Just need a head check from the ful people at ls

[salmagundi]

First of all, I have to thank everyone here for making this site so great, since my breakup it has helped me more than anything else to keep my head together.

 

So now I need a bit more advice. Some of you have read my posts. To recap, my gf and I broke up two months ago because, basically, I was more ready than her for a relationship. I kept cool, said thats your decision and I respect that and walked away. Since then we have had, well, quite a bit of contact, all of it intiiated by her and all of it ambiguous. Read my posts from before xmas if interested.

 

4 weeks ago I left quebec to go home to Vancouver to get away because no matter what she was thinking/wanting I needed some space to get my head straightened out and get some perspective. Before I left I said goodbye and that I was going to use the time to think and she should too. Think about how we should be fitting into each others lives in the new year because if she just wants to be friends I told her I care about her and respect her and dont want to hurt her but that I cant do it. She said she knew. Then we hugged a longtime and I left thinking that was probably it and that I wouldnt hear from until I got back.

 

A week later I got an emai (merry xmas, I'm thinking of youxxx) thats it. So i replied a couple of days later that I was thinking of her too. Because it was true. But nothing more than that...I dont give any more than I get when I write/talk. More emails followed, every 4-5 days, telling me how/what she is doing, asking about me. Promising to never again act like a screwy b*tch to me (she's not a bitch, but things did get a little crazy towards the end). Obliquely telling me that she is seeing and hanging out with no one but her girlfriends (it seemed clear that she was putting out to me that there is no other man. That she cant wait to see me when I get back. That I am "un ange" (an angel) stuff like that.

 

I know I still have strong feelings for her (ok, f*ck it, i'm still in love with her). But I feel way stronger for having some space to think and reflect on all this.

 

Since I know I can't be her friend (I just can't, I feel too strongly about her) but also know I will give her a second chance if she asks, I'm in a bit of a bind as to how to act. So far, and since the breakup I've let her initiate all contact, I mostly succeed in not getting all emotional and I dont rush to answer calls and emails. But I do. The closest I've gotten to NC was not phoning her for the four weeks I was gone, justing sticking to well spaced email contact. I saw her today, my first day back. she came round and found me as I was getting off work and we talked for an hourn about our holidays but not about us. We kept it super light and jokey and I didn't try to bring up anything about us. I figure if she wants to talk about it she"ll initiate it.

When I left her today I just said, "so it was good seeing you again, see you soon" but left it open ended like that; left the ball in her court. I hope that was a good idea.

 

So, given that I'm willing to take the chance that she in fact doesnt want me back, does this semi-aloof yet still available approach sound good? Should I avoid trying to get her to tell me what she wants? Just be patient and see how it unfolds? Or should I be direct at some point and ask her straight out if she sees us trying again or not? Should I initiate contact with her? Ask her to hang out? Or definitely let her do all the work?

 

I do have reason to believe I'm not totally deluded in thinking there is still a chance, but at the same time I'm not betting the farm on it (if something else comes along, well...) and I know the risk I'm taking in hoping for it...but love is blind, right.

 

Any feedback greatly appreciated, thnks in advance,

 

salmagundi

[riobikini]

Sal,

 

You know I'm not your 'girl', but I'm going to give you my answer, in general, from the position of a girl.

 

If I had been looking for my guy to be less 'needy' towards me, I would be surprised at your all grown up' approach, this time.

 

I would be wondering if this is the same guy I used to know.

 

I would be a little concerned that I had, maybe, pushed the envelope just a little too far and would be uncertain whether I really liked this feeling of him not needing me, after all.

 

I would feel a bit 'tweaked'.

 

But I would definitely be thinking about you.

 

I might even wonder if you had new interests and that would make me a little jealous, which would be an emotion I'm not used to in dealing with you.

 

It would surprise me.

 

But you definitely would have my attention.

 

I would actually think the way you handled the conversation and meeting with your new 'aloofness' was a little sexy.

 

Reason being is because it somehow made you more independent and more masculine, in a strange way.

 

And I would find myself actually liking that, because it lets me know that you have finally adopted your position as 'boss', leader, etc.

 

As strange and old-fashioned as this sounds, that would be the way it would work on me.

 

Maybe she's different.

 

NOTE: She'll be looking for 'cracks' in that new demeanor...so don't crack and become the old, 'needy' guy she knew...and ran from.

