Improve myself first and then discuss porn?

[Bob Dole]

I'm so happy someone here thinks this way too. I think that if you are in a relationship where you can't trust your partner then you need to get out. Doing something like installing a spy program will not give you any peace of mind. You will always wonder if there are other things that you have not caught and it will not help your well-being to know that you've resorted to something so sneaky.

 

You know, this thread has been in the back of mind ever since the first time I read it. And I'm really happy to see that a couple people beat me to what I'd been thinking.

 

KayKay, I cannot agree more with what Barfool and Jeffrey just wrote - and I can't disagree more strongly with the advice you've been given to start snooping.

 

Snooping will do nothing but build mistrust and resentment. At best, you'll confirm what you already know to be true .... he'll feel that he's been violated and feel his own resentments (even if he's not exactly entitled to those feelings) ... and you'll forever wonder if you actually found the whole truth. Even if you find nothing - you won't be satisfied.

 

There's nothing to gain - because you already *know* enough. You know he hid a pretty impressive porn stash from you; you know he spent a couple of grand on that crap. You already *know* there is a problem - and you should trust your instincts that it might be a big problem.

 

Disclaimer: if your only purpose is gathering material for a divorce, go ahead and gather all the facts you can. But if you want to save the relationship, this will do the opposite. I guarantee. Whether it turns out he's actually (mostly) innocent or he's actually a full-bore addict, your snooping will make things worse. Worst of all, it'll lower you to that level.

 

My advice: why not just be honest? Why not just approach him with what you already know - and then ask him the questions that you're wondering? Tell him you have suspicions - and that you'd like him to disprove those suspicions, if they're unfounded. If you really want to snoop, tell him so - tell him you're going to do it, for your own piece of mind.

 

Frankly, he ought to have no problem with that, right? Not that he isn't entitled to some privacy, but at this point - with those 50 DVDs in mind - he really ought to be happy to LET you monitor him, at least for a while.

 

And if he's absolutely against that idea -- isn't that your answer? Won't that tell you all you need to know? WITHOUT sneaking around?

 

Just my 2% of a dollar. You have so much going for you, and heading down the snooping road just leads to a lot of ugliness and a slippery slope you don't need to see. Some people would label all that snooping "co-dependent," and while I'm not much for the psychobabble, they have a point that it is pretty unhealthy.

 

Draw your boundaries. Let him know what you won't accept. Let him know the consequences if he can't abide by your boundaries, and if he won't work to establish your trust that he'd violated.

 

Don't fight sneakiness with sneakiness. Not if you want to keep the relationship.

 

And if he can't handle your honesty and your questions ... well, maybe its time to re-examine whether you should stay in the relationship.

 

Maybe start by printing this thread and asking him to read it?

 

My best to you, whatever the future holds. You really do have so much going for you. He's a lucky, lucky man. If he won't fight to keep you, to keep your relationship honest ... then he just might not be man enough for you. A real man doesn't choose pornography over a woman with your intelligence. Ever.

 

Hope he sees that. I really do. If not, he'll be the sorry one. I've been in his shoes. I've made that mistake. Regret sucks, especially when its crystal clear in hindsight. Tell him so.

 

God bless.

[cygny]

 

My advice: why not just be honest? Why not just approach him with what you already know - and then ask him the questions that you're wondering? Tell him you have suspicions - and that you'd like him to disprove those suspicions, if they're unfounded. If you really want to snoop, tell him so - tell him you're going to do it, for your own piece of mind.

 

Frankly, he ought to have no problem with that, right? Not that he isn't entitled to some privacy, but at this point - with those 50 DVDs in mind - he really ought to be happy to LET you monitor him, at least for a while.

 

And if he's absolutely against that idea -- isn't that your answer? Won't that tell you all you need to know? WITHOUT sneaking around?

 

 

he has already lied to her and snuck around behind her back with stuff. she can't destroy something that is already f***ed.

 

yes he will have a problem with that based on the very same argument you've given here. that he's "entitled to his privacy" on principle. he'll turn it around onto her. she'll still be left wondering whether anything is going on because she will know nothing.

