Why nice guys finish last

[CaliGuy]

[/i]

actuallly it should be more like:

 

Q: What do you call an intelligent, good looking, sensitive man?

A: Something that most women would have no idea WTF to do with!

 

Haha. Knocks them for a loop, doesn't it? How dare a guy be intelligent, good looking, sensitive and fun?!

 

My Ex always said I was too good to be true.

[LBC]

Q: What do you call an intelligent, good looking, sensitive man?

 

A: A rumor

 

hey thats me

 

but my name isnt Rumor

[basscatcher]

hey thats me

 

but my name isnt Rumor

 

:lmao: Rare? :lmao: Lost? :lmao: What's in a name?

[noclobber]

So what are you saying - that *type* of men do not exist? Or all three of those qualities cannot possibly be found in a single man?

 

she hasn't met me yet

[LBC]

 

:lmao: Rare? :lmao: Lost? :lmao: What's in a name?

 

we are out there.

 

but I am the quite guy in the corner. albiet married, but if I was single, I would assume women would think I am the "insecure" type because I am quite and reserved and not "out" there or give off confidence.

 

BUT, since I am married, and having M issues, I have come to the conclusion, that my WAY was good for a while for her, but my wife has become bored with me and my reservedness.

 

What can I do? to change that. She is attrached to, like most women, the confident outspoken type, but at the same time she likes the soft teddy bear type (me).

 

women, you want it all, but want to pick and choose when and what you want your man to be like.

 

I wish I had a device that could let me when I need to be sensitive and when I need to be assertive. Or when I should compliment her and when I shouldnt, I say that because, one day she will say dont I look good in this shirt or why didnt you say i looked good today. Then the next day I tell her who beautiful she is and she comments back wiht a attitude of, is that all i am to you? beautiful and hot?

 

mid 30's and i still cant figure her out.

[basscatcher]

track a journal monthly for about 3 months and see if there is a pattern with her menstral cycle. You may then get a little clue as to when to be affectionate more or when to be sarcastic playful. or when to kinda back off.

 

if you are the quiet type start speaking up with your opinions.

 

don't know.. but its at least a start if you want to try to understand her.. Marriage can get boring.. Going through the same old routine day after day... Come up with some off the wall things to do out of the blue and don't let her back out of it unless she has a really good excuse. Be genuine in how you feel about her and let her know...... I'm sure you can look back and see things you did to win her.. WELL You STILL need to do things like that once in awhile.. Get out of your routine..

[Pyro]

so then I should avoid attractive women? is that what you're saying?

 

I disagree with your beliefs. Not all attractive women are out for a guys money. I agree that the shallow and the one's needing dependency may go for a guys wallet, but a level headed female will like the guy for who he is.

[basscatcher]

I disagree with your beliefs. Not all attractive women are out for a guys money. I agree that the shallow and the one's needing dependency may go for a guys wallet, but a level headed female will like the guy for who he is.

 

EXACTLY---- I am not the most attractive woman in the world but I believe I AM level headed and I have a big heart. I don't care about the pocket book (as long as he can support himself without going debt.) I am into the man not the money.....

[witabix]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I would like someone to define "finish last".

 

Does that mean alone?

 

Or does it mean doomed to flit from woman to woman.

 

The bits of this thread I have read are quite emotionally uninformed.

 

I would also like someone to give a definitive explantaion of a "Nice guy". The OP gave his thoughts. The description sounded like a psychotic moron.

 

I am not a nice guy by the OP's defintion.

 

I text my SO regularly, morning, during the day, and last thing at night. Or she will text me. We spend every weekend together. I would never show up on anyone's doorstep without an invite.

 

I am always on time, I never check out other women when I am with my SO. She holds my attention.

 

I would change a babies diaper, did it just recently when looking after my new nephew.

 

I have sung to my SO's new nephew and niece (twins) whilst feeding them.

 

I am in touch with my feminine aspect. I am not ashamed of that.

 

There is so much macho nonsense spouted about "real men". And to be fair there is an equal amount of nonsense spouted by the fairer sex about all men are jerks.

 

Nice guy? What DOES that mean? I have never been described as such. Because I am not.