 

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

 

P.S. I KNOW AlphaMale would love this post!

[salmagundi]

thanks Rio, i always appreciate your perspective. So, yeah, I'll let her come to me, i wont chase her, though I am tempted to ask her out to do something but...your right...cant show any cracks now.

 

Its hard though, because I worry that if I play it too cool I'll push HER envelope too far. But on the other hand, if she isnt into the chase, then she isnt that into me, right?

 

Anyway, thanks again, I'll tell you how it works out.

 

salmagundi.

[skeptik224]

Gotta love Rio's perspectives on things. I totally agree. If I were your ex and saw/heard you acting that way, you'd definitely be on my mind...I'd be thinking...

 

has he moved on?

is he over me?

did I mess up?

man, he really doesn't need me after all...

 

It'd also put me in the frame of mind that "man, this is the guy that I met and fell in love with in the first place."

 

Neediness is a huge turn-off. We've all shown that side and have had that side shown to us...it's not a good side. We all want to be that confident, strong person who is in control of ourselves.

[riobikini]

P.S.

 

Sal,

 

It's usually falling back into the old rut of handling things the way you did before that kills Second Chances.

 

-Rio

[salmagundi]

thanks for your response Skeptic, I almost expected it given that we're living more or less the same thing.

 

 

I guess all I'm worried about is that this will descend into a game. I mean, she knows I'm not seeing anybody else, this is a relatively small town adn a very small university, so there's no mystery there. (I mean the one time I asked a girl out, just before xmas, it turned out she is a friend of Virginies and the next day she was asking about it: "oh, so you know Rosée..." (yeesh...on the other hand I guess it couldnt hurt too much as far as letting her see that I COULD move on.)

 

But yeah, games. She's not dumb and is in fact much wiser in the ways of "l'amour" than I am and if I play "well, I'm contacting you until you contact me" I'm worried that on the one hand it will make me look kind of insecure (you know, like I need her to call me to validate me or something because I'm afraid to call her) and on the other that she'll just decide that she can play the same game and just not call ME until I call HER. Either way this wont advance.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a patient man when I know what I want and I can play a waiting game if its the right thing to do. That said, I hear everything both of you are saying about it being good to play it a little aloof. But if I dont hear from her before the weekend, if she doesnt make some kind of plans with me I know that will drive me nuts...

 

OK, just ranting, I'll go back to playing it cool again,

 

salmagundi

[skeptik224]

I'm not a game player because someone always loses. I, too, no doubt will run into my ex. My community is small and she lives about 2 blocks from where I work. It's ok that you asked out someone else. You didn't know she was a friend of your exes. In all honesty, how good of a friend is she to your ex if you didn't even know her? Don't panic if you don't hear from her by this weekend. If there is to ever be a 2nd chance, you don't want it rushed. At times, I feel like I pushed my ex into the relationship. (even though you can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do) A friend of mine said that maybe she thought she was ready but realized when she got into it that she wasn't. Who knows. You and I are in very similar situations as we've talked about - the difference being that your ex is coming around and not dating other people. You need to protect your heart. If she's only coming around to initiate being friends, you could end up very hurt. You can't be just her friend right now. I wish I hadn't sent my ex the e-mail I did this past Monday. All it did was make me look like a loser.

[salmagundi]

thanks again for hearing me out and responding skeptic, you're right of course.

 

And Rio, i just noticed now you're second post. "tu es vraiment sage, comme d'habitude" (you are truly wise, as usual) That is all I needed to hear to be sure I wont go chasing after her even if she does call. Because it was chasing her too much which killed things the first time, but you seem to have both grasped that intuitively. I have wisened up alot in the last couple of months. I hope she has too...

 

So i'll just hang back and see what develops. I'll report my progress or lack thereof here later. I find writing here at ls is a bit like keeping an interactive journal, one that tells you when you're being a jackass or you're f**king things uphttp://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

thanks again.

 

salmagundi

[chocolate_boy]

 

NOTE: She'll be looking for 'cracks' in that new demeanor...so don't crack and become the old, 'needy' guy she knew...and ran from.

 

(Smile)

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

 

P.S. I KNOW AlphaMale would love this post!

 

Rio I'll be honest, I usually disagree with most things you (and alphamale) post on here, but I guess we come from different backgrounds and have had different experiences, so all good.

