asked a girl if she was available on Saturdays or Sundays to go out for coffee: is her response a sign of disinterest?/rant

[tazz4]

I've been on a Facebook dating page for several months now. When I first joined I made a post with my photos and my dating profile of what I was looking for and this cute girl from the group added me as a friend(I know she's real because my friend knows her) so of course I message her and we talk. I can't remember that convo very well. However I stopped messaging because her messages were infrequent and I took it as a sign as disinterest

Several months later I post my profile again. Unexpectedly she reaches out to me again. I apologized because I told her I thought she wasn't interested. But I told her I still am if she is and she says she's interested.

So we text back and forth for a bit and then I finally ask her if she's free Saturdays or Sundays because I'd love to take her out for coffee.

She tells me that she might have a flight this Sunday for work. 

Shouldn't she have suggested this Saturday to go out on a date or a different day instead if she was actually interested??? Or does this mean she's not interested??? That's all she left me with. So I asked her about other days and am waiting to hear back. I could be getting ahead of myself but I'm not sure. My friend who knows her says not every girl follows up and that it isn't necessarily a sign of disinterest. But she may be saying that to make me feel better.

I'm just getting tired of this constantly happening. Call me a bitter incel but it pisses me off to no end how all these guys get women effortlessly and treat them like total garbage, yet I at least TRY to be a decent human being(everyone I know tells me I'm a great human being, I'm not trying to be cocky) but I can't even get ONE girl I like to like me. I've done all the self improvement stuff and found hobbies etc. People tell me I'm good enough but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of it. I'm also not saying that being a good person makes me a hero or special, but still.

I guess this is the struggles of a guy who's petite and under 5 foot 8. I really don't know anymore. Feedback welcomed. Thank you for your support as always.

I also just hate that I'm 33 and still don't even know what sex is like. I have yet to have a hookup, fwb, or relationship with anyone I find attractive and I'm wondering if it will ever happen. I'm just hoping it will be my turn to be happy soon. I find it unfair how guys who are garbage piles of human beings get what they want because they look like models and make a lot of money.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, tazz4 said:

Call me a bitter incel

Well, you’re behaving like one.

 

1 hour ago, tazz4 said:

it pisses me off to no end how all these guys get women effortlessly and treat them like total garbage

Women aren’t objects, you don’t “get” them. Those women freely choose to be with those guys. Most women choose to be with attractive men, it’s their right and it has nothing to do with you.

And yes, a woman might sometimes choose to have a fling with a morally dubious, yet attractive guy, for her own pleasure. She would probably dump him if he really treats her “like total garbage”.

But I’m sure it’s mostly the imagination of your envy and jealousy. I’ve known several legitimate “Casanovas”, guys who have huge success with women. None of them treats them “like garbage”.  Do you want to know what is the difference between them and you?

They know how to make women feel desired and beloved; you only seem to care about how to make yourself desired and beloved.

They respect and understand women; you keep throwing tantrums and get angry over everything they say or do.

They don’t possess envy, jealousy, rage, and other unattractive emotions; you’re displaying them time after time in your threads.

They couldn’t care less if someone sleeps with more women than they do; you’re completely obsessed with that.

They see romantic relationships, whether short or long, casual or serious, as something that occurs spontaneously and mutually; you’re obsessed with finding some rigid rule sets that don’t exist.

They see the choices that women make for what they are, free choices of free human beings; you feel entitled to love and appear to think that women owe you something.

They are being themselves, because they love themselves; you constantly try to be somebody else, because you don’t love yourself.

 

 

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, tazz4 said:

I guess this is the struggles of a guy who's petite and under 5 foot 8.

🐮💩.

At least three of those great “womanizers” whom I know personally are your height or smaller. None of them has any muscles worth mentioning.

 

1 hour ago, tazz4 said:

Feedback welcomed.

You know, I don’t really believe you there. We’ve given you quite a lot of feedback. We posted long, elaborate replies. We gave you sound, solid, insightful advice. But you mostly choose to ignore it.

 

2 hours ago, tazz4 said:

People tell me I'm good enough but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of it.

