Prenups

[Woggle]

As much as I love my fiance and hope that this lasts there is always the possibility that it won't. I have a lot of assets and if god forbid something happened to our marriage I want to protect them. Would be the proper way to approach this and women if a guy asked you for a prenup would you be offended?

[cal gal]

As much as I love my fiance and hope that this lasts there is always the possibility that it won't. I have a lot of assets and if god forbid something happened to our marriage I want to protect them. Would be the proper way to approach this and women if a guy asked you for a prenup would you be offended?

 

Woogle - I wouldn't be offended. Just as I would protect my assets IF I ever remarried I would expect the same from his side.

 

This is especially important if one has any children from a prior marriage. The children should be first in line for consideration. Other considerations can be made for the spouse.

 

Don't be afraid to discuss it openly, if she is angry about it then you may want to contemplate your future.

[clandestinidad]

I havent quite figured out what I think about prenups. To me its a battle in my mind, regarding moral issues vs. rational issues, and I dont know which one outweighs the other. I wouldnt be offended if my SO brought it up, though. (but hopefully we would have discussed it BEFORE we were engaged)

 

I think the best way someone could bring it up to me would be to sit down in a space w/out distractions and say that they had been wondering about my opinion on something. Then, tell me that a lot of people are doing prenups and that he wants to know what I think about them. As I tell him my opinion, he should stay open and take in what I say. He should not tell me his opinion or interrupt while I talk. (Can you tell I hate it when someone asks for my opinion and then challenges it?!?!?)

 

Anyway, thats the only way I can think of to bring it up to her. If she asks your opinion about it, tell her. If her views are very different from yours, just stay patient. You dont have to come to a conclusion right away. Its always okay for people to just give their opinions, sit on them for a while, and come to a conclusion later.

[Touche]

I'd be offended since you don't have children. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong in being offended but I would be. Your fiancee' is an older woman. Does she not have assets of her own? Would she ask YOU to sign a prenup or do you think she's the type of woman who would share all her "worldly goods" with YOU?

[Art_Critic]

Seek an Attorneys advice..

 

You are thinking with your head.. a prenup is a great idea for someone with your assets.

 

 

Your prenup and what it covers will change depending on the state you live in and the divorce laws of your state.

She should also seek an attorney and take your proposed prenup to him so she can be advised properly if she should sign it.

 

The attorney can help you with a presentation to her as well so when you discuss it with her you don't knock her off her feet and piss her off..

 

Like I said depends on the state laws.. a lot of prenups are simple and won't require a lot of explaining.

 

Get Legal Advise before you go anywhere with this first.. and remember that a prenup is supposed to protect BOTH parties not just one

[Woggle]

I'd be offended since you don't have children. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong in being offended but I would be. Your fiancee' is an older woman. Does she not have assets of her own? Would she ask YOU to sign a prenup or do you think she's the type of woman who would share all her "worldly goods" with YOU?

 

If she wants me to sign a prenup I am more than willing. While we are married we will both share but things happen and I want to protect myself just in case. She has her own stuff as well.

[jerbear]

If she wants me to sign a prenup I am more than willing. While we are married we will both share but things happen and I want to protect myself just in case. She has her own stuff as well.

 

I'm with woogle on this one. I would sign a prenup so she keeps her stuff. before marriage.

 

I literally asked an older woman to marry me and offered an interesting prenup. I would sign over everything we owned during the marriage. I believe if something happened, I can still recover w/o her.

[cal gal]

Maybe what you both acquired as separate people could be separate assets, and assets acquire while together will be community property....

 

just a thought... to keep yourself protected for all your hard work.

[Craig]

A pre-nup is a good idea and nothing more than writing your own rules in the event of a dissolution of the marriage. If you don't have a pre-nup the state already has one for you. So no matter what you do pre-nup or no pre-nup there are rules to follow when a marriage dissolves.

[magda]

You can be sitting with your attorney and get him to bring it up and explain the personal benefits to her. You can also put in a cheating clause or something similar if she argues that you're not committed to the marriage. You might be surprised how well she takes it.

 

I think it could also protect her if you, say, lost everything and ran up a personal debt. Maybe unlikely, but perhaps worth bringing up to state your case.

[littlekitty]

Definately not offended.

 

My so is moving in at the end of March to my house which is owned in my name (my mortgage...!). Therefore I have agreed with him that we will have a 'living together' agreement drawn up which is effectively a legal agreement which states that he is not paying half the mortgage, but is 'renting' from me. And that he does not, in the case we part ways, have any rights to the property.

 

It isn't because I think he'd do that, it isn't anything other than protecting my assests. I've been stung before, left with debt etc.

 

At the time of marriage the house will no doubt be transferred to both our names. But until that point, it seems wise to protect oneself.

