stuck in the muck

[midori]

I first posted on this site several weeks ago because I was upset that my ex-boyfriend was unwilling to communicate with me. I was puzzled and angry because he was the one who ended the relationship and I found it hard to believe that, months later, he could be in such pain about the break-up. He said that he "wasn't over me" and that he just couldn't handle talking to me on the phone or even emailing me. I wondered what was going on, why he wasn't willing to even be my friend, and I was resentful – after all he'd put me through, why couldn't he come through for me in this small way? I felt rejected all over again, that not only was I not enough for him to love but that I wasn't enough for him to even bother with friendship. He segued easily into friendship with some of his previous exes, why not me? I was looking for some answers (which he couldn't provide).

 

The responses I received to that posting showed me that I wasn't even fully aware of (or willing to acknowledge) all of the questions I was really asking. I wasn't just asking why my ex wasn't able or willing to be my friend (although that was and is a genuine question). I was also asking "can it be that he wants me back?" and the other questions that naturally follow in its wake. And while I've calmed down quite a bit, these questions are still very much on my mind. What is going on? What is this guy saying?

 

I know that long posts can be tiresome so I'll try to condense the relevant background. His parents went through a nasty, bitter divorce a couple of decades ago, it has had lasting and tangible effects to this day. His way of dealing with that has been to put an ocean between himself and his family, and pursue his career. He is successful. He is a caring person with a wide circle of friends. He is also very afraid of emotional intimacy and has constructed his life in such a way that no one really gets through his barriers – not even his closest friends – because he seems so self-sufficient and not in need of anyone's support or concern. I was the only person who saw through that facade. It's not surprising, really, that he'd run from me (he did three times before this final break-up) because I threatened the structure he'd built for himself, a structure that allowed for affection but not for real trust or love. Those are things that he wants (real trust and love) but to have them he'd have to reassess the conclusions he's made about life and love and commitment that have allowed him to marginalize his family. In short, this is a guy with a lot of deep-rooted, long-standing issues.

 

He knew that there were things that were keeping him from fully loving me (or anyone) and which would eventually sabotage our relationship, and that's why he broke up with me. In time I came to see the wisdom of his decision and I now agree that it was for the best. I needed some time to come to terms with things and I was the one who initially requested to cease communication for a while. A month later I was ready to talk to him, but he said he needed a little more time. By this time I'd accepted that the break-up was necessary. Two months after that I tried again, and was again rebuffed – that was when I posted my query on this site. I haven't tried to get in touch with him since, and I won't. I do respect his feelings, and I appreciate that he has a need and a right to heal from this, as do I. I don't want to create further unhappiness for him. I'm just wondering what he's about.

 

During our last email exchange he told me that he's "trying to sort his being out at the moment" and that being in contact with me would not be helpful to that effort. He said that he can't imagine knowing me but not being sexually involved with me. He said that he finds me so "loveable" that he cannot think of me as just a friend, and that it will be terrible for him to learn that I've found someone else. And that is what I don't understand. If having to let go of me is creating such misery for him, why on earth wouldn't he do something about it? I just don't understand why anyone would allow something to destroy their happiness without a even fight. And if it 's not worth fighting for how can it cause so much pain?

 

I have of course talked about this at length (ad nauseam in fact) with my friends and family. Understandably they are more or less against him and would like to see me forget him altogether. I recognize that there is a lot of wisdom there and I would like nothing better than to put it out of my mind. Unfortunately that's easier said than done; it's still unresolved in my mind for some reason. I still love this man immensely. Obviously it's not easy to let go of love, but my problem seems to be compounded by the fact that I'm hearing two messages from him: "I don't want/can't have a relationship with you, but at the same time I do want and hope to have a relationship with you in the future." Is this a classic commitment-phobe's trap, wanting the object of their affection to stay in orbit without having to make any promises? Then there's the precedent set by his previous break-ups, which were always (until now?) followed by a return to me with greater self-awareness and determination to see it through on his part. I am doing my very best to move on but I feel stuck. I could use some objective perspective here. On the one hand, he is clearly cutting me out of his life. But there seems to be a contradictory message behind that, that he is trying to pull himself together so that he can re-engage with me – or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

