Cakeman

[zoey15]

This is an article I found the other day. I hope it helps some of you out there. It definietly helped me. It will be a week since I told him goodbye and I've never felt so good about the decision. I know I will never look back!!

 

Cakeman

Dr. Roger A. Rhoades

 

 

There is no telling how many men at any given time are cheating on their wives. To get an accurate reading would be almost impossible. You would have to ask men about something that they normally lie about and then expect them to tell the truth.

 

Probably the best way to get an accurate reading is to ask men how many of them feel they have been driven to an affair by their wives. I am sure men would be more than glad to own up to being a victim of circumstance and not having been the bad guy in the situation.

 

As long as men keep looking to blame someone or something for their infidelity, women will be lost on how to change their cheating ways.

 

It is hard to say how many men get into a marriage for all the wrong reasons.

 

They want to have someone to have their babies.

They want to fit in with other people in their social circle.

They want to have someone to be at home with them, now that they no longer live with their parents.

They want someone to take the place of their mothers and baby them.

 

No matter what the reason, some men do not get in a marriage to be faithful. These men see their wives as the next step on the ladder of adulthood. They have become unable or unwilling to keep up the pace of single life, but do not want to give up the thrill of the chase.

 

These men are what I call Cakemen.

 

 

Cakemen are men who want to have their cake and eat it too. These men do not leave their wives. These men stay with their wives and date someone else at the same time.

They like the fact that they can have someone stable at home, taking care of business, while they continue to play single guy with other women.

 

They have no real desire to leave their wives and move on to someone else, unless their activities are discovered.

 

If they are discovered, many of these Cakemen dump the girlfriend and stay with the wife, only to go back to cheating once the dust has settled.

 

In a man's way of thinking, staying with his wife makes all the sense in the world.

 

If he leaves his wife, then they will have to split up their possessions as well as their bills. In many times it takes a man several years to recover from this.

 

On the other hand, if he keeps the wife, he gets to keep his lifestyle going with only a minor glitch. The minor glitch is that he will have to act like he is real sorry, dump the old girlfriend, wait awhile, and then go back out and find a new girlfriend.

 

One of the major reasons men become Cakemen is because they do not want to grow up. It takes a mature adult to handle the day to day responsibilities of a monogamous relationship.

 

When a man has to see a women everyday and negotiate bills, affection, cooking, cleaning, shopping, and personal undesirable behavior, he longs for a simpler way of living. He wants to be a grown up, but somewhere in his soul he wants all the benefits and none of the responsibility.

 

Having a woman on the side allows him to play two different roles at the same time. In his mind the pressures of married life can be released by having a sexual relationship with someone else.

 

In his marriage he can play responsible man and co-decision maker, while in his affair, he can call all the shots and be the lord of the relationship.

 

The second major reason a man becomes a Cakeman is to keep the feeling of being a player.

 

When a man gets married, many times he sees himself as being caught or conquered. It is now time for him to go out to pasture and be used as a stud service.

 

In his eyes, he is slowly, but surely becoming his dad. His days of being a major competitor are over. It is easy to see how this type of thinking would make a man feel old before his time.

 

One of the easiest and most available ways to feel young and in the game is to get into an affair. Now he is desirable. Now he is a man's man.

 

He is now feeling young and, even though his conscience might be bothering him, the thrill of being a player certainly outweighs those negative thoughts.

 

The final reason that men cheat on their wives, but don't leave them, is that it is a safety net.

 

Very few men get excited about a full blown gamble. They want to believe that they at least have a 50/50 chance of winning. If there is any way to stack the cards in their favor, they are going to do it.

 

This is the thinking behind having a wife and a girlfriend. If for some reason a man's wife is unwilling to be affectionate when and how he wants, then he has his girlfriend to take up the slack.

 

If a man wants to be the center of attention and the mister know-it-all, but his wife deflates his ego, then he can go to his girlfriend for a good dose of hero worshipping.

 

It is not just the wife who gets the short end of the stick, the girlfriend also suffers. At some time, most girlfriends who have heard a man say he hates his wife will entertain the subject of divorce or even marriage.

 

When a Cakeman is confronted with this issue, he is able to make excuses and fall back into a dilemma of commitment or what is the "right" thing to do. This position successfully keeps the girlfriend at bay for fear that she might lose him.

 

The sad part of all this behavior is that seldom if ever does everyone come out on top. Usually one or more people suffer deep, long lasting wounds from this type of situation.