[a4a]

Write in a "cheat clause" The cheater loses everything gained while you are married

 

a4a

[JayKay]

I agree with a 'cheaters' clause.

 

Considering about 50% of marraiges fail, I don't understand why some people are enraged by prenups.

 

Marriage is not just about love. It's about sharing life responsibilities, working together as a team, disagreements and compromises, a constant-give-and-take.

Marriage is a lot like a business, not just fluffy hearts and rainbows and kittens.

 

In the event two people grow apart, a pre-nup can spare a lot of heart break, fighting and bitterness.

 

Lots of lawyers get rich on people fighting to the bitter end over property and assets.

[a4a]

Marriage is not just about love. It's about sharing life responsibilities, working together as a team, disagreements and compromises, a constant-give-and-take.

Marriage is a lot like a business, not just fluffy hearts and rainbows and kittens.

 

 

It is a business deal in so many senses. A contract for both parties to meet the expectations that should be outlined before the contract is entered into.

 

a4a

[Touche]

Well, I guess I'm just the old-fashioned one here. I just can't see starting out a marriage with the idea that it may fail. And I know it CAN fail. My first marriage did. We had no prenup but we just agreed to keep what we had when we entered the marriage and split what we acquired during the marriage. No prenup, no fights. It was civil.

 

Life is a gamble sometimes. And I ABSOLUTELY understand those who want to protect their assets and have a prenup but honestly, I'm not sure I'd ever agree to such a thing. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth on a few levels. And yes, as I said, I'd be offended if it were ever brought up to me. But that's just me. Hopefully, it's not her!

[clandestinidad]

Touche, yours might have been civil and easy, but the VAST majority arent. Woggle was apparently married to an awful woman, and I can only speculate how bad their divorce was. Its totally understandable that he wouldnt want the chance of going through the same crap.

 

But it is nice to know that there are some decent people out there who can split up and divide things in a more pleasant manner...good for the two of you for handling it so well!!

[Touche]

I know what you're saying Kat. And you're right. The vast majority don't end up being that civil. My point is that I wouldn't want to marry someone who doesn't have faith in not only the marriage not failing but who doesn't have faith in my character. If someone I was marrying needed a prenup I would take it that he thought that I would try to take him for everything he has and that's just not me. I would expect someone I was marrying to know that I wouldn't do that. EVEN if things didn't work out.

 

Yes, there ARE decent people who can split and divide things in a decent manner as you say. And if one doesn't think he/she is engaged to such a person then maybe one should re-think their choice in a life partner - not draw up a prenup.

 

Yes, I guess people change and can turn nasty. But I would hope that someone who wanted to marry me would believe that I wasn't one of those people. If he thought I was, then he shouldn't be marrying me.

 

But I do see your points. I'm just of a different mind on this.

[Art_Critic]

But I would hope that someone who wanted to marry me would believe that I wasn't one of those people. If he thought I was, then he shouldn't be marrying me.

 

But that is buying the fairy tale.. and life isn't like that.

 

with a over 50% divorce rate just by marrying statistics say that you most likely won't be married forever..

 

so by accepting that the marriage may end in divorce you are being smart..

 

My divorce wasn't civil either.. Ga is a 31 day divorce state.. we had no property together ( her business was hers and mine were mine )

It took me almost 7 months and 36k in attorneys fees to divorce her.

I also had to take it on the chin for over 6 figures in the settlement.I had to walk away from money that I had loaned her corporation because it was struggling

 

We were only married 5 years and have no kids/assets together.

 

A prenup would've let me move on with my life a year earlier and cheaper.

The end result of divorce isn't changed by a prenup.

[Touche]

I don't believe it's "buying the fairy tale." I believe it's having faith and good judgement in your partner. Look, I completely understand wanting to do it. I was just answering OP's question. It's not for me. I wouldn't marry anyone who didn't have complete faith at the outset. Maybe that's dumb of me but that's the way I feel about it. Call me naive, whatever. It's just distateful to me and I wouldn't do it and I would be insulted if a partner who wanted to spend the rest of his life with me would ask me to do it.

 

Why did your wife do that to you AC? Did you not have an inkling before you married her about her character? She obviously took advantage of you. I'll bet there were signs of that before the marriage. Hope you don't miss them next time around.

 

And just because a woman refuses a prenup doesn't make her a gold digger. I threw that in in case someone decides to bring that up. For me, that's not the case. I've explained the best I know how why I don't agree with it for ME.

[Art_Critic]

Why did your wife do that to you AC?

 

She did it because she didn't want a divorce and wanted me to hurt..

 

In divorce normally it is emotionally charged and you would be suprised what people would do or how they might react to things that can happen in divorce.

 

It isn't about the character of the person..The most upstanding moral people can become a pain for their partner if they are hurt enough or feel that they are getting the wrong end of the stick..

