Overcoming her Fear Barriers

[Ice_9]

Hi,

 

I need help with my relationship after a New Year incident. I need to know how to get my girlfriend to get in touch with her true feelings rather than locking them away to stop herself getting hurt again.

 

What I am about to describe is not universally considered a major problem. Just 4 verbal rants over 14 months. Marriage counsellors help couples get over far, far worse.

 

As this is lengthy, I will split it into two sections: HISTORY and SINCE THEN. For those who hate War & Peace - skip to SINCE THEN.

 

HISTORY

Since meeting in Oct 2004, my girlfriend and I have been totally fab but I did have a fear of losing her due to "what goes around comes around" as I treated my previous girlfriend badly. After first few month, I settled down but then........

 

To my girlfriend, stability is important and we met as I was changing jobs due to medical reasons. In all, I changed jobs 3 times in 2005. This caused even more worry that I'd lose her. So, in Sep 2005, as my stress peaked, I just snapped over a minor thing on holiday in Orlando and really horrible verbal abuse came out. It shocked me. We made up that day though and I promised not to do it again.

 

We were going great after that then in Dec, I snapped for no reason 2 more times. Silly. Stupid. I think I was living a self fulfilling prophecy.

One was kind of understandable. We picked a Xmas tree and I made sure she was happy with it. As we queued up, she kept saying she wasn't sure and I genuinly said "we can change it. I don't mind". She declined. She kept going on and kept refusing my offer to change it. This went on for 15 minutes. Finally, when we got to the check out after a quarter of an hour, she said she wanted another one and I'd had my patience tested I hissed "F**king hell! Get another bloody tree then!"

 

Final snap was on New Years Eve. At 6pm, we were kissing and very happy. By 11pm, I'd caused a row over absolutely nothing and called her bluff by threatening to end it. 'Twas nothing at all like the previous time where I was real nasty. Was just me being a spoilt brat. Looking for attention (aren't I great?)

 

When I saw her the next day on Jan 1st, she said she feels she was pushed too far that night and she withdrew. She admitted she loves me but looks at me differently now. She's not sure if she can get it back, worried she is wasting her time only to be hurt again. Knowing her as well as I do (but wary of mind reading) I think it's her defence mechanism. Her barriers were real hard for me to break down in the first place as she's very wary so I know they have shot up again - hurt by the person she trusted. She has since told me that she never really got over the first episode in Orlando and that it's playing on her mind.

 

Call me arrogant but I don't believe that love - and it was in her eyes just a few hours earlier on New year Eve can disappear just like that. I think her heart's just sheathed itself in it's armour like it was when I met her. At least I hope that's the case!

 

At the end of the day, we've had just 4 spats. Two in the Sep and two in Dec All were over nothing - so no major underlying issue with our relationship - and only the one in Orlando was serious as I was nasty. We've never argued. I've just blown off. All were made up immediately (save for this last time) and for the rest of the 360 days together, we talked & texted everyday: proffering our love each time. And we'd see each other too! Even since Orlando, despite what she now says, her love has shone like a beacon and was even moved, in December, to go out of her way and to leave a love note on my car!

 

From Jan 1st to Jan 6th, no matter what I said, she was cold and reluctant. When she said she doesn't know if we'll work out, I said that is the case for any relationship and that no one knows the future but we've been great and we can put right what's gone wrong to make us even better. But it didn't make a difference. I pointed out all the great things she did to show she loves me enough, what I did to show my love and to illustrate how great we are together. Again, it wasn't making a difference. I talked and talked, threw in fact, text messages, memories, metaphors etc but to no real avail. And yes, I did admit I was wrong and that I can change and that I may even seek help to ensure it happens.

 

So with this in mind, I really need to know how to get her to uncover that sheath of armour around her heart and to acknowledge her true feelings so that she can make a sound decision.

 

SINCE THEN

 

We decided to give it a go. You don't know if you don't try. On Friday 6th Jan, she suggested to "take a step back and return to dating". At first she was reluctant, pessimistic and closed off with body language and conversation.

 

Monday 9th and just a few days later, we had come a million miles. She called me "babe" again on the phone and when we watched TV together, her body language was better. She sought out my hand, held it and stroked it whereas a few days earlier, she would just let me hold it.

 

Wednesday 11th we went to a pub quiz. It went great. Lots of massive eye contact, touching and great flowing conversation. On the way home, she made the move to hold my hand. At her house, she threw her arms around me and gave me a few close mouthed kisses.

 

Friday 13th - our first real date. We really clicked. She sought out my hand over the restaurant table as well as other "love" style body language. Our eyes would lock and they'd dance together. When we went to the bar, she would put her hand on my leg (I was sat opposite) and she would caress my hand.