 

With this situation it sounds more to me that she may have realised that she's missing him in some way, but I don't think playing the game or acting like the big man will help too much here, if she (like you) is curious cos he seems different, surely she'll just end it with him again when he becomes his real self, you can't put on an act forever, and why would you want to be with someone where you couldn't be yourself?

 

Be VERY cautious buddy, keep us updated.

[riobikini]

Sal is growing, CB, and those changes are good ones.

 

He now recognizes the futility and the error in continuing with old patterns of behavior and is just beginning to try out some new behavior.

 

Although it's 'forced' at this point, he realizes he has to, at least, try breaking the bad habits and old tendencies.

 

He's still in a battle with his emotions but the awareness of his past problems and how he reacted under certain circumstances in this relationship has given him good reason to implement newly-learned responses.

 

If he stumbles, or even fails at the attempt, -he's still made PROGRESS simply because he has accepted that the past behavior hasn't worked.

 

And I think he may also realize it wouldn't work in ANY relationship.

 

That realization alone is worth it's weight in gold!

 

(Not to mention, save him alot of future pain).

 

So if this particular relationship still winds up in the toilet, he has learned what WILL work and what WON'T work with the next one.

 

And never say 'never' to the possibilities that lie in the future for finding that thing called 'love', - because it has a way of finding YOU!

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[gordon_gc]

Why can't I be that strong ?

 

Sal, I think you ultimately made the right decision by not going to this meeting... you felt that you were not ready to meet her and you knew it would make things worst !

 

Keep working on yourself the way you do and keep posting for yourself and others because it is people like you we need around here.

[salmagundi]

hey everybody,

 

thanks for all your responses. Now heres where I get my assed kicked. Its been 3 days since we talked, I;ve been busy with first week of classes, work etc. YEsterday I realised that if I dont call her she wont call me because it is so transparentally obvious that I'm not calling her not because I dont have the time but because I'm just playing a game. This made me feel kinda sstupid and childish. Thats not how I want to feel around her. So last night I called. I dont feel bad about it because it was the only thing to do that didnt feel completely adolescent and or weak and passive (like waiting for her to call me made me kinda feel) We are neither of us 18 and besides, I have been making her intiate all contact practically without exception for 2 months now. Over the 4 week holidays we exchanged exactly 5 emails and I took my sweet-ass time responding to everyone. I know she gets the point. I think I can afford to make a gesture this time.

 

Besides, I felt when she answered that she had been waiting by the phone for the past 48 hours. We had a good talk about nothing in particular then she playfully asked if I called just to talk or... So I asked her if she wanted to hang out this weekend. If I sound too keen, dont worry, she was like, "well...do you want to come by tonight?" (?) Couldnt do it because I had to be up early today, but of course I wouldnt of anyway, I'm not that eager! But I suggested maybe tomorrow (friday) we could maybe we could hang out do something casual. She said she had no plans and said sure and upped the ante and said "do you want to maybe even come for dinner?" I said ok.

 

So here I am. She visited me today at work...everything seems cool and in any case, I'm not going to push her for anything tonight. If she wants to talk, llike really talk beyond her usual ambiguity, great, I'll listen. If she wants to get together like I think is the case, great. We can talk.

 

If I get nothing from her; if she doesnt take the opportunity to open up a bit and I leave feeling like, "ok, I guess she really does just want to be friends" then I can start in on NC and forget about her. So I win tonight either way.

 

But I somehow feel that if I started playing games with her, that would have backfired. THe man she fell in love with the first time was up fromt and not a game player. So I dont see that it will help me now.

 

But anyway, I'll tell you all how it works out...

 

salmagundi

[skeptik224]

Hey, Sal...I think you made the right decision. I don't think I could have played it any better than that. Please let me know what happens. I don't agree with playing games. (although some people play games unintentionally) Be calm and protect your heart. I'm sure by the end of the night you will have some much needed clarity and answers (maybe not direct ones) to questions you've been curious about. You went 4 weeks with NC, correct? Then she started communicating?

[riobikini]

Sal,

 

No one should play games.

 

Love is not a game.

 

If you feel you have been playing games, instead of protecting yourself, then NC should never have been used.

 

I have read back through your threads and posts and feel sure you do love this girl.

 

I also see where you actually feel as if the two of you have much in common, in addition to many important building blocks that could contribute generously to a life-partnership.

 

From what I can gather, it's been on and off again largely in part to your 'wanting it all' more quickly than she does.

