Is it finally over?

[CryingCanuck]

Hi all, I've been reading this site for a few weeks now and thought that maybe there might be some help I could get with my own situation.

I'm presently seperated from my wife of 23 years. She moved out this past December after going back and forth on a decision, since a big fight we had in October. Since she moved out, we see each other as much as possible and things were apparently on the mend, but I tried too hard to get her back and instead it seems, pushed her away to the point that she is now saying that she isn't planning on ever coming back and that we should consider selling the house and starting the paperwork for a legal seperation. We both vow not to divorce as neither of us is interested in ever getting married again. I was her second marrige, she my first.

16 years ago my wife suffered a major depressive episode and was hospitlized on and off for a period of two years, the last time in the hospital she called me and told me that she's leaving me since she doesn't love me and it's our marriage that is causing her depresion, she has been under a DR's care since her teens ( didn't know this before we got married). She eventually started having an affair with someone she met in the psych ward at the hospital and for a 6 month period my life was a living hell with two young kids at home. Eventualy we found a way to get into couselling and a way to get past what happened.

Over the past 18 months, one of our kids was creating a real problem at home and causing a significant amount of stress and I was constantly fighting with my wife regarding it. We have totally different parenting skills, her's layed back mine pro-active but maybe overbearing. So this past October, we went to a party that I didn't want to go to but I knew she really did (I have a significant hearing problem and crowds can be very stressfull). So before we went to this party, I took a couple of my wifes tranqualizers to calm me down and while there had 4 or 5 drinks, not realizing that the two mixed would have the effect on me that they did. Apparently I blew up at her after asking her a couple of time to go home, then while driving home she yelled at me to stop the car and got out. I apparently got out of the car and dragged her back to it. I don't know any of this, as I have a total memory loss from the drugs and apparent last drink that evening. I have never asaulted my wife in our 23 years and I know I never would again. The problem from how I understand it now, is that she made a vow after her first marriage that she would never allow a man to ever touch her again and I crossed that line and she just recently told me that that's the only reason she's not home now. Well last week, we had a minor fight on the phone but apparently something snapped and she called me back and tells me that she's tired of trying to fix this and wants it to end permanently. I've been so upset and gulty about what I did lst October that's that all I can think of. We got through our seperation and her affair 13 years ago, it took me a while to forgive yet I don't seem to be getting the same treatment. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Ladyjane14]

It's possible that she was observing you during the trial separation to see what steps you would take toward permanent change. Have you taken any?

 

If not, NOW might be a good time. It seems to me that you could use some stress management techniques. You might consider getting into some IC (Individual Counseling) to work on that. Either way this thing goes....you'll benefit by managing your stress.

 

I'm no professional, but it seems rather suggestive of generalized anxiety. (????) Because, if you weren't feeling stressed out by the prospect of the party...you probably wouldn't have taken the tranquilizers. And if the differences in parenting styles between you and your wife weren't triggering your stress...you'd have been negotiating, rather than arguing.

 

Anyway, you might stave off a final decision if you can convince your wife that you're working on defining problems and finding solutions.

[CryingCanuck]

Thanks for your input.

Stress? Heck yeah a ton of it, living with a depressive ( she has gotten a lot better since her last episode years ago) is extremely stressful and honestly at times the stress in our house was undearable and I was generally the main cause of it. I never really looked into that, maybe it's time I do. I don;t seem to handle stressful situations well unless I'm the one in control

(law enforcement) and mayb eit;s time I get some help to learn to cope with situations that I really have no control over. Just today she called to let me oknw she's going to be out of town another day due to the bad weather here and she could tell that I was very upset about what's happening and all and I know che does care for me a lot but simply can;t live with me the way I get sometimes so I do have to do something about it.

 

Again thanks for your input

[CryingCanuck]

There obviously are a few things I have left out regarding our present situation and seperation, she has been away for 6 weeks officially but as I indicated previously, has been home almost everyday until recently. She has anger issues no doubt, and it seems that instead of coming out and sayig what's bothering her she withdraws, at our last session with our MC he told her flat out that she's mean and that she doesn't fight fair and that she can be vindictive. My W took this all in and I thought that maybe she would start to see the other side of the story and maybe be a little more forgiving to me but the opposite has happened. As I said earlier, she now wants to end the marriage. I know that many here have seen people change their minds after a cooling off period, does it really work? We both say that we love each other and we care deeply for each other but the anger issues are what's getting in the way. And my constant nagging about getting back together.

I'm to blame for a lot as I've indicated previously and I want to do what I can to change some of those bad habits I have but it's not going to happen overnight but neither will we sell the house very fast either and to me that's when in my mind it's truly over... At least that's what I say now.