 

This was just a week from when she reluctantly agreed to give it a go. Neither of us expected such massive results so soon! It boded well.

 

Everyone who saw us on Friday would think we are a couple in love. We are. Her body betrays it. But her mind is still frozen with fear and is thus detached.

 

Back at her house, when she was leaning into me on the sofa, holding my hand, I went for the kiss but she wouldn't french kiss me and feels it's too soon and that we've only just taken a step back. She said what I knew all along - that she does love me: "I do love you and know this is too good to throw away but at the same time, a part of me is saying 'walk away'. I'm in turmoil"

 

Thing is, even when I left, she said "I really don't want you to leave. I want you to stay so much and it's driving me mad but I have this inner turmoil...."

 

Sunday 15th I popped round for lunch. As we kissed, close mouthed, and wrapped our arms around one another, she went to french kiss me and got very sexual. After a minute or two of heavy groping, she composed herself and went to the toilet.

 

She isn't the type to just get carried away but it had been ages since weither of us have had any sexual release so I assumed she just got carried away and went to sit on the sofa. When she returned 5 minutes later, she straddled me on the sofa and started again! She is not the kinda girl to do that unless she really wants to. She knows how upset I am at our situation and wouldn't play with my emotions unless she truly felt it.

 

That night we went out, returned home and cosied together on the sofa. She wrapped her arms around mine, kissed me and leaned into me. We close mouthed kissed some more and then began to french kiss like earlier in the day. I really though we were getting somewhere.

 

Monday 16th was even better as I received a text saying "I am just sat here thinking what a great weekend we had...thank you!"

 

Wednesday 18th she excitedly rang to make sure we were still going out that night.

 

Yet.........

 

Wednesday 18th and on our next date, we went out again. She again held my hand as we walked yet when I dropped her off, she couldn't french kiss me - despite the kissing on two occasions on Sunday and the text and the excited phone call.

 

And this is the crux. It's like she can only let go, emotionally, to a certain level and getting her beyond that is killing me. Especially as I know how she really feels. I wouldn't waste my time if there was nothing.

 

About the sudden reluctance not to kiss she meekly said what she said previously: "we've taken a step back remember?". Yes we had and we were taking it nice, slow and natural. We progressed far and the kssing was not rushed but it's like she's gone "I kissed him. I let him in. I can't do that! I'll get hurt! Pull back. No tongues. Pull back to safety!"

 

See how frustrating this is?

When I point out to her her positive body langauge - she tenses and withdraws as though she let herself slip and must pull up the barriers again.

 

I know we have something special. I know she still loves me. Despite all this, the only person who doesn't seem to know this is my girlfriend!

 

She knows she has run for the hills. She feels her love/trust was betrayed by me. we have discussed it a bit. I want her to understand that I am the same person she fell in love with and that if she exorcises her demons, and I end my death wish spats we can move on but what can I do to help her? And if she won't french kiss me, how do I get our relationship back on track? She's obviously still holding back, mentally and emotionally even though she wants to break free and give in to me.

 

What's the best way to help her? Is it talking? I tried that on New Years Day but to no avail.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the 100,000,000 word essay.

 

J

[kats]

HER fear barriers??????

 

Please do this not for her but for yourslef...you are looking to solve her problems, her fears, you want for her to realise how much potiential you have, you want for her to let go and trust you like before. But what it looks to me is that you have your own issues to solve. It always start with yourself..

 

I have gone thorugh a hard breakup myself and have been struggling to get back on track and feel secure and good about myslef. I realize how much baggage i carry with me and understand my responsibility in my own demise. I still am struggling in letting go of my past relationship and after 5 months of silence we have reopened communication in written form.

 

I sent him a letter that explained how I lived our difficult situation and he responded with a letter that explained and understood the reason why he could not continue the relationship.

 

With these exchanged i had to come to the realisation that I had big issues and was struggling with self esteem. I knew this before but did not sink in well enough...He had to write something that shook me to the core for me to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

The only advice I can give you is this

start looking inward, start opening your deepest core, and look at yourslef. Know your needs and especially know how to express them without juging others.

 

the work I am doing on myself is gut renching, I feel exposed and naked but realise this is my salvation to self expression and honest communication

 

good luck

[vampira]

Like kats pointed out already, you've analysed all of her 'issues' exhaustively. Yet you've admitted to verbal abuse, brat-like behaviour, instability and a bad precedent with past girlfriends... reading it like that, is it really a wonder this girl is holding back? Without sounding like a tired cliche, you have to earn a place in her heart and the more you demand of her, the more she will retract. If you can be someone trustworthy, loving, respectful and mindful of her needs then there would be no barriers, nothing to overcome.