So you basically think that women are obliged to sleep with you because you’re “good enough”. Exactly the feeling I was getting from your rants.

Well, sorry to rain on your parade, but I don’t think that you’re good enough. Not yet. You will be when you drop this sort of entitlement. And when you start seeing women as human beings who make their choices, not as objects that you “get” or some kind of prizes that are given to you for good behavior. But even then women will still not be obliged to have sex with you. Or with anyone else. They will have sex with whomever whey want to, as it should be. And you better grow up and accept that.

[tazz4]

8 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Well, you’re behaving like one.

 

Women aren’t objects, you don’t “get” them. Those women freely choose to be with those guys. Most women choose to be with attractive men, it’s their right and it has nothing to do with you.

And yes, a woman might sometimes choose to have a fling with a morally dubious, yet attractive guy, for her own pleasure. She would probably dump him if he really treats her “like total garbage”.

But I’m sure it’s mostly the imagination of your envy and jealousy. I’ve known several legitimate “Casanovas”, guys who have huge success with women. None of them treats them “like garbage”.  Do you want to know what is the difference between them and you?

They know how to make women feel desired and beloved; you only seem to care about how to make yourself desired and beloved.

They respect and understand women; you keep throwing tantrums and get angry over everything they say or do.

They don’t possess envy, jealousy, rage, and other unattractive emotions; you’re displaying them time after time in your threads.

They couldn’t care less if someone sleeps with more women than they do; you’re completely obsessed with that.

They see romantic relationships, whether short or long, casual or serious, as something that occurs spontaneously and mutually; you’re obsessed with finding some rigid rule sets that don’t exist.

They see the choices that women make for what they are, free choices of free human beings; you feel entitled to love and appear to think that women owe you something.

They are being themselves, because they love themselves; you constantly try to be somebody else, because you don’t love yourself.

 

 

Saying that I don't care about making a woman feel desired is an assumption. I never said or implied that. Maybe try being in my shoes living with bipolar, ocd, adhd and going lonely your whole life before judging me. it's miserable. I've done everything I could. I never said ALL these men treat women like garbage but I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons those relationships don't last. it doesn't matter who I am now. I'm obviously not going to be with any woman I want to be with until I put on more muscle and make more money it seems like. and since you're so hung up on the phrases I've used let's say "be with a woman" instead of "get." my therapist even said I'm deserving of a relationship so forgive me if I feel like I deserve one too....

[tazz4]

10 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

🐮💩.

At least three of those great “womanizers” whom I know personally are your height or smaller. None of them has any muscles worth mentioning.

 

You know, I don’t really believe you there. We’ve given you quite a lot of feedback. We posted long, elaborate replies. We gave you sound, solid, insightful advice. But you mostly choose to ignore it.

 

So you basically think that women are obliged to sleep with you because you’re “good enough”. Exactly the feeling I was getting from your rants.

Well, sorry to rain on your parade, but I don’t think that you’re good enough. Not yet. You will be when you drop this sort of entitlement. And when you start seeing women as human beings who make their choices, not as objects that you “get” or some kind of prizes that are given to you for good behavior. But even then women will still not be obliged to have sex with you. Or with anyone else. They will have sex with whomever whey want to, as it should be. And you better grow up and accept that.

never implied they were objects either. the other classic assumption that everyone makes. sorry for being a human being who wants sex or once to feel loved. I'm sorry but I am NOT going to accept being lonely for the rest of my life....I rather be dead at that rate. and I'm wondering where all these magical couples that people bring up are. I don't see any guy like me with any woman i find attractive unless it's once in a blue moon. 

Edited January 10 by tazz4

[basil67]

Yeah, you're sounding like a bitter incel.   There are many good men out there, and by denigrating those guys, you're the one who comes off looking bad.