 

And she views that as 'needy' behavior.

 

Your decisions to limit email and move slowly on replying back have made a difference worth noting, tho, judging by the posts.

 

Still it will not exactly automatically win her abrupt change of mind and stamp of approval of you in, perhaps, the role you hope for.

 

It has given her needed time away from your presence and daily contact to think more rationally without the distraction of lit emotions to arrive at a decision about whether to include you in her life as a friend or a possible life-partner.

 

I'm sure she's had her moments just like you.

 

She may be reviewing all the information she has about you and weighing each characteristic carefully, judging as much with her heart as her head as she goes, whether she can live with this or not with that.

 

She may see the good in you, but remember, she has to look at it all to see if she can not only tolerate the weaknesses and forgive them, but reciprocate healthy emotions and contributions into the relationship, as well.

 

Meshing two lives is an enormous responsibility.

 

The questions we have to ask ourselves before making a serious commitment like this, are sometimes very difficult to answer to ourselves, and are always going to challenge us to know ourselves.

 

But it is better to know what we can do and what we can live with, rather than tear apart two lives with a mistake.

 

Sal, you are finding out about yourself throughout all this.

 

That is a good thing.

 

Give the girl reasonable time to make her decision, then call for a grown-up conversation about it.

 

Look each other in the eye and talk.

 

Truthfully, realistically, honestly, and openly.

 

Tell her how you feel you've grown and let her in on some of the mistakes you know you made, giving her the reasons why you think you made them in the first place.

 

Tell her that she has your heart and everything in you.

 

Remind her that you aren't the only man who ever wanted a woman so much he felt needy and weak, but also remind her that in weakness there is strength and if she chooses friendship and not partnership with you, that your heart can't take it and will have to walk.

 

Tell her that you've noted her mistakes as well.

 

Pause.

 

Look at her, and before she begins a protest, -tell her that you love her.

 

And keep breathing til her next words come.

 

You'll have your answer.

 

-Rio

[salmagundi]

thanks Skeptic for backing my decision; I actually didnt feel at all bad about calling her the way you often do ten seconds after you send that email to an ex that you know you shouldn't have, you know, the feeling where you're like "oh ****...I wish I could just take that back..." But I still feel better knowing I dont look like a total ass for caving and calling her.

 

As to our NC, I saw her the day before I left, we talked, and then I went full on NC firmly intending not to call or email or anything unless she did first. I It lasted a little more than a week. Then she sent a short email, and I responded in kind a few days later and then it was just every 4-6 days, always her first and me responding a couple of days later. And even when she got home after xmas and I could have called her, I never did, just email. And most important I think is I was sympathatic to anythingshe had to say but I didnt blurt any feelings on my behalf. She didnt know what I was thinking...if I was using the space to get over her or what...

 

I know she was expecting a call but i decided to just be true to my need for space. A few emails was all I was willing to give and she understands that I'm sure because when I left I told her I was really happy to get back home to BC just to have space and get things straightened out in my head.

 

And I think this did something for her because we have a mutual friend, one of her close girlfriends that I'm pretty close with too who, before the xmas break was telling me that probably the best thing for me would be to just let Virginie go and cut contact because we were both just confusing each other. I figured that if that was what Marie thought then she didnt think itfor no reason so it strengthened my resolve to go NC and get over virginie. But I saw her when i got back a couple of days ago and she says that her and virginie are going to see a show in Quebec city and I should come. I tell her that I dunno, and that over the xmas it had become clear as ever that me and virrg being friends was just not on so...it kinda depended..." She gave me this wierd knowing smile and just said..."don't worry, I have faith in you..." (?) I dont quite know what this means and I dont want to read to deep but she is definitely singing a different tune...

 

Anyway...I'm ready for anything, good or bad.

 

I'll fill you guys in tomorrow.

 

thanks again

 

salmagundi

[riobikini]

P.S.

 

Sal,

 

" Immature love says: 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says 'I need you because I love you.' "

 

-Erich Fromm

 

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[salmagundi]

Hey rio, we just crossed posts.