 

I feel like I have two choices at this stage: to hang onto my feeble hope that he will come around, or to villainize him in my mind as a pathetic, self-absorbed jerk who has insulted me beyond forgiveness. One choice sees me continuing in unhappy loneliness, but I don't think I could actually manage the other because I know in my heart that it's not true. So how do I get out of this? Any insight into what might be going on with him would be greatly appreciated. Or advice about how I can put this behind me. If time is the only answer, so be it. But it's been more than 5 months now and I'm just so tired of it eating away at me.

 

Thanks to you all for your patience.

[Artlover]

Hi Midori:

 

My heart went out to you when I read your post. I don't think you should hold out hope that you and your ex will get back together in the future OR villanize him as a jerk. I think you just need to let that situation go...as hard as this is. It's only been 5 months. Five months is no time. I'm not sure how long you two were together, but it took me 3 years to get over my 6 year relationship and I broke up with him!

 

Just give yourself time and let him be. I know this is hard. These questions are pretty obvious but...do you have a job you like or a career you're building? Hobbies? Friends? Travel? Throw yourself into these opportunities and when you're ready, start dating again. SLOWLY. You must let your ex go. You can't control whether he talks to you or not or when. And it's probably better if you don't talk to each other given the feelings I suspect you still have for him. It's time to move on, COMPLETELY. I'm sorry if this wasn't what you wanted to hear and it's just my opinion.

 

If it's really eating you up, perhaps therapy would help to get to the crux of why you're having such a hard time letting him go. Chances are it has less to do with your ex than you think. I wish you the best of luck!

I first posted on this site several weeks ago because I was upset that my ex-boyfriend was unwilling to communicate with me. I was puzzled and angry because he was the one who ended the relationship and I found it hard to believe that, months later, he could be in such pain about the break-up. He said that he "wasn't over me" and that he just couldn't handle talking to me on the phone or even emailing me. I wondered what was going on, why he wasn't willing to even be my friend, and I was resentful -- after all he'd put me through, why couldn't he come through for me in this small way? I felt rejected all over again, that not only was I not enough for him to love but that I wasn't enough for him to even bother with friendship. He segued easily into friendship with some of his previous exes, why not me? I was looking for some answers (which he couldn't provide). The responses I received to that posting showed me that I wasn't even fully aware of (or willing to acknowledge) all of the questions I was really asking. I wasn't just asking why my ex wasn't able or willing to be my friend (although that was and is a genuine question). I was also asking "can it be that he wants me back?" and the other questions that naturally follow in its wake. And while I've calmed down quite a bit, these questions are still very much on my mind. What is going on? What is this guy saying?

 