 

No woman has ever held me in such regard as to say anything even remotely like that, they would be lying if they did.

 

All my SO's have been able to point out my flaws as a person, my old aggressive and violent (towards other males) tendencies, my erstwhile over use of alcohol, my distance, coldness and apparent aloofness.

 

I have listened to all these negative comments and I have considered what they all have said. I mean really thought about it. The things they said had some validity and it has changed me as a man.

 

Yes thats right I listen to women and change if they have a point.

 

I am not anyone's idea of perfect, but I live, listen, and learn.

 

I am not last, but then again I haven't finished yet, and I am definately NOT a nice guy.

[Pyro]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I would like someone to define "finish last".

 

I text my SO regularly, morning, during the day, and last thing at night. Or she will text me. We spend every weekend together. I would never show up on anyone's doorstep without an invite.

 

I am always on time, I never check out other women when I am with my SO. She holds my attention.

 

I would change a babies diaper, did it just recently when looking after my new nephew.

 

I have sung to my SO's new nephew and niece (twins) whilst feeding them.

 

I am in touch with my feminine aspect. I am not ashamed of that.

 

There is so much macho nonsense spouted about "real men". And to be fair there is an equal amount of nonsense spouted by the fairer sex about all men are jerks.

 

I am not anyone's idea of perfect, but I live, listen, and learn.

 

I am not last, but then again I haven't finished yet, and I am definately NOT a nice guy.

 

This is the definition of a real man. He is not afraid to be himself, knows that he is not perfect and that he makes mistakes, is not afraid to realize those flaws and improve himself by learning from the mistakes.

 

Anyone who believes that money and success is what gets you an attractive women, on the inside and out is just afraid of themselves. They are just afraid to show any imperfection to others and do not have 100% confidence in thereselves, so they have to resort to making up stories to make themselves sound better then what they really are. This isn't a movie, this is real life, so there is no acting necessary.

 

The last paragraph is just my HO of course.

[jerbear]

well said padameckla and witabix.

[a.Muse]

I dated a self-professed "nice guy" who always felt that girls went for the "bad" boys who treated them poorly - but hey the bad boys got laid and got loads of game. He never stopped to think that these other guys were just as insecure and had way more issues than he did - how can anyone be so blind not to see that men who treat women poorly do so because they are afraid they will not have the appeal otherwise. Major issues there.

 

He always said that girls viewed him as the "nice" guy and hated it. I think I made a huge mistake by being with him. He was so insecure that he used it as an excuse to cheat on me with someone who approached him in a bar. I always felt so blessed to have met him and to be with him and to share my life with him because he was so perfect in so many ways (The "Nice" Guy) But, he gave it all up so he could feel like a "bad" boy. Well, now he's ruined the best thing that he's ever had because of it.

 

The moral of the story. Life is too short, love yourself for all the good that you are. You'll never forgive yourself if you don't. Nice guys never finish last unless they think so.

[CaliGuy]

Read the first link in my thread. It shows you the difference between being nice, balanced and a jerk.

[noclobber]

I dated a self-professed "nice guy" who always felt that girls went for the "bad" boys who treated them poorly - but hey the bad boys got laid and got loads of game. He never stopped to think that these other guys were just as insecure and had way more issues than he did - how can anyone be so blind not to see that men who treat women poorly do so because they are afraid they will not have the appeal otherwise. Major issues there.

 

He always said that girls viewed him as the "nice" guy and hated it. I think I made a huge mistake by being with him. He was so insecure that he used it as an excuse to cheat on me with someone who approached him in a bar. I always felt so blessed to have met him and to be with him and to share my life with him because he was so perfect in so many ways (The "Nice" Guy) But, he gave it all up so he could feel like a "bad" boy. Well, now he's ruined the best thing that he's ever had because of it.

 

The moral of the story. Life is too short, love yourself for all the good that you are. You'll never forgive yourself if you don't. Nice guys never finish last unless they think so.

 

That's fantastic!