[Ice_9]

Like kats pointed out already, you've analysed all of her 'issues' exhaustively. Yet you've admitted to verbal abuse, brat-like behaviour, instability and a bad precedent with past girlfriends... reading it like that, is it really a wonder this girl is holding back? Without sounding like a tired cliche, you have to earn a place in her heart and the more you demand of her, the more she will retract. If you can be someone trustworthy, loving, respectful and mindful of her needs then there would be no barriers, nothing to overcome.

 

Oh I know about looking in. It's all I've done. But even if I became Mr Perfect overnight, the way she's been feeling, she might not be able/willing to even notice. That is what's the killer. It's outta my hands.

 

Everything that happened, save for the outbust in Orlando were minor.

 

HOWEVER........

 

What you say is true. When I now look back, I can see how it will have been percvieved far worse than how it actually was. As I've been saying "NY Eve was so insignificant" she will have been saying "it's the last straw"

 

The only consolation is that I never did any of this with any ex. When I said I treated my last gf bad, I meant that I broke her heart. I was her first true love. I never felt the same and I just didn't want to hurt her so I kept it going, hoping I'd change. In the end, she just fell deeper in love and so when I eventually told her, it shattered her world. I took away her innocence and that has haunted me ever since.

 

I concur with everything, it just doesn't help me!

 

We started dating again. Week one was fab - surprised us both. It was like old times, sparkles in her eyes, intimate contact, excited phone calls. She even pounced on me sexually.

 

Week 2 was great until the Sat night (21st) when she went distant on me. She didn't grab my hand or lean in (like she idd on other dates) but once in a while, I'd get some glimpses of intimate touching from her. It was as though she was supressing her body language but it came out once in a while depsite her efforts.

Saw her Tues night but not heard from her since. Dunno where the Hell we are. Has she got cold feet - scared of being hurt? Met anyone new?

 

I daren't ask as I don't want to crowd her!

 

 

Lord knows what you make of this but I do agree with all you've said.

 

PS:

Now she said on Sat, she is out with her friend. I am working Fri night so can't see her and I am away on a course the weekend after. This is the 2nd Sat night with her friend in 3 weeks! She never would have gone out with friend on a Sat when we were fine - let alone 2 outta 3!

 

I am angry at this. Is it dispresect? Does she not want me? Is she trying to test me? Is she after space?

 

If I give in - am I being a doormat (thus lose her respect and love?)

If I confront her - am I being a jerk and getting all needy on her? (thus lose her respect and love?)

 

PPS:

And by the way, you have a sexy mouth and teeth ;-)

[Ice_9]

Am also worried about MY defence mechanism kscking in. Last week I was ok as things were going well. Now they are seemingly not so, I am finding it harder to cling on as though my defence mechanism is trying to spare me from heartache and moping as we seem to be going backwards.

 

I saw her Tues and though she put arms around me and close mouth kissed me, there was a lack of intimacy. She no longer leant into me on the sofa or held my hand. She kept her distance like a stranger.

 

I don't want to move on but am afraid unless we start moving in the right direction, I will do.

[somedizzywhore1804]

I dont know why you should be looking inwards for your own faults and insecurities. I dont really see anything wrong in YOUR behaviour at all.

 

So you got angry when she dithered about a christmas tree? Big deal. Everybody knows how stressful it gets when christmas shopping. When you have qeued up for fifteen minutes and somebody is indecisive about a tree only to say she wants to change it when you get to the till. I think you had everyright to be a little bit frustrated.

 

"****ing Hell, get another bloody tree then"

 

Mmmmm that sounds like one serious bad temper you have there? Not!

 

You didnt really go into detail about the Orlando incident but if it is anything like the christmas tree incident I would begin to question your girlfriends maturity. She sounds like a spoilt brat.

 

As for her going out on Saturdays, well your best option is to not say anything or even better tell her you are going out on Saturday before she does.

 

It sounds like she loves you but it also sounds like she is confused as to whether she wants a boyfriend or not. I dont think you said how old either of you are? But it sounds liek she may be quite young and doesnt want to be tied down. Especially if her friend she is going out with is single.

 

I would try not to beat myself up about the previous girlfriend, you did not treat her bad. You ended a relationship because you were not happy. It happens.

 

Again I wouldnt start questioning your own behaviour, to me it sounds like you really love and care for your girlfriend and you havent done anything wrong. You snapped at her over something minor, then apologised. She is now having a hard time trusting you? I think it is her with the issues, she is turning a mountain into a mole hill, which again suggests to me that she is quite young and/or very insecure.

 

Be yourself, be cool.

[Ice_9]

Thx SomeDizzy. I am not proud of the Xmas Tree but I do agree.

Orlando was not nice at all though.

 

I have a new development and dilemma.

 

She officially ended with me on Friday night. She'd been avoiding me and I was getting bad vibes. Her basic line was what was summed up by Vampira and co: she feels pushed too far etc.

