Admiral Thrawn Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 also consider that there are alot of legally married people who have married on paper that are not considered to be married by god. people who marry for the wrong reasons, to gain citizenship, celebrities for show, etc. and for that matter people who just shouldnt be together because god didnt put them together. just because two people get married doesnt mean that god recognizes it. I think that when two people choose to get married, and actually get married, then they are indeed married, by the state, and by God. If no consumation takes place, then there is a possibility that could be true, and the marriage could be annulled and declared invalid. Once it is consumated, then if the couple divorces, and re-marries again, then the re-marriage would not be recognized by God, and the sin of adultery woudl be assumed if either party re-marries. Link to post Share on other sites
slubberdegullion Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 ...the re-marriage would not be recognized by God, and the sin of adultery woudl be assumed if either party re-marries. You've contradicted yourself, Admiral. God's appointed the state, since Genesis, to provide law and order and protect the vulnerable in society. Romans 13, also shows that God works with a state in basic matters of law, justice and order. If the State, appointed by God, sanctions the divorce and then sanctions the re-marriage, then the post-divorce marriage is, ipso facto, recognized by God. Link to post Share on other sites
Admiral Thrawn Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 You've contradicted yourself, Admiral. If the State, appointed by God, sanctions the divorce and then sanctions the re-marriage, then the post-divorce marriage is, ipso facto, recognized by God. Where the State is in harmony with the word of God, then it is appointed by God. For example, rogue states, such as Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's Russia, or many dictatorships that steal money and oppress their people, do not fall into that category. Re-marriage according to the word of God is only valid in the following two strict conditions: 1) You divorced because your wife was cheating around. 2) Your wife died. If you divorce and re-marry for any other reason, then it is sin. Obviously, a divorce is not necessary for the second condition, but if it occurred after one was divorced, then one could re-marry again. Otherwise, if someone divorces, for any other reason, and re-marries, then can not be recognized by God as Jesus, in the Gospels, said that practise would be Adultery. Link to post Share on other sites
slubberdegullion Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Where the State is in harmony with the word of God, then it is appointed by God. For example, rogue states, such as Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's Russia, or many dictatorships that steal money and oppress their people, do not fall into that category. I wondered how long it would take for that example to come up. Thing is, it doesn't define in the Bible exactly what it is a state must be to be in harmony with the word of God. All states, like all people, sin, either by accident or design. So if all states sin, then no state is in harmony with the word of God. And if no state is in harmony with the word of God, then God would not recognize such a state-sanctioned marriage. Therefore, everyone - and I do mean everyone - who is married is, logically followed, living outside of the grace of God, because there is no state that is without sin. You see the problem? Link to post Share on other sites
Admiral Thrawn Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I wondered how long it would take for that example to come up. Thing is, it doesn't define in the Bible exactly what it is a state must be to be in harmony with the word of God. All states, like all people, sin, either by accident or design. So if all states sin, then no state is in harmony with the word of God. And if no state is in harmony with the word of God, then God would not recognize such a state-sanctioned marriage. Therefore, everyone - and I do mean everyone - who is married is, logically followed, living outside of the grace of God, because there is no state that is without sin. You see the problem? Good point. I guess what I was driving at, to be specific, is what ever the state does that is condoned by God, will be condoned by God, what ever the state does against God or His Higher Standard, will not be condoned by God. Therefore, if the state wrongfully convicts a defendant, that will not be condoned by God. If a state rightfully convicts a defendant, and its laws are fair, that that would be condoned. Going to the marriage question, what would God condone in a state marriage? The Bible indicates a man and woman who marries for the first time, will be condoned. However, same-sex, or a divorcee remarrying again (except for immorality) would not be condoned, even if the state allows those types of marriages. Both aspects are likely to be controversial, in particularly, rights of a divorcee who has gotten out of a bad relationship (where immorality may not have been involved, but say maybe abuse, or financial recklessness) to be married again. The problem is some guys beat up their wives. He may not be cheating on her, but they may be drinking alcohol, and beating her up, and yet they want her. The Bible would encourage winning the husband over by love and turning the other cheek. I think it would be fair to ask Chris777 to intervene and shed some light on the fact that Jesus only validates a divorce and remarriage on grounds of immorality. As with the example mentioned here, could there be other grounds as well? Is the state reasonable in granting divorces or are they too leniant? Link to post Share on other sites
Becoming Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 It cannot be considered within the purview of mainstream Christianity to suggest that anyone should stay within an abusive marriage. That is a perversion to the core of what it means to be in Christ who brings life, not death. We all have a different interpretation of the Bible and what constitutes its core beliefs, yet sometimes act as though our reading is THE reading when this is simply not so. All you have to do is belong to a Christian community struggling to know and do God's will, which is at the heart of Christian faith, in order to see that we don't all believe the same and that the world has not ended as a result. Link to post Share on other sites