[hyakku]

So explain this then... why are *nice guys* considered *weak*? What is it about them that would make them poor candidates for propagating the species? Is there something about their sperm that is lacking somehow? Are you suggesting that women avoid *nice guys* for fear that if they mate with them they will produce stillborn or defective children?

 

Explain it, please...

 

 

Woo ironically, there ARE studies going on about this exact question. I am glad you asked. There's a book called sperm wars, and in it is an interesting segment.

 

http://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/SpermWars.htm

 

Baker (1996) discovered evidence that human male sexual psychology has evolved to respond to the prospect that his mate has been inseminated by another man during his absence. He found that the volume of sperm a man ejaculates while having sex with his partner is unrelated to how long it has been since he last had an ejaculation; the important variable is the length of time that has passed since he last had sex with his wife. The volume of sperm may be as much as three times that of normal if the man has been separated from his wife for a long period of time. If the men were in proximity of their wives during a similar period and were sexually abstinent, their subsequent ejaculate did not show the same rise in volume. Baker & Bellis (1993, 1995) also found that female orgasm plays a role in sperm competition. When a woman has an orgasm the uterus starts to contract rhythmically, causing sperm to be drawn into the cervix; a kind of vacuuming effect. If a woman has had intercourse with several men within a short period of time, the sperm of the man associated with her orgasm has a much higher probability of fertilizing her ovum than that of men whose copulation did not result in orgasm. When we couple this finding with Thornhill’s data, showing that women have more orgasms with symmetrical men than with less symmetrical men, and with the findings of Gangestad and Thornhill (1998), showing that women during the time of their ovulation show a preference for the scent from symmetrical men, we can see a connection between sperm competition and female mate choice.

 

Again I try not to blab my mouth off about things without having any backing .

 

To the woman who said an intelligent, good looking and sensitive guy is impossible, if you find a confident guy, thats entirely possible. I think people are thinking too much in extremes, like if a man is sensitive he must be in touch with his feminine side, love nature, wanna say "I love you" 4,000 times a day, etc, then your just asking for a wuss.

 

Edit: Oh and this:

 

I think you're a tad jealous.

 

I can see that happening to you. You approach a *hottie* and Jerbear says "Uh-huh, dude... she doesn't want you" and then he and his female friend walk off together smiling and laughing.

 

Hell, I'd pay to see that. It's fun watching arrogant egos get squashed.

 

One, if some guy did that to me, I might be tempted to spit in his face or punch him, simply because whats arrogant to him may not be to the woman, who is he, her father? Again, she may not be digging him but she can tell him that herself, and as long as he hasn't stepped over any lines (i.e. offending her, touching her, etc), then you're just being a needy chump to interrupt someone trying to talk to a woman.

 

Second, isn't it funny how people automatically assume that if you aren't a "nice guy" then you are an overly arrogant bastard? Sorry, but you sound more jealous than he does.

[jerbear]

One, if some guy did that to me, I might be tempted to spit in his face or punch him, simply because whats arrogant to him may not be to the woman, who is he, her father? Again, she may not be digging him but she can tell him that herself, and as long as he hasn't stepped over any lines (i.e. offending her, touching her, etc), then you're just being a needy chump to interrupt someone trying to talk to a woman.

 

Well, the truth comes out. He did cross the line; I intervened. Scare the **** out of him that someone intervened. It wasn't just me that intervened. Yes I am her guardian, moral fiber, designated driver, wing man, and great friend. I got her back. If some people were to try to take her home; ain't happening that night. No date rape or any other issues from overly hormoned egotisitcal males. She's there to have fun, dance, not go home with someone. BTW spit and punch are two different things. Doesn't bother me if you spit. If you want first blood, here is a drop. If you punch or touch either one of us. Don't worry about me, worry about HER immediately! I'll just brush it off, first one's free, get a drink and give it to her when she's ready. With me, mostly harmless but you better go find an excellent lawyer capable of handling federal cases for assaulting an official.

 

Arrogant, nah; confident, yeah; people watch and drinks; few dollars; seeing the assailant KOed... priceless

 

So far, never had to resort to the spitting and punching. Moral of the story, they might have friends who got their backs.