 

What was so frustrating was that what she said mirroored the advice I got here yet she wouldn't see this. I pointed out what I knew from the start, and what Vampira and co said, that the love is still there, just that the trust isn't and she's withdrawn out of fear of it happening again.

 

She'd say "they don't know mw. It's not that. I just feel I've been pushed too far and I can't take anymore!".

And this is just what I told her was happening. She couldn't see but would restate it. Word for word. Everything I told her she'd deny and then paraphrase.

 

She also said all the sexy stuff we got up to etc was just her trying. I think she is in denial. When you're trying, you don't get that magic "I'm interested" spark in your eyes, excited "so glad to speak to you" tone in your voice when on the phone.

 

NEW DEVELOPMENT

When I went to return her items on Sunday, we talked of rthe first time in our relationship. She gave her reasons for ending, the cited the obvious which was Orlando, how it broke her heart, and the subsequent spats.

What threw me completely was that she also cited a load of things that just aren't true! I did counter these on the day but they didn't sink in and at one point said I was making excuses.

 

Now this is coming from a 34yr old woman who knows have never lied. I have held my hands up when she's right so I don't live in denial but this was ridiculous.

 

The explanations I give you below, I gave to her too.

 

1) Insecure

She said from the start, she felt I was insecure and checking up on her because when she went on a night out with friends, I'd ask her what he planned to wear, where she would go, how her night went.

 

 

I am amazed at this. I have always just been making conversation. I am just interested. Yes, I liked to imagine her in what she wore and how fab she'd look. Is that so bad?

 

And why would I check on her right at the start, when we were so new and never knew if we'd even see each other the next week?

I was taking each date as they came. I wouldn't risk that by being all creepy and insecure! Maybe she'd had really jealous boyfriends who have done this. I don't know. I only know it's not the case with me.

 

 

2) FOLLOWING HER/INSECURE.

She claimed that, during our first month or so, she'd see me out when she was ona girly night out and that she felt I was keeping an eye on her.

 

This is madness! We would bump into each other but this was right at the start - when we weren't even official going out together. She saw me with a mate after just our 2nd date. Then she saw me with another in November, after 4 dates or so and I think she saw me with on a stag night too. If I was going to stalk her, it wouldn't be right at the start when I didn't even know if we'd see each other again.

 

She said "I never saw you before we dated" but that's because you never knew me. I don't remember seeing her either or her friends or her model/colour of car. But I notice them now.

 

As for always seeing me in the same pub at the same time, that is where I usually end up. And always at around 10 - 10.30pm as we start in another bar and work our way round.

That is why she never saw me in there at 8pm. It's why she never saw me in other bars she frequented - because I never went in them! If she saw me in every bar she went in, shed have a point.

Also, If she never saw me in this particular bar before, then how did I end up getting her number? It's because were there at the same time!

 

Yes, I admit it, when I was out I did look out for her as I knew she'd be out but I NEVER planned it so I could check up on her. There was nothing sinister going on!

If there was, why did I never follow her AFTER we were confirmed as boy and girlfriend? It doesn't make sense to check up on someone BEFORE I invest time, energy and emotion in them! If I ever was going to check up, it would be WHEN I am emotionally involved and scared of being hurt. But this never happened because I never wanted to check up on her.

 

 

3) INSECURE.

She said I showed signs. I deny the above but admitted there were points when I was. She was freaked about people who have short term jobs and for medical reasons, I'd changed jobs twice since I met her and then I was made redundant. This serioulsy pushed her buttons and I WAS scared she'd leave. Prior to that, I'd only had 2 jobs in 10 yrs but she didn't know that - and what with her ex changing jobs, being sacked and eventually turning to crime, she was really scared by this so yes, I was insecure. It's what drove my stress and caused me to explode in Orlando.

 

However, when I would ask her if she loves me or whether she were staring at a guy. That really wasn't insecurity. I'd find it a bit rude to be talking and have her looking elsewhere as if not interested. I am used to it now but at first I wasn't and I called her on it. Also, I have always liked reassurance. Her too. That is why even though we both knew we loved each other, if one of us was about to hang up the phone with out saying "I love you" we'd say "excuse me! Haven't you forgotten to say something?"

 

I DID trust her. I wouldn't have been with her otherwise. Like her, I always had that element of "what if" and I never blinded myself to it as people leave their partners everyday for someone new. Yes, if she wore skimpier, sexy clothes, it increased the chances of guys coming up to her. I knew this but it never really bothered me.

 

 

 

4) JEALOUS.

I wasn't phased by guys chatting her up. I was always surprised when they didn't. I trusted her and looked forward to the details. I wanted the full details not out of jealousy but because I found it amusing.

