Are races are equal in intelligence?

[consfused girl]

For what Tony explained for " Intelligent vs Smart" thread, I realize that this is a topic that gets people's emotions running high, but i'm cursious

 

Btw, my question is : what is the evidence that races are equal generally in intelligence?

 

Most of the inf I have seen deals with evidence of inequality, and the possible refutation of such evidence

 

What about positive evidence? For example: a study of adopted kids that show they have on average the same cognitive abilities, regardless of their race, would be evidence.

 

My question is what such studies, etc, are there out there?

[Artlover]

What does adoption have to do with it? Is this a nature versus nuture question? Now I'm confused.

For what Tony explained for " Intelligent vs Smart" thread, I realize that this is a topic that gets people's emotions running high, but i'm cursious Btw, my question is : what is the evidence that races are equal generally in intelligence?

 

Most of the inf I have seen deals with evidence of inequality, and the possible refutation of such evidence What about positive evidence? For example: a study of adopted kids that show they have on average the same cognitive abilities, regardless of their race, would be evidence. My question is what such studies, etc, are there out there?

[Tony T]

YOU ASK: "what is the evidence that races are equal generally in intelligence?"

 

There is no evidence and there are no conclusive studies that races are equal in intelligence. Studies on the subject are broken down into demographic, regional, background and other categories.

 

Persons with similar upbringings, educational opportunities, encouragement, home environment, etc. seem to be, on average, equal in intelligence. Until recent years, not many persons of different races were privy to the same type of educational or home environment.

 

Povery and ignorance has always begotten poverty and ignorance.

 

This was not the case prior to the sixties, when court-ordered busing forced those of difference races into the same schools. African American groups, such as the NAACP, fought for equal opportunities in education because studies showed that Black children from schools in predominantly Black areas received inferior schooling and tested lower on intelligence scores that their White counterparts in other parts of town.

 

Mixing the races in schools (integration) has shown that, in general, Black children have been able to improve their scores on intellgence assessmen exams significantly.

 

What this shows, basically, is that intelligence has more to do with encouragement, motivation, opportunity, the quality of education, environment, etc. than it does race. People who grow up in the ghetto, are home schooled by unqualified parents, who aren't encouraged to study or read, etc. are not nearly as likely to score well in the area of intelligence than others afforded greater opportunities and status in those areas.

 

There are scientists who feel they can prove that African Americans are genetically inferior and they seem to have evidence that caucasians evolved from the Black race, given skull features, etc. However, those hypotheses have not been supported by fact.

 

Environmental and opportunity factors seem to be the most important components in leveling the playing field where intelligence is concerned.

[Artlover]

Perhaps I missed that last thread, but all of those factors you mentioned, in my opinion, have more to do with knowledge or education, versus intelligence.

 

Intelligence is what's measured in an IQ test that can be taken at 5 (not that I necessarily place a high value on these tests). I have relatives that scored in the genius category and were accepted into mensa, yet had never gone to college and had parents who were ambivalent, at best, towards their educations. Yet, many people who have graduated from college, even exceptional schools, might have slightly above average intelligence or just average even, but have had vast exposure to books/art/culture at an early age. And the resources to enjoy a privileged education. Or perhaps they're just excellent test takers.

 

There are intelligent and not so intelligent people in every race (and it seems to me to have little with what schools one attends or even how much money a person ends up making). There are absolute geniuses (according IQ tests) doing time at Rikers Island. The idea that there are differences based on race alone is ludicrous. By the way, my "genius" relatives are Black.

YOU ASK: "what is the evidence that races are equal generally in intelligence?"

 