I know that long posts can be tiresome so I'll try to condense the relevant background. His parents went through a nasty, bitter divorce a couple of decades ago, it has had lasting and tangible effects to this day. His way of dealing with that has been to put an ocean between himself and his family, and pursue his career. He is successful. He is a caring person with a wide circle of friends. He is also very afraid of emotional intimacy and has constructed his life in such a way that no one really gets through his barriers -- not even his closest friends -- because he seems so self-sufficient and not in need of anyone's support or concern. I was the only person who saw through that facade. It's not surprising, really, that he'd run from me (he did three times before this final break-up) because I threatened the structure he'd built for himself, a structure that allowed for affection but not for real trust or love. Those are things that he wants (real trust and love) but to have them he'd have to reassess the conclusions he's made about life and love and commitment that have allowed him to marginalize his family. In short, this is a guy with a lot of deep-rooted, long-standing issues. He knew that there were things that were keeping him from fully loving me (or anyone) and which would eventually sabotage our relationship, and that's why he broke up with me. In time I came to see the wisdom of his decision and I now agree that it was for the best. I needed some time to come to terms with things and I was the one who initially requested to cease communication for a while. A month later I was ready to talk to him, but he said he needed a little more time. By this time I'd accepted that the break-up was necessary. Two months after that I tried again, and was again rebuffed -- that was when I posted my query on this site. I haven't tried to get in touch with him since, and I won't. I do respect his feelings, and I appreciate that he has a need and a right to heal from this, as do I. I don't want to create further unhappiness for him. I'm just wondering what he's about. During our last email exchange he told me that he's "trying to sort his being out at the moment" and that being in contact with me would not be helpful to that effort. He said that he can't imagine knowing me but not being sexually involved with me. He said that he finds me so "loveable" that he cannot think of me as just a friend, and that it will be terrible for him to learn that I've found someone else. And that is what I don't understand. If having to let go of me is creating such misery for him, why on earth wouldn't he do something about it? I just don't understand why anyone would allow something to destroy their happiness without a even fight. And if it 's not worth fighting for how can it cause so much pain? I have of course talked about this at length (ad nauseam in fact) with my friends and family. Understandably they are more or less against him and would like to see me forget him altogether. I recognize that there is a lot of wisdom there and I would like nothing better than to put it out of my mind. Unfortunately that's easier said than done; it's still unresolved in my mind for some reason. I still love this man immensely. Obviously it's not easy to let go of love, but my problem seems to be compounded by the fact that I'm hearing two messages from him: "I don't want/can't have a relationship with you, but at the same time I do want and hope to have a relationship with you in the future." Is this a classic commitment-phobe's trap, wanting the object of their affection to stay in orbit without having to make any promises? Then there's the precedent set by his previous break-ups, which were always (until now?) followed by a return to me with greater self-awareness and determination to see it through on his part. I am doing my very best to move on but I feel stuck. I could use some objective perspective here. On the one hand, he is clearly cutting me out of his life. But there seems to be a contradictory message behind that, that he is trying to pull himself together so that he can re-engage with me -- or is that just wishful thinking on my part? I feel like I have two choices at this stage: to hang onto my feeble hope that he will come around, or to villainize him in my mind as a pathetic, self-absorbed jerk who has insulted me beyond forgiveness. One choice sees me continuing in unhappy loneliness, but I don't think I could actually manage the other because I know in my heart that it's not true. So how do I get out of this? Any insight into what might be going on with him would be greatly appreciated. Or advice about how I can put this behind me. If time is the only answer, so be it. But it's been more than 5 months now and I'm just so tired of it eating away at me. Thanks to you all for your patience.

[midori]

Thanks, I think you might well be right about therapy. I'm in a new city, starting a doctoral program at a very good school -- I've got a lot of good things going on now and on my horizon so it's especially troubling to find that this is on my mind as much as it is. In my heart I think I know that moving on is the only answer. And while no one ever said it was supposed to be easy, my unhappiness and inability to let go really seem excessive to me. I was wondering if that's normal (we were together for 3 years,) or justifiable given the circumstances. I've been considering therapy and if this continues for much longer I shall certainly pursue it.

 

Thanks Artlover, for sharing your wisdom and for your empathy. It helps even if, as you correctly perceived, I was hoping for some kind of revelation that would feed my hope that things will work out between me and my ex. Feedback is essential, I need more voices than my own to batter down this bizarre hope that just won't die.

[Dragonflys]

Well for starters he is not a 'pathetic, self-absorbed jerk who has insulted me beyond forgiveness'.

 

He loves you a lot judgeing from his reaction, and judging from your reaction you love him a lot as well. He is in a situation where he is miserable not having you in his life, but he would also be miserable if he had you in his life the way you are now. You didn't give details why he broke up with you, but I get the impression he did either because there were uncompromisable differences between you, or that he felt you would leave him and put him through even greater pain in the future.

