The Lonely 'Thing'

[riobikini]

Update.

 

I read through the posts in the thread NoFoolin' started, regarding accountability of our actions in the disintegration of our most recent relationship.

 

I posted my own response, and read those of other posters.

 

It occurred to me, as I was reading, how clearly we can see our mistakes, -only after our loss.

 

In some cases, letting go of the relationship was the best for both involved, -for others, it was more a matter of choosing not to work on the issues, -or, in some cases, simply not knowing how.

 

For others, like me, it was the regret of having more to give or say, and not giving it, nor saying it.

 

An afterthought, a question, really, is this: would trying harder, giving more, or saying those precious, unsaid things that you kept to yourself, really have made a difference?

 

I think the real regret, for myself, is not knowing whether they would have, or not.

 

It is well-known that, when we say certain things, -harsh words- they linger, doing damage forever, -and cannot be taken back, -only reconciled with the balm of love and turning our behaviour into a tool that can, hopefully, regain that lost trust, and attempt to heal the wound.

 

But, as far as the post-relationship state we are left in, the outcome seems both the same, and different, somehow, with not saying certain things that we should have said, -things that needed to be said that we choose to withhold, -I guess, for fear that they would, somehow, weaken us, or not be accepted, nor appreciated, in the way we might have offered them.

 

Was it pride or an acute, conscious sense of self-preservation and self-protection we hid behind in not saying certain things that could have, -maybe- been the only thing worth trying, that might have turned things around?

 

This doubt about the unsaid things is very heavy in my thoughts today, and I wonder how others deal with the same issue.

 

I welcome your posts on this subject.

 

-Rio

[notmakingsense]

An afterthought, a question, really, is this: would trying harder, giving more, or saying those precious, unsaid things that you kept to yourself, really have made a difference?

 

Unless you are a person who is not communicative in general (which is obviously not the case for you!!), I don't think that saying more would have made much of a difference.

 

Holding something precious back is a huge warning sign when a person who communicates well is doing the holding-back. I would think it means that there was something missing -- perhaps a lack of trust in the relationship itself, or a lack of trust that those words would have been received in a heart-felt way.

 

So, don't regret that you held things back. Instead, remember why you chose to hold them back in the first place.

[riobikini]

NMS,

 

Thank you.

 

Your insight is precise and is a good weapon against the doubt I feel.

 

But as you can tell, today is not a very good day for me.

 

-Rio

[notmakingsense]

Hang in there Rio -- you have an amazing intuition about what paths to take through the tricky forests that are our relationships, so I'm quite confident that you handled your situation in exactly the right way for yourself.

 

What is ironic is that I think I have the exactly opposite problem that you are now mulling over -- I think I did too much communicating!

[riobikini]

(Smile)

 

But it is difficult -and ironic- being such an advocate of communication, to then think that I, myself, might be guilty of failing to communicate.

 

How very human of me!

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

It's been a tough week, so far, for me.

 

I'm seeing Mr. Transition this week-end, -can't stand being alone this long without someone around.

 

I've spent far too much time over the last few days thinking about B**.

 

I've reached my limit, for now.

 

But my house is f*cking spotless.

 

(Smile)

 

...some of the men may be confused, but the women will know what I'm talking about.

 

-Rio

[Lishy]

Loneliness sucks! It really does!

 

I do not know what to say to you Rio All I can say is that we are all here for you - You are a strong woman, in touch with her feelings and you will be fine!

 

Chin up babes and lucky you having a bonk this weekend!

[jerbear]

I know about the home being spotless.

[notmakingsense]

I wish I could turn thinking of my ex into some productive energy -- my house is a f'ucking mess right now!

 

I think you need Mr. Transition over more often... but -- maybe that would the wrong tact if you are trying to prevent feelings from getting deeper for him?

[riobikini]

Lishy, what you said about my being strong has always been the primary reason I normally wind up helping myself.

 

(Laughing, -well, kind of)

 

It has always turned out, that, whenever I have a problem, it's difficult to find another who can actually absorb and comprehend the very thought that I, myself, might need to hear advice.

 

It comes as a complete surprise to a lot of people in my life when I am the one coming forward with the problem, -not the solution.

 

So I have learned to be selective in deciding which problem gets brought to the table.

 

That's one of the reasons why this forum has been helpful to me: we don't exactly know each other, and the odds of hearing more views are much better and I can bring to the table anything I want.

 

Yet, I realize that, after posting a mountain of advice to others, I may, still, wind up, for the most part, being my own sounding board again, simply because it appears I am chocked full of sound advice.

 

(Smile)

 

Not always.

 

But that's been par for the course of my life and I have always accepted that.

 

I posted recently to someone the old, almost cliche' saying that 'No man is an island'.

 

And it is true that none of us are.

