Do women understand men?

[alphamale]

Hate and bitterness never do anybody any good.

agreed....but hate and bitterness are a part of life and you must accept both. They are actually necessary evils which can only be negated by taking away all emotion.

[SmoochieFace]

They are actually necessary evils which can only be negated by taking away all emotion.

 

They can be negated by indifference... andf indifference works very well indeed. It makes some people even nuttier than ever when faced with it.

[blind_otter]

agreed....but hate and bitterness are a part of life and you must accept both. They are actually necessary evils which can only be negated by taking away all emotion.

 

I agree to a certain extent, but they can be overcome. If I continued to allow the bitterness towards men that I felt for many years to be inside my heart, I wouldn't get laid as much as I do, nor would I simply enjoy men like I do.

 

I get kinda irritated when I see people allow themselves to become bitter like that. I feel like, if I could get over it, after being violently victimized multilple times in my life, other people can, too. You let it take you over. It never "just happens". That's BS justification and everyone knows it.

[Woggle]

Hate and bitterness are a product of feeling powerless. When you feel powerless you lash out. One of the steps in becoming a stronger person and taking power over your own life is letting go of the hate.

[lindya]

Hate and bitterness are a product of feeling powerless. When you feel powerless you lash out. One of the steps in becoming a stronger person and taking power over your own life is letting go of the hate.

 

I think that's often the hardest part for people, because hatred and bitterness are their last remaining ties to the lost person. Letting go of them involves accepting that that person is no longer relevant to your life, and you're no longer relevant to theirs. It's not easy.

 

Maybe people often deny their emotions, or claim to feel "nothing" in the hope that saying it will make it so. Especially if they're surrounded by people who regard any expression of emotion with carefully cultivated expressions of horror (in order, presumably, to demonstrate that their own minds are as healthy, pristine and uncomplicated as a fresh covering of snow in the Swiss Alps....)

 

I remember telling a friend that I'd found myself wishing something really horrible would happen to my ex. I fantasised about being told he had died, and shrugging nonchalantly in response to the news. The friend was horrified. I explained that I knew it was an ugly way to feel, I didn't want to feel that way - and was trying to address it - but I wasn't going to lie about the thoughts I had.

 

Yes...you have to let go of the hate, but sometimes before you can do that you have to honestly acknowledge that you're feeling it.

[Nur]

As an engineering major, there are about nine guys for every girl in my classes. Almost all of my friends are guys, and I've come to drop a lot of preconcieved notions about them, and, though I realize I only come into contact with a certain branch of men (the ones interested in engineering) they vary greatly within that group.

 

Some are the jerky kind, who cheat on women (or are too insecure to persue one in a serious relationship), are obsessed with porn, and enjoy har-harring over dirty jokes. When I am in a group with them, they don't show much respect for my input, or label me as some sort of librarian nerd (which I am certainly not) just because I don't have multitonal blonde hair or speak like a Valley Girl. I get the impression they are trying to make up for some sort of insecurity. Too afraid to lower their shields and present themselves for who they really are, they try to turn everything into a superficial joke or just pretend to banish emotion completely and wholeheartedly support that view of "men are strong and nonchalant." They can't handle a true relationship; instead, they turn to viewing women as objects or property and fail to recognize them as equal humans. Fortunately, since engineering requires a substantial deal of intelligence, there are few of these. Sounds like you've run into one or two, Jen.

 

Then there are the normal kind. They have emotions, and once you get to know them, they'll talk about them to you. There are actually very few differences between them and girls, except that they tend to have a higher interest in robotics, cars, computers, and video games, etc. and don't care much about clothes, for example. Just the typical difference in interests. But I don't find them to be particularly stoic. They also don't have that feeling of competitiveness that I feel when around a group of girls, where so many words are veiled by deciet, and half of them will stab you in the back as soon as smile at you. Guys tend to be more straightforward and accepting.

 

Yeah, pretty much all guys I meet find sex important (if that topic ever comes up), but not to the exclusion of emotion. Some of them are shallow jerks who will screw anything that breathes (and sometimes doesn't breathe) but there are lots of the "good" kind too. You just have to look! (Not in bars). Granted, some of them don't understand women doublespeak, or think our occasional hormone-driven irrational behavior is bizzare, but I find that if I am blunt and open with them, and warn them that "it's that time" when they look at me funny, guys and girls can get along fine. They are not that mysterious or complicated, as a whole. I've always had to feel like I was pretending around girls -- with guys, I can just be myself. I like 'em.

[Woggle]

As an engineering major, there are about nine guys for every girl in my classes. Almost all of my friends are guys, and I've come to drop a lot of preconcieved notions about them, and, though I realize I only come into contact with a certain branch of men (the ones interested in engineering) they vary greatly within that group.