Me I Think Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I already know that I am probably going to get bashed for this, and it is kind of off topic depending on how you look at it. I must say I am having trouble with the original post. You say he makes way too much money but not enough for the both of you to live on. Mabee you should be talking to Dave Ramsey instead of people on love shack. Also I do know that in most states if anyone is providing you any financial support when you recieve government aid,this is a situation that can become of interest to the government. I do know that on federal tax you do not need to live with someone to be a dependant if you provide over 50% financial support for over 6 months you can claim to have supported that person Married or not living together or not related or not. So you recieve government benifits based on a disability while living with someone who dose not qualify for federal assistance because they make too much money. You need to ask your self what are you questioning and who are you lying too. You can't lie to yourself. If this god thingy is real and the tells are true you can't lie to him/her. You are lying to the government and commiting a crime and causing people like me to pay higher taxes because there is a way for you to recieve help/treatment or what ever with out federal assistance. I hope I do not offend any one too bad but this is a place to speak your mind, and now you all know what I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Becoming Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I already know that I am probably going to get bashed for this, and it is kind of off topic depending on how you look at it. I must say I am having trouble with the original post. You say he makes way too much money but not enough for the both of you to live on. Mabee you should be talking to Dave Ramsey instead of people on love shack. Also I do know that in most states if anyone is providing you any financial support when you recieve government aid,this is a situation that can become of interest to the government. I do know that on federal tax you do not need to live with someone to be a dependant if you provide over 50% financial support for over 6 months you can claim to have supported that person Married or not living together or not related or not. So you recieve government benifits based on a disability while living with someone who dose not qualify for federal assistance because they make too much money. You need to ask your self what are you questioning and who are you lying too. You can't lie to yourself. If this god thingy is real and the tells are true you can't lie to him/her. You are lying to the government and commiting a crime and causing people like me to pay higher taxes because there is a way for you to recieve help/treatment or what ever with out federal assistance. I hope I do not offend any one too bad but this is a place to speak your mind, and now you all know what I think. Touche! But if what our gov't provides is impossible to live on, there's another moral dilemma. Our gov't seems to want to help rich people hold on to their money but not help those who cannot help themselves by giving them enough benefits to live on. Try living for a year (not just a couple months) on what we give folks on Welfare and disability and then ask what the right thing to do is. We have a real crisis of care in this society and shame people into thinking it's their fault when they can't make ends meet when no one could. Link to post Share on other sites
penkitten Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 our government should come up with a plan to increase married population and it would work. having a baby gives you about 2 grand in earned income credit. getting married doesnt give you anything. i know alot more people in subsidized housing would marry their partners if they would get something because everything else gets taken away as soon as the marriage is legal. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Regarding sin: I'm with Quank on that. Regarding disability: Check your information. YOUR disability is based on what you have paid into the system and who may claim you as a dependent on the taxes. My husband has been on disability for years. I work and make a decent wage. The amount of his disability is not dependent on our total household income - it is based on what he paid into the system in Social Security taxes since he began working. We could win the lottery and it would not disrupt his disability payments or his medicaid coverage. Had he been on disability his whole life and never paid anything into the system he would still receive disability. The only way off is to stop it yourself by denying the payments or by getting a job, or by indictment/conviction of fraud or by death. Talk to a social security office and if you are not sure of their answers, talk to a social security attorney. IF for some legal loop-hole you are told that your disability and medicaid coverage will end when you get married then you have to weigh what is most important to you and to your live-in boyfriend. If you are a devout believer in God and are living with guilt then decide what is most important: Your guilt or your income/lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Marriage license cost about $ 110.00, !! Mine cost $25! Link to post Share on other sites
Me I Think Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Becoming Our government dose provide for those in need the problem is those who do not need taking advantage. Penkitty there are tax benifits to getting married but thats beside the point when I proposed to my wife I never said lets look at our taxes and see if we benifit from marriage. The point in the first post was if it was right by christian standards The Bible says to obey the law of the land unless it contridicts the law of god (Tax laws are no exception) Also render unto ceaser that wich is ceasers (Pay the taxes you should pay) Thou shalt not LIE is one of those commandment thingys above are just three ways this situation goes against the bible with out bringing up marriage also as I stated before married or not you can still be a dependant and there for be in violation of the law. Link to post Share on other sites
neek Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Marriage is a civil union for the good of the state. It wasn't until the Middle Ages that the church became involved in marriage because conflicts over legitimate inheritance were disrupting society to the point where wars threatened others. Then clergy became involved in the rites because they were some of the few people who could read and write. It was at that point that the church realized it had some important things to say about marriage and began to think of marriage as a sacrament, around the 13th century. Huh, wow, really? I never knew that...interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
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