There is no evidence and there are no conclusive studies that races are equal in intelligence. Studies on the subject are broken down into demographic, regional, background and other categories. Persons with similar upbringings, educational opportunities, encouragement, home environment, etc. seem to be, on average, equal in intelligence. Until recent years, not many persons of different races were privy to the same type of educational or home environment. Povery and ignorance has always begotten poverty and ignorance. This was not the case prior to the sixties, when court-ordered busing forced those of difference races into the same schools. African American groups, such as the NAACP, fought for equal opportunities in education because studies showed that Black children from schools in predominantly Black areas received inferior schooling and tested lower on intelligence scores that their White counterparts in other parts of town. Mixing the races in schools (integration) has shown that, in general, Black children have been able to improve their scores on intellgence assessmen exams significantly. What this shows, basically, is that intelligence has more to do with encouragement, motivation, opportunity, the quality of education, environment, etc. than it does race. People who grow up in the ghetto, are home schooled by unqualified parents, who aren't encouraged to study or read, etc. are not nearly as likely to score well in the area of intelligence than others afforded greater opportunities and status in those areas. There are scientists who feel they can prove that African Americans are genetically inferior and they seem to have evidence that caucasians evolved from the Black race, given skull features, etc. However, those hypotheses have not been supported by fact. Environmental and opportunity factors seem to be the most important components in leveling the playing field where intelligence is concerned.

 

[Tony T]

You are correct. Intelligence is defined as the ability to learn and understand or the ability to deal with new and trying situations.

 

That is not the definition I felt the poster had in mind and I answered accordingly. You are right in what you have written.

 

However, I must say that no matter now intelligent a person may be, he or she will not be considered so by the greatest number of persons if he or she has not had the opportunity to engage that potential to any meaningful measure.

 

An intelligent person who is uneducated is about as useless as an automobile without an engine, in my opinion.

 

I apologize if what I have written was offensive. However, I do feel a lot of intelligent people have been given the opportunity to engage and actualize that intelligence into a productive energy due to opportunities the laws have opened up to minorities and other disadvantaged.

 

I also grant you there are intelligent people of all races who, beyond that potential, are quite stupid.

 

I am reminded of a clip from "The Wizard of Ozz" as she was conversing with the scarecrow.

 

DOROTHY: "You say you want a brain. But how could you talk if you don't have a brain?"

 

SCARECROW: "Well, Dorothy, a lot of people without brains do an awful lot of talking."

 

DOROTHY: "You are certain right about that."

[champagne]

My theory on this subject is that human beings are human beings. We can evolve or stay in one place. It does not have anything to do with race. It's more along the lines of peoples natural ability to adapt to their surroundings. If you are surrounded with negativity you become negative. That is unless you have the desire to be more than that. Same with knowledge. Minorities are definately not more or less smart than non-minorities in our country. It's what you choose to do with yourself. Some people fall victim to a ghetto. Some people thrive to achieve. Others stay in one place, some go far. It's all about the individual, not the race. And by you even asking this makes me wonder where exactly where you are intellectually as a human being. I can't see any tests that will actually prove which race is smarter. There will be statistics and that sort of thing, but we live in a white majority country and we all know where the statistics around here will end up. So again, it's not the race, it's the person.

What does adoption have to do with it? Is this a nature versus nuture question? Now I'm confused.

[Artlover]

No offense taken. I also agree with what you have said. Most people will not see intelligence unless it is packaged in a certain way. The relatives I mentioned before (my mom and my uncle) are from a different generation and they didn't have the same opportunities I've been blessed with. They were both raised during the 50's and early 60's. My mom was bused. My uncle was not. College was out of the question for either of them, but they both were invited to be a part of mensa (and are two of the brightest people I know).

 

I, on the other hand, have an above average IQ, but couldn't buy my way into mensa if I wanted to (not that I want to). Yet, I have a degree from a prestigious university. So, there you go.

You are correct. Intelligence is defined as the ability to learn and understand or the ability to deal with new and trying situations.

 

That is not the definition I felt the poster had in mind and I answered accordingly. You are right in what you have written. However, I must say that no matter now intelligent a person may be, he or she will not be considered so by the greatest number of persons if he or she has not had the opportunity to engage that potential to any meaningful measure. An intelligent person who is uneducated is about as useless as an automobile without an engine, in my opinion. I apologize if what I have written was offensive. However, I do feel a lot of intelligent people have been given the opportunity to engage and actualize that intelligence into a productive energy due to opportunities the laws have opened up to minorities and other disadvantaged. I also grant you there are intelligent people of all races who, beyond that potential, are quite stupid. I am reminded of a clip from "The Wizard of Ozz" as she was conversing with the scarecrow.

 

DOROTHY: "You say you want a brain. But how could you talk if you don't have a brain?"

 

SCARECROW: "Well, Dorothy, a lot of people without brains do an awful lot of talking."

 

DOROTHY: "You are certain right about that."