Yes, I would always make sure by asking if she fancied them but I always trusted. I even used to say to say "Only joking" or "I am half joking". And in the autumn, I even told her I would draw a smiley face on a ping pong bat so I could hold it up to let her know I am joking.

 

ONE time I DID get a bit miffed about her clothes and that was in the summer. Shewent out a few times in some really skimpy tops, short skirts and sexy heels. I only felt a teeny bit miffed and only because at the time, she never wore these outfits with me. I saw her in them just once. It wasn't a big deal by any stretch and I certainly didn't think she were trying to pull. I just felt like I was missing out a bit, that was all.

 

 

5) GOOD TOGETHER.

She said we weren't good for another. Even though we'd be unable to go a day without texting and ringing each other.

 

Of course we were good. Otherwise we wouldn't have had such a fab initial 11 months - despite her crazy assumptions about me following and checking up. We wouldn't have been so keen to say I love you all the time, swap texts and phone one another. She wouldn't have blossomed from a reserved woman into the open and loving, spontaneous, full of love woman that she did if I didn't have a positive effect on her.

 

And she wouldn't have had a similar effect on me.

 

Time flew. We could be serious and we could be goofy. We would spend hours inbed, We fired each other up. We sought each other for love, comfort and when we needed to feel better. We were there for each other. Both trusted and both never lied. Both respected and both loved immensely. We were fab together.

 

We hit some hard times. I was misguided in trying to keep us together. I was seriously misguided and it resulted in the Orlando event and a few others. We never talked about them or handle them right but that doesn't mena we weren't good.

 

 

6) SOMETHING ELSE.

When I said, we'd be going strong without the Orlando event, she was just negative saying, "if it wasn't that, something else wouldhave happened" and this pisses me off because up until then, we were very happy. Now she's pouring doom and gloom everywhere and to assume bad things would definitely happen is unfair!

 

 

 

7) FLARE UPS.

I had one major flare up in Orlando. I was nasty. SInce then there were the 3 others mentioned above. Minor events. Sometimes I felt she was wrong (hence the attitude fromme) and other times I was just plain wrong - it happens! Every couple has these.

 

BUT..........she cited 4 or 5 incidents where she was convinced I would get aggressive and she was terrified yet this was a million miles from the truth!

 

Eg: a month after Orlando, we were driving somewhere. We were running late, the traffic was murder and the weather was horrendous. I was getting agitated. My foot was tapping, I was huffing and puffing etc yet I said to her, calmly, "I am not stressed at you. I am not angry at you. I am just concerned that we aren't going to get there in time due to the conditions. It isn't you. It isn't you".

 

Yet she told me on Sunday that she felt I was having a go at her, at her driving and that I was about to explode! How much clearer could I have been?

She said driving in those conditions was new to her and important for her confidence - but I never knew this! She never said a word!

 

Another time, she pointed out an ex. I was teasing her yet she felt I was getting angry!

 

There are others too but you get the idea. I admit I have been wrong at times but these examples ar ejust ludcirous. She admits she has been on edge since Orlando but she never raised any of this so we could sort out. Now that I did mention it, it didn't make a jot of difference!

 

If I am going to be found guilty - I want it to be right!

 

 

 

8) ARGUMENTS.

We've never argued. Never had an issue we were at loggerheads over. Yes, there'd be the odd spat where I'd sound off but that would be it.

 

Most of my reasoning for our arguments has been down to the stress I was under and the poor tactic I used to handle it - which was the wrong thing to do. Sometimes I thought she were in the wrong. However this does not excuse every spat I had. I am not perfect and sometimes - just sometimes - there was no valid reason for doing what I did.

 

 

9) DOUBTS ABOUT US.

Then she told me she'd had doubts since Orlando. Understandable really but she never talked. And if you don't talk you don't resolve. And most of what she's said has been a million miles from the truth!

 

What with my job changes and job loss, not comfy with introducing me to her parents due job change, getting the wrong ideas about me following her and the Orlando incidents - all of which were never resolved, is it any wonder she had doubts about us or moving in? If none of these happened and she had doubts then fair enough but they did and most of these issues were very sensitive for she and so it's natural to be so wary.

 

 

10) TALKING

Most of the issues she raised I have valid reasons for and most weren't even true. Orlando, the house and some spats I have no excuse for. But none were major. None insurmountable. All could have been sorted by talking. So easy to solve - not like gambling or adultery!

 

It isn't a sign that we are bad for each other. People make mistakes. My main mistake was trying to shield her from the stress. She kept things hidden and they festered so much that she saw things which weren't there.

 

What is so frustrating is that there has never been a major problem with us. All could have been solved by simple communication and most were not even true!

 

 

 

SO...........