It's unfortunate that your friends are telling you that you're a great human being, because if you had it all together you'd be getting dates.  And 5'8 is not short!  Heck, my 5'7 daughter is in a serious relationship with a guy who's 5'6

I was holding back on being honest earlier, but since nobody else is being honest with you, I will be.  I know your mental health issues aren't your fault, but they would be a dealbreaker with a lot of women, as would living at home aged 33.   And because you naturally wouldn't lead with these things, there's gotta be other stuff going wrong.  It's likely related to your social skills

[tazz4]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Yeah, you're sounding like a bitter incel.   There are many good men out there, and by denigrating those guys, you're the one who comes off looking bad.

It's unfortunate that your friends are telling you that you're a great human being, because if you had it all together you'd be getting dates.  And 5'8 is not short!  Heck, my 5'7 daughter is in a serious relationship with a guy who's 5'6

I was holding back on being honest earlier, but since nobody else is being honest with you, I will be.  I know your mental health issues aren't your fault, but they would be a dealbreaker with a lot of women, as would living at home aged 33.   And because you naturally wouldn't lead with these things, there's gotta be other stuff going wrong.  It's likely related to your social skills

usually if a guy is under 6 feet and is dating a somewhat objectively pretty woman he has some muscle to make up for it or a good paying job. that's how it is in New York City at least with some rare exceptions. I don't think this is confirmation bias. If I see a cute girl on Facebook and find a picture with her boyfriend it's always the same thing. I don't know why you're saying it's unfortunate that my friends say I'm a good person. My mental health issues aren't something I would reveal right away. I'm not even ashamed or generally embarrassed of having them. They just make life a living hell and no amount of meds and therapy and coping skills seem to help. I had to be hospitalized for several months because I wanted to k*** myself and some days I still do. I don't mean to write this just to get attention or just to make you feel bad about me. I wish I was making this up.

I feel pretty f***ed. it's going to be years until I can move out of my parents house and I want to date before then. if not then I rather just not be alive anymore. I'm tired of seeing all these happy couples and wishing I knew what it was like. 

[Gebidozo]

37 minutes ago, tazz4 said:

Maybe try being in my shoes living with bipolar, ocd, adhd and going lonely your whole life before judging me.

Nobody is judging you. You’re asking for advice and I’m giving it to you to the best of my ability and understanding. If you don’t like my advice, don’t take it.

How do you know what kind of mental diseases I have, or used to have? How do you know what my life is, or used to be? Why are you assuming that only you have problems?

I could also start whining too about how I grew up with various psychological disorders. How I was married and divorced three times. How my son was taken away from me, how he doesn’t really want to know me now that we can finally talk to each other. How I struggled with intense self-hatred and thought the world would be better off with me being dead. And so on, and so forth. But I won’t do it. Because self-pity is a terrible thing, like a highly destructive, addictive drug.

You’re lonely mainly because you choose to feel that way. And because you feel that the world owes you something, that you’re entitled to something and deserve something. Well, you don’t, and none of us do. And there are millions or maybe even billions of people who feel lonely or otherwise unhappy in their lives, for various reasons. And then they work on themselves and get better.

 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, tazz4 said:

My mental health issues aren't something I would reveal right away

Yes, I acknowledged this in my previous response to you.  Nevertheless, it would be a dealbreaker.   I didn't comment on your income because I'm not familiar with US wages, but yes, it's most definitely going to be a problem if you don't earn similar to the ladies you wish to date.   

I worded the bit about your friends badly....What I meant to say is in their efforts to build you up, there are things they aren't telling you.  And to be honest, while I do understand your frustration, your previous incel style rant does not make you sound like a good person.   And there's the thing of you not knowing what's suitable for wearing to a cafe.  A man should know this stuff at your age.   

Then there's your hypocrisy.  You complain that the cute women don't want to date you because of your size.  And then you turn around and reject women because of their size.  Don't be complaining to me about being rejected because of your size when you do the exact same thing to others. 

 

 

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, tazz4 said:

I don't see any guy like me with any woman i find attractive

Of course, because you have a very unattractive attitude to women - bitter, resentful, entitled, impatient, angry. Also, you are way too envious. Why would an attractive woman date someone who feels the way you do?

I wouldn’t even want to hang with you as friends if all I was going to hear from you were jealous complaints. That would make me feel uncomfortable. Why do you think that women should be obliged to put up with this?