 

Some women are unable or unwilling to trust another man after being with a Cakeman.

 

These men also suffer from this type of behavior. They never really grow up and take their place in a responsible society. They fill their lives with lies and deceit, which in the long run affect their coping skills and their performance on a job.

 

Women are putting their lives on hold in hopes that their Cakeman will finally leave their wife and make them the center of their lives.

 

Finally, if children are involved, the destruction is unbelievable. Counseling offices are filled with children who either caught their father with another woman or had to live in a family where lying was the major form of communication.

 

The best advise is to play your life honestly. If a relationship is over, then bury it. If you are in a marriage and have met someone else, think before you act.

 

The emotional stability you save might be your own!

[BUTAFLY]

WHAT AN AWSOME ARTICLE.!! Ya know My exMM tried to express this some of these things but I didn't listen.

 

No matter what the reason, some men do not get in a marriage to be faithful. These men see their wives as the next step on the ladder of adulthood. They have become unable or unwilling to keep up the pace of single life, but do not want to give up the thrill of the chase.

 

exMM said his ex wife was remarried and he felt she was moving on and it was time he also grew up. He decides to get married to feel like an adult but didn't know he was going to meet me in the process. ok i'll accept that i guess.

[lilmoma1973]

 

Awesome article never looked at it that way thanks for sharing with us!

[newbby]

love doesnt figure at all in this article, neither for wife nor ow. i wonder if there is more emotion in cakemen than this suggests. interesting.

[No Stress Lady]

Good article - thanks for posting.

 

I think he makes some excellent points - lots of MM are exactly like this - one MM that I know is similar - has a lot of love and affection for his wife and would never leave but loves female company and is, I feel, fighting the onset of middle age!!! He's a really nice guy but I don't think he'll ever grow up!!!!

 

Maybe for some people marriage just is too rigid an arrangement and they need the escape that an affair provides - it just seems to be the OW who get too attached and dependent on this type of guy who get hurt. The man in a truly unhappy marriage would leave - kids or not.

[zoey15]

Good article - thanks for posting.

 

The man in a truly unhappy marriage would leave - kids or not.

 

Notice you said "the man" in a truly unhappy marriage would leave. To me these cakemen are not stepping up to the plate to be responsible men, responsible role models for their children, or a responsible husband to their wives.

 

They are acting childish, immature and pulling any woman (other woman that is) down that is willing to put up with their crap. What does that say about the OW?

 

Don't any of you OW out there feel stupid?

[zoey15]

Don't any of you OW out there feel stupid?

 

I ask this, because I felt like an absolute dumbass to have let my situation go on for nine months. I don't know what I thought, but I'm glad I realized early enough to have learned it was not going to get me happiness.

 

I mean, I feel so educated and beautiful with all other areas in my life, except what I was doing.

 

I don't want to wake up a single woman at 35 or 40 and wonder what happened. Why hasn't he choosen me over her? **** that!

 

I guess I'm just very mad at myself right now. I just need to vent.

[LucreziaBorgia]

love doesnt figure at all in this article, neither for wife nor ow. i wonder if there is more emotion in cakemen than this suggests. interesting.

 

Some cakemen do love their wives and love their OW too - but not in the sense that most people can accept. What is key to understand about the cakeman is how the cakeman thinks and feels emotions. The cakeman compartmentalizes his emotions. His emotional capacity is like a puzzle - there are pieces that he sets aside purely for his W and pieces he sets aside purely for his OW. Some pieces (like the purely sexual aspects) overlap as the cakeman will have sex with both W and OW. Some emotional pieces will overlap, but for the most part they are separate. Some pieces fit only for OW, and some only for W. He needs all the pieces to feel that his needs are being met, hence why he'll stay married while having affairs. If he leaves his W for OW, the cakeman will have some empty OW puzzle spots, and soon will be looking to fill them because he has shifted the OW into the W spots, leaving the OW spots open again.

 

Is that to say he doesn't love? Sure he can love, but only in the compartmentalized way that he is capable of. For most people, fidelity is a huge part of love. For the cakeman, it is as well - but fidelity only within the compartments in which he keeps his OW and his W. That's why cakeman will flip if either W or OW cheats on him! He has a need to have his women faithful to him because in his mind he has separated the two so finitely that he is faithful in W ways to his W and faithful to OW in OW ways. They are different for him. He feels little or no guilt because he feels he is providing emotionally in the ways that he needs to be for each person he is involved with.

