I feel like I'm worse than her ex

[the searcher]

Good morning! I am dealing with an issue that I consider to be retroactive jealousy, but it may also have to do with the nature of my relationship.

I have always considered myself an introvert, so when I was younger I would always try to meet women online (at the time, social media wasn't as prominent). I couldn't just go out and meet women in the real world (bars, parties), but I could talk to them on the computer.

That's how I met the woman who is now my wife: online. We chatted for a long time online (years) before we met in person. I knew general things about her love life (she had been in three serious relationships, for example).

We got along really well in person and, after a few weeks of getting to know each other better, we finally kissed and started a relationship that later turned into a marriage and has lasted to this day.

What started to bother me was that I later learned that, before we met, she had sex with five men on the first night (two of them became her boyfriends and three were just one-night stands and nothing more).

I know I shouldn't do this and I'm not proud of it, but I couldn't help but compare my relationship with her to the relationships she'd had before. After all, before we actually started dating, I had to talk to her for years, and after our first in-person meeting, it took months for us to have sex.

I felt less valuable than those men from her past. It was as if she liked me less, as if I was less worthy, as if I was completely incapable of awakening in her the sexual desire that others had awakened. With others, she made up her mind quickly, but with me... And that eats away at me.

As I said, I'm not proud to think this way, but in truth, I'm not devaluing my wife, I'm not saying that she doesn't have value because she had sex on the first night with several men. What I'm saying is that I don't have value, because if I did, she would have done the same to me.

It may be a crooked way of thinking, I know, but there are ramifications. I keep imagining that I'm not good enough, that I'm not adequate, that I don't have the necessary self-confidence.

So I enter a huge sea of comparisons in which I compare myself to her ex-boyfriends. I know who they are, because we live in the world of social media, and she hasn't spoken to any of them for years, but I can't help but imagine that I'm inadequate, worse than them.

Every time I talk to her and she doesn't listen to me; every time I hesitate to make a decision; every time we disagree and end up doing it the way she prefers, I get the impression that it's because I don't have the necessary confidence for day-to-day life, that I'm not confident like the men in her past. Again, I repeat: I don't think my wife is a bad woman. I think I'm inept, useless. It's a feeling I can't shake. I went to therapy for years and it didn't help.

[basil67]

She chose to marry you.  And as her husband, you feel less valuable than those guys she (presumably) is no longer in contact with.

Are you doing therapy?  If not, I suggest you start

[the searcher]

38 minutes ago, basil67 said:

She chose to marry you.  And as her husband, you feel less valuable than those guys she (presumably) is no longer in contact with.

Are you doing therapy?  If not, I suggest you start

Yes, I am. I've doing therapy for two years. It didn't help, unfortunately.

[Andy_K]

3 hours ago, the searcher said:

As I said, I'm not proud to think this way, but in truth, I'm not devaluing my wife, I'm not saying that she doesn't have value because she had sex on the first night with several men. What I'm saying is that I don't have value, because if I did, she would have done the same to me.

You're going to have to let that go. There are any number of reasons why she'd wait longer with you, and although it's possible those reasons could be that she didn't value you as much as other guys, it's just as likely to do with things that were going on insider her head at the time.

A better question to ask yourself, is have you attained that value now? Do you feel like she genuinely values and desires you, now that she has gotten to know you? Or do you secretly feel like she's settling?

[Gaeta]

I find it bizarre that you think women value more men they have hook ups with. If I come across a man that I judge relationship material you bet I will not jump in bed right away with him. I would be too afraid he judges me as easy. On the other end if I come across a man that's interested in a hookup and I feel like it, and I don't give a heck if he calls me again, ya sure I'll go ahead with it. 

You think sex is in the front row for all of women's decisions because men put a lot of importance on sex, we are wired differently. Find me a woman on here that will agree with you that if they sleep with a man fast it's because they value him more as a man. 