The successful guys I mentioned look like you, probably less good than you. One of them is considered conventionally ugly, he has this Abraham Lincoln kind of face if Abraham Lincoln were more closely related to a bonobo. He has no muscles to speak of and very little money. Try to figure out yourself why women like him but not you.

Edited January 10 by Gebidozo

[tazz4]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, I acknowledged this in my previous response to you.  Nevertheless, it would be a dealbreaker.   I didn't comment on your income because I'm not familiar with US wages, but yes, it's most definitely going to be a problem if you don't earn similar to the ladies you wish to date.   

I worded the bit about your friends badly....What I meant to say is in their efforts to build you up, there are things they aren't telling you.  And to be honest, while I do understand your frustration, your previous incel style rant does not make you sound like a good person.   And there's the thing of you not knowing what's suitable for wearing to a cafe.  A man should know this stuff at your age.   

Then there's your hypocrisy.  You complain that the cute women don't want to date you because of your size.  And then you turn around and reject women because of their size.  Don't be complaining to me about being rejected because of your size when you do the exact same thing to others. 

 

 

in regards to my original question in the original post about the texting, is it a sign the girl isn't interested?

[tazz4]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Of course, because you have a very unattractive attitude to women - bitter, resentful, entitled, impatient, angry. Also, you are way too envious. Why would an attractive woman date someone who feels the way you do?

I wouldn’t even want to hang with you as friends if all I was going to hear from you were jealous complaints. That would make me feel uncomfortable. Why do you think that women should be obliged to put up with this?

The successful guys I mentioned look like you, probably less good than you. One of them is considered conventionally ugly, he has this Abraham Lincoln kind of face if Abraham Lincoln were more closely related to a bonobo. He has no muscles to speak of and very little money. Try to figure out yourself why women like him but not you.

before I went into that rant, does it sound like that woman I was texting is disinterested?

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, tazz4 said:

before I went into that rant, does it sound like that woman I was texting is disinterested?

If I were interested, I would have said "I can't do Sunday, but I could do a different day".   So I would imagine she's OK to be your friend/acquaintance, but not a romantic interest

[tazz4]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Of course, because you have a very unattractive attitude to women - bitter, resentful, entitled, impatient, angry. Also, you are way too envious. Why would an attractive woman date someone who feels the way you do?

I wouldn’t even want to hang with you as friends if all I was going to hear from you were jealous complaints. That would make me feel uncomfortable. Why do you think that women should be obliged to put up with this?

The successful guys I mentioned look like you, probably less good than you. One of them is considered conventionally ugly, he has this Abraham Lincoln kind of face if Abraham Lincoln were more closely related to a bonobo. He has no muscles to speak of and very little money. Try to figure out yourself why women like him but not you.

I believe you about the couples you mentioned but it seems extremely rare that those kind of guys end up with the women I'm referring to.

[tazz4]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

If I were interested, I would have said "I can't do Sunday, but I could do a different day".   So I would imagine she's OK to be your friend/acquaintance, but not a romantic interest

I'm super confused as to why she reached out again. she said she was interested.

[basil67]

1 minute ago, tazz4 said:

I'm super confused as to why she reached out again. she said she was interested.

People can be confusing.  It's part of life....

[Gaeta]

After she said she might have a flight Sunday did you ask her when would be a good time for coffee?

What l'm thinking is she got back in touch with you, then she spoke to your commun friend, and he may have said something that made her change her mind.

[tazz4]

8 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

After she said she might have a flight Sunday did you ask her when would be a good time for coffee?

What l'm thinking is she got back in touch with you, then she spoke to your commun friend, and he may have said something that made her change her mind.

I don't think that's it because this friend said she was happy for me and hear for it/in full support. Me and this friend have a decent relationship. I also told this friend about this confusion and she said to wait for the girl to respond after I suggested a different day.

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, tazz4 said:

She said to wait for the girl to respond after I suggested a different day.

That's all you can do meanwhile you keep swiping on the app and talk to other women.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, tazz4 said:

in regards to my original question in the original post about the texting, is it a sign the girl isn't interested?