 

Is it right? Is it fair? Not for the women involved, certainly. - the pain is bad for anyone involved with a cakeman who wants him to put down the other piece, and in a painful situation it helps to take a peek in how the 'enemy' thinks in order to unravel the pain and try to move on. Sometimes it takes a realization that true cakemen are not going to put down any cake, not for long anyway - it comes down to either accepting this emotionally split man as he is and is capable of providing (which some OW do, and consider themselves HOW - "happy other women" and some W do as well and simply live knowing that their husband, while straying will continue to stay her husband - fairly bleak if fidelity is a primary need for the women involved).

 

Now, not all MM are cakemen. Some are not compartmentalized at all. Some MM do leave - they are the ones who are not happy in their marriages to begin with and are in marriages which are broken even without the involvement of another person. They let go of their loyalties to their W as they emotionally divorce in their hearts and move on. Sometimes that takes a long time. There are no multiple puzzle pieces - it isn't a matter of filling different empty spots - it is a matter of taking one piece out and replacing it with another one.

 

It is not a matter of a short period of time either. An emotional divorce takes a whole lot longer than the one on paper. Once they get there, they leave for themselves, not the OW (even if they end up with her) and they do not go back once they make the final break - they may go back and forth as they are letting go, but once they do its a done deal. The cakeman is not emotionally divorced at all and never intends to be unless the W leaves him first, and there's a good chance he'll do everything in his power to keep her even if he has already given the appearance of moving on with the OW. Even if cakeman 'leaves' the W he'll do the old TOW dip and go right back to the W that he needs if the OW doesn't fit his W needs. Then he'll go right back to getting his OW back into his life. The uncompartmentalized MM simply moves on with his life and rebuilds a sense of fidelity with someone else and if the relationship fills his needs he won't have need or want to cheat again.

 

Its a fine line and almost impossible to tell the difference on the surface though. They both waffle, they both go back and forth, they both tell the W and the OW what they want to hear. They both will feel guilt (though cakeman will to a lesser extent). The cakeman's marriage might seem perfectly normal if the W doesn't know what is going on because he'll be acting the 'husband' as he always has. The regular MM's marriage will show the signs - the sex dropping, the emotional turmoil, etc as he is at war with his emotions for OW and W. The cakeman doesn't need to fight that war because W and OW are so separate for him. The telling thing is what happens at the end. Does he stay with the W and/or continue to have affairs or multiple OW? Probably a cakeman.

 

I don't envy anyone involved with a true cakeman. It can be frustrating - I've been cakey myself in my life and past relationships and it leaves a swath of destruction most of the time.

 

Will the cakeman ever grow up? Sometimes - people grow, develop and change - so there's no reasons their relationships won't either. It has to be a conscious effort type of change though, and it comes down to one thing - if a cakeman can change, does he want to?

[newbby]

informative as always lb. theres just one thing though. the way you describe it, the ow, and even the wife could be just anyone. more so the ow though. she only has to fill certain slots i suppose and those are fairly small and mostly just knowing her place is the only quality she need possess. i get this impression, only because the cakeman in your description trades ow easily.

[cal gal]

I always love anything you have to say LB.

 

I don't see many people in the world with as much insight and intuition as you express so concisely.

 

You are gifted.

[Sami_D]

 

Don't any of you OW out there feel stupid?

 

Well maybe some do. I don't feel stupid. But then, I don't feel my MM got married because of any of those reasons (very lacking in sentiment) listed. I don't feel that he had an affair because of any of those reasons. I don't feel used.

 

Not every MM is a cakeman.

[Sami_D]

Some MM do leave - they are the ones who are not happy in their marriages to begin with and are in marriages which are broken even without the involvement of another person. They let go of their loyalties to their W as they emotionally divorce in their hearts and move on. Sometimes that takes a long time. There are no multiple puzzle pieces - it isn't a matter of filling different empty spots - it is a matter of taking one piece out and replacing it with another one.

 

It is not a matter of a short period of time either. An emotional divorce takes a whole lot longer than the one on paper. Once they get there, they leave for themselves, not the OW (even if they end up with her) and they do not go back once they make the final break - they may go back and forth as they are letting go, but once they do its a done deal.

 

Your whole post said so much that is SO infrequently said here on LS. NOT EVERY MM is the same. Of course not every non-cakeman MM gets divorced, but they're not ALL heartless takers.

