Not ready to be done forever. but it's not looking great

[jrm79]

Hi all,

I am MW (45) who has a long term off and on relationship with a MM (51).   This will be kind of long as the overall relationship spans over many years. I will try to keep it organized lol.

Met him when I joined a ROTC type program not affiliated through school when I was 13. He was 19. We saw each other once a week and some weekends for a few years until I was 16. At the time I had already been assaulted by 3 boys my own age, my father was an alcoholic...and my mother (who is a narcissist but I didn't know then) was a very cold type person who didn't do much to give comfort. MM was unmarried at the time...and even though clearly an inappropriate age difference...something about him always made me feel very safe. He was supportive and kind and a good leader. By the time he was 21 he was already working in emergency services and the best I can explain him was...he's a helper. A good guy. He never made a move on me. That being said I felt what I recognized later as a very extreme chemistry between us. We had occasional times alone where it was very intense but he was never going to be inappropriate and I was too scared to do anything. Around the time I was 16 there was some light flirting. We had a camping trip with some other people from our group and I was struggling on the hike and he held my hand. We slept next to each other with a couple others in a tent and I caught him staring at me. Whatever it was, this wasn't going to lead anywhere at the time and eventually he showed up with a girlfriend. Wasn't long after he left the group to work full time and I lost interest as a chunk of other people I enjoyed quit.

Around age 19-20 I found someone he worked with on AIM and sent my screen name to him through them. He messaged and we caught up some. Found out he had married the girlfriend from before. I had that internet courage and told him that I had had a huge crush on him during our time together. His reply was "why didn't you ever tell me?" which...to me was pretty obvious. What could have even happened at the time and he went off and got a girlfriend so...that was that. He mentioned me coming up and seeing him sometime (we lived 45 minutes apart at the time, 90 minutes now). At the time I was confident confessing the crush but NOT seeing him. I had very little self confidence and no experience with guys even still.

Fast forward to 2004.. I was in a relationship for a couple years with a really immature guy 4 years younger than me and kind of over it. I messaged MM and again we went right back to that dynamic of him telling me he "still had his cheat card" and me being....just not ready to make a move. I guess it gave me confidence to know he was still interested but I was still in that mindset of "cheating is wrong and even though I could leave my boyfriend...he's MARRIED. So again it fizzled.

In 2005 I started a new job where I met my now husband. He is 19 years older and everything my boyfriend wasn't as far as caring, supportive, didn't act like a child...and I fell hard. It took a few years but we ended up together and then married in 2009. We had our first child in 2014 and second in 2018. My second birth experience was hard...mentally, physically, emotionally and my husband was just very....absent. I think the age difference caught up to us with the responsibilities of 2 children and he no longer really had the capacity to be that same attentive person at the time when I needed that the most. It has not gotten better and we have not been intimate since the conception of our now almost 7 year old. We have grown into more of a partnership and even there we struggle at times as he just does not take my needs seriously. I have discussed marriage counseling because we are going to have a tough time making it through the teenage years with our boys if we can't work better together...and he agreed and I think it will help a lot but the intimate part of our relationship is over IMO and while I am ok with that for us...it left me feeling very lonely and unsatisfied.

In 2020 just prior to the pandemic starting, an amazing friend of mine passed away unexpectedly. It was extremely difficult for me but with 2 kids, pandemic, and we had just bought a new house 10 minutes away and were moving and I was having to manage all the details of that...I was just not processing my grief in any useful way. I had also just recently found out my best friend was seeing a boyfriend, that her husband at the time had agreed to...and seeing that "normalized" in a way really sparked my interest in reaching out to MM again.

In April 2020 I sent a hello to a work email I found for him. He wrote back a couple days later and we enthusiastically caught up and were joking and very communicative. I started lightly flirting to send the message that though I was married...I was still interested in the potential for an intimate relationship between us. MM was clearly receptive....but I noticed this time around that I was definitely the aggressor and he was a lot more reserved in how he would respond. I thought ok....he is now in management at 2 separate emergency services org...he's still with the same woman...no kids...he has clearly established this life that suits him....he's a grown man now and trying to have some self preservation in our communications. I get it.