 

If there any way you could resolve the differences you have, then there is a lot of love there. If he is a commitment phobic, then he should see a therapist because he will go through the same thing again with another person.

 

I think you two either should get together and find out what is required to get back together, or you should walk away and put this completely behind you. Mulling around being unhappy about him being around and not in your life will put you in a rut forever. Get your life back.

 

I can completely understand why he cannot face you and be friends with you, it seems like the feelings between you are increadibly strong. How will he feel when you find another man?, by getting you out of his life he can slowly recover and start getting the strength back to date other women and find the love that he has lost again.

[marzipan75]

Hi Midori,

 

I know it's probably not what you want to hear right now but I think you need to let him be. You say it's been five months and yes some time has passed there but under the circumstances you just can't measure how long it takes people to get over one another. It's been two months and I still have feelings and think about my ex all the time. You were together for a while so I think that's also a big factor in why it's taking longer for this guy to get over you.

 

Although you may feel like you are over him and are strong enough to handle a friendship with him, he is most certainly not. If he is the one that ended the relationship, and now he's the one having trouble getting over it, to me it suggests that maybe there were issues regarding the relationship ending that he did not deal with as quickly as you did.

 

It may be hard but I think you need to ask yourself why you want to remain friends with him. Are you sure it is not because you still have feelings for him? Be honest with yourself, there's no shame in admitting that you still have feelings for someone you dated. It sounds like he has a lot of issues regarding intimacy that he just can't get past right now and part of that includes the intimacy he used to share with you.

 

For me, friendship with my ex is not possible and I don't know if it will ever be. You know my story already, after 8 years of being together my ex cheated on me and removed me from his life in one night. I don't know if I am still angry about that or not, it's hard to say really but I think it's a bit of both. It's difficult to see someone in a different way once you've been intimate with that person. It's like crossing a line and then trying to go back. It's usually a difficult process as I'm sure you've been told already.

 

The only way I can think of for you to be able to understand why it is so hard for him is to ask you to think about when you two first broke up. Think about all those feelings of fear and jealousy that you might have had at the thought of seeing your ex with someone new. For me, it made me nautious to think about it. I think this is similar to what your ex must be experiencing and if so then it's not a good idea for him to maintain a friendship with you right now.

 

The important thing is that he knows your feelings and that you don't wish him any harm and would like to be friends. Now that he knows, leave the rest to him. I think the fact that you want to be friends with him shows both that you are moving forward into a good direction and that you genuinely cared about him. You should not take it to necessarily mean that he is still in love with you and start thinking that maybe there is still a possiblitiy of getting back together. Don't do that to yourself. You are doing so well, don't let yourself get into that mode because you will begin denying yourself the opportunities you deserve to meet new people.

 

He can't move on if you two are still in eachother's lives confusing eachother about whether or not you should get back together and many times this occurs when people become friends after being involved. At least one of the people invovled ends up developing the same feelings for the other all over again and it creates more mess.

 

Regarding your choices, I don't think you need to villify him in order to stay away from him. Just think of him as still being really hurt by the situation and confused and right now he is too confused to talk to you. You don't have to hate him, just don't talk to him. He is not playing any games here, he is being honest and that is something you need. To be honest myself, I don't think you need to be friends with him right now either. Maybe in the future you can be but not right now. I think that not enough time has passed yet and the fact that he is not ready should send signals to you that it's just not meant to be right now.

 

Try to use that as your basis for not talking to him. I know it hurts that he is not willing to be friends right now but under the circumstances, I don't know that you can blame him for that. Think about it. You said it yourself in your post, there had to be a good reason for the break up in the first place. It's not a break up if you are still together. Just try to relax and give it time. I think that being friends right now would really be a step back for you no matter how strong you feel. Think about it. Are you ready to hear about women he's dating? Do you think you can handle seeing him with someone new? You may think you can handle it but until it actually happens you never know how you really feel. I've known people who thought they could handle it and then find themselves in a wave of jealousy and old feelings that rush back to them when they see a former lover with someone new. You just never know what will happen there.