 

 

 

 

DILEMMA

I did tell her this On Sunday but she didn't seem to take it in. As said, she said at one point I was making excuses and also believes I am in denial on some things.

 

This angers me as I am willing to let her go but I want her to know the truth. I don't want her telling herself or family and friends untruths. I've always said to people "If you're going to like/love me or hate me, then do it for who I am."

 

Of course I want her back. I want her to miss me and realise she made a mistake. I also know that crowding her and going round/sending emails is only going to push further away and make me seem needy and controlling.

 

It is important to me that she believes me and I am now angry that she could think that way about me. After orlando, I can understand but pre Orlando, I can't. Maybe these issues weren't big before Orlando but after it, she looks back and makes them bigger than they were, I don't know.

 

But as said, I don't care if people like or loathe me, as long as they are justified and I want to send her these points again, in an email. Or pop round. Even though we discussed them on Sunday, there was a lot of emotion and other things and I feel it needs reiterating. Maybe after a few days rest she'll be more open and accepting.

 

Email seems good because I'm not in her face. But in person, I can actually have a two way conversation.

 

And I won't lie, if I can negate 90% of her issues then maybe that will greatly increase the chances of her realising she made a mistake and come back to me.

 

 

What should I do? Should I raise it or have I done as much as I could and retreading won't make a difference?

 

If I should do it, how: email or in person? Tomorro or after a week?

 

 

Just remembered, another frustrating thing, as we were parting, she was crying profusely and was saying "I will miss you so much! I love being with you, your'e great, you're...".

 

I am STILL convinced she loves me. And her saying all this has never been said when I've been dumped before. I find it hard to believe she'd be like this and say those things if she truly didn't feel anything.

 

Anyway, your advice please!

[salmagundi]

There is nothing you can say to make somebody take you back. If you try and talk her into getting back with you she will resent you and want to get away from you. You cannot say anything to make her think you are different. You can only be different. Let her cool off while you go NC. You guys are broken up. Dont be seen in places she frequents, avoid them...don't do anything to seem like a stalker ex. Leave her well alone as she has made up her mind. Only she can unmake. Only giving her space to miss you and reflect will improve your chances. But its probably over anyway so you need to go NC in any case.

 

Dont hound her, dont pester her, dont email her, dont contact her, dont try and "accidentally" run into her, dont phone her...

 

Do worry about your own life, do other things, hang out with other people, let her stew for a bit. This will make you feel more in control of, if not the situation, then at least yourself. Giving into stupid impulses to contact her will make you feel weak and like a jackass. It will make you seem desperate. Hanging back will make you feel in control and strong, as you know that she will be thinking of you and maybe missing you. MAybe not wanting to get back together, but at least she wont be thinking your a clingy, needy pain in the ass...

 

good luck,

 

salmagundi

[lilmoma1973]

 

 

She feels this way cause one way you can be all loving and affectionate and then you explode.. She is loves you but at the same time she is scared of you with your anger!! She loves you but yet she don't know if she should run or stay . She knows you are a good person but you also have this mean streak as well!! The best thing you can do is get your anger under control before it gets out of hand and you end up hurting her physical.. Anger can make us do things we don't realize at the time till after we do it we do.. You need to get it together before you destroy your relationship with her.. When women are treated harsh with words it makes you not want to be with this person and you start to doubt why you are there .. You can love someone but doesn't mean that you have to be with them!! Love isn't the only thing that makes a relationship.. Good luck

[Ice_9]

Hi all,

 

Well, well, well, a new development. I posted last on Tues morning and I agree with what was said about not stalking her. Anyway, I decided "f*ck it! I am really angry about the BS she threw at me. I'm going round tonight and f*ck worrying about how I come across - afer all, we're broken up. It can't get much worse!"

 

So I went round and said "I'm not here to change your mind about how you feel about me. I am just mad that you she could think all this nonsense about me and say I am lying if I deny it. I've never lied to you and you know it. I want people to love or loathe me for who I am. If you're leaving me then you're going to do so knowing just exactly who/what/how I am".

 

It turns out she had been wondering whether she'd done the right thing and also realised some of the things she said were unfair. She said she was glad to see me.

 

I brought up the points I posted here and countered each one and provided evidence so she could see this. She accepted everything I said and also accepted I wasn't making excuses.

 

She also admitted her own shortcomings, like how she has never talked about her issues but has let them fester and do the 2+2=5 thing.

 

This was our first real talk - and about far more than what the unfair accusations I went to tackle her about. It was a breath of fresh air. It's just a shame it's happened when we officially came to an end. She also admits how if it had happened sooner, all this could have been avoided. She also admitted that none of the problems were big at all and that she let them develop.

 

All in all, she isn't as definite about us ending anymore and has asked for more time. I have given her this and will do just that. I will not accidentally bump into her or call her.