As time went on...it definitely became more of a relationship. I would refer to him as handsome and other pet names and he would respond in a way I knew he was ok with It but he kept things "safe" on his side. At times this threw me off really bad...especially as I escalated things with occasional pictures...more steamy emails etc...but whenever I would spiral and say "I am just not sure what your interest level is because xyz" he would respond by telling me "I am just not a big communicator...all is well, you have no reason to stress." When I started sending pictures he gave me his personal email and told me "don't take this the wrong way because I am flattered by your messages but we need to move this off work email". OK...fine by me. I thought maybe HE will start playing ball but he would not.

This, along with the fact that we talked about meeting up but it was always this "once things calm down" led to occasional fights. One particularly heated one at 5am back and forth through email...where he was saying he knew I wanted to see him but with him working 90 hour weeks dealing with emergency management in pandemic times plus a new training program he was unable to make commitments to meet in person and he apologized that it was shitty. He said he appreciated my words and feelings and he knew it must feel like I was being blown off but it was how it was. In his defense....I'm savvy with social media and the things he told me about with his job were easily confirmable. I knew he wasn't lying but I had that constant "if he wanted to he would" mantra in my head....which now I kind of wish I'd ignored and just trusted him.

We always came back around to kindness with one another though...and we had some good convos through Christmas and some times when it felt like he was finally being vulnerable with me...as his dad was in the hospital around Christmas. I was supportive as I have been there, having lost my dad in 2017 after he had a lengthy hospital stay. It felt like we were kind of in a good place again and with vaccines in the works I thought...if I just hold on a little while longer maybe things will improve.

Fast forward to the last day we spoke. It was the year anniversary of my friends death and I was up very early unable to sleep. I sent him a message wishing him luck on a training he had that day. He wrote back quickly saying it had been cancelled due to a lengthy call the night before for a lot of staff....and he was off. I decided to throw it out there that I was free that day....maybe we could meet up. He responded that "the roommate was home so it was a no go". We exchanged a couple more emails and I told him to enjoy his weekend. I spent the day on a high over his reference to her (who he had literally never mentioned before) as a roommate.

The following Sunday night I found out that my friends wife...who was just an absolutely wonderful person I had hoped to spend more time with post pandemic....had killed herself on the anniversary. I had tried to call her that day but was in a way relieved that she hadn't answered because I knew how hard that talk would have been. I felt gutted to find out she was gone. I wrote to him...to tell him what had happened and I went to bed.

A couple days passed and I hadn't heard from him. That wasn't abnormal for him at all...and especially when emotions were involved...he had a tendency to take time to process. I used an email tracker on my chrome so I knew he had seen the email. I spiraled quite a bit...understandibly I was in a real shitty mental place. I kept thinking I should not have told him...in his job he has to see horrible things...he probably has a way to compartmentalize things so it doesnt eat at him and here I am asking him to support me and I didn't know if that was a thing he was ready to do. I wrote him again telling him it was ok...that I loved him anyways. I had told him previously I was falling for him...he didn't run. He told me not to be insecure in this....I didn't think it was an issue but this was the first time I said it in full I love you form. Again no reply. I freaked out and apologized for saying I loved him. Basically...I just melted down. He was gone.

I know it wasn't easy for him. He kept opening my emails over the next couple weeks. I had written him a couple weeks post ghost that I was in the ER with kidney stones and trying to distract myself from the pain I wrote to him...that I hate how things had gone down between us and apologized...wishing that things had been different. He opened that email 9 times in the following hour. I know he WANTED to respond...but he would not let himself.

Around April 21 I finally started therapy. 4 years later I am in a much better place. My marriage is still lame as explained before but I have healthy ways of dealing with that. I am on lexapro and that helps a lot as well.

I still love MM. Painfully. I send about 4 emails a year to him. I let him know what I am up to, that I am doing well...if anything interesting has happened....I have explained that I was going through a lot and between that and pandemic....I should not have reached out when I did...but the dopamine I got from it all was the crutch I used to get through. I apologized for that and said while I don't like the way he ended things, I feel that doing so wasn't easy for him and must have felt necessary for his own mental health for him to have done so. Nowadays I keep things light. I'm good...I still think about you....if you ever have interest in trying this again I am here. He always opens my emails....sometimes a couple times...I know he still cares.