 

My MM this past week just came right out and (without having read anything much on these subjects - do men ever..?) said he felt himself 'emotionally separated' from his wife now. No, it wasn't like that at the beginning of our A. At the beginning (even a year ago) he was still saying that he would still, if W made an effort or reciprocated his moves, be interested in re-making his R with her. But now, he's sure.. it's over. He's not going back. Emotionally, it's over.

[cal gal]

informative as always lb. theres just one thing though. the way you describe it, the ow, and even the wife could be just anyone. more so the ow though. she only has to fill certain slots i suppose and those are fairly small and mostly just knowing her place is the only quality she need possess. i get this impression, only because the cakeman in your description trades ow easily.

 

 

Part of the reason he would give consideration to a certain OW would be her ability to "know her place." This would include not making waves in his already comfortable life, but giving him what he wants on the side.

[Sami_D]

Part of the reason he would give consideration to a certain OW would be her ability to "know her place." This would include not making waves in his already comfortable life, but giving him what he wants on the side.

 

Good point. Cakemen need a certain type of OW - i.e one who doesn't want anything MORE. Sometimes that OW is a Married OW, sometimes she's a mature OW, divorced, children of her own. Sometimes she's a career woman who has no notion of ever doing the W & kids things.

 

As long as cakeman gets an OW who matches his needs... everything is fine.

[cal gal]

Sami

 

Usually that "need" is awesome sex and a woman that tells him all kinds of great things to boost his ego.

[Sami_D]

Sami

 

Usually that "need" is awesome sex and a woman that tells him all kinds of great things to boost his ego.

 

In your response you talk about two kinds of cakemen needs... sex and 'adoration'. Are there cakemen who want real love..? or is that a different kind of MM?

[cal gal]

In your response you talk about two kinds of cakemen needs... sex and 'adoration'. Are there cakemen who want real love..? or is that a different kind of MM?

 

 

For some reason I think a cakeman wants anything and everything that will make HIM feel better... if it's real love then so be it .... if it's just for fun ... then so be it .... but he will play the game well enough to keep it all going as long as he wants to enjoy it all.

[veronese]

I had never heard the term 'cakeman' until I found out my H had three other women 'friends'. When I asked him all the predictable questions after the discovery all his answers described what I later found out to be the typical responses of a cakeman.

 

He was having EA's with them but there was an element of sexual chemistry/flirtation occurring between them too. The relationships were long term (one for more than 10years) yet I had never suspected a thing, believing as I did that my H was an honest, faithful man.

 

Just as the article mentioned, my H had compartmentalized his emotions and feelings. He admitted to feeling slightly guilty but not sufficiently so to end his friendships. He thought I would never find out and as the affairs weren't sexual that he wasn't harming our marriage.

 

They knew he was 'happily' (ha!) married and had no intention of leaving me. Two were single mothers, one was married with children. All three thought he was wonderful and all thought he was the perfect husband/father. They told him if he hadn't been married they would have liked to be his wife.

 

He really enjoyed these friendships. They looked up to him, flattered him, and made him feel important, desirable, strong, and special. They came to him for advice, support, encouragement and attention. He felt needed by them.

 

The secrecy and danger of these affairs added to the thrill. Being 'naughty' and getting away with it was fun. Although he was attracted to them individually in different ways, none of them appealed to him as prospective partners.

 

The strange thing was that I DID need him and always have, but unbeknown to me he felt inadequate in many ways because of my confidence/experience/background. I adored him, admired him, flattered him and indulged him, as had everyone else we know. He wasn't deprived of attention and was totally secure of my love for him.

 

Nevertheless he apparently needed to have his ego boosted further still, basking in the never-ending glory of his admirers. Quite bloody incredible considering he's always been loved by men, women and babies alike! The nicest, most handsome, kindest, perfect specimen of a man you ever could find! I was constantly told how 'lucky I was' to have such an amazing husband.

 

Anyway, true to form my cakeman dumped the OW as soon as I found out, which I guess must have been hard of them coming out of the blue as it did. Just in case either he or they were tempted to resume things after the dust had settled, I made it clear to them that I wouldn't be so forgiving on any future occasions. Knowing where they lived seemed to get the point over.

 

My H said that he felt so secure and safe with me he took it for granted I would never stray or cheat on him and would always be his wife. He didn't have to try with me.

 

The OW brightened up his boring work days. He met them for lunches, phoned them for chats, and cheered them up when they were low. Having checked his cell phone records I could see that the contact was only during his working day, was regular but not intense, and had never encroached on family time (evenings, weekends, and holidays).