 

Interesting to note:

During the week when she went all cold (having made her mind up) she was very reserved in her body language, kept her distance when sitting next to me, didn't feel inclined to kiss me etc.

 

After we had this talk she sat closer to me, leant into me and when we stood up, she threw her arms around me and we kissed (close mouthed) as we continued to talk. SHE was actively kissing ME! On the lips! A lot! As well as on the cheeks and placing her forehead on mine whilst rubbing her nose against mine.

 

Now, considering she thought the love had gone and that she felt that she now loved me as a friend only, her body seems to be telling quite a different story and betraying the true love I believe she really does feel but has suppressed. Not only has she gone all touchy feely but I can't imagine anyone behaving like this to someone if they don't feel more for them than just friendship. And she wasn't doing this before we "cleared the air" on many things.

 

No scriptwriter in the world would go "They're just friends, let's have the woman repeatedly planting kisses on the other guy - even though she doesn't reciprocate his love for her."

 

It seems to me that this close mouthed kissing is her way of being loving whilst still holding back from a safe distance. By close mouth kissing (no tongues) she can protect herself from opening up to me and letting me in - both emotionally and physically.

[Ice_9]

On Tuesday, she came round somewhat, as I posted here, and admitted she jumped to conclusions on things, realised that our problems were minor and were easily avoidable.

 

I went round today, as planned, but she is no nearer to making a decision than Tuesday. I don't expect her to come running back to me, all in love, within a short space of time so I am not unfair or unrealistic. But she is aware that if we are to get back on track she needs to start to bring her barriers down.

 

The love is there but that to get to it, I have to regain her trust that I broke and that sent her into self defence mode. I accept this. This is why our two weeks of dating in early January didn't work because she was unwilling to take that step.

 

As long as she needs and would like to try and resolve, I'll be here but as it is, her barriers mean she is unwilling to try. Despite the progress of Tuesday she started throwing all kinds of unfair comments at me: "I need to now if you are 'the one'?", "If you are 'the one' I'd want to buy a house with you now but I don't. I can't see us living together anytime soon" and "what if? What if it isn't possible to get back on track."

And this last comment came AFTER she admitted that we have no major issues and that save for the past few months, the rest of our time was great!

 

Of course she doesn't want ot buy a house! Not right now. I love her immensely but even I don't feel able to buy a house with her as it is at this moment in time! As it stands, I cannot see us living together in 2 years time because right now, we are not in a good place. Our situation is not strong. In 6 months though, who knows? 6 months ago we were looking at houses with a view to buy. She did have these feelings not so long ago.

 

Additionally, how can anyone give her concrete proof they are 'the one'? I have pointed out that for the first 11 months she thought I was and she has that evidence. And also that we only derailed due to misunderstandings and miscommunication which is easily remedied. It's crazy she may be reluctant to accept the past year with me where she felt all this and try again - for fear of wasting time - yet would spend this same time and energy on a total stranger who may last just a few months. At least with me, she has the closest she will have to concrete evidence.

 

But when I point any of this out, it falls on deaf ears. As she is the only one who can overcome her barriers, what can I do - not just to hopefully get us back on track but also for her, even if that is still to walk away.

 

I am here if she wants to try but if she can't confront her barriers, there is no point in me being here because she won't open up. Even if I was magically transformed into the most perfect man in the world, she wouldn't see it.

 

Is this a Mexican Stand Off?

[Ice_9]

I think time is up now. I am losing my patience and feel it's a lost cause. I still maintain all I said, that she does love me but what can you do when she does what she's doing?

 

We had 1 issue: my outbursts. Yet as a result, she got all negative due to the knock on effect: can I buy a house if he is going to snap? If I can't buy a house, what future do we have? etc

 

Now, she just is just focussing on the negatives and making small issues seem huge and insurmountable. I accept I should be questioned over my snap in Orlando but n ot when she throws garbage like I mentioned in above posts.

 

The latest? She has a door that needs to be shut gently due to loose plaster. She also insisted I take my shoes off at the door to prevent dirt on the rug. I did this most of the time. Very occasionally I'd just forget. I am only round her house once a week, But now she sees it as all the time and a clear indication I have no respect for a nice home and no respect for her.

 

I know it upsets her but it's not a deal breaker! It just requires reinforcing new habits by way of gentle reminders. Nothing insurmountable! Yet to her it's the be all and end all.

 

Weeks ago, when she told me how badly Orlando affected her, we agreed to talk about it. We never did. Each time I tried, she was tired, not in the mood or whatever.

 

Then when I accepted the break up but went round to put her straight before I said goodbye. As it came clear she had misperceived and assumed wrongly, she wanted to rethink about us and we agreed to talk about any fears or thoughts to avoid this in the future.