I do believe he had strong feelings. I don't think he knew how to deal with that. The more this turned into a relationship over time the less likely it became that we could have this easy fun "cheat card" affair. I have tried to convince myself a million times that he just didn't give a s***...that he got tired of me and walked away....it would be easier...but I can't. He's a blunt person and he would have just told me he wasn't into it...to move on. I don't think that would have been hard for him at all. Those feelings though...for some reason he could not talk about them...but the reality was....I have children, he has a career and a whole life that could be turned upside down if his wife found out he was cheating. Even if she is just a roommate who cares for their pets and does his laundry...that's his life. I can't be that for him. I was open that I wasn't leaving my husband but that my husband wouldnt leave me for sleeping with someone else....but I am still a mom first.

So in the end he's the smart one. Us being together probably would have ended in disaster. The pandemic was a horrible time to try and start an affair. His leaving the way he did forced me to get the mental help I needed...and I am better for it now. What hurts is that...he's gone. I don't want that to be forever. My husband is 19 years older. My sons will grow up one day. I will wait for him...but will he ever be able to be there for me? I feel it in my bones that he wants to be...but I also think he is an avoidant person who doesn't trust his own feelings so he sticks with status quo and avoids it all by working non stop. I hate not knowing if I will ever kiss this man...be with this man. I don't know why I feel the way I do but it has been 4 years and it has not lessened, not one bit.

So that is where I am. Why is life so complicated?

thank you for reading...that was like a freaking novel.

[BaileyB]

This reads like unrequited love or a crush to me. My guess is that he enjoys the flirtation and the conversation with you… but, you have overestimated his feelings for you because you feel very attached to him. The simple truth is, if he was interested in pursuing a relationship with you (cheating), he would have done so. The fact that he hasn’t progressed the relationship tells you all that you need to know.

I’m very glad to hear that you are doing some counselling because you have deceived a lifetime worth of trauma and loss. For what it’s worth, I think you are far better served by a counsellor or a friend than an affair partner. You have formed a be try unhealthy attachment to this man as a coping strategy and it’s difficult to let that go - but I think you are on the right track…

I wish you well. 

[ExpatInItaly]

Girl. 

He's just not that into you. Please stop contacting him. 

[stillafool]

From what you wrote it seems you have been doing all the chasing and he's keeping you at arms length instead of coming right out and saying he's not interested in an affair with you out of kindness.  It is true that if he wanted to see you he certainly would.  He doesn't want to cheat on his wife and you've done nothing to respect that.  If your friend asked her husband for an open marriage and he agreed, she isn't doing anything wrong.  Why didn't you ask your husband for an open marriage before you decided to pursue this other man?  Why didn't you seek comfort from your own husband when you found out your friend committed suicide instead of seeking out the MM?  Forget the pandemic, anytime is a poor time to start an affair.  You have acted recklessly and thank goodness the married man kept his head on straight and didn't get involved.  I don't understand, if you are unhappy in your marriage why not seek a divorce rather than try to have a man on the side?

[jrm79]

On 1/14/2025 at 1:05 PM, BaileyB said:

This reads like unrequited love or a crush to me. My guess is that he enjoys the flirtation and the conversation with you… but, you have overestimated his feelings for you because you feel very attached to him. The simple truth is, if he was interested in pursuing a relationship with you (cheating), he would have done so. The fact that he hasn’t progressed the relationship tells you all that you need to know.

I’m very glad to hear that you are doing some counselling because you have deceived a lifetime worth of trauma and loss. For what it’s worth, I think you are far better served by a counsellor or a friend than an affair partner. You have formed a be try unhealthy attachment to this man as a coping strategy and it’s difficult to let that go - but I think you are on the right track…

I wish you well. 