Since this announcement of no longer wanting to try to fix things , I've been a wreck, crying and feeling totally miserable and blaming myself for not giving her the space she apparently needs and craves. I'm really trying but I alway sseem to mess it up by asking questions and when I don;t get the answer I want, by being snarky, immature for a 45+ year old I would say. Anyway, just wanted to know if people in th esame situation have at least tried to reconcile months after they sepeate and if it's successful.

Thannks again for any input.

[Ladyjane14]

I haven't been in your position in regards to recovering from separation. I've seen a few people who have though....EnigmaXOXO springs to mind. (Brilliant poster here at LS, btw. ) It's certainly possible to reconcile and improve the marriage. It's just not EASY.

 

I've been married for as long as you have, and have never considered 'separation'. That said....the year before last I outright demanded a DIVORCE. We managed to turn it around though. But I think it was mostly due to BOTH of us adopting a change in the way we interact.

 

There are alot of reasons why people seek separation. I'm not going to blow any sunshine up your skirt here... Sometimes, asking for a "separation" is just a matter of 'sneaking up' on divorce, a way to break it to your partner gently.

 

Other times, asking for a separation is a last-ditch effort to get your spouse to understand that you mean BUSINESS. It's more of an ultimatum. "Either change your ways....or I'm outta here"

 

With any luck, your wife has been trying 'to get your attention'. Failing in that after six weeks...she may be feeling hopeless at this point to elicit real and lasting CHANGE. Hence she's asked for divorce instead.

 

Now, don't misunderstand....she might really mean what she says. Sometimes when you leave a contentious relationship, there's such a great relief in not dealing with the daily conflict that you never want to go back. I just want you to know that sometimes NOTHING you do will repair the damage.

 

But if you're still game to try, then your best course of action is going to be in changing the behaviors that your wife had a problem with. And you'll need to prove that you're as good as your word in ACTIONS that she can see. That's why I recommended to you that you see a counselor for stress management.

 

You might also consider seeing a medical doctor in order to discuss depression. You've lived with a mate who suffers with it....but it's hard to see the symptoms in yourself. Marital crisis can put a person into a heck of a tailspin. The toll on your body from the stress can be considerable. Also...at the age of 45, you can't rule out the effects of male midlife crisis. I honestly believe that MLC is more than a psychological condition. There seems to be physiological factors at work affecting the neurotransmitters of the body.

 

You'll need to focus your attention on YOUR choices....not hers. The reality of the situation is that you have no control over the actions of others. You can only control YOU. That's kind of liberating though, in it's own way. When you recognize that you don't have control over your wife's choices....you're free to relinquish responsibility for the entire burden of problem-solving.

 

You're also free to let go of some of the anxiety that you're feeling. You'll do your BEST to be sure, but in the end....your best is ALL that you can do.

 

So, all that's left to worry about is holding up your end. Let her worry about her own.

 

You might want to spend some time thinking about what your wife's ENs (emotional needs). Have you identified them? Were you meeting them? If not, what actions can you take to prove that you're ready to meet her needs CONSISTANTLY? (A couple of good books on the subject are: His Needs / Her Needs.. by Harley, and The Five Love Languages by Chapman. )

 

There is a certain amount of baggage that is going to weigh you down. I'm talking about Resentment. You can't live with somebody for more than 2 decades and not build any up. Right now though, resentment will be tripping you up. The past is gone. Nothing you can do about it now. TODAY is what matters. Only those experiences which help you to affect your choices NOW have value. Anything that can be described as 'excess emotional baggage' is a hindrance. Drop it without a backward glance.

 

I promise you that when you let go of every previous transgression....it's like the weight of the world being lifted from your shoulders. You see everything through NEW EYES. Other people's choices become their responsibility. You have no distorted view through which to personalize their behavior.

 

 

In attracting your mate back to you, it's important to be ATTRACTIVE. Try to make your interactions with your wife positive ones. You're going to want to be upfront and honest about your agenda. She knows you want to reconcile.....don't deny it.

 

But 'Rome wasn't built in a day', and you have alot of work to do in order to repair the relationship. So, relax and be patient. Once a separation has occurred.... I don't think you can rush the process. In a way, physical separation seems to break the emotional trust in a marriage. One partner has literally abandoned the other. It stands to reason that trust would have to be rebuilt. A 'back to basics' approach might be best, working on enhancing attraction and renewing trust.

 

What did she like about you when she met you? What made you stand out from the crowd? You know, most women who are unhappy in their marriage really don't want a different man. Most of them just want the guy they married back. Problem is....they don't know where he went.

 

Maybe you need to get back in touch with that guy.

[Ladyjane14]

I haven't read this book yet...but I read a review and it looks interesting. Just thought I'd mention it, because it would seem to address quite a few of your issues.

 

The Irritable Male Syndrome : Managing the Four Key Causes of Depression and Aggression by Jed Diamond

from Publishers Weekly....

