Little story and quiz I'd like to share

[DrBruceSpruce]

There are two quotes that encompass the two conflicting views of education nicely: " If you think education is expensive,try ignorance", and "education is all well and good, but it's worth remembering that anything worth learning can't be taught." While I think both these quotes make valid points, i have a different if not entirely separate bone to pic with education.My football coach at my old school always encouraged me to K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid) which i think can be applied to a great many things other than football,so i will try and keep it simple here. I have two gripes with the education system in England and in most countries for that matter. Firstly, the procedure of only testing someone after you've taught the subject seems ludicrous if one thinks it through properly. Obviously,there is a need to test what one has learnt over the course of the year, but the over riding impression that i get with educational system is to test what you do not know and then close the book and move on to another subject. Secondly, it has been said before and I will say it again, those nice little A's in your A levels and your First Class degree are important, but at the end of the day education has to be more than that .Education has to be about learning in the wider sense of the word and not about formulae or simple reading books because the syllabus tell you do. Education is in essence learning who and where we are and how we got here. If we do not know where we are how we can possibly know where you're going?

 

A couple of years ago I taught of a group of International School students with the object of instilling some knowledge of American and English culture to prepare for their respective university lives.To aid this, I summoned the help of my old history teacher and we devissed a test comprising of about sixty questions from ancient mythology to modern music. It was not meant to be a definitive test of what one is meant to know, but rather what my history teacher and I decided would be helpful to know when one was taking classes in university or talking to their peers in another country to better ease their transition to what was for many of them a new country. I expected to have about six or seven " problem" areas where I could read up about and teach them enough for them to know what their university lectures or peers were referring to .The results both astounded and dismayed me, these were people that were to go on to top universities both in the States and here in England. The school which shall remain unnamed aimed to emply the " top 1%" of teachers in the World, if the even this alleged to 1% are not able to go beyond the confies of syllabus driven education then we really have a problem on our hands. There are people who argue that our information base is growing exponentially and that it doesn't really matter anymore how much general knowledge you accumulate or are taught, I beg to differ. Without a common base of knowledge ,we severe links with our culture, with our identity and more than anything it makes communication and teachingin universities all the more diificult when one can no longer simply expect everyone to know certain facts

[Marzipan]

Not to be rude but does this have anything to do with relationship issues? It sounds like an infomercial or something. Sorry, don't mean to offend but I thought this forum was to discuss problems and issues not education.

There are two quotes that encompass the two conflicting views of education nicely: " If you think education is expensive,try ignorance", and "education is all well and good, but it's worth remembering that anything worth learning can't be taught." While I think both these quotes make valid points, i have a different if not entirely separate bone to pic with education.My football coach at my old school always encouraged me to K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid) which i think can be applied to a great many things other than football,so i will try and keep it simple here. I have two gripes with the education system in England and in most countries for that matter. Firstly, the procedure of only testing someone after you've taught the subject seems ludicrous if one thinks it through properly. Obviously,there is a need to test what one has learnt over the course of the year, but the over riding impression that i get with educational system is to test what you do not know and then close the book and move on to another subject. Secondly, it has been said before and I will say it again, those nice little A's in your A levels and your First Class degree are important, but at the end of the day education has to be more than that .Education has to be about learning in the wider sense of the word and not about formulae or simple reading books because the syllabus tell you do. Education is in essence learning who and where we are and how we got here. If we do not know where we are how we can possibly know where you're going? A couple of years ago I taught of a group of International School students with the object of instilling some knowledge of American and English culture to prepare for their respective university lives.To aid this, I summoned the help of my old history teacher and we devissed a test comprising of about sixty questions from ancient mythology to modern music. It was not meant to be a definitive test of what one is meant to know, but rather what my history teacher and I decided would be helpful to know when one was taking classes in university or talking to their peers in another country to better ease their transition to what was for many of them a new country. I expected to have about six or seven " problem" areas where I could read up about and teach them enough for them to know what their university lectures or peers were referring to .The results both astounded and dismayed me, these were people that were to go on to top universities both in the States and here in England. The school which shall remain unnamed aimed to emply the " top 1%" of teachers in the World, if the even this alleged to 1% are not able to go beyond the confies of syllabus driven education then we really have a problem on our hands. There are people who argue that our information base is growing exponentially and that it doesn't really matter anymore how much general knowledge you accumulate or are taught, I beg to differ. Without a common base of knowledge ,we severe links with our culture, with our identity and more than anything it makes communication and teachingin universities all the more diificult when one can no longer simply expect everyone to know certain facts