Edited January 10 by Gaeta

[Gebidozo]

Taken out of context, in itself, the speed at which a woman is going to bed with a man has little to do with how much or how little she values him. There are simply too many other factors at hand. Women aren’t machines, they have moods and do unpredictable things, they grow and change, they respond differently, their values and worldview change, and so on. In short, there is no direct correlation between how much a woman likes and respects a man and how quickly she sleeps with him.

That said, from your descriptions it does sound like you don’t feel valued. Your wife’s previous sexual habits are hardly the only reason. You feel that she doesn’t love you as much as you hope she would. If you felt her passion and love for you now, you wouldn’t care how quickly or slowly she slept with her exes. You’d be too happy being with her. That means that there are other signs, other symptoms that make you feel lack of love and respect. What are those?

For what it’s worth, personally I wouldn’t date a woman who needs to be courted for years and then needs months before she agrees to have sex with me. Her reasons are irrelevant, it’s a question of incompatibility. If it takes such a long time for a woman to sleep with me, then either she is not passionate enough compared to me, or isn’t passionate enough about me. Both cases would be dealbreakers. 

[the searcher]

15 hours ago, Andy_K said:

You're going to have to let that go. There are any number of reasons why she'd wait longer with you, and although it's possible those reasons could be that she didn't value you as much as other guys, it's just as likely to do with things that were going on insider her head at the time.

A better question to ask yourself, is have you attained that value now? Do you feel like she genuinely values and desires you, now that she has gotten to know you? Or do you secretly feel like she's settling?

I believe she likes me, more than that: she loves me, but it seems like a calm and peaceful feeling. She was much more enthusiastic about them, something I can even see in the way she talked about them. In a way, I am a kind of final comfort after the adventures - or at least that is how I feel.

I look at their faces on social media. One of them seems more handsome than me; certainly more charming. What else did she see in him? The broad shoulders? The other has a determined look, that sense of purpose and conviction in life that I never had - without a doubt, she liked that about him.

I have vivid mental images of what supposedly happened. I imagine the place, the bar. I imagine both of them drinking, I can clearly see her smile that I know so well. The physical touch, the contact, the looks, small conversations, both of them walking together to the car, and, finally, the sexual intercourse itself. All of this appears in my mind like a film, detailed.

They were better, more attractive, than me. I would even say that she "respected" them more than she respected me.

[the searcher]

13 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

Taken out of context, in itself, the speed at which a woman is going to bed with a man has little to do with how much or how little she values him. There are simply too many other factors at hand. Women aren’t machines, they have moods and do unpredictable things, they grow and change, they respond differently, their values and worldview change, and so on. In short, there is no direct correlation between how much a woman likes and respects a man and how quickly she sleeps with him.

That said, from your descriptions it does sound like you don’t feel valued. Your wife’s previous sexual habits are hardly the only reason. You feel that she doesn’t love you as much as you hope she would. If you felt her passion and love for you now, you wouldn’t care how quickly or slowly she slept with her exes. You’d be too happy being with her. That means that there are other signs, other symptoms that make you feel lack of love and respect. What are those?

For what it’s worth, personally I wouldn’t date a woman who needs to be courted for years and then needs months before she agrees to have sex with me. Her reasons are irrelevant, it’s a question of incompatibility. If it takes such a long time for a woman to sleep with me, then either she is not passionate enough compared to me, or isn’t passionate enough about me. Both cases would be dealbreakers. 

Maybe I do feel a little unadmired in my day-to-day life. She may, in fact, be less enthusiastic than she once was - and especially than she once was with other men.

That enthusiasm, that breaking of barriers, her boldness in meeting men and going all the way with them... All of this is summed up, synthesized, quintessentially, in the fact that she went to bed with them promptly, filled with desire and enthusiasm. And she went on to have relationships with two of them. One of those relationships, which began with sex on the first night, lasted for years. So I don't think she was the type to save love, sex and more serious feelings for people she took longer to get to know. The demand for time, effort and patience was directed only at me, because certainly (this is how I feel) I am not as good, as attractive, as deserving of enthusiasm, as those other men.

[Gebidozo]

15 minutes ago, the searcher said:

She was much more enthusiastic about them, something I can even see in the way she talked about them.