No idea. I never used online apps for dating, the whole concept confuses me to no end. I can’t imagine people “matching” each other based on such superficial and criteria as photos and profiles and lists of hobbies. I can never say if a woman is interested or not interested before I have a date with her and look her in the eyes. Also, I can’t get interested in an online profile, either.

If I were in your situation, I imagine I wouldn’t quit until I get a clear answer on what day we meet in person. If she said “I can’t day X”, I’d immediately ask “How about day Y?”, and so on. Either we set up a date right there and then, or she keeps refusing to meet me on all the days of this week and the next one. Then I’d know she is definitely not interested and drop it.

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, tazz4 said:

I believe you about the couples you mentioned but it seems extremely rare that those kind of guys end up with the women I'm referring to.

I have no idea what women you’re referring to, hopefully not the kind that falls for tall, muscular guys who treat them like garbage? Why on Earth would you want to date such women?

If you’re simply referring to beautiful, sexy, interesting, attractive women, then it’s not rare at all that charismatic, talented, passionate men who aren’t conventionally handsome end up with such women. At least in my social and professional circles, nobody pays much attention to the looks of the men, it’s all about personality.

Maybe it’s just my milieu, which is mainly arts, academia, education, and business. I don’t know very much about other social strata, to be honest.

[tazz4]

2 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

No idea. I never used online apps for dating, the whole concept confuses me to no end. I can’t imagine people “matching” each other based on such superficial and criteria as photos and profiles and lists of hobbies. I can never say if a woman is interested or not interested before I have a date with her and look her in the eyes. Also, I can’t get interested in an online profile, either.

If I were in your situation, I imagine I wouldn’t quit until I get a clear answer on what day we meet in person. If she said “I can’t day X”, I’d immediately ask “How about day Y?”, and so on. Either we set up a date right there and then, or she keeps refusing to meet me on all the days of this week and the next one. Then I’d know she is definitely not interested and drop it.

she mentioned 3 places that she's at once a month and then mentioned how she got to go to Florida and was so happy. this was her reply when I suggested we could go out Saturday or another week. doesn't make any sense to me. like why message me again and say you're interested and then beat around the bush? getting tired of the games.

Edited January 10 by tazz4
more descriptive

[tazz4]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I have no idea what women you’re referring to, hopefully not the kind that falls for tall, muscular guys who treat them like garbage? Why on Earth would you want to date such women?

If you’re simply referring to beautiful, sexy, interesting, attractive women, then it’s not rare at all that charismatic, talented, passionate men who aren’t conventionally handsome end up with such women. At least in my social and professional circles, nobody pays much attention to the looks of the men, it’s all about personality.

Maybe it’s just my milieu, which is mainly arts, academia, education, and business. I don’t know very much about other social strata, to be honest.

it can be superficial. idk how to approach women in person which is why I use the apps 

[tazz4]

1 hour ago, Gebidozo said:

I have no idea what women you’re referring to, hopefully not the kind that falls for tall, muscular guys who treat them like garbage? Why on Earth would you want to date such women?

If you’re simply referring to beautiful, sexy, interesting, attractive women, then it’s not rare at all that charismatic, talented, passionate men who aren’t conventionally handsome end up with such women. At least in my social and professional circles, nobody pays much attention to the looks of the men, it’s all about personality.

Maybe it’s just my milieu, which is mainly arts, academia, education, and business. I don’t know very much about other social strata, to be honest.

and those men make various salaries?

[tazz4]

8 hours ago, Gaeta said:

After she said she might have a flight Sunday did you ask her when would be a good time for coffee?

What l'm thinking is she got back in touch with you, then she spoke to your commun friend, and he may have said something that made her change her mind.

well I told her it sounds like she gets to travel a lot and asked if we should go out Saturday or the following week instead. she didn't answer the question about rescheduling the date but said how she loved traveling and how it's harder to do with cats(we spoke about cats since I had one in my photo)

I honestly find it really obnoxious when women play mind games with me. this is part of the reason I get bitter. like why reach out to me in the first place? Just say you're not interested or changed your mind. assuming she just wants attention like a lot of women do online...