I think the original scenario was a set-up. He knew that was your way of verifying that he was at work when he claimed to be. And if he just started hiding the pay stubs for no reason, it would look suspicious. So he needed to set you up to justify hiding these from you. We tend to hide our actions because we either know they are wrong, or because we are embarrassed by them. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Bottom line, RT- why would you be with someone who would torture you on purpose?? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Well, here's the thing. If he lies all the time, and there is no basis for trust, then there is no relationship. If you spend you time getting back at him for lying to you, trying to control what he chooses to do by monitoring him rather than trusting him, then what is left of the relationship but remnants of what used to be good, and going through the motions of what has to be done every day? You can't DO anything about him lying. That is his responsibility. But you can take yourself out of a tailspin of a relationship... That's what I said. If this is what it's come to, there IS no relationship left. No mutual respect, no honoring each other. It's an endless cycle. He can blame her for snooping and pushing him away, she can blame him for lying and causing her to snoop. Link to post Share on other sites
Author random tears Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 And true to his word he has hidden every single one of his pay stubs since then. He also pulls the “I might be working tonite” scenario in which he comes home an hour later stating “they didn’t need me after all” yet he is not wearing his work clothes……strange. Lets just say that he did go to work. Well, he went with the intent of working that night so wouldn’t he be wearing his work clothes? Yet when he comes home AN HOUR LATER saying that they didn’t need him to work and he is still wearing his OTHER work clothes… I think I have a right to be suspicious…. Yes the pay stubs……thanks Devildog for confirming what I already thought to begin with….. Just to let everyone on in a little secret. This man is the MASTER of deception. He doesn’t just tell little white lies that are easily figured out. These are lies that are carefully sculpted and detailed and executed with usual precision…I say usual because it is very rare that I can catch him IN THE ACT of a lie UNLESS I am ever vigilant. He truly is a rare breed….And I know some of you are like “well why are you with him if he lies all the time, I wouldn’t be with him” I need to figure him out before I can leave him……its sick I know, but part of me wants to know that I did everything in my power to make it work….. Part of me also wonders if it is just one big game he is playing to reach one big ultimate goal. And figuring out this goal, this ultimate goal has been a long tedious process…. I guess THAT is what I need help on then……figuring out his ultimate goal… Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 you never will. Clinically speaking, pathological liars are quite often dishonest with themselves to the point that they have a disconnect with reality. He probably doesn't even know what his ultimate goal is. If he doesn't know, you'll never know. You're hanging on for some other reason. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 In fact....pathological liars can pass polygraph tests. They come to believe the lies they live by. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Here ya go: A new University of Southern California study suggests that the brains of some people are simply more wired for deception. In the first study of its kind, researchers have found that there are structural abnormalities in the brains of people who habitually lie, cheat and manipulate others. Pathological liars have more white matter and less gray matter in the prefrontal cortex of their brains, which is located right behind the forehead. October issue of the British Journal of Psychiatry. from: http://www.dailyvidette.com/media/paper420/news/2005/10/12/OtherCampus/Usc-Study.Indicates.Liars.Brains.Made.Up.Differently-1017297.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.dailyvidette.com Link to post Share on other sites
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