 

No one was meant to live without the contact, and interaction, and sharing of ideas and emotions with other human beings.

 

Not a single one.

 

So, posting in this forum in this silly little thread of mine is my own personal sounding board where I interact with many of you, sharing ideas, and even emotions regarding our plights and circumstances, -that might, perhaps, inspire a little hope, or strength, or generate an unexpected turn of events, or change of heart or mind, in someone's life from just a few bits of random, everyday wisdom and change something for the better for someone.

 

So for me, it's still a win-win, -because one of those 'someones' turns out to be me.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

RE:

 

NMS: " I think you need Mr. Transition over more often... but -- maybe that would the wrong tact if you are trying to prevent feelings from getting deeper for him? "

 

But then it would be he, who would be spotless, er, -whatever.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Art_Critic]

But my house is f*cking spotless.

 

That's funny.. My house is spotless normally but if I'm going thru a break up I'm a pig...

[lexilas]

But then it would be he, who would be spotless, er, -whatever.

 

Rio - you're being a naughty girl :-)

 

Have fun this weekend.

[riobikini]

Lexilas:

 

Very.

 

(Smile)

 

Thank you, L, for checking in on me, -I'm looking forward to the week-end.

 

-Rio

[pandnh4]

It occurred to me, as I was reading, how clearly we can see our mistakes, -only after our loss.

 

In some cases, letting go of the relationship was the best for both involved, -for others, it was more a matter of choosing not to work on the issues, -or, in some cases, simply not knowing how.

 

For others, like me, it was the regret of having more to give or say, and not giving it, nor saying it.

 

An afterthought, a question, really, is this: would trying harder, giving more, or saying those precious, unsaid things that you kept to yourself, really have made a difference?

 

I think the real regret, for myself, is not knowing whether they would have, or not.

 

It is well-known that, when we say certain things, -harsh words- they linger, doing damage forever, -and cannot be taken back, -only reconciled with the balm of love and turning our behaviour into a tool that can, hopefully, regain that lost trust, and attempt to heal the wound.

 

hi rio, this is a very humbling and thoughtful topic...

from my personal experience, not only did trying harder not make a difference, it probably made things worse... there were times where i felt so desperate to fix things and make them work that i probably did some damage to the image that my ex had of me... i always continued telling her how much i loved her and how supportive i was but unfortunately it wasn't sufficient to make things better...

we had both said and done things that were regretable but sadly i was the only one willing to accept responsibility and work on them... when i went to seek help, bought books, and proposed ideas, she would acknowledge them but not join in... she just gave up... as my therapist tells me, there are so many issues that couples can work through together... but the key word is

*together*... some people just aren't sufficiently integrated - in mind, spirit, and emotion - to grow with another person and have a loving, lasting relationship...

the strongest ones are those who can look back, acknowledge their own mistakes and flaws, and have the courage and patience to work on them... those who choose to run are cowards who lack the strength to grow and are therefore incompatible with the other person...

[DogBrain]

Rio,

 

Let me tell you, I would love to run into you somewhere -the things you say and the attitudes you reveal resonate so strongly with me..

 

But - your question re things left unsaid.

 

When I realized that the so-called NSA encounter involved feelings in both of us that were anything but casual, I asked her... "What is this? What are we doing? Where is this going?"

 

because I thought it was just play and there is NO way I am going to let play turn serious without being sure that both parties understand that boundaries are about to fall...

 

She replied "Let's just see what happens."

 

Now, I am no fool - that answer was completely inappropriate for two middle-aged adults. As I have done many times in the past when presented with such an attitude, I should have gotten dressed and left. I would have been better off. <grin>

 

But she was so special, so exciting, so wild, so different, that I ignored my own common sense.

 

Then, when the other signs began to appear, I rationalized them away. I would take my cues from her, I thought - but I see now that I had turned off to all the cues.

 

Weeks later she told me she had fallen in love and I said we have to talk, we have to find a way to make this work, blah, blah, blah and she said we would talk the next time we got together...

 

which never happened.

 

I wonder still where we would be if she had allowed herself to express her vulnerabilities, if she had risked the discussion. Would we have zipped up and walked away from each other? Possibly. Would that have been as devastating as what she did? No way - because we both would have had a role in the decision, we both would have had a measure of control that would make the emotional "reconciliation" that would have left me sane.

 

I knew the right thing to do and I correctly recognized the time to do it - and I failed myself. When I made the decision that it was worth the risk to take my "cues" from her behavior, I denied my own instincts.

 

I paid heavily for that error and I will never ever make it again - but considering my new attitude and my age, I will probably never benefit from what I learned.

 

Be that as it may, all of us - even when we are living with brains hopped up on the love hormones - know when something isn't right. A 1/4" stone in the shoe can render you lame if you do not deal with it as soon as you beome aware of its existence. Being honest and open isn't enough unless both parties commit to and exercise the behavior. I could. She couldn't. She gets to run on and I will be limping for a while.