[DrBruceSpruce]

I presume that we are all of above intelligence here, so I present the test that was given with some alterations. This is not a contest and for that reason I am not going to post how much I know or scored (my history teacher and I had about a 50 50 share of the questions), if you do not know the answer then look it up, find out about the subject. The only way if you can decide a fact is truly useful is if you learn about it, without learning about these facts one can not distinguish what you feel is necessary to know and remember ,and this is decision that you must make yourself.

 

Easy ones:

 

1: Who is current President of the USA?

 

2: Who sang the hit single Genie in a Bottle?

 

3: Where are the Great Lakes located?

 

4: "do i feel lucky, well do ya punk?",who is this quote attributed to and who played him

 

5: Name the 2 main political parties in the US

 

6: name the two main political parties in UK (yes you could argue there are three but you know what i want)

 

7: Andy Warhol was best known for his works in which are movement

 

8: WHo is the immortal bard?

 

9: Who is James Joyce?

 

10: Where was Napoleon's last defeat?

 

Slightly Harder:

 

11: Complete the quote "Let he who is without sin,cast...."

 

12:Who painted Starry Night?

 

13: Who wrote Crime and punishment?

 

14: Who designed the glass pyramids in front ofthe louvre?

 

15: who won the gold medal in the men and female 100 m events in Sydney?

 

16: What was the declaration of Independence?

 

17: Who was J.P Getty?

 

18: Who starred as Rocky in the Rockyseries of movies.

 

19: Who wrote the Republic?

 

20: Name one of the intellectual father of communism?

 

21: " United we stand, divided we fall" who is this quote attributed to?

 

22: Who was the facist leader of Italy who died in 1945?

 

23: who first postulated that the earth orbited the sun,rather than vice versa.

 

24 : what does etc stand for?

 

25: what was the Masstricht treaty?

 

26 who sang ( i can 't get no) Satisfaction. (i know of two possible answers,there may be more)

[DrBruceSpruce]

27: Who is attributed with breaking the ERM in 1992

 

28: Who is Kofi Anan?

 

29: Who wrote War and Peace?

 

30 what shoes make " you feel like walking"?

 

31: who is ray Kroc?

 

32: Which South American country is dangerously close to defaulting on its debt?

 

33: who wrote Leviathan?

 

34: in which century was the Magna Carta written?

 

35: How many ammendments have been made to the constitution of the US?

 

36: Who was the first lady?

 

37: What nationality was Albert Einstein?

 

38: Who face ' lauched a thousand ship?'

 

39 : who was Adolf eichmann?

 

40 who was the little girl in E.T who went to have a successful movie career?

 

41: which year did william the conqueror invade england?

 

41: what year was the Gettysburg address?

 

43: who shot Abraham lincoln?

 

44: what day is super bowl normally held?

 

45: who was stalin?

 

46: in what year was the Cuban missile crisis?

 

47: " That's all folks!"who is this quote attributed to?

 

48 : what was the slogan of the French people when they overthrew their government in 1789? ( hint: those three words)

 

49: what century did issac newton live in?

 

50: what is the avagadro constant?

 

51:"giving up smoking is easy,I've done it hundereds of times."who is this quote attributed to?

 

52: who was Britian's Prime Minister during the battle of britain?

 

53: what is the G8?

 

54: Who did Time magazine award Man of the decade to in the 1980's?

 

55:who is said to have killed Julius Caesar?

 

56: Who defeated Napoleon in the Battle of waterloo?

 

57: which zip code in Beverly hills is associated with a famous television show?

 

58: Who was John Locke?

 

59: "i think,therefore I am" who is this quote attributed to

 

60: who reign on mount olympus?

 

Remember this is meant to be fun, knowing everything here does not prove irrevocably that you are remarkably well informed nor does hardly knowing any of it. Feel free to discuss with friends and family, learning should be a social activity and to quench inherent intelletual curiosity.

 

And of those know it alls, i throw in a bonus.