 

Some are the jerky kind, who cheat on women (or too insecure to persue one in a serious relationship), are obsessed with porn, and enjoy har-harring over dirty jokes. I get the impression they are trying to make up for some sort of insecurity. Too afraid to lower their shields and present themselves for who they really are, they try to turn everything into a superficial joke and wholeheartedly support that view of "men are strong and nonchalant." They can't handle a true relationship; instead, they turn to viewing women as objects or property and fail to recognize them as equal humans. Fortunately, since engineering requires a substantial deal of intelligence, there are few of these. Sounds like you've run into one or two, Jen.

 

Then there are the normal kind. They have emotions, and once you get to know them, they'll talk about them to you. There are actually very few differences between them and girls, except that they tend to have a higher interest in robotics, cars, computers, and video games, etc. and don't care much about clothes, for example. Just the typical difference in interests. But I don't find them to be particularly stoic. They also don't have that feeling of competitiveness that I feel when around a group of girls, where so many words are veiled by deciet, and half of them will stab you in the back as soon as smile at you. Guys tend to be more straightforward and accepting.

 

Yeah, pretty much all guys I meet find sex important (if that topic ever comes up), but not to the exclusion of emotion. Some of them are shallow jerks who will screw anything that breathes (and sometimes doesn't breathe) but there are lots of the "good" kind too. You just have to look! (Not in bars). Granted, some of them don't understand women doublespeak, or think our occasional hormone-driven irrational behavior is bizzare, but I find that if I am blunt and open with them, and warn them that "it's that time" when they look at me funny, guys and girls can get along fine. They are not that mysterious or complicated, as a whole. I've always had to feel like I was pretending around girls -- with guys, I can just be myself. I like 'em.

 

This is a great post. I think that men and women have more in common than both genders would like to admit. This whole battle of the sexes is just dumb to me. My fiance and a platonic friend at work have taught me that not all women are like my mother and an ex.

[Becoming]

My experience with men is similar to Nur's. And I agree, W. We have more in common than we differ, so why do we focus on difference so much (OK , well, other than that! )

[SmoochieFace]

We have more in common than we differ, so why do we focus on difference so much (OK , well, other than that! )

 

Because the *macho dudes* and feministas are threatened by any overlap in the two sexes. Separate yet equal from the feminista perspective and separate yet UNequal from the *macho dude* perspective.

[serial muse]

They also don't have that feeling of competitiveness that I feel when around a group of girls, where so many words are veiled by deciet, and half of them will stab you in the back as soon as smile at you. Guys tend to be more straightforward and accepting.

 

Yeah, pretty much all guys I meet find sex important (if that topic ever comes up), but not to the exclusion of emotion. Some of them are shallow jerks who will screw anything that breathes (and sometimes doesn't breathe) but there are lots of the "good" kind too. You just have to look! (Not in bars). Granted, some of them don't understand women doublespeak, or think our occasional hormone-driven irrational behavior is bizzare, but I find that if I am blunt and open with them, and warn them that "it's that time" when they look at me funny, guys and girls can get along fine. They are not that mysterious or complicated, as a whole. I've always had to feel like I was pretending around girls -- with guys, I can just be myself. I like 'em.

 

This kind of reverse generalizing isn't particularly helpful, either, Nur. It's unfortunate that you've met women you don't connect with, but please don't extend that to all women. Like many many other women, I have many great women friends that I feel happy and comfortable and can just be myself with.

 

Bottom line, I think Woggle's right: men and women have much more in common than they like to admit. That includes behaving irrationally at times, as well as being blunt and open at times.

[Nur]

My experience with guys has also completely debunked some people's theory that it is impossible for guys and girls to be friends, without something else always developing. It's all in the dynamic. Some guys interact with me by play-flirting (it's not serious), and a lot take on the "big brother" role. They all act gentlemanly around me, and are courteous, and they try to watch their mouths (and usually apologize when they forget). A few have hit on me, yeah, but not most. Guys take it in stride that I already have a boyfriend, and lots of them already have girlfriends, and none of us treat each other differently for it. I would be willing to wager that nothing would change were something to happen between me and my boyfriend, except maybe that those who were already interested might start trying to move in.

 

My guy friends, for the most part, are just that. Guy friends. Not only is it possible, but it's more common than not. And sometimes things do develop from friendship, but if it does, it's rare, and very strong. If it happens, it means you are attracted to the person because you know and love who they are -- you are not just attracted to your image of them, or their appearance alone. My boyfriend and I, actually, were close friends for three years before going out, and the sparks just happened to fly, and very powerfully at that. IMO, I wouldn't want it to happen any other way.