 

DogBrain

 

(and so help me, everytime I get into a conversation with a lady who talks like you do, the words "Are you Rio" will enter the conversation!!!)

[riobikini]

RE:

 

Pandnh4: "..the strongest ones are those who can look back, acknowledge their own mistakes and flaws, and have the courage and patience to work on them... those who choose to run are cowards who lack the strength to grow and are therefore incompatible with the other person..."

 

 

Pandnh4,

 

I agree with your statement, posted above.

 

And, if you ever find yourself looking for someone to begin a serious relationship with, you really do want it to be with someone like the strong, relationship-savvy person you describe first in your post.

 

That kind of person has learned from his/her mistakes and put the knowledge to good use, and carries on past the hurt and disappointment, having reconciled it in a healthy way. That kind of person has a real headstart on being good 'relationship material'.

 

The second person you describe is totally the opposite, -not having learned from, nor dealt with- a single difficult issue from past failed relationships, and will, likely, come dragging all their left-over emotional baggage, personal problems, and dysfunctional patterns of behavior with them into any new relationship they begin.

 

Trouble is, -they just look so damned normal, to begin with!

 

Query: Shouldn't they be made to wear signs?

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

DB,

 

Thank you for everything you said.

 

(Smile)

 

It's obvious that you are an intelligent and caring man.

 

'Ditto' on the wishful, friendly meeting up with one another.

 

You never know.

 

Take Care, -and watch out for those stones.

 

('nother Smile)

 

Yours,

-Rio

[Tarzan]

Be true to yourself first and the rest is more forthcoming.

[riobikini]

RE:

 

Tarzan: " Be true to yourself first and the rest is more forthcoming. "

 

Proof you can learn alot in the mighty jungle.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[pandnh4]

bwuahahahaha!!!

that was hilarious...

thanx for making my morning, rio... =)

[riobikini]

(Smile)

 

Pandhn, -glad I made your morning...but I doubt if there are enough signs in the world.

 

Now, an update.

 

It's funny how you can be the 'dumper' (although forced to be the one who does it), and still wind up feeling like the 'dumpee', isn't it?

 

All throughout this relationship I felt like an 'aside', -a convenience- who was just there when he found the time for me.

 

So I guess that's why I feel this way.

 

I confess to something that many people do, -especially women: although I deleted most of them, I kept alot of the emails. Why?

 

Because I treasured every word from him.

 

I did.

 

Plain and simple.

 

In keeping a few of the ones that were especially endearing or had some other value, I find myself doing something I would not recommend anyone doing, as it is very painful to read them.

 

But as I look over them, I know I am searching for answers, -clues- that might help me in understanding why things turned out this way.

 

It might even, (I hoped), help me to understand some of my own behavior and reactions to some of the events that led to my decision to make the break.

 

Sometimes, as obvious as it seems to others what is going on in a relationship, it still escapes our own line of sight, though.

 

I am still coming to terms of why I could not 'fix' all of this, myself, and never let it come to such a negative ending. And I realize that fixing things has always been a high priority with me, sometimes to my own injury.

 

This time, I let it go before there was more water under the bridge, so to speak, that would just be more difficult to deal with.

 

So I am kind of proud of myself for learning a little bit of that lesson, although it's just as difficult, -except the results will probably benefit me in the long run, rather than defeat me, as before.

 

Do I still miss him? Yes.

 

Am I sure that seeing him would not bother me in the least? No.

 

Do I feel less heartbroken and have all the feelings for him lessened? Absolute 'no'.

 

Did I make the right choice? Answer: under the circumstances, -'yes'.

 

Yes, -because it is not right for anyone, who knowingly, begins and carries out a relationship with someone who is ready for one and who falls in love, then finds herself/himself in commitment-phobia hell.

 

It's one of the cruelest forms of punishment.

 

And it should simply not happen.

 

-Rio

[cal gal]

I came to a very clear conclusion tonight while making dinner....

 

I am existing and have been in this state for six months. I need to be living, but I'm not!

 

It seems too darn difficult to move forward right now.

 

I have had to be strong for my kids, and make tough decisions on my own, and learn to live without hubby after 20 years.

 

I need to start moving and I don't know where to start!

 

I am not alone and I don't feel lonely or even depressed, I just feel stuck....

[riobikini]

CalGal,

 

'Struck', -as in 'struck with reality'.

 

That's why I believe that dealing with the death of a partner is somehow easier: there's an overpowering sense of knowing that you absolutely cannot change things.

 

It humbles you, and makes you realize exactly what you are really in charge of, -and not.

 

'Struck' -as in being faced with the harshest kind of circumstances which simply do not allow for telling yourself pink ice cream lies, any longer.

 

I know.