15 minutes ago, the searcher said:

They were better, more attractive, than me. I would even say that she "respected" them more than she respected me.

4 minutes ago, the searcher said:

The demand for time, effort and patience was directed only at me, because certainly (this is how I feel) I am not as good, as attractive, as deserving of enthusiasm, as those other men.

Whether that is objectively true or you just feel like that, you seem to be suffering too much. It’s not normal to be in a relationship with someone whom you doubt so much. If your wife makes you feel so miserable, why did you marry her in the first place? 

[the searcher]

4 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

Whether that is objectively true or you just feel like that, you seem to be suffering too much. It’s not normal to be in a relationship with someone whom you doubt so much. If your wife makes you feel so miserable, why did you marry her in the first place? 

I love her. I love her every day and have always loved her since before our first kiss. I dream about her to this day. I know every gesture, intonation and strand of her hair. My life after the beginning of our relationship took on a color it had never had before. That's why I married her and I don't regret it. And that doesn't change everything else I described.

[Acacia98]

28 minutes ago, the searcher said:

They were better, more attractive, than me. I would even say that she "respected" them more than she respected me.

Why do you think she chose to be with you if all these other men in her life were "better" and "more attractive" than you? If she's happy with you and is not cheating on you, then surely your relationship with her meets some deep-seated need/gives her a sense of fulfilment that she wasn't getting anywhere else?

Are you capable of analyzing/talking about your relationship objectively for a few minutes to give us a sense of what she sees in you? Please set aside the self-doubt for now and try to do that.

 

[Gebidozo]

6 minutes ago, the searcher said:

I love her. I love her every day and have always loved her since before our first kiss. I dream about her to this day. I know every gesture, intonation and strand of her hair. My life after the beginning of our relationship took on a color it had never had before. That's why I married her and I don't regret it. And that doesn't change everything else I described.

Well… Then I don’t know what to tell you, man. Even if I had one tenth of the suspicions that you’re having about my partner, all love would have evaporated long time ago. I don’t understand how it is even possible to love someone who you think doesn’t love you back the same way as you do.

But if you’re fine living with these doubts, this uncertainty, this misery, this perceived humiliation, lack of love and lack of respect, if you’re actually willing to permanently live with all that without fixing anything - it’s your choice, of course. 

[Gebidozo]

2 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Why do you think she chose to be with you if all these other men in her life were "better" and "more attractive" than you?

The OP feels that she felt more strongly about her exes. He perceives her choosing him for marriage as “settling”. Whether that is objectively true or just the OP’s imagination, it’s not a normal situation.

Personally, I’d never accept a woman who’d be with me for anything else but passionate love. I’d never be with someone who’d “settle” for me, who’d choose me mainly for convenience and stability and a calm life. Most men I know feel the same way.

[Foxhall]

Sometimes you just have to accept your limitations and not dwell on them,

you mentioned about a long build up online and being awkward socially, in that sense you were never likely to sleep with her on the first date,

it just did not come as easily to you,

Perhaps there is a sense of inadequacy that you dont have as much of past history- an ego thing that you have not bedded a string of beauties-  sex without love is more of an ego thing it is ultimately meaningless in the long run.

For a guy thats awkward by his own admission you have ended up doing alright being married to a woman who was clearly desired by others,

accept what you have and take it as a victory in life.

[MsJayne]

You need to let this go. It's quite likely that by the time she met you she'd learned that first date sex usually doesn't lead to lasting relationships, and she wanted a relationship with you to last so she changed her approach. Unless she's repeatedly bringing up past relationships and all but showing you the video you're wasting energy obsessing over nothing. 

[basil67]

@the searcher  Have you ever considered that she realised that first date sex was a mistake, and so she changed her method so she could find a guy of quality?

[the searcher]

2 hours ago, Foxhall said:

For a guy thats awkward by his own admission you have ended up doing alright being married to a woman who was clearly desired by others,

accept what you have and take it as a victory in life.