 

So my advice is that if you want to stay strong and move on, stay away from him for a while. He will call you when he is ready and then you can see how you feel.

 

Take care of yourself Midori, let me know how you are doing. Try not to let this get the better of you, turn the focus back on yourself and away from him.

 

Marz

I first posted on this site several weeks ago because I was upset that my ex-boyfriend was unwilling to communicate with me. I was puzzled and angry because he was the one who ended the relationship and I found it hard to believe that, months later, he could be in such pain about the break-up. He said that he "wasn't over me" and that he just couldn't handle talking to me on the phone or even emailing me. I wondered what was going on, why he wasn't willing to even be my friend, and I was resentful -- after all he'd put me through, why couldn't he come through for me in this small way? I felt rejected all over again, that not only was I not enough for him to love but that I wasn't enough for him to even bother with friendship. He segued easily into friendship with some of his previous exes, why not me? I was looking for some answers (which he couldn't provide). The responses I received to that posting showed me that I wasn't even fully aware of (or willing to acknowledge) all of the questions I was really asking. I wasn't just asking why my ex wasn't able or willing to be my friend (although that was and is a genuine question). I was also asking "can it be that he wants me back?" and the other questions that naturally follow in its wake. And while I've calmed down quite a bit, these questions are still very much on my mind. What is going on? What is this guy saying?

 

I know that long posts can be tiresome so I'll try to condense the relevant background. His parents went through a nasty, bitter divorce a couple of decades ago, it has had lasting and tangible effects to this day. His way of dealing with that has been to put an ocean between himself and his family, and pursue his career. He is successful. He is a caring person with a wide circle of friends. He is also very afraid of emotional intimacy and has constructed his life in such a way that no one really gets through his barriers -- not even his closest friends -- because he seems so self-sufficient and not in need of anyone's support or concern. I was the only person who saw through that facade. It's not surprising, really, that he'd run from me (he did three times before this final break-up) because I threatened the structure he'd built for himself, a structure that allowed for affection but not for real trust or love. Those are things that he wants (real trust and love) but to have them he'd have to reassess the conclusions he's made about life and love and commitment that have allowed him to marginalize his family. In short, this is a guy with a lot of deep-rooted, long-standing issues. He knew that there were things that were keeping him from fully loving me (or anyone) and which would eventually sabotage our relationship, and that's why he broke up with me. In time I came to see the wisdom of his decision and I now agree that it was for the best. I needed some time to come to terms with things and I was the one who initially requested to cease communication for a while. A month later I was ready to talk to him, but he said he needed a little more time. By this time I'd accepted that the break-up was necessary. Two months after that I tried again, and was again rebuffed -- that was when I posted my query on this site. I haven't tried to get in touch with him since, and I won't. I do respect his feelings, and I appreciate that he has a need and a right to heal from this, as do I. I don't want to create further unhappiness for him. I'm just wondering what he's about. During our last email exchange he told me that he's "trying to sort his being out at the moment" and that being in contact with me would not be helpful to that effort. He said that he can't imagine knowing me but not being sexually involved with me. He said that he finds me so "loveable" that he cannot think of me as just a friend, and that it will be terrible for him to learn that I've found someone else. And that is what I don't understand. If having to let go of me is creating such misery for him, why on earth wouldn't he do something about it? I just don't understand why anyone would allow something to destroy their happiness without a even fight. And if it 's not worth fighting for how can it cause so much pain? I have of course talked about this at length (ad nauseam in fact) with my friends and family. Understandably they are more or less against him and would like to see me forget him altogether. I recognize that there is a lot of wisdom there and I would like nothing better than to put it out of my mind. Unfortunately that's easier said than done; it's still unresolved in my mind for some reason. I still love this man immensely. Obviously it's not easy to let go of love, but my problem seems to be compounded by the fact that I'm hearing two messages from him: "I don't want/can't have a relationship with you, but at the same time I do want and hope to have a relationship with you in the future." Is this a classic commitment-phobe's trap, wanting the object of their affection to stay in orbit without having to make any promises? Then there's the precedent set by his previous break-ups, which were always (until now?) followed by a return to me with greater self-awareness and determination to see it through on his part. I am doing my very best to move on but I feel stuck. I could use some objective perspective here. On the one hand, he is clearly cutting me out of his life. But there seems to be a contradictory message behind that, that he is trying to pull himself together so that he can re-engage with me -- or is that just wishful thinking on my part? I feel like I have two choices at this stage: to hang onto my feeble hope that he will come around, or to villainize him in my mind as a pathetic, self-absorbed jerk who has insulted me beyond forgiveness. One choice sees me continuing in unhappy loneliness, but I don't think I could actually manage the other because I know in my heart that it's not true. So how do I get out of this? Any insight into what might be going on with him would be greatly appreciated. Or advice about how I can put this behind me. If time is the only answer, so be it. But it's been more than 5 months now and I'm just so tired of it eating away at me. Thanks to you all for your patience.