 

61: Which word has the longest definition in the Oxford English Dictionary

 

P.S: I've realised i've made some typos, and have also replaced some question. Go on have a go you know you want to

[clia]

You SAY: "I have two gripes with the education system in England and in most countries for that matter. Firstly, the procedure of only testing someone after you've taught the subject seems ludicrous if one thinks it through properly. Obviously,there is a need to test what one has learnt over the course of the year, but the over riding impression that i get with educational system is to test what you do not know and then close the book and move on to another subject."

 

I've been pondering over this for awhile after reading your quiz, and I really have to disagree. Yes, most testing in the high school (and even university) level is a regurgitation of facts, but how exactly would you propose testing people on something they have never been exposed to? I can't imagine getting a Calculus test before anyone ever explained to me what a derivative was. Or calculating the force to move an object up a hill without knowing about mass, angles, etc. Getting a test like that would not be teaching--it would be ludicrous.

 

You're also assuming that people will take a look at what they don't know and then try to find out what the 'right' answers are. Most people don't do that. They toss the test in the trash and move on. That's not a problem with the educational system, but a problem with people.

 

"Secondly, it has been said before and I will say it again, those nice little A's in your A levels and your First Class degree are important, but at the end of the day education has to be more than that .Education has to be about learning in the wider sense of the word and not about formulae or simple reading books because the syllabus tell you do. Education is in essence learning who and where we are and how we got here. If we do not know where we are how we can possibly know where you're going?"

 

This is where our free will as human beings comes in. I didn't expect my teachers in high school or college to teach me everything there was to learn. They provided a basis, and what I did with that basis was up to me. I happen to like reading history books, science books, and math books for fun, so I have been able to widen my education. Many people don't care to learn more. That's not a fault of the educational system. It's a problem with people.

 

Your quiz feels like something from Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. It's trivia, simple facts. Anyone can memorize facts. Learning is a different thing entirely. I really didn't understand in your post what the test was supposed to prove. It seems heavily United States biased. Most people in the U.S., despite their intelligence, could probably answer many of those questions. I wouldn't expect someone who grew up in France to know who played Rocky, and wouldn't hold it against them if they didn't. And what does knowing that knowledge add to society, anyway? Was it supposed to be a test of pop culture?

I presume that we are all of above intelligence here, so I present the test that was given with some alterations. This is not a contest and for that reason I am not going to post how much I know or scored (my history teacher and I had about a 50 50 share of the questions), if you do not know the answer then look it up, find out about the subject. The only way if you can decide a fact is truly useful is if you learn about it, without learning about these facts one can not distinguish what you feel is necessary to know and remember ,and this is decision that you must make yourself. Easy ones: 1: Who is current President of the USA? 2: Who sang the hit single Genie in a Bottle?

 

3: Where are the Great Lakes located? 4: "do i feel lucky, well do ya punk?",who is this quote attributed to and who played him

 

5: Name the 2 main political parties in the US 6: name the two main political parties in UK (yes you could argue there are three but you know what i want) 7: Andy Warhol was best known for his works in which are movement 8: WHo is the immortal bard? 9: Who is James Joyce? 10: Where was Napoleon's last defeat?

 

Slightly Harder: 11: Complete the quote "Let he who is without sin,cast...." 12:Who painted Starry Night? 13: Who wrote Crime and punishment? 14: Who designed the glass pyramids in front ofthe louvre? 15: who won the gold medal in the men and female 100 m events in Sydney? 16: What was the declaration of Independence?

 

17: Who was J.P Getty? 18: Who starred as Rocky in the Rockyseries of movies. 19: Who wrote the Republic? 20: Name one of the intellectual father of communism? 21: " United we stand, divided we fall" who is this quote attributed to? 22: Who was the facist leader of Italy who died in 1945? 23: who first postulated that the earth orbited the sun,rather than vice versa. 24 : what does etc stand for? 25: what was the Masstricht treaty? 26 who sang ( i can 't get no) Satisfaction. (i know of two possible answers,there may be more)

 

[DrBruceSpruce]

1) Testing before you've taught everything, yes it probably is ludicrious, but I would contend that testing after all the teaching is over and closing the book right after words is almost as ludicrous. Of course its not pratical to test calcuslus with firt teaching someone calculus. I'm just saying if education is about learning rather than giving people marks based on their ability in calculus then there simple has to be a better way, an endless series to tests doesn't do anyone any good any way shape or form. It brutalises the ones less able to grasp a particular topic and lowers their self esteem and reduces their willingness to open up and learn.