[hyakku]

Well, the truth comes out. He did cross the line; I intervened. Scare the **** out of him that someone intervened. It wasn't just me that intervened. Yes I am her guardian, moral fiber, designated driver, wing man, and great friend. I got her back. If some people were to try to take her home; ain't happening that night. No date rape or any other issues from overly hormoned egotisitcal males. She's there to have fun, dance, not go home with someone. BTW spit and punch are two different things. Doesn't bother me if you spit. If you want first blood, here is a drop. If you punch or touch either one of us. Don't worry about me, worry about HER immediately! I'll just brush it off, first one's free, get a drink and give it to her when she's ready. With me, mostly harmless but you better go find an excellent lawyer capable of handling federal cases for assaulting an official.

 

Arrogant, nah; confident, yeah; people watch and drinks; few dollars; seeing the assailant KOed... priceless

 

So far, never had to resort to the spitting and punching. Moral of the story, they might have friends who got their backs.

 

AS long as you aren't ruining legitimate guys game, then thats cool, arrogant bastards sure, but if you are just ruining a confident guys game thats wrong. Sorry for misunderstanding you. .

[alphamale]

I wish I had a device that could let me when I need to be sensitive and when I need to be assertive. Or when I should compliment her and when I shouldnt, .

LBC....why don't you just say whatever you feel like whenever you want and forget about what she thinks? that is what she really wants...

[HotCaliGirl]

LBC....why don't you just say whatever you feel like whenever you want and forget about what she thinks? that is what she really wants...

But don't we (women) want guys to also say what WE want to hear? Sometimes we want compliments and to hear nice things so it wouldn't fly if he said whatever he felt like whenever he wanted to...

[alphamale]

But don't we (women) want guys to also say what WE want to hear? Sometimes we want compliments and to hear nice things so it wouldn't fly if he said whatever he felt like whenever he wanted to...

I did not say to NOT give compliments or NOT say what she wants to hear. He should just say them whenever and however he feels like it. A man who is uncontrollable is quite attractive to most females.

[SmoochieFace]

One, if some guy did that to me, I might be tempted to spit in his face or punch him, simply because whats arrogant to him may not be to the woman, who is he, her father? Again, she may not be digging him but she can tell him that herself, and as long as he hasn't stepped over any lines (i.e. offending her, touching her, etc), then you're just being a needy chump to interrupt someone trying to talk to a woman.

 

Your behaviour in that case would demonstrate that you are a complete moron. The girl in question could do much better.

 

 

Second, isn't it funny how people automatically assume that if you aren't a "nice guy" then you are an overly arrogant bastard? Sorry, but you sound more jealous than he does.

 

Uh... who's assuming that? Not me... I have said before that *nice guy* and *arrogant bastard* are extremes. Most guys fall somewhere in between. i happen to be in between as well.

 

As far as being jealous... sorry, but I'm in a relationship. If I wasn't in one then I still would have nothing to be jealous over. Jealousy isn't a part of my life.

[SmoochieFace]

AS long as you aren't ruining legitimate guys game, then thats cool, arrogant bastards sure, but if you are just ruining a confident guys game thats wrong.

 

Interesting statement...

 

If we subscribe to the *dog eat dog* mentality (and it seems that many of us do) then who the hell cares if someone's *game* is being ruined. Just looking out for numero uno, right?

 

If that means I destroy some hotshot's ego or game or whatever then oh well... such is life.

[jerbear]

Take this as a cliche, stereotype, arrogant nice guy, change of pace, etc..

 

In regards to *dog eat dog* mentaility, it is a matter of objectives. The rules have changed and the other "dog" doesn't know. Both guys have competing objectives, my objective she goes back to her place w/o another guy.

 

Not everyone goes to a club or bar to pick up people. Nice guys do go there for other reasons. Watch, drink, or enjoy the music.

 

Objectives:

 

Girls: dance, have fun, drink. Not go home with a guy from the place. (Already predetermined and agreed upon, they can get his number and call him later that week but not that night)

 

Mine: drink, watch, enjoy the music, complete the girls objectives. Not go home with a girl from the place.

