Guilt feelings

[Gebidozo]

My Mom is almost 90 years old, she lives alone in something like a retirement house. We’ve been living in different countries for 30 years now. I have an older brother who’s been living in yet another country for almost 40 years. The three countries are far from each other; my Mom and my brother are the closest, a 5 hour flight apart.

I’ve been calling my Mom twice daily for many years. I try to visit her once or twice per year. She still feels very lonely, and lately she’s been saying things to me that are hard to hear. Stuff like “I wish I had daughters instead of sons, sons just neglect their mothers”. Out of the blue, she’d say stuff like “I know you don’t really care”, “I know you’ll never come again” (even though I would, and I did, and I will), and so on.

The smallest fight can turn into accusations - if it’s a phone conversation, she’d tell me “don’t call me again!”; if it’s face to face, when I visit her, it’s “don’t come again!”, and so on.

The way she’s been treating my brother is even worse. Last time he visited her, she told him on the second day “why did you even come, you’re useless”. Then she’d cry literally for hours because he didn’t kiss her or hug her hard enough.

She’s had this kind of outbursts and temper issues ever since I remember myself, but lately it’s gotten worse. Some of the things she says are very hurtful. The above examples are in addition to an inability to accept a different opinion, which makes conversation very difficult. If I disagree with her on political or religious issues (which she loves discussing, and on many of which I do disagree with her), I have only two options: lie and nod, or ignore what she says and try to steer the conversation away from the topic. Any attempt to sincerely state my different opinion and engage in a normal conversation would invariably result in yelling on her side.

All that means that going to see her is in many ways an emotionally exhausting experience, both for my brother and for me. Normally, we’d “recharge” in our respective countries and then visit her again with renewed mental strength. However, the recent subtle (or not so subtle) guilt trips have produced an adverse effect. I tried telling her that, but she only got very offended; naturally, that conversation ended with a “if you don’t like me the way I am, find a different mother”, as many conversations with her do.

She is a very charismatic person, very talented, smart, educated, witty, funny, and charming when she wants to be. I don’t know how to make it clear to her that those outbursts are getting hard to bear, that the guilt has been piling up and leading to emotional exhaustion.

I feel deeply guilty and ashamed that I’m not as happy to see my mother as I used to be. I also feel very guilty for not living in the same country and only seeing her once per year or so. She’s very lonely, but people annoy her tremendously, she pushes them away even as they flock to her, and then complains about loneliness.

My brother, my fiancée, and my best friend are telling me to stop feeling guilty. They say it is my right to have my own life and pursue happiness in the country I currently live in. They say I should stop taking what my Mom says seriously and ignore her outbursts. I’ve been trying to do that, but it’s very hard to evoke positive feelings when I know that any time some biting remark might pop up.

What do you guys think? Am I really guilty, or should I work on getting rid of guilt feelings and stop taking my Mom’s hurtful words so seriously, like people close to me are telling me?

[Leihla_B]

My heart goes out to you, G. You're not wrong for feeling exhausted by an elderly mother who pushes you away by deliberately trying to make you feel lousy. I'd consider working with a counselor who's experienced in dealing with geriatric issues. They can help you to put this in a more beneficial context and can give you tools to cope and handle your interactions with Mom in ways that won't have you buying into guilt trips.

[Gebidozo]

57 minutes ago, Leihla_B said:

My heart goes out to you, G. You're not wrong for feeling exhausted by an elderly mother who pushes you away by deliberately trying to make you feel lousy. I'd consider working with a counselor who's experienced in dealing with geriatric issues. They can help you to put this in a more beneficial context and can give you tools to cope and handle your interactions with Mom in ways that won't have you buying into guilt trips.

Thank you, Leihla. I don’t think she’s doing it deliberately, she can be very affectionate and also has a very positive mindset sometimes. When she is like that there is no problem, but those mood swings are hard. Especially when she starts talking about how life has no meaning and her biggest wish is to die. 

[Gaeta]

It's emotionally hard to see our parents aging and then they lose their filter and say hurtful things. 

It's hard but you have to tell yourself that's what aging do on our brain. You continue visiting, you continue calling, don't take anything personally and remind her you think of her and love her. She will huff and puff but between calls she remembers those 'l love yous'.