 

2) Correct, most people couldn't give a toss, is it their own free will, yes, but are they also a by product of the education system? also yes. Teachers have to sell the idea of learning and being interested and promote an atmosphere where people can speak without being hit (metaphorically).Children have a natural intellectual curiousity and learn for the sake of learning,why do so many poeple now not give a toss, I think the way we've taught it partly to blam. Of course we cannot coeerce people to be interested , as John Stuart Mill once said " over ones body and mind,one is sovereign" but we should damn well try to instill some lust for learning at least and not just do enough in school to "get by"

 

3) You think most people could answer those questions, i think again, a survey done by 60 minutes on 1500 college students had similar results. 70% of children didn't know who Kurt Waldeheim was, half of them couldn't put the declaration of independence in the right hundred years, and 80% of people had no clue who James Joyce was, this is not funny, all too often we laugh at ignorance to only get it stuffed back down our throats

 

4) I said before and I said it again, this test is heavily US biased, not because of any superiorty of the US culture but because most of the students would go onto the States. Some facts have no profound meaning (who played Rocky) some facts point to our most important thinkers of our ages, you shouldn't have to live in the States or Ireland for that matter to know who James Joyce is . Of course I wouldn't hold it against people if they didn't know who James Joyce was or who played Rocky, and you might think not knowing who James Joyce isn't essential to be a banker. But until you actually know who James Joyce is you don't know, knowledge such distinctions can't be made

 

5) What do have i against people that don't know who played Rocky? This is exactly the bone I have to pick, why doesn't knowing instantly equate to me holding something agaist someone? when one think of it ,ignorance shouldn't have such a negative connotation, we are after all human and can't be expected to learn everything,but being presume semi educated people we should be able to have an intelligent conversation knowing that most things that are talked about don't need to be explained and that these facts have been picked up along the way. Let me raise an example, one of my students thought that Karl Marx was in fact a Russian Ballerina, and he was going to Major in Politics at one of the top 10 unis in the States, I daresay that a university lecturer job will be harder if he can't expect his pupils to know who Karl Marx is when he does his government 101 course. A commedian i know in England has his repetoire of jokes shrunk when he reaslied more and more he couldn't expect poeple to know certain facts he thought were common knowledge, " I can't be arsed to tell them who Lenin is and then make a joke about it." Without knowing our history we will be whipped up into a mass freny by politicans using patriotic stories that were pure myth

 

There have been times and places in the past that restricted whatyou can and can not know and forced one side of a story down our throats, we are now free to take whatever side and learn whatever we please, doesn't it worry you that like you said the most common answer you get from people is " i couldn't give a toss?"

[sparkle]

I feel a little lost...

 

What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

[DrBruceSpruce]

It is better to know than not to know. This point may sound obvious, but it is lost on my students who don't want to know simply beause it doesn't have anything to do with their respective careers or they can't be arsed. Should we expect people that leave high school to share at least some knowledge of the most profound thinkers of our time? Should we expect college students to brieftly outline a chronology of majoy events for the past 300-400 years? Should we expect students who by definition are the very people that should have a lust for learning to leave that same curiousity? At the moment we can sexpect none of them. Ignorance is something that can be seen on two levels. Imagine reading a book with eavery other page missing, or hearing a joke with only the punch line this is akin to reading the news or sitting in lectures who assume their listners know some of these common facts.

 

But itall goes back to one point that students seem to have lost, it is better to know than not to know, it's that simple

[quankanne]

you're looking at it from their exit level, these "kids" have been in school 12-16 years, and of course they don't give a rat's ass about what they've learned, they're just happy to be sprung from school!

 

BUT ... fast forward a good 5-10 years, when reality hits (married, parenting, working), and people start putting those tidbits of information to use. Maybe not ALL of it, but a good part of it. And depending on your job (oh, say like us journalists), you find yourself constantly becoming an expert in subject areas you forget even existed or even cared about!

 

The key to educating others isn't endlessly drilling pieces of information into people's heads, it's creating an environment that makes them excited to learn, that makes them hungry to know more.

 

just my two cents....