 

You're 100% right. Of course she has made mistakes and done things to make me rethink her (and decide that i can deal with her faults if she can deal with mine.) I think this gives us a certain equality here, there is no one bad guy and no one person responsible for all this difficulty. But I have learned that in a breakup situation the cowards way is to blame the other person for the breakup (it feels better but does nothing to help you learn...after all if it was all her fault then you did nothing wrong, so why change?) or worse, blame yourself (that wont help you grow, quite the opposite, you'll obsess over every percieved failing and do in whatever self esteem you have left) But i have learned to take responsibility for myself, which is empowering and has caused me to change a lot in attitude in the last few months. There are mistakes that I've made in the past that I'll never make again. So in that sense we can always see the good side of every breakup and even come to see a failed relationship as actually necessary to our lives and our development...and essential to our future relationships. After all, if I have the remotest chance again with virginie its only because I havent repeated post breakup mistakes I made with past girlfriends. Namely, obsessing and chasing after her after we broke up. This time I took it like a man and walked away. First time I've ever done that when i've been dumped by someone I'd really fallen for.

 

As to the conversation you propose, yep we need to have it...but not tonight. Like a wise woman friend of mine advised me, the next time we talk I have to give her the floor. So thats what I'm going to do and see what, if anything, she has to say. Cause in all honesty I have no intention of making myself vulnerable to her ever again either.

 

thanks for following my story Rio for the past several weeks, it makes your insight all the more valuable.

 

salmagundi

[skeptik224]

You are a strong man, Sal... I'm one of those that - at least in this situation - keep blaming myself even though I know it has nothing to do with me. But...how do you know what they've told you is the truth? I'd like to believe the things my ex has told me, but she's dating other people (which she told me she wanted, no needed to do) How do I know that it was just her cowardess way to let me down easy? I became pretty good friends with her best friend who lives in a different state. The last contact my ex initiated was right before she visited our friend. (I was there the week before) Our friend has done everything possible to stay out of this, but I wonder if she told my ex to leave me alone until she figures out what's going on within her. I wonder if she said to stop messing with my head. Anyway, I tried as well not to get our friend involved until this past Saturday. I sent her a text and she confirmed that my ex does not have a boyfriend. I haven't talked to our friend since because I feel terrible that I did that. It's too hard to separate. I don't mean to monopolize your post...it's just a crappy day today. Sorry.

[Jey Dey Dey]

After NC for a while and her contacting you first all of the time, you kind of 'earn it'. She was seeing you in a new light, not needy but strong and in charge. She probably kept wishing you'd call and got butterflies when you did. You asked her out for another day but she wanted to see you that night. What does that tell you? Awesome that you played it cool. I think that the space you took for yourself allowed her to process her thoughts and of course miss you. I also think that she wants to be with you again. I don't suggest having the talk Rio suggested, that's too much, too soon, it's too heavy.

 

When you see her have a good time. Laugh, joke, play around, talk about life, the stars, etc anything but 'us'. Make sure you make eye contact though, she'll be swooning. Use your eyes, your lips (not to kiss i mean), your touch, and see how it goes.

 

This is awesome. It's like you're almost there. I really do think it's going to happen for you guys.

[salmagundi]

Ok, so...I went over last night, we spent the evening an...well...nothing is really any clearer.

 

Heres how it went. I arrived, brought a bottle of wine. She said I am the first person to set foot in her house since before xmas. Shes been being kindofa wierd hermit lately. She cooked dinner. We ate, we talked we laughed.

 

She suggested we move to her bed (I know what you're thinkin, she has no couch, its more comfortable sprawling on her bed than sitting at her table).

 

We talk more...we play her guitar, she shows me a song she learned, I show her one I was practising back home over xmas. While I'm playing she kneels beside me and then sneaks a kiss kinda half on my lips and half not. Sounds pretty good so far, eh?

 

Not quite. I'm horny and male and stupid so I try and kiss her back...it felt like the moment so what the hell. At the last minute she pulls back and gently says no. Why not?

 

She gets all...i dunno, not agitated but just has something in her head that she wants to get out. She finally kind of does (we have another one of those moments where I wish she spoke english but anyway), she tells me that ...when she sees me "quelque chose se passe en elle" which literally means "something happens in me". She tells me that inside she is conflicted. She says I shouldnt interpret her actions. (?!) I tell her I already figured that one out myself. She says the logical part of her made a decision that we should not be together, that she wasnt ready. But that her heart wants her to be with me, that she cant keep herself from manifesting feelings...towards me. Like kissing me out of the blue and then recoiling. After this I'm a little bothered but we talk. We have probably the most intimate talk we have ever had. She was more open about herself than ever before and we connect like never before, on a deeper personal level.