 

She never did. A week went by and I heard nothing. I assumed no thoughts had crossed hermind then on Sunday, she let some slip (rug and door examples above) and these were total garbage! Worse still, she hinted at others but wouldn't discuss them.

 

It was always the Orlando bust up that caused her to question us. We seemed to put this behind us but now, minute issues are springing up and are weighted unfairly. Seems to me as soon as I knock one fear down, another springs up and I can't win in a situation like this.

[notmakingsense]

Ice -- if it is meant to be, it is going to happen without you needing to put so much energy into convincing her. She has to arrive at the decision on her own... WITHOUT YOUR HELP.

 

Anything else you do to try to convince her at this point will just hurt you. Besides, do you really want to be with someone who isn't choosing you of her own accord? How long do you think a relationship with her will last if the both of you can't see eye-to-eye on these things?

 

This relationship may stand a chance, but the ball is in her court -- not yours. Stay away from her. If she doesn't come after you, you need to move on.

[Ice_9]

Considering your name is notmakingsense, you do make a lot of sense.

 

I know you are right. Everytime I give her that space, she'd call and let slip some totall BS and I just am unable to let that go! It's like "you what? How the Hell do you figure that? if that was the case then......." and then I am off.

 

The strange thing is, she asked for time to rethink us. She agreed to talk about her concerns to see if she's right (usually she gets 7 from 2+2) and to see if they can be placated. But then she doesn't. She lets slip these BS points and admits this keeps her in the "I think it's over" zone.

 

Then she says, "let's have a day together to gauge things" but when these issues are unresolved, when she is not coming from behind that emotional wall and not trusting me, she is unable to feel anything and so only reinforces the part of her that says "yup, it's gone, move on".

 

A number of counsellors have said that as she's shut off (through fear of being hurt again) she will need to open up in order to trust again in order to lead to love. Whilst she's behind that wall, nothing will happen as her defence mechanism is going "he'll hurt you again. Run away!"

 

A few times we met, I bit my lip but then she'd comment about how she hasn't changed. But then, tellingly, a week or so later, she admits she never really committed or opened up. So we decide to try again. But if we don't talk....then the same is just going to happen and I don't want to lose her. I certainly don't want to lose her if it could be saved by her trying and stepping out of her comfort zone.

 

I don't knwo what to do. We were supposed to meet up last Sunday. I called that day and nicely put it to her that we will need to talk (otherwise we're wasting our time) and she went off saying "there you go again! Why do you do this? Why can't we just chill out?" and so we never met up.

 

We are suppsoed to go out this Sunday but what's the point if she's still in that comfort zone? She has zero chance of coming round unless she steps out and faces her fear of potentially getting hurt again. But if I mention anythng beforehand, then that will drive her away.

 

To be honest, I don't want to meet up. I am in a no win situation and if I have lost her, I won't do it so meekly - going on a date that is dead before we even start - being written off by being nice and too polite to say what needs saying.

 

Then there's the flip side, if I do go, there may be a small miracle she has changed. Or, more realistic, go along and savour the last date ever and say goodbye at the end.

 

So there's possible pros and cons to going.

 

But this applies to not going too. On one hand, don't go, it's a waste of time. It also might shock her into stepping from behind her 'wall' as it may hit home "****! He's going! I didn't expect this!"

 

Conversely, not going might mean I'm blowing a chance to win her around. The miracle may have happened and she'd realise she wants me......if only I went. And if it is our last chance, isn't it best to go on the dtae and enjoy it rather than tell her it's off - only to get in an argument and end on a bad note?

 

My head hurts!

[notmakingsense]

So there's possible pros and cons to going.

 

But this applies to not going too. On one hand, don't go, it's a waste of time. It also might shock her into stepping from behind her 'wall' as it may hit home "****! He's going! I didn't expect this!"

 

Conversely, not going might mean I'm blowing a chance to win her around. The miracle may have happened and she'd realise she wants me......if only I went. And if it is our last chance, isn't it best to go on the dtae and enjoy it rather than tell her it's off - only to get in an argument and end on a bad note?

 

My head hurts!

 

Ice -- Given your state of mind, I wouldn't go out with her, and I'd break off all contact. Consider this relationship as OVER. If she wants to get serious about things again, she'll tell you that explicitly.

 

If you do decide to go out with her -- you do need to chill out -- because going out with her without her commitment means you have decided to have a relationship on HER terms (or rules). In my opinion, this will drive you crazy, which is why I'm recommending you just move on at this point.

[Ice_9]

Thx.

 

I'm not a kid. We had serious plans. We were going to buy a house this year. To acknowledge it's over. Well, that hurts.

 

 

Thx

[datboispiggs]

Find A New Piece Of Ass. You know thats all you want right now anyway. You're young. Skeeya