 

So I guess the moral, if there is one, is don't be afraid to make opposite gender friends. Guys are good people, and fun to spend time with, and nothing romantic needs to develop between you for you to enjoy being friends. If something does, then it's a rare and wonderful occurance, not something to shun or try to avoid. So what is there to lose? Make a lot of nice, open, fun friends, and maybe find a best friend and lover among the lot! And let me tell you, if some guy is only with you because he thought, "Damn, what a hottie!" then he can just as easily think that about someone else. If he respects you, and sees you as a special person, and thinks you are beautiful and holds you close to his heart, the pretty faces around him just won't seem as eye-catching anymore.

 

The one situation that can be potentially painful is if you find yourself deeply attracted to someone as you get to know them, and that person only views you as a friend. There is a chance of them beginning to return the feelings once they know you, and find who you are attractive in that way. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. But for my part, I think it's a wonderful feeling when a friendship takes a deeper and sweeter turn -- after being friends with my now-boyfriend for two years, he started making subtle and patient moves, and I found myself beginning to feel the same way, and just decided to give the relationship a shot. Now he's my best friend as well as the person whose mere sight warms my heart, and I have no doubt in his love for or his loyalty to me. The guys that walk up to me now and throw lines like, "What up, baby/cutie/insert cheap phrase here" or honk and wink at me from their cars just seem so low and common, and make me even gladder to have someone like I do. I can't believe that some girls take them up on that and start flirting right back. Eew.

[Nur]

This kind of reverse generalizing isn't particularly helpful, either, Nur. It's unfortunate that you've met women you don't connect with, but please don't extend that to all women. Like many many other women, I have many great women friends that I feel happy and comfortable and can just be myself with.

 

Oh, I do too! Before I went to college almost all of my friends were girls. But I wasn't exaggerating that half will stab you in the back as soon as smile at you, especially if they think you are pretty or potential "competiton" for guys. Those girls usually ignored me, since I wasn't dating, but I saw it happening all around me.

 

My little sister, for example, has a shapely figure with a pretty face, C-boobs, and an ample butt, but a poportionally thin waist. She looks healthy, and all the guys think she's hot. Almost all of her girl-friends are venemous to her, or gang up on her, or make up rumors to say about her in front of guys, or will walk up to her and poke her when she's talking to a guy and say things like, "You're fat." The guy will just roll his eyes (most aren't impressed, and know the girl is full of crap, though I guess some think it's amusing that girls are so transparent).

 

Granted, I don't like her choice of friends. When I was in school, I just hung out with a group of girls that were nice people, and weren't much interested in dating at the time, and it worked. (Though girls like that are hard to find). But my sister's friends date (even though she doesn't) so she is at the center of sophomore-level nails, claws, and envy. She's such a sweet person, and they do their best to make her miserable with a sickly-sweet grin on their faces the whole time -- not always a direct, bitchy move, just the typical decietful back-stabbing. "Gosh, your butt is so big... Hey, do you want to go to a movie?" Count yourself lucky if you haven't experienced it, but the more jealous those kinds of girls are of you, it seems, the more they'll either try to 1.) chum up to you to try to bask in your glory or 2.) tear you apart.

 

This is all based on experience, and the tears my sister brings home so often. Not all girls are like this, no, but many, many are, though most seem to grow out of it as they get older. Or at least I am assuming so -- the ones I meet in engineering seem pretty sane.

 

Basically, college is a lot better than high school. People are much better once they grow up a bit.

[serial muse]

Basically, college is a lot better than high school. People are much better once they grow up a bit.

 

Yes, I totally agree. But you're comparing teenage girl behavior with college-age guys. So maybe your guy friends are lucky that you know them now, and not when they were in high school? There are lots of catty/asinine guys out there too, who grow out of it once they get a little less insecure.

 

Just to clarify, what I was responding to was when you said:

 

I've always had to feel like I was pretending around girls -- with guys, I can just be myself.

 

which I find unfortunate. But I might also point out that you're in an engineering program, and as you eloquently said, you've gotten to know lots of different types of guys. There probably aren't nearly as many girls in your program, so it's just not going to be a fair comparison. But I agree that it is a nice demonstration that, if you just have the opportunity to hang out casually with people of the opposite gender, you can be friends.

[Nur]

you're comparing teenage girl behavior with college-age guys

 

That's true. And I have to admit, I knew some of the exact same guys when I was a sophomore in high school, and they were so narrow-minded and dull that they bored the heck out of me. I used to eat lunch with a group of them (I wasn't really their friend, I was the friend of a girl who liked one of them, so I sat with her) and they literally talked about three topics: computers, cars, and video games, Every. Single. Day. That's it. Gaaaah. I thought I'd go crazy sometimes. And now they've learned to speak about broader and more girl-friendly topics, and we're really good friends.

 

Hopefully girls are the same way, and outgrow that high school claw-your-eyes-out bitchiness. I wish I knew more of them, so I could see for myself. One would hope that they'd get past it. Until then, I'm happy with my guy-friends.