 

She says in her life very few people have really gotten inside her, gotten to know her. It seems to imply that maybe I have. This goes with what her best friend told me about us having "parenté" (we're..like...cut from the same cloth). I dont know. She says she still finds new sides of me that surprise her. She says she wishes she could know as an english person, that she only gets to know me to the extent that I can express myself in french.

 

I dont know if it matters though...

 

She obviously is conflicted, I catch her looking at me really intently and I meet her gaze and she holds it then she looks away.... But then we do it again...

 

We talk more then in the kitchen she turns to me and asks if she can "serre-moi" (hold me...tightly). I say sure and we do...for a LONG time. Then she asks if this makes me uncomfortable. I say, no...but it depends on what it means, us holding each other like this, that is. She says she doesnt know what it means....that it just means what it means. I say...well...ok then and dont push the issue. I leave shortly after.

 

Today I think that things are every bit as ambiguous as before. I dont know what to do. I told myself over xmas that the next time I saw her I would give her a chance to tell me something clear...whether it was "I want us to be friends" or "I want us to be unattached ****buddies" or I want us to try again and get back together." Anything that I, in turn, could clearly respond to. This **** I cannot respond too. It means something, but I dont know what. I mean, if you asked me, I would have admit that maybe we are really just going in circles and will ultimately end up nowhere.

 

So I have no response except to go back into quasi NC and just slowly cut her out of my life unless or until she gives me something more concrete. I have to say, I have never ever broken up with somebody like this. I have no idea what to do in this situation. I mean, i have really strong feelings for her and i believe she obviously has some messed up but nonetheless strong feelings for me too. But how much of this ambiguity can a guy take?

 

 

Thanks for any MUCH needed advice.

 

Salmagundi

[riobikini]

Sal,

 

Alert: I read your posts.

 

She wants you to learn to be with her, -in her presence- and want her badly enough to want her (sexually)..-but NOT initiate nor act upon the ACT ITSELF!

 

She wants the ROMANCE, Sal...not the act.

 

I know it sounds like a game but it's important to a lot of women.

 

For some women (me, too), there is something so intimate about WANTING the act but NOT GOING THERE.

 

Somehow, for women especially, it deepens the meaning of the relationship and confirms that her partner loves her on an emotional (almost spiritual ) level that reaches far beyond the physical.

 

This is EXTREMELY difficult for males to grasp and they often get terribly confused with the signals, thinking that the kiss meant 'peel of your clothes', or the touch meant 'Step One' in heading into the sack.

 

Sal, I almost hate to admit to it, but this is A TEST, my friend....one that most guys fail, and one that is frequently carried out mostly by females in their quest to determine the true feelings of their partner.

 

Hey, -it occurs to me I'm telling secrets here, that I shouldn't be telling about the female psyche..!!! (Smile)

 

The kiss she grazed you with while she knelt in front of you is EXACTLY what I'm defining here.

 

You failed the little test because you attempted a physical reaction.

 

But don't worry, she'll try it again.

 

What you should have done: let her kiss you, breathe, don't move to touch her, and perhaps, just share a gaze.

 

I'm going to be very frank with this: I know it's almost impossible (especially in your situation, having little contact with her), -not to immediately think of sex and wind up getting an erection when she 'tests' you.

 

What she's doing borderlines on unmercilessly teasing you, but it's much more than that, she views it as 'necessary' to get the information about your feelings towards her that she's after.

 

She didn't want you to react with a response that came from an uncontrollable urge to only have sex.

 

She wants to know you can WANT IT, -but not ACT on it....-control it- wanting something else (intimacy), more.

 

Human beings are strange animals.

 

Our rituals, our methods, and our behavior, altogether, is uniquely complicated.

 

And women (it pains me to say), are the strangest and most complicated of the species.

 

God help you poor men because we (women) know that we're battling with uncooperative chromosomes which are programmed in such provocative opposition, but still, we choose to try and change them, influence them, and manipulate them to suit our our idea of 'what's best'.

 

(Smile).

 

And about the language barrier: with what's going on in your relationship right now, it's going to HELP you NOT hurt you...because (lucky for you) it could actually work as an EXCERCISE that will help you deal more successfully with this very thing she just did.

 

And win.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Rio

[salmagundi]

Thanks Rio, i was hoping you would respond.