[midori]

Hi Marzipan,

 

Thanks for your good advice! It really does help to hear these things, even if they are things that I more or less already know to be true. I'll get myself on track for a few days, even a few weeks, and then find myself drifting back into wondering, hoping and general angst. Not surprising in some ways I guess because unfortunately my ex was never able to give me any kind of meaningful closure. As with the previous times he broke up with me he couldn't articulate why he was doing so -- I practically had to give him the words myself. He was panicked and confused and that's never a good state to make decisions in ... so I suppose it left me thinking that with some time & space he may have realized (again) that he made a mistake.

Regarding your choices, I don't think you need to villify him in order to stay away from him. Just think of him as still being really hurt by the situation and confused and right now he is too confused to talk to you. You don't have to hate him, just don't talk to him. He is not playing any games here, he is being honest and that is something you need.

VILLIFY! That's the word I was looking for. Villainize is of course not a word but I couldn't remember what the verb form was. Thank you. And you're right. The best course is that tricky, middle road of accepting that things are what they are even if I don't like them. I guess I just feel that after all I tolerated in that relationship that I should at least be able to put it behind me sooner rather than later. But I clearly have some more things to learn here or I would have moved on already. I'm stuck I suppose because there's something I have yet to realize, possibly about myself, not because of anything my ex is saying/not saying. I do still love him. But that doesn't matter.

Think about it. Are you ready to hear about women he's dating? Do you think you can handle seeing him with someone new? You may think you can handle it but until it actually happens you never know how you really feel. I've known people who thought they could handle it and then find themselves in a wave of jealousy and old feelings that rush back to them when they see a former lover with someone new. You just never know what will happen there.

Very very true. I am looking for closure, as quickly as possible, and news that he's found someone else would be, I thought, an irrefutable indicator that it's over for real and for good -- and that then I could move on. But you may well be right that such news would only cause me further & deeper hurt, especially if I'm hanging onto this not because of the mixed signals he's sending (if they are in fact mixed signals) but because of something within me that's preventing me from moving on.

So my advice is that if you want to stay strong and move on, stay away from him for a while. He will call you when he is ready and then you can see how you feel.

And that's good advice, I know.

Take care of yourself Midori, let me know how you are doing. Try not to let this get the better of you, turn the focus back on yourself and away from him.

Thanks so much Marzipan. As you know all too well, it's not an easy thing to go through. Regardless of how things work out for me & my ex, friends or not, I got a lot of good things from our time together. But maybe the usefulness & significance of our relationship has run its course. I shall try to bear that in mind going forward.

 

Thank you.