 

I've already been naively down that road myself, thinking honesty and forthrightness would be honored. when the person is honest to begin with, you can make that assumption. but not when the person is lying /sneaking. it will make it twice as hard to find out the truth.

[Ladyjane14]

he has already lied to her and snuck around behind her back with stuff. she can't destroy something that is already f***ed.

 

yes he will have a problem with that based on the very same argument you've given here. that he's "entitled to his privacy" on principle. he'll turn it around onto her. she'll still be left wondering whether anything is going on because she will know nothing.

 

I've already been naively down that road myself, thinking honesty and forthrightness would be honored. when the person is honest to begin with, you can make that assumption. but not when the person is lying /sneaking. it will make it twice as hard to find out the truth.

 

Yeah....I've been down that road too. I caught him about a week before he met up with the cam-wh*ore he was all enamored with. I caught him because I snooped. If I hadn't....we'd be divorced right now.

 

Cygny's right. The husband will be pissy about his privacy. But his pissy mood doesn't hold water when compared to getting AIDS from a man who's "in the hobby".

 

Even if you set that aside...you can't address a problem until it's been properly identified. If my man wouldn't tell me the truth, I doubt hers will tell the truth either. I say that because I've got a pretty damn good man all things considered.

 

Pornography abuse and sexual addiction are embarrassing things to talk about. And if he's doing worse than what she already knows...he's not likely to say so.

[JamesM]

From a man who has been down the porn road...I still go with the "snooping" route.

 

KayKay has a couple of choices: confront him with the partial evidence she has or confront him with more evidence.

 

So, she confronts me. One thing they tell you on these escort review sites...deny,deny,deny. She knows that he has a stash of DVDs...this is all. She has never seen him watching them. She has not seen him purchasing them. She found them in the garage. She suspects he has paid for internet sex sites. She doesn't know. My answer if she said something to me about the DVDs..."Yes, I am sorry. I haven't watched those in a long time. I forgot I had them." But why so many? "There was a bunch on sale...I was curious. Most of them were not even interesting, so I put them away." Ot he may say, " I was going to let you look at them and see if any would turn you on." When dishonesty is part of life, lies can come pretty easily. Besides, he doesn't need the DVDs...he still has his websites.

 

Will snooping lead to divorce? Not any quicker than it is now. Life is short, just leave him? Marriage is about making tough choices, not running. IMHO, she should confront him with enough evidence so that he must make a choice. Keep living a double life (which is no longer secret) with his porn or choose his wife. If she doesn't "snoop" and let him know, he will try to cover. For her dignity and esteem, she must make him make the choice. But as cygny said, she cannot do it with a gut feeling and suspicion. He must face the reality that it is his choice not hers as to how his life will go.

 

With her confronting him, there is a possibilty that he will agree to counseling and treatment. Porn is not a chemical addiction, it is a matter of choosing to override lustful feelings which cloud all judgement. It is deciding to make new routines that prevent you from being confronted with porn. It is choosing new hobbies that are real hobbies.

 

But I guarantee that if KayKay approaches him without piles of evidence, he will not admit to his using porn. And when she does? Yes, he will be indignant that she has snooped in his life, but it is a coverup. He may even try to make her feel guilty for his using porn, but it is a coverup. And he even deny that he abuses it...that he doesn't watch the DVDs..that he no longer watches Internet porn, but it is all a coverup. Deep down he knows that he has been lost in the world of porn and is embarassed by it. He is ashamed that he cannot control his urges. This is one part of his life that gives him great pleasure and guilt at the same time. Sometimes all it takes to face reality is the public uncovering of his secret life.

 

I say snoop, gather evidence, and confront him. Tough love may lead to divorce, but it has a good possiblity of leading to recovery for him and the healing of the marriage. If KayKay walks away, she will feel like she may not have done enough. If she continues as she is, she will feel used and lose all respect for herself.

[Presario]

Don't fight sneakiness with sneakiness.