 

I get what your saying. And I know that no matter what her intentions withthat kiss I shouldn"t have returned it. I'm just not so sure that it was a test so much as an impulse she acted on out of some emotional immaturity, which I think is a problem for her. Its hard for me to believe that this ambiguous "hot/cold" routine she's giving me isn't at least subconsciously manipulative, more to do with feeding her ego than it with me. Because we havent advanced one inch since we broke up. Same old merry go round of mixed signals and ambiguous physicality...

 

As you can see its starting to wear me down, I'm starting to wish I'd stayed in BC where at least I could stop thinking about her by virtue of not seeing her.

 

I dont know what to do now. NC? Wait til she calls me? Put my foot down about all this screwy ambiguity.

 

A friend of mine who is in our mutual circle of friends and has known her for years (but is a guy and more my friend than hers, unlike her girlfriends where its the reverse) suggested she was emotionally immature and had what he was able to translate into english as a "goodwife and whore" complex. What?!? What does this mean? This is all gettting to be a bit much, at least right now.

 

Thanks again.

salmagundi.

 

p.s. skeptik dont sweat coming onto this post, its practically the same story anyway. Hope yer well...

[salmagundi]

Also what she said about it being important that I try not to interpret her actions is bothering me alot. What does it mean when your ex gives you crazy mixed signals but then warns you against interpreting them? Other than that she's crazy (and french-canadian... )

 

salmagundi

[Jey Dey Dey]

I don't think it was a test. It was something she couldn't help. If she was over you she wouldn't be at home all the time, hermit style. She told you what you needed to know. She doesn't feel ready for this relationship because this could be it, the last one. She said her logical side told her to end it but her heart told her otherwise. She wanted that hug because she was yearning human touch, not just anyones but yours. You know how it is when you have been with someone for a long time, it's comforting.

 

You have to think about whether she is the one you want to be with the rest of your life. I would say NC to give her time to figure herself out, to figure yourself out. Spend time with her but not all the time. Don't ask what her actions/words meant, don't dissect everything because at this point it is what it is. She's unsure, acting on impulse. People can say all the women are the same but I don't think so, for the most part maybe they do but where you come from is also a factor. I don't think she's testing you, playing games, she's just acting on impulse.

 

She hasn't gone out for a reason, she wants to figure this out.

[Jey Dey Dey]

i think if you go farther enough you can find the post and it has the link to where they found it. It's really good:

 

You can feel them pulling away. You can see it. They may have even said it straight out, "I'm leaving you." Often this sets off a number of emotional alarm clocks at their highest volume and intensity. Few times in life is it easier to panic. Few times in life is it more important you don't.

 

It feels like a disaster doesn't it? Well you've watched disaster movies. You know how it goes. The ones who panic die off early in the movie. They are small part actors and you never remember their names. The one's who keep their heads in the crisis tend to walk out of the flaming building with the other most attractive character on their arm. If you want to win them back you must make a decision now to either panic and most likely lose your goal before you get close to it or to get in your brain, utilize your anxiety, depression, anger, and loneliness. And while you're at it don't forget to utilize rather than suffer all that pain you've been given.

 

Chances are you're getting a lot of conflicting advice from folks. It all boils down to fish or cut bait. The advice I give to win a love back starts with the same advice as for letting go.

 

Let go.

 

Romance, love, sex, it's always a dance. It's all back and forward, back and forward. When your love pulls back, then back again and you are still moving forward, it's no longer a dance, it's a chase. And what do people do when we chase after their affection? They run.

 

I imagine your love is prepared for the chase to continue, and if I'm right it makes them feel guilty. How often does guilt buy love and attraction? Not often. I've never seen it. Have you?

 

If anything will work at all it is to let go. Not let go and sit home and suffer, but let go and go have a blast every day. This may sound impossible. But if your love is strong enough, if your goal of winning them back is compelling enough; you can do anything you have to do. Letting go and having a blast strengthens your position several ways.

 

It surprises them. They have taken your suffering for granted. They assume it. That's the person they're dumping. Who the hell is this person having so much fun? Curiosity is compelling. You get happy and relaxed with this and it hits them like a bucket of cold water that they don't know you quite as well as they thought they did.

We're all sexier and more attractive when we're having a blast than when we're depressed. It's far more compelling than making them responsible for our happiness.

When they see beyond a shadow of a doubt you're no longer chasing after their affection they can quit running and make their decision based on what they want instead of the chase they're running from.