 

It's a new kind of existence.

 

After the initial shock and hurt, I'm sure that, for you, it's a somber feeling, -and frightening, at times.

 

I felt those feelings, as well, with the death of my second husband, -but not quite in the context you are, perhaps, feeling them with your divorce. There is a huge difference between the two.

 

As I write this I realize something important, -throughout my own life, I have been faced with many types of emotional pain (and recovered in a reasonably healthy way) that others probably only experience a limited number of times.

 

It occurs to me, in having that thought, that the lack of having those experiences could be part of the reason some people seem unable to value the emotion of love, as well as other emotions.

 

Maybe their experiences have not caused a particular development, maturity, and appreciation for the emotion to the same degree as myself (or others who read this).

 

With that perspective, can we hold them as responsible for not valuing the relationship as we do?

 

I wonder.

 

Still, there is common decency to be considered: whether or not they can actually value the emotion you are feeling or not, does not release them from that, -even a "thank you" is universal, even an "I'm sorry" is taught, and even children know the difference between cruelty and kindness.

 

I married the first time when I was very young.

 

The two of us took care of each other, protected, and supported each other, and created a life that was simply a platform from which we both grew and could later enter the mainstream of a more sophisticated world, -without one another.

 

But there was respect and trust, and a particular kind of fierce loyalty and love between us. We were each others' greatest fan- and when it came time to leave that nest, and give our lives more depth and finally live past our 'childhood', we didn't say "goodbye", we just said "If you ever need anything...."

 

And we meant it.

 

My second husband was older, wiser, -a true gentleman- and acted as very much the teacher in my life.

 

I still owe him so much.

 

He helped me prove my capabilities, and led me to see things about myself that I -no doubt- would never have known.

 

To this day, I am thankful for all he did -and, at times, I find myself missing that kind of supportive strength and insight, and there seems to be no one who has quite the knowledge and expertise he possessed as a natural trait.

 

When he died of a sudden heart attack, I felt as if the world actually quaked a little and I felt as if the quiet and emptiness would kill me, too.

 

I didn't die, -I kept moving and breathing, -but I think that was only because of his imparted influence and the strength he had passed on to me.

 

I never thought I would love anyone, again.

 

At least, -not romantically.

 

But I did more than survive , I actually grew.

 

Sometimes, I think God just lets you grow to a certain strength to allow you to move to another level of strength and depth, later on.

 

I was going through the motions for awhile after his death, and had begun to feel just a little stronger, when my closest sister was killed.

 

I experienced my first panic attack, -having never known how frightening one could be- wanting to breathe but just struggling with the physical mechanisms spurred by the emotions that seemed to want me not to.

 

So I learned empathy of those who get double-whammied with tragedy.

 

I still survived.

 

Not having a husband as confidante and not having my closest female friend, my sister, to talk to, -I was lost, but I kept moving and kept doing what I was supposed to.

 

Maybe, I was becoming wiser, maybe I was growing, -maybe- but I, sometimes, I just felt as if I was more tired....and I was getting older,too.

 

My two children, sons, from my first marriage were grown -and gone, by now- and I was truly alone.

 

I worked all the time and my life seemed boring, empty, and hopeless.

 

So I opened a business.

 

It became my identity because I had nothing else.

 

I was missing something and I didn't want to face what it was, -it was too painful to think about.

 

I was not dating, there was no one close to me, and I had no life, except for the business, which I tied myself to, on purpose, almost 24/7.

 

One day I woke up -in a greater sense- and decided I was running too far away from the lessons I had learned from my experiences and had plenty to give to someone, -but there was no one around.

 

So I created them.

 

Without going into a complicated explanation, I decided to be a mom again.

 

I added two children to my family, -no partner needed.

 

We lived very happily for nearly six years and then I married again.

 

A mistake.

 

It ended after only three years and the fallout was dealt with as best as I could, given the undisclosed circumstances.

 

So, Calgal, -I guess their are two points to be recognized from all this: facing life's circumstances is never sure in the sense that reality will always be something we desire to confront and have the tools ready and sharpened to deal with, and that all our experiences are 'life-building' ones -either a 'negative' or a 'positive' for us, depending on how we put what we have already learned to use.

 

The second point is that, unless someone has had real-life experiences which take in greater tragedy, and situations dealing with more, and deeper human emotions, you can't expect them to comprehend, nor appreciate, nor value them to the degree that we, ourselves, are able.

 

But, if we have to hold ourselves responsible for what we know, shouldn't we also hold them responsible for what they have learned, as well?

 

-Rio

[cal gal]

Rio-

 

Thank you so much.

 

I always appreciate your perspective and wisdom.

 

I did say STUCK not struck, but that is okay. I do now need to figure out how to motivate myself to move forward in a positive direction.

 

You are a kind gal, thanks!