 

It's looks like "don't fight evil with evil." While such beautiful rules lift out spirits, they are unrealistic. Rules such as "turn the other cheak" don't work in the real world, but I really wish they did.

[Bob Dole]

hi again, Kay Kay, if you haven't already run away in frustration

 

Despite the above, I stand by my previous advice; in fact, after reading the last several posts, I'm much more sure of it.

 

The bottom line is that if you choose to spy - you are unquestionably violating your husband's trust. It is a wrong, committed against your partner. It is a violation of privacy.

 

The only question is - is that violation justified? Do the ends justify the means?

 

Maybe. But I'd suggest you consider that question carefully before you take that step.

 

You already have 50 (or is it 70?) DVDs; there is already plenty to discuss.

 

I'd suggest, very politely, that you pay attention to the *tone* of the messages demanding that you snoop. Can you hear it? Do you want that anger, that conflict?

 

Or do you want your marriage to be healthy?

 

Those will be the choices. If you intend to divorce the guy, snoop away - its a good idea. If you want to remain married, you actually may have to snoop eventually -- but I hope (though I know its a false hope) that we could all agree that taking that step should be your *last* choice rather than your first.

 

My last word on the subject and I'll leave you with some actual good advice:

 

First - ignore all of us here, and go find a reputable professional counselor with experience on this very issue. Ask HIM or HER what you should do.

 

Second - get both you and your husband in counseling together, and confront this issue directly again with professional help.

 

Third - above all else, try it my way first. Be honest and direct. Tell your husband your concerns, that you feel you may need to snoop. If you must monitor him, ask his permission.

 

The simple truth is that you can always listen to the bad advice above later. You can always stoop to spying, you can always decide down the road to go ahead and violate that trust, whether its justified or not.

 

But once you do it - there's no going back. It's simple logic. Spying may be necessary, but since it is such a violation and it might threaten your marraige and it might not even be justified - you might want to save that particular option for the very last thing you do.

 

No more from me, but you'll be in my prayers. I hope your husband finds himself a clue or two. Take care of you.

[JamesM]

Bob, are you married? I know, I know...Elizabeth, and I know you need Viagara.

 

Joking aside, I think the trust has been broken before KayKay snooped. Her husband has been using porn as a mistress. This is commonly called adultery. At this point, KayKay must build a complete case to shock her husband into realizing that he cannot continue as an adulterer. If she chooses to just talk to him without evidence, he may deny everything or he may say he will change, but he also will hide any evidence of his "mistress," so that he can continue without her knowledge.

 

You say she should follow her gut and have a heart to heart talk. Having seen with my own eyes how men have dealt with such talks, I cannot say that such a talk should be held without plenty of evidence. I already stated how I would answer the finding of the stash of DVDs in a previous post. He will want to keep his life private, so that he can continue. She must be able to "slap him in the face" with evidence of his using internet porn as his mistress. He has broken the trust, she must give him no wiggle room...he must be forced to choose: her or his porn mistress.

 

Keystroke software is more of use after she has talked with him. I think she has enough evidence from the credit card statement. But to believe that she can continue with a statement from him that he will quit...without any sort of tracking in place is naive and unrealistic. This takes any sort of control of her future and leaves her helpless. He has proven to be untrustworthy. He needs to know that she has the ability to keep him in line. She may say that she will check up on him, but I don't think she needs to say how. If he is truly desirable to keep his marriage together, he will welcome any help to keep him in line.

 

Bad advice? No, and I think it is cruel to KayKay to say that one view is the only good advice. You have some good points, but I think some points are naive.

 

Will her snooping lead to divorce? I think the question is: will a friendly conversation with the husband telling of the DVDs and hopes for change lead to a good marriage solution? Will KayKay feel comfortable in accepting an answer of "yes, I will change" without the abilty and security of knowing that she can check up on him to be sure that change has occurred?

 

KayKay, you have a real problem that can be fixed. Read all posts with an eye to your situation. You know your husband, you have a good idea what will work for him. I believe that he may have a tough time leaving his porn, but many guys like him have done so very successfully. With your love and support...and HIS choosing to do so, your marriage can survive to become a better one.