 

So even having faith in the relationship or other person doesn't mean that they would be civil in the event of a divorce..

[Touche]

I agree with everything you said AC but even so, I stand by my position.

 

So, you never did answer the question regarding signs. Looking back, do you think you saw signs of what was to come, especially in regards to how she handled the divorce?

 

And one more thing...yes, as you say, even having faith in the relationship or the other person doesn't mean that they would be civil in the event of a divorce BUT it doesn't mean that they WON'T be either. Life is sometimes a gamble as I said.

 

I'd rather give a person whom I'd be dedicating my life to and with the benefit of the doubt - just as I expect them to.

[basscatcher]

Here is a negative bit of info.

You need to get in all the corners of info from your attorney on preneps...

 

Charlie did a prenep with his XW when they married. He came from a well-to-do family and woudl inherit plenty of money, property, etc etc.

She signed it and it was settled.. They were married for 13 1/2 years and had 4 children.. She ran a daycare out of their home which he bought and purchased most everything in it.. He put alot of blood and sweat into that home. It was something he was proud of and accomplished.

His mother passed away of cancer and then his father passed away 2 1/2 years ago and he inherited money, property and shares in a foundation and charity they founded and operate.

 

In the divorce he lost the house and everything in it. He has the lien on it so when/if she sells it she has to pay him a portion of the sale. He lost half of his collection of original artwork he collect--valued approx. $30,000 and half of the money he inherited which is in a IRA. That money wasn't hers. It came from his parents to him not her.... The prenep didn't stop anything... She got practically everything. She even tried to get his share of the property he inheritied in Florida and Wisconsin as well as the homestead here in Minnesota. She couldn't get any of that including the boats, 4-wheelers etc because the other share of those items were his brothers... The judge wouldn't allow her to have a part of those things but anything that was solely his she got.....

 

Preneps don't always work...... She was even declared mentally and emotionally unhealthy by 4 different Psychologists she chose, he chose and the court appointed.. Now she is filing bankruptsy and tried to hide the IRA from the courts. (She has a spending addiction and racks up lots of credit cards and doesnt pay them off.)

 

Charlie had one of the best divorce attorneys in the state of Minnesota and he still got screwed and the prenep didn't hold water in that divorce. No judge wanted tp take their divorce case becuase they knew it would get messy with all the financial shyt and also his last name is well known and highly respected. The case could have been a total nightmare. It took a year for the divorce to be finalized and he lost almost everything to her because the female judge felt sorry for her..

 

He thought he crossed all his T's and dotted all his I's.. Be careful and thorough. Remember there is no guarentee....

 

I'm sorry to put a damper and a negative on your happiness but I feel after knowing Charlies situation that people weight too much on the security of a prenep....

 

A litte more info. One week after Charlie moved out of his house she had another man move in. Also she was 6 months pg with that mans child at the end of the divorce. She had been having an affair on him for awhile.. The man was their car dealer... Charlie bought her a minivan and the dealer was her lover...

[Art_Critic]

So, you never did answer the question regarding signs. Looking back, do you think you saw signs of what was to come, especially in regards to how she handled the divorce?

 

 

Life is sometimes a gamble as I said.

 

No there were no signs of that nature .. she owned a company that had sales of over 3 mil a year ..

 

There were signs that the marriage wasn't meant to be though.. but love is blind.

 

Remember that your gambling with the rest of your life after a divorce.. if your young.. that is a lot of years that you have to live without what you lost in the divorce..

 

Besides.. prenups basically become invalid if the marriage turns into a long term marriage or you throw kids into the mix..

or run the marriage without consideration of the prenup.

 

A prenup does not cheat someone out of what is rightfully theirs..

The keyword is rightfully..

[Art_Critic]

Preneps don't always work.

 

He also had a long term marriage.. a prenup doesn't stop somone from getting what is rightfully theirs.

[blind_otter]

 

Preneps don't always work...... She was even declared mentally and emotionally unhealthy by 4 different Psychologists she chose, he chose and the court appointed..

 

Agree with Art, things are different once there are children involved, and the longer the marriage lasts...

 

Also are you sure about "Being declared mentally and emotionally unhealthy"? I worked with legal competency issues with patients at a forensic mental hospital, and I thought that legally, you are either competant or incompetant. God knows a lot of the patients I worked with were UNHEALTHY to the extreme, but after they were stablizied on meds they were competant to stand trial.

 

Personally, I had no prenup. I entered into my marriage with a sizeable trustfund from my parents and after all was said and done I had to declare bankruptcy. I won't go into the details but it was ugly. I had no idea he did what he did behind my back until it was too late. Of course he was going to prison for growin pot. A lot of people do desperate things when facing federal prison time....