Have you tried video calling instead of just calling? It makes a huge difference. Our parents are 10 hours away and my 3 siblings and I do a video call each weekend. Seeing each other live on video fights loneliness much more than just the voice. Parents also enjoy seeing their children together. A video call the 3 of you would certainly be like a balm on her heart. 

[ShyViolet]

When a family member/parent is toxic and verbally abusive to you, I would normally suggest cutting them off.  However, this is your Mom and she's 90 and she won't be around much longer.  Her behavior might be partially caused by age and cognitive decline.  One option is certainly to avoid seeing her.  However, the question is, if she were to pass away soon, would you feel guilty for the rest of your life about not seeing her much before she died?  Carrying around guilt for the rest of your life is an awful thing.  So just think about, if she were to pass away, what would make you have the least amount of guilt after she is gone?  Visiting her (even though you would have to deal with her negative behavior) or distancing yourself from her in her final days/years?

I'm not saying which one is right for you.  Only you can decide that.  There are lots of people in this world who go no contact with disrespectful and toxic parents, even when that parent is old and dying, and that is the right choice for them.  But only you can decide that.

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

It's emotionally hard to see our parents aging and then they lose their filter and say hurtful things. 

It's hard but you have to tell yourself that's what aging do on our brain. You continue visiting, you continue calling, don't take anything personally and remind her you think of her and love her. She will huff and puff but between calls she remembers those 'l love yous'.

Have you tried video calling instead of just calling? It makes a huge difference. Our parents are 10 hours away and my 3 siblings and I do a video call each weekend. Seeing each other live on video fights loneliness much more than just the voice. Parents also enjoy seeing their children together. A video call the 3 of you would certainly be like a balm on her heart. 

Yes, we videocall sometimes, but she says nothing can replace my presence and she misses me a lot.

To be honest, it’s hard even when she is nice and doesn’t say anything hurtful, because she keeps telling me how lonely she is and my guilt feelings just keep mounting.

I forgot to say that taking her to the country I live in is not an option, because the country she is in has amazing healthcare and social benefits and generally a much better environment for old people. In the country I’m in she’d just be an old foreigner without any rights or benefits, and constantly fearing a visa refusal.

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, ShyViolet said:

So just think about, if she were to pass away, what would make you have the least amount of guilt after she is gone?  Visiting her (even though you would have to deal with her negative behavior) or distancing yourself from her in her final days/years?

Definitely visiting her. I won’t distance myself from her. Thanks for putting this choice into clear words.

[Gaeta]

Have you spoken to the people in charge of the home where she is? Would it help if they knew she is fighting loneliness?

Where l'm from aged people experiencing loneliness is taken seriously and plans are put in place to ease that burden.

[Leihla_B]

17 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Have you spoken to the people in charge of the home where she is? Would it help if they knew she is fighting loneliness?

Where l'm from aged people experiencing loneliness is taken seriously and plans are put in place to ease that burden.

Yes. They can be very smart about this by asking for a lonely person's help to socialize someone else. They won't just throw them together; they'll ask the lonely person to join a meal or participate in something like a class or a craft, and then help the person they introduce by being kind to them and helping them to feel welcomed.

[Leihla_B]

On 11/20/2024 at 6:58 PM, Gebidozo said:

Especially when she starts talking about how life has no meaning and her biggest wish is to die. 

I understand. I would keep a running list of topics that enliven her--even if it's politics you disagree with or events from her past that she's told you many times. Then when she nosedives down this negative road, it might help to ask, "Mom, is this how you want us to spend our time together, or would you like to talk to me about something like 'x'?

PS: Don't argue her politics, just say things like, "Wow. I hadn't thought about it like that before..." Just give her the gift of being 'right'.

Also, play her music or stream comedians she loves. Share the moments with her and let her talk about her past experiences with the material.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Leihla_B

[Gebidozo]

It’s getting worse and worse. Her good days is when she simply says stuff like “when will you finally come?”, even though I was in her country in November, and plan to go again this summer. But if I reply “this summer”, she says “oh, summer, well, that’s too late, I’ll be dead by then”.

That’s on her good days. The bad days have been recently occurring more and more frequently. About 1/3 of all our video conversations consist of totally unprovoked crying, hysterical shouting, accusations of coldness and lack of love (“you’ve forgotten me! I know you don’t care whether I live or die!” - damn it, I’ve been calling her twice per day for the last 6 years, and visiting her twice per year), and, worst of all, suicidal statements (“I’d kill myself right now if I only knew how”, “I’ll just stop eating, it’s easy because nobody cares anyway”).