We often take each other for granted. Part of the reason you've stopped taking them for granted right now is they've pulled back. The water in the well really is running dry. If your love will come back it will be after "they" realize all that's missing from life without you. They can't know what that is till you've pulled back as well.

Impatience is your enemy. It compells you to take action out of fear and we know that causes more mistakes and bigger mistakes. Generally impatience cannot be just pressed down, it creeps out and peeps out when you least expect it. Impatience is just that little voice inside your head that tells you, you can't be happy until you know your love is glad to be back. There's only one thing that really squashes impatience - making yourself go have so much fun every day that your brain has to go, "well, duuuuh, guess I can be happy right now and continue taking strategic actions towards my goal." A former Boss of mine had a standard rule for submitting loan applications, "Don't hurry up to get a turn down." If it's important, you must focus more on getting it right than doing it in a hurry.

 

I promise you , you're far more likely to win them back the more you enjoy this process and the less you suffer it. If you think that's impossible, think again. The most successful people on earth choose to enjoy challenges rather than be swamped by them. You must only make a decision now whether or not this goal is important enough for you to use your head or unimportant enough for you to allow your compulsions to defeat you. It's up to you.

 

I've seen this advice bring couples back together after restraining orders have been issued and clients have been arrested for breaking them. I don't guarantee it to work everytime and it works better than anything else. And if it doesn't work to win them back, in the process you've been strengthened and prepared to let go for good far more comfortably than you are right now.

 

Your fear is that if you let go you'll lose them. In fact you're more likely to lose them if you don't.

 

By the way I know taking this advice is a lot more challenging than giving it because I've done both.

 

Whoever you are, my prayer and my faith are with you. This is a helluva a "bump" on life's road, but you're stronger than you realize and you will be alright. If it's terribly important to you and you really work at this recipe you'll do quite a bit better than alright.

 

I was talking to a girl the other day that was following a recipe for grief. Her rule was that she was not promiscuious. It's a good rule. She felt like a relationship really had to be serious before she put out. Only under the influence of starry nights and a glass of something bubbly she'd put out and then decide it must be serious, this must be the one since she did in fact put out. This now caused her to treat the poor guy like "hey, we're destiny" and he would run from her speed and consequently her relationships were ending in disaster before they ever started. I suggested she change her rule. I suggested her new rule be that if she really liked and respected the guy and visa versa; if there was chemistry and they were safe.... then it was okay to have sex without this having to be "her soulmate." Either that or cut out mixing starry nights, bubbly and attractive men.

 

Many will disagree and yet she seems far, far happier for the change.

 

For some there is the added problem of your love thinking they're in love with someone else. That's about as hard a romantic bump in life as there is. You hate your rival. And yet, many times I've seen the other person be the key that puts your relationship back together. HOW??? Simple, while you've got alarm clocks going off like crazy the one you love is in the flush of infatuation. Infatuation is not love. Looks like it, feels like it, but it isn't love. Love is when you look at someone and say "I know all their faults and even if they never change a thing - I love them enough to stay." A person who's infatuated isn't qualified to make that statement. Not that it stops them or stops them from believing it. It's just good to know.

 

When you utilize your alarm clocks and make yourself have so much fun you can be patient.... now they have time alone with the new Mr. or Miss wonderful. Infatuation moves into the stage of disillusionment. They wonder what they saw in the new one in the first place. If at the same time they see you're not chasing them they can far more easily find themselves thinking "Why the new one isn't as good as the other one, am I being an idiot here or what?"

 

One girl told me, "But I can't have fun while I'm picturing them together!" Good point. Quit picturing things that hurt. Have three things you love to think about and three things you love to do in mind and handy at all times. When the picture starts, treat it like an alarm clock telling you to "Right now this very minute, think and do something else fun!" The first few times will be a little difficult, after that it's easier.

 

Finally, last but not least ask yourself these hard questions. Do I really love this person? Really? Do I love them enough to let them go? Do I love them enough to let go and have fun today and tomorrow and the days after that? Or is my love so selfish that I can only be happy if they're here serving my emotional needs no matter how much they may not want to right now?

 

Feeling like you're losing someone you love can be rough. It demands hard questions be answered. Serious decisions must be made. You're stronger than you realize. You can do whatever you need do to make your life healthier and happier if you choose to. Give it some thought, time and prayer and then choose.