 

Cakemen like my H, who casually and effortlessly embark on extra-marital affairs, are notorious re-offenders. Unlike the MM whose affairs represent the end of their marriages, cakemen rarely want to lose their wives and families, but risk losing them even so.

 

Will my H cheat again? Has he already cheated again? I don't know, but I know it's quite possible. I hope he doesn't but it's not up to me.

 

He knows though that I won't forgive him again. I've also made it clear that if he's prepared to not only hurt me again, but end his marriage over a relationship with an OW, he must also understand that the OW will get very hurt too.

 

If you are an OW and you think your MM may be a cakeman, I'd strongly advise you to end things with him, unless you are happy with the arrangement as it is of course.

 

Interestingly all three thought they were his only ‘special friend’. Being faithful to me made them think he was even more wonderful. They thought that if they had only met him before he was married, he would be married to them. He also told them that I didn’t know about them because ‘I wouldn’t understand’ and object to their friendships. Well he was damned right about that!

 

If your MM is lying about you to his wife, he aint a nice guy at all.

 

If your MM uses words like ‘soul mate’, don’t fall for it, its bollocks.

 

If your MM says ‘if only we’d met before I was married’, remind yourself that you didn’t.

 

If he says he doesn’t want to leave his wife, believe him.

 

If he says you’re the only woman he’s become attached to since being married, don’t believe him.

 

If he makes you feel beautiful again, special and attractive, there’ll be other men who can make you feel it too, preferably single men

 

If he seems too good to be true, it’s because he is!

 

If your conversations become too personal, flirtatious, suggestive, emotional, back off from him quickly.

 

If your MM is a cakeman you’re wasting your time with him. He’ll drain you emotionally and may break your heart.

 

If you have strong feelings about a MM and hope to have a future with him one day, the best thing to do is walk away until he is free to be with you. You will find out how genuine his feelings are for you then.

 

Be careful, cakemen are brilliant liars.

[cal gal]

Wow Veronese,

 

Your story sounds alot like mine.

 

Hubby wonderful looking and acting in every way. Just not faithful. He was shocked when I said I wouldn't put up with it any longer.

 

He thought I would always take him back. Guess what 20 years down the drain.....

 

Good luck to you sweety, my heart is there with you and stay strong!

[No Stress Lady]

If you have strong feelings about a MM and hope to have a future with him one day, the best thing to do is walk away until he is free to be with you. You will find out how genuine his feelings are for you then.

 

Thank you for posting Veronese - I hope that you are OK with everything in your marriage as things stand now - your story and perspective make thought provoking reading.

 

[whichwayisup]

Excellent post V! If only the OW knew what that insight, believed in it, before jumping into an A with a MM, less hearts would be hurting now...

 

Hope you're doing well and glad to see you posting and sharing! You're so helpful to so many people on LS!

[veronese]

I appreciate your kind thoughts CG, NSL and WWIU.

 

Our marriage now is better in many ways, worse in others. I enjoyed my rose colored existence and innocent, naive (but foolish) views on life. I knew that people lied and cheated but never in a million years imagined my H was one of them.

 

The fact that I still love him DESPITE his many flaws has strengthened our marriage. He knows I know he's far from perfect so my love for him today is based on truth, not fantasy.

 

He has so many good qualities and having loved him so much for so long I wanted to try to work things out. I wasn't optimistic given the extent of my pain, anger, shock and confusion, but two very tumultuous years on, we're still together, loving, laughing, arguing and stumbling along this bumpy road beside each other.

 

WWIU - thanks for such kind words hun. I have always respected and admired you and think you are very, very special. You give so much time and energy to people and your advice is always spot on. A compliment from you is much appreciated! You and LB are bloody brilliant.

 

Finally, for the OW reading this, I wanted to say that my husband really cared about his OW and was genuinely very fond of them. He never wanted to hurt them and was annoyingly protective about them when I found out.

 

He was insistent that he didn't want them to suffer as a result of their association with him and was saddened by the way things had ended between them. He even felt sorry for them having to hear me cry and wail down the phone at them.

 

I've learned so much and don't blame my H for all that has happened. We both made mistakes, we were both at fault, though clearly his mistakes were way way worse than mine!

 

Whether we can repair the damage and deal with the underlying issues that caused his EA's remains to be seen. It took two to screw things up and will need two to sort things out. I frequently get the urge to kick his sorry-assed self out, overcome with animosity towards him, only to find myself besotted with him before the day ends. It’s very unsettling!