You're right about that. I fully understand my social limitations and admit that at times I doubted that I would be able to build a meaningful long-term relationship. But unfortunately, it's a bitter personal victory.

 

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

@the searcher  Have you ever considered that she realised that first date sex was a mistake, and so she changed her method so she could find a guy of quality?

Yes, there is some sense in what you wrote. She herself even mentioned, generically, that our cautious approach was the best choice, because it ended up giving us a more solid relationship. However, I don't know if that's true or just an empty rationalization. And even if it is true, my heart still hurts.

[basil67]

47 minutes ago, the searcher said:

Yes, there is some sense in what you wrote. She herself even mentioned, generically, that our cautious approach was the best choice, because it ended up giving us a more solid relationship. However, I don't know if that's true or just an empty rationalization. And even if it is true, my heart still hurts.

I've had some regretful first date sex, and I'm sure she has too.  Do you really think you're worth less than those mistakes?

[ShyViolet]

I'm really not seeing your logic.  She married you; she didn't marry those other guys.  She is married to you now.  How could she value you less than people she was with in the past, if she married YOU and is with you now?

How does she act towards you on a daily basis; does she act enthusiastic about your marriage and act like she is happy to be with you?  Or is she doing something to make you feel that she's not that into you now?

14 hours ago, the searcher said:

I look at their faces on social media. One of them seems more handsome than me; certainly more charming.

WHY are you looking at her past partners on social media?  This is unhealthy and you seriously need to stop.

How did you even find out their social media?  Does she still talk about her past partners with you?

14 hours ago, the searcher said:

I have vivid mental images of what supposedly happened. I imagine the place, the bar. I imagine both of them drinking, I can clearly see her smile that I know so well. The physical touch, the contact, the looks, small conversations, both of them walking together to the car, and, finally, the sexual intercourse itself. All of this appears in my mind like a film, detailed.

You are obsessed with this to a really unhealthy and bizarre level.  You may have some other mental health issues going on.  If you've tried therapy and it didn't help you, maybe you just didn't have a good therapist.  You need to try a different therapist and you really do need professional help.

[Lotsgoingon]

Sounds like you don't feel valued by her. Also you might have fallen victim to crude definitions of masculinity. 

What does she say when you raise this issue with her? I don't think she can fix your insecurity here, but I wonder if you've talked to her about what you're feeling. You might do best to get to a counselor to work this out without her. 

Ideally you feel treasured by her, close to her and you stand and live in that connection. For some reason your brain is disconnecting from the present and going to these issues of her previous sex life.

Do feel she's attracted to you? I get that she loves you. I'm just wondering if you feel like she's physically attracted to you?

 

 

[the searcher]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

I've had some regretful first date sex, and I'm sure she has too.  Do you really think you're worth less than those mistakes?

Take one of the men she had sex with on the first night, for example: he's a guy she once described as "charming" and with whom she had a relationship that lasted almost three years. He was the one responsible for ending the relationship. So I don't consider the relationships she started with one night of sex to be "mistakes." They were real relationships that ended for reasons unrelated to the sex on the first night.

 

3 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

How does she act towards you on a daily basis; does she act enthusiastic about your marriage and act like she is happy to be with you?  Or is she doing something to make you feel that she's not that into you now?

She seems to be happily married, and I believe she is. Her actions indicate this. However, she sometimes seems to be overly confrontational with me. Her behavior regarding sexual desire, moreover, is not the most enthusiastic. It is a combination of situations that make me believe, to be honest, that she does not see me as man enough.

 

3 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

WHY are you looking at her past partners on social media?  This is unhealthy and you seriously need to stop.

How did you even find out their social media?  Does she still talk about her past partners with you?

She doesn't talk about men from her past, except very rarely. The last time she mentioned an ex was in a quick conversation a year ago. She's quite respectful in that regard. I have no complaints. I look for them on social media because, I admit, I have obsession issues. Usually, on sleepless nights, I go after them. I shouldn't, but I can't always help it.

 

45 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

What does she say when you raise this issue with her?