 

Chat guy: bed, friendly, arrogant, confident, whatever. Objective inconsequential. (I don't care & he is not going home with any one of them; even if the girls are drunk & uninhibited)

 

I'm being the nice guy, friend and "one of the girls." My friends are there to have fun, dance, and drink. She can feel safer, make friends strike up conversations; but not go home with the guy or take him home. At a bar, many guys (with alcohol buzz) may believe that she wants to get picked up, wants to have sex, and is playing hard to get. Arrogant or overly confident guy chats her up, dances, then crosses the line, she signals or struggles, boom intervention.

 

Did this nice guy finish last, nope dont think so; I completed my objectives for the night.

[witabix]

Take this as a cliche, stereotype, arrogant nice guy, change of pace, etc..

 

In regards to *dog eat dog* mentaility, it is a matter of objectives. The rules have changed and the other "dog" doesn't know. Both guys have competing objectives, my objective she goes back to her place w/o another guy.

 

Not everyone goes to a club or bar to pick up people. Nice guys do go there for other reasons. Watch, drink, or enjoy the music.

 

Objectives:

 

Girls: dance, have fun, drink. Not go home with a guy from the place. (Already predetermined and agreed upon, they can get his number and call him later that week but not that night)

 

Mine: drink, watch, enjoy the music, complete the girls objectives. Not go home with a girl from the place.

 

Chat guy: bed, friendly, arrogant, confident, whatever. Objective inconsequential. (I don't care & he is not going home with any one of them; even if the girls are drunk & uninhibited)

 

I'm being the nice guy, friend and "one of the girls." My friends are there to have fun, dance, and drink. She can feel safer, make friends strike up conversations; but not go home with the guy or take him home. At a bar, many guys (with alcohol buzz) may believe that she wants to get picked up, wants to have sex, and is playing hard to get. Arrogant or overly confident guy chats her up, dances, then crosses the line, she signals or struggles, boom intervention.

 

Did this nice guy finish last, nope dont think so; I completed my objectives for the night.

 

I completely fail to understand why you would put yourself in such a dangerous position.

 

Do you consider yourself as a bodyguard to these women?

[jerbear]

I completely fail to understand why you would put yourself in such a dangerous position.

 

Do you consider yourself as a bodyguard to these women?

 

I am not their body guard, I am their friend, the issue was settled before going to the club. I am with them to make sure they go home that night; not with an oversexed male. The girls know what happens when you put alcohol, oversexed males, women, date rape drugs, and the legal system. They are wise beyond their age (and mine). My objective is to bring them home without oversexed males.

 

I'm not worried about what happens to me. I could be an elected official covered under the Pat Act which means guys in dark sunglasses, ear pieces, and black suits will pay you a visit at work. (they are not the scary ones, the ones you don't see are the scary ones) It is a small world out there. I might not look intimidating but my friends are. As in, don't worry about me now, worry about her now. I wouldn't even want to PO her family.

 

As I was the one watching, I know who and where your friends are. Other than brute strength, I'll know if they are armed. Which I would have intervene way before the guy crossed the line. Most men (outside of DC) at a bar wouldn't care about a wall flower, people watcher enjoying the music. Just doesn't fit your typical stereotype. One does not know who I am, what I do, other than I maybe creepy? crazy? strange? or just drunk sick

 

Since I didn't return a punch (1st one is free), didn't incite a riot, didn't disturb the peace. I didn't do a thing... I just intervened by saying an important phone call and gave her the phone; which was what I did. Her other friends went around him, bouncer and all. They knew, he didn't know. Like I said, I'm not the one to worry about, she is the one to worry about. All I did was serve as interference. Would you guys spit or punch me if she got a call? Would you hit me if she tells you she is watched over? I would have made you guys confused.

 

If you make an attempt to hit me, looks like you are there to pick a fight, because you didn't get the girl you wanted.

 

Would I put myself in this dangerous position again, yeah. I do that for my good friends. It helps to know who is there, who I am, and why we are there. The rules have already been drawn, just not the ones oversexed males subscribe to. Oh you guys probably thought I was the insecure, nice guy in the corner? ahh.. the frustration.

 

If the girl didn't struggle or make a signal; nothing would have happened.