 

The OW in my H's life obviously cared a great deal about him but I still don't believe their relationships with him were appropriate. I may sound cruel but I couldn't care less if they got hurt, they knew he was married from the start. They didn't care about my feelings or, more importantly, my children's welfare so I apologize for my un-Christian sentiment.

 

My uncharitable feelings however are only directed at them, not all OW. None of us knows what the future holds or how it will affect us. The way we feel today can change overnight, depending on our situations. I don't envisage ever becoming an OW but I then I didn't envisage staying with a man who cheated on me!

 

I can only stress to any OW with cakemen not to succumb to their charms. My H's OW have lost years they'll never get back and now know what a load of bollocks he told them. They didn't even know who he really was, what they saw was a performance. He adopted a role he enjoyed portraying, it wasn’t him. If they'd seen the grumpy old git in his true light, the farting, moaning bad tempered character he can be at home, they probably wouldn't have liked him so much.

 

Take care

 

Veron xx

[No Stress Lady]

The OW in my H's life obviously cared a great deal about him but I still don't believe their relationships with him were appropriate. I may sound cruel but I couldn't care less if they got hurt, they knew he was married from the start. They didn't care about my feelings or, more importantly, my children's welfare so I apologize for my un-Christian sentiment.

 

My uncharitable feelings however are only directed at them, not all OW. None of us knows what the future holds or how it will affect us. The way we feel today can change overnight, depending on our situations. I don't envisage ever becoming an OW but I then I didn't envisage staying with a man who cheated on me!

 

I can only stress to any OW with cakemen not to succumb to their charms. My H's OW have lost years they'll never get back and now know what a load of bollocks he told them. They didn't even know who he really was, what they saw was a performance. He adopted a role he enjoyed portraying, it wasn’t him. If they'd seen the grumpy old git in his true light, the farting, moaning bad tempered character he can be at home, they probably wouldn't have liked him so much.

 

 

Veronese I think your comments show that you are an extremely well balanced and perceptive woman and I hope your husband appreciates that now even if he hasn't in the past!!!

 

As you said - if the OW knows someone is married from the outset then she really has to expect that it's probably going to go nowhere or end in disappointment - anyone getting involved with a MM makes a DECISION to do so and, as I said in another thread, if you can't live with the (very well documented) consequences of your choices then you shouldn't be going down that road in the first place!!!!

 

Good luck to you - I am sure your positive and perceptive attitude will stand you in good stead for all the hurdles life presents us with!!!

[newbby]

firstly some good posts veronese, and nobody can blame you on your feelings about the ow.

 

As you said - if the OW knows someone is married from the outset then she really has to expect that it's probably going to go nowhere or end in disappointment - anyone getting involved with a MM makes a DECISION to do so and, as I said in another thread, if you can't live with the (very well documented) consequences of your choices then you shouldn't be going down that road in the first place!!!!

 

 

this is about as true as saying "the woman who gets involved with a physically abusive man/alcoholic should pretty much live with the consequences". okay, its partly true, it is also a very narrow viewpoint. when people choose unwisely, then obviously they have problems which need sorting out, but you are implying it is a very clear and conscious decision for all ow to set out and get involved with a mm. it is no more clear in reality than it is for the woman who becomes emotionally entangled and involved with an abusive alcoholic.

[AnchorManagement]

I'm a MM who'd like to single out two people for thanks:

 

Veronese - Thanks for an honest look inside. I appreciated your very balanced and thoughtful perspectives on your own H, which included both his up and downsides. You weren't here to bash but to inform, and I have tremendous respect for your ability to be decisive about what you need even while working toward a greater forgiveness. I hope he realizes how lucky he is.

 

LucrezaBorgia - I owe you thanks as well as gratitude. Your message was filled with that rarest of wisdom coalescing from experience, thoughtfulness and a genuine desire to make things better. Not only did you show a true understanding of what we men are feeling, without bitterness or accusation, but you illustrated a plan of action that could, in theory, offer my own situation a way forward.

 

Reading over your definitions I've seen some 'cakeman' tendencies in myself, but my actions have been those of a guy who's in love with one person - the OW. Given the choice and opportunity I'd be with no one but her, though she may not give me that chance regardless of my intentions. On the one hand, she's made it very clear she'd leave her 'boyfriend' if I'd leave my W, and I told her I would. But on the other hand there are issues that run deeper than my promises and commitment. It's now beyond my fidelity and into the realm of basic relationship goals - how we communicate and what we can expect; I may be dealing with a "Cakewoman".