Horribly dark and negative statements about everything and everyone, from the weather to politics, morals, modern world, books, people - everything is fundamentally bad, life is boring and meaningless, and if I try to disagree, I’m just a young idiot (I’m nearing 50).

This isn’t a one time occurrence. This is constant, relentless, incessant bombardment of negativity. Every morning I need to steady my breathing before I pick up the phone and videocall her. Every evening, after work, I shudder at the thought of another impending guilt trip and assault of suicidal threats.

Just a reminder, she lives in a house where two caretakers visit her regularly, bring her cooked food, clean her apartment, manage her doctor appointments, take her anywhere she’d want to go. The house is full of people her age, most of whom are very nice, friendly, and have truly angelic patience with her. There is a family of friends, 5-6 people, who check on her and visit constantly. Medical care is completely free in her country. She doesn’t need to pay for anything and she has full social services available to her. None of that exists in the country I live in. She isn’t terminally ill or anything like that, though she is 89 years old.

I’ve seen how she treats other people, she pushes everyone away and spreads this negativity, but when she wants to she can be incredibly charming, fun, witty, and downright irresistibly adorable. The problem is that lately it’s been just the dark side. Before, it was about 50/50. Now, it’s 95% darkness with a little bit of light still left in her.

I don’t know how these traits coexist in one person, this drives me utterly crazy because she is very emotional and when she is fine she talks big and says very sweet things. Like, “lovebombs” me properly. Within the same day, she can leap from “You’re my sweetest, most dearest son, the light of my life, how I miss and adore you” from “I know what you really are, you don’t need to pretend you have feelings for me”.

My goodness, this sounds like a textbook description of a relationship with an emotionally abusive partner. But I’m talking about my mother. I guess breaking up with a mother is not possible.

This is just to vent, I know there is no easy solution here, but it helps when I just type this stuff and know someone will read it.

Edited March 20 by Gebidozo

[Acacia98]

Maybe talk to her doctor about these changes. One of the things that occurs to me is that she may be suffering from depression. The other possibility is cognitive decline as someone else indicates above.

When my mum does similar, it's usually an indication that something is not okay medically, e.g. thyroid issues

 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

Maybe talk to her doctor about these changes. One of the things that occurs to me is that she may be suffering from depression. The other possibility is cognitive decline as someone else indicates above.

When my mum does similar, it's usually an indication that something is not okay medically, e.g. thyroid issues

 

Spoke to the doctor long time ago, he already wrote in her file that she needs psychiatric treatment. The moment she found out about it she started yelling at me that I want to conspire to put her in a mental asylum.

[Gebidozo]

I feel I hit a mental and a spiritual low point today.

I’m beginning to hate my mother.

And I hate myself for having that feeling.

Today she started crying right away after picking up the phone. That has been happening a lot. She said again that life had no meaning. Then she told me “in my day, sons didn’t abandon their mothers like that”.

I said, “I’m not abandoning you, I go to visit you twice per year or whenever I can, and I videocall you twice every day”.

She said, “Those calls mean nothing, five minutes of pointless talking each time”.

At that point, I began yelling and screaming with such force that I literally had foam on my lips. I just screamed for several minutes, my throat got sore and I nearly lost my voice.

I don’t know what to do.

[Acacia98]

Would you consider getting counselling for yourself?

And is there someone you can talk to about what getting her psychiatric treatment would entail?

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

Would you consider getting counselling for yourself?

I’m sort of getting it. My best friend has studied psychology and he gives great advice. He told me that my mother’s behavior was toxic and that condoning it only prevents her from getting better. He said it wasn’t my job to make her happy, but her own. I know he is right, but those guilt feelings are too deep-seated…

 

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

And is there someone you can talk to about what getting her psychiatric treatment would entail?

She is about to undergo further psychiatric evaluation treatment. She’s been given some antidepressants for several months now, but actually they’ve been making her much more irrational and negative, so far.

[ShyViolet]

On 4/2/2025 at 3:13 AM, Gebidozo said:

 

At that point, I began yelling and screaming with such force that I literally had foam on my lips. I just screamed for several minutes, my throat got sore and I nearly lost my voice.