Frustrating thing is at times I would feel that this was the case, tell him...if you're not into this we can stop...and he would just reassure me.  If he did that while knowing he had no feelings...that makes him an a**h*** which makes me a pretty bad judge of character LOL.  I dunno.  In the end it doesn't really matter...what is most important is that I've worked on myself and continue to try and better my situation.  I def agree we have an unhealthy relationship.  I am still in therapy and my therapist is great!!

[jrm79]

On 1/14/2025 at 3:56 PM, stillafool said:

From what you wrote it seems you have been doing all the chasing and he's keeping you at arms length instead of coming right out and saying he's not interested in an affair with you out of kindness.  It is true that if he wanted to see you he certainly would.  He doesn't want to cheat on his wife and you've done nothing to respect that.  If your friend asked her husband for an open marriage and he agreed, she isn't doing anything wrong.  Why didn't you ask your husband for an open marriage before you decided to pursue this other man?  Why didn't you seek comfort from your own husband when you found out your friend committed suicide instead of seeking out the MM?  Forget the pandemic, anytime is a poor time to start an affair.  You have acted recklessly and thank goodness the married man kept his head on straight and didn't get involved.  I don't understand, if you are unhappy in your marriage why not seek a divorce rather than try to have a man on the side?

I was just up front and honest about what I wanted.  He told me we would get a chance to see each other, he even talked about taking me flying.  I suggested more than once that we shelve it and stop communicating and he had a chance to end it then.  It was all VERY confusing.

My husband and I did speak about it.  He was not in the dark about this...I just chose to leave that part out...doesn't change the situation much...I wasn't going to leave him either way.  My husband and I work well together as parents and have 2 boys that mean more to me than anything...but as with any relationship things are lacking.  Husband is 19 years older and we have no sex life...and I was just hitting an age where my hormones were going nuts.  Not a great decision sure...but it happened.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, jrm79 said:

Frustrating thing is at times I would feel that this was the case, tell him...if you're not into this we can stop...and he would just reassure me.

His words don’t match his actions though… and when that happens, you need to believe his actions. 

I think you were taken in by his words because they were what you desperately wanted to hear… like so many people are. The reason why you are struggling and feel so confused and unhappy is because he hasn’t backed up his words by actions. 

To be fair, he can’t back up his words with actions because - he is married to another woman. And therein lies your problem… you are looking in the wrong place for reassurance and happiness. It’s time to make the decision - your decision - to find other ways to reassure and occupy your mind… he has his own life to lead. 

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, jrm79 said:

 My husband and I work well together as parents and have 2 boys that mean more to me than anything.

Then ask yourself this: why jeopardize their family unit by trying to have an affair?

4 hours ago, jrm79 said:

My husband and I did speak about it.  He was not in the dark about this.

Meaning, he knows about your interactions with this man? Is he okay with you stepping outside the marriage like this? That's a genuine question. Some spouses are indeed alright with that sort of thing, so long as the other party doesn't actually leave. 

[jrm79]

17 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Then ask yourself this: why jeopardize their family unit by trying to have an affair?

Meaning, he knows about your interactions with this man? Is he okay with you stepping outside the marriage like this? That's a genuine question. Some spouses are indeed alright with that sort of thing, so long as the other party doesn't actually leave. 

Yes, he seems to just lack interest in sex all together and has ED issues and the general discussion was...if I did sleep with someone else it would not be detrimental to the marriage...but in our case it was someone I had known in the past and I don't think I'd ever go out again looking for someone new.  It was just my stupid heart pining for someone I had always wanted and never got to have.  I need to let it go.

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, jrm79 said:

Yes, he seems to just lack interest in sex all together and has ED issues and the general discussion was...if I did sleep with someone else it would not be detrimental to the marriage..

But that's not really what was going here. You were clearly angling for more emotional connection with this man, too. I don't see how that would not be detrimental to your marriage, nor how your husband would be okay with it. There is a difference between some no-strings sex and an affair. 

8 hours ago, jrm79 said:

It was just my stupid heart pining for someone I had always wanted and never got to have.  I need to let it go.

You do. This other man clearly does not want what you want, and it would blow your world apart. It's time to stop contacting him completely, for good.