 

46 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Do feel she's attracted to you? I get that she loves you. I'm just wondering if you feel like she's physically attracted to you?

We’ve talked about this a few times (not often, to be honest; I don’t want her to feel pressured or judged, so I don’t bring it up as much as I’d like). On the occasions when we have, she’s said that having sex on the first night with the other men wasn’t what she considers ideal; she’s also said that she thinks it’s best to take it slow, little by little, to give the relationship time to solidify, which is what we did. What I can say for sure is that she doesn’t have much sexual desire for me. Once we get close, alone, and start having sex, she seems quite interested, but in everyday life, her desire is close to zero. And I can tell you that I’m not ugly. In a room with 10 randomly chosen men, I would certainly look better than 6 of them. What I think is that, in her eyes, I really don’t have the masculine characteristics that made her so quickly surrender to other men in the past. Maybe it’s my behavior, maybe it’s some specific trait of my appearance. The fact is, I feel inferior to the men in her past.

[basil67]

22 minutes ago, the searcher said:

She seems to be happily married, and I believe she is. Her actions indicate this. However, she sometimes seems to be overly confrontational with me. Her behavior regarding sexual desire, moreover, is not the most enthusiastic. It is a combination of situations that make me believe, to be honest, that she does not see me as man enough.

There are many, many reasons a woman's sexual desire may wane. 

Did she want lots of sex with you when you met her vs how often does she want sex now?   

Aside from the issue of your insecurity, how is your relationship?  How often do you talk of these insecurities with her?  If you do talk about it, do you ever accidentally shame her with the language you use?  How old is she?  How busy is she?  How is her health in general?  Has she had her hormones tested?   Do you have kids?  How old are they?

Edited January 12 by basil67

[Lotsgoingon]

What I can say for sure is that she doesn’t have much sexual desire for me.

My guess is that this is what is really bothering you--and I understand why. I was in a relationship once with a woman who wasn't attracted to me. I could certainly feel that. I shared this suspicion with her a few times. She always denied it. Finally at the end admitted that she didn't have that much attraction to me, not enough for a solid romance.

This woman had dated a lot of jerks, and she thought I was pretty open and honest--so she WANTED to be attracted to me. And it wasn't that she had zero attraction to me. 

Honestly, I say get out of a relationship if you don't feel like the person is truly attracted to you. That absence is driving your insecurity about her previous life, not the previous partners themselves. If you deeply felt her attraction, your mind would be able to stay in that space without caring what she did in the past. 

[spiritedaway2003]

It actually doesn't seem like it's a new issue with your wife, but one that had always been with you.  The way you think about this situation would have cropped up with whomever you marry, unless that person has a clean history (you're the first boyfriend). 

EVERY relationship is different.  You cannot compare her exes relationship to your relationship.   Clearly they all didn't work since they are all now her "exes". 

The real crux of the issue is whatever that is causing you to view yourself as low value /work is entirely on you.   If you're confident that you're a good match, you wouldn't have these doubts.  In fact, what/when she did what  with any of her exes is actually y none of your business because you weren't even in the picture then.  Some people can handle "history", others can't.  You'd fall into the latter because you're already comparing.   This means that it doesn't matter who it is you're in a relationship with, you're always going to compare.   If this thinking persists, you'd have a higher odd of self-sabotaging your relationship.  She CHOSE you; the rest doesn't matter. 

I'd recommend that you find out the reason why you're feeling this way (her past is cannot be changed).  Why it is bothering you now all of a sudden or are there current issues that is causing you to have these doubts now?

From my vantage point, the source of the low self-worth is something you need to figure out for yourself.  That's what you need to figure out in therapy, not so much why you're bothered by your wife's past.

 

Edited January 12 by spiritedaway2003

[basil67]

OP, there's a book called Where Did My Libido Go by Dr Rosie King.   It covers all kinds of causes for woman's low libido and has a lot of solutions.  Of course, your wife would have to be willing to work through it, and you would need work with her if some of your actions/inactions are contributing to the problems.   Marriage counselling could also be involved if you're having trouble with finding agreement on how to move forward.