WHY are you engaging in this with her and doing this to yourself?  I need to ask why why why would you submerse yourself in this and engage in this toxic behavior, and stoop to her level.

She is very old, has cognitive decline and mental problems.  She acts irrationally.  You need to count your blessings that she lives in a different country from you and that you aren't stuck with the responsibility of actually living with her or taking care of her on a daily basis.  You have a good amount of separation from her, and yet you are keeping yourself tethered to this mentally.  You are letting her keep you in some kind of mental prison, when it shouldn't be this way.

WHY are you calling her twice a day?  That seems excessive, given the circumstances.  If I were you I would absolutely reduce the frequency of those calls to a couple of times a week.  Who cares if she rants that you don't care about her etc etc?  You know that it's just the ramblings of a crazy person and it's not true.

I have a father who is 81 now, he lives only one mile from me, but he has been abusive to me my whole life and likes to verbally abuse people, yell, curse people out, etc. I told him years ago, after I no longer lived with him, that if he ever does that to me I will be hanging up the phone immediately and he won't hear from me until he can act respectfully.  And I follow through.   I once didn't speak to him for 6 months.  So he really has cleaned up his act a lot and hasn't blown up at me in a long time. But at the same time I keep him at arm's length and I don't engage with him frequently.  I talk to him maybe every couple weeks.  

Your mother is probably not even lucid enough to understand this or accept a message like this, but the concept is the same.

If you are ever on a call with your mother and she starts screaming at you, acting like a crazy person, you should say "I cannot talk to you when you are acting like this.  I'm hanging up the phone." and then follow through.  Do it CONSISTENTLY.  Talk to her again later when she's calmed down.  The key is, don't engage in it.  

Seriously, detach yourself from this and don't let it get to you so much.  You have to have boundaries.

Edited April 3 by ShyViolet

[Gebidozo]

6 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

WHY are you engaging in this with her and doing this to yourself?  I need to ask why why why would you submerse yourself in this and engage in this toxic behavior, and stoop to her level.

 

Because when she says I abandoned her or something like that, I begin to feel very guilty. And it pains me deeply that she is so unhappy and that I’m the reason why…

 

6 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

WHY are you calling her twice a day?  That seems excessive, given the circumstances.

Because she’s been saying for several years now that my morning and evening calls are what keeps her alive, the reason why she still continues to live.

 

6 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You know that it's just the ramblings of a crazy person and it's not true.

That’s the thing, I don’t. Whenever she talks like this I begin to feel I’m a monster who is slowly murdering his own mother. It always takes some time to stop thinking like that and start feeling more or less normally again.

 

7 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

If you are ever on a call with your mother and she starts screaming at you, acting like a crazy person, you should say "I cannot talk to you when you are acting like this.  I'm hanging up the phone." and then follow through.  Do it CONSISTENTLY.  Talk to her again later when she's calmed down.  The key is, don't engage in it.  

Seriously, detach yourself from this and don't let it get to you so much.  You have to have boundaries.

That’s almost word for word what my best friend told me. I’ll try to follow through.

[ShyViolet]

4 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

That’s the thing, I don’t. Whenever she talks like this I begin to feel I’m a monster who is slowly murdering his own mother.

This is very irrational and I think you would benefit from therapy to deal with this.  It's like you are unable to stop internalizing her verbal abuse, and you are unable to establish boundaries.

[Gebidozo]

16 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

This is very irrational and I think you would benefit from therapy to deal with this.  It's like you are unable to stop internalizing her verbal abuse, and you are unable to establish boundaries.

Exactly, because it’s my mother. She’s been the most important person all my life and for many years her opinion on everything was like oracle to me.

Also, it’s not like she’s been like that all the time. She used to be less hurtful. And even she can be very affectionate and charming sometimes.

[ShyViolet]

17 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Exactly, because it’s my mother. She’s been the most important person all my life and for many years her opinion on everything was like oracle to me.

Also, it’s not like she’s been like that all the time. She used to be less hurtful. And even she can be very affectionate and charming sometimes.

Establishing boundaries doesn't necessarily mean cutting the person out of your life.  She has mental health issues now and her behavior is toxic, and you need to establish enough boundaries so that her behavior doesn't destroy your own mental health.  You need to learn how to have a relationship with her while at the same time detaching yourself from the dysfunctional behavior.