 

Psychotherapist Diamond (Male Menopause) focuses on how hormonal changes and chronic stress can trigger "irritable male syndrome: a state of hypersensitivity, anxiety, frustration, and anger."

[CryingCanuck]

LadyJane,,,

Thanks for your input, a truly do appreaciate it very much. I spoke to my W this afternoon, I'm still very upset but I did my best to hold those feelings together. Work right now sucks and is impossible but I have a very understand boss who has gone through what I'm going through and yesterday I finally went to my DR. One look at me and he said that I'm definitely suffering from depression and insisted I get on meds ASP. I took has advice and filled the RX. Now speaking to my W today, I told her about some things I learned that could possibly be a part of my problem and I also told her that I need to sell the house it's just too big for my son and myself and impossible to maintain. I also told her that I'm not going to bother her about getting back together, but that after she has calmed down from our most recent spat ( last Tuesday) and after a good cooling off period and if she starts to look at things differently that I'll be here (I only asked her to not close the door on us, which she said she hasn;t in the least), I know she loves me very much and obviously I love her too but I do have to get myself in order. Anxiety, stress, unhappiness and all the other crap that went on over the past 18 months in our house has had a real bad effect on us culminating from what I mentioned in my first post. Stress Mng't and a good PC, I know will help a long way in maybe getting this back on tract or at least getting me over the hump if at the end of all this we're still apart.

Registered also for a coping with seperation/divorce course.

Thanks for your input.

[CryingCanuck]

Here's a twist to my story. I called my W this afternoon to let her know I'm going start to paint the house to get it ready for sale. Asked her if it's OK if I simply go with very neutral colours and she balked at that as if she wants to pick them. So I told her I'm out for the evening and if she wants, she can come over while I'm away and to pick the colour. I get home later in the evening and she has picked various colours for each room and various hallways. I get home see these paint chips and call her. Asked her why so many, and also that these were the colours that I remember she wanted to have the house painted just before our troubles began in October. She hemmed and hawed and said that yes they are, so I bluntly asked her why? Was she now thinking that in the event of her coming home the house is painted the way she wants it? Initially she said no, but then did her dance routine and asked me flat out that since I refused to allow her to help get the house ready for sale she thought that maybe I would consider allowing her to give her notice at the apartment she took and to move back. I was floored, I asked why in hell she would want to do that since she was so sure just a week ago that our marriage was over and she wasn't even sure she wanted to return to MC>

She tells me she wants to move back to help me keep the house clean

(two males in this big house makes it tough) but that we would still be somewhat seperated. Inintially I thought YEs Yes Yes, then all kinds of warning signs went up. I suggested that if that's the reason for moving back it would spell disaster and we would never get things fixed. I suggested she stay where she is until such a time as we've had a chance to really get our feeling in order since I was the one who fought tooth and nail over her NOT moving out and fixing things in the first place before she eventually left. Things since she moved out got a lot worse but now I think that if she moved back they would only get even more difficult. I want her home, I miss her so much but not under those conditions. I had to say no it's not right and suggested to her that she take time and consider everything about our marriage and how she has treated it and in many ways how she treated me.

WAS I RIGHT?

I also told her that I would never NOT allow her to come home if she insisted but asked her to rethink the plan and her reasons, she might be scared about being on her own, but until she is totally honest with herself and realize that I'm not responsible for her unhappiness or not totally at least, that our marriage can't be fixed. And I told her flat out that if she can't forgive me for the stupid thing I did last October that it would never work.

Then she asked me to come over tomorrow night and spend the evening to talk about it. Go figure...

If she wants to come home because she misses us she has to be upfront and honest about it. Am I making a mistake here?

[Devildog]

...and also that these were the colours that I remember she wanted to have the house painted just before our troubles began in October. She hemmed and hawed and said that yes they are, so I bluntly asked her why?

 

I wouldn't suggest the asking her why part. It's still pushing her, pushing her for some kind of answer. I know, day late and a dollar short on that advice.

 

I asked why in hell she would want to do that since she was so sure just a week ago that our marriage was over and she wasn't even sure she wanted to return to MC>

 

This was probably seen as beligerent and snippy. Not the tact you should be going for.

 

I suggested that if that's the reason for moving back it would spell disaster and we would never get things fixed. I suggested she stay where she is until such a time as we've had a chance to really get our feeling in order

 

good, good...

 

since I was the one who fought tooth and nail over her NOT moving out and fixing things in the first place before she eventually left.

 

Ohhhhh, and he blows the landing! You come across as holier than thou there.

 

I had to say no it's not right and suggested to her that she take time and consider everything about our marriage and how she has treated it and in many ways how she treated me.

WAS I RIGHT?

 

Realistically, yeah, you might have been right, but your delivery was again wrong. You are basically saying you place the majority of the blame on her for what is happening.

 

Then she asked me to come over tomorrow night and spend the evening to talk about it. Go figure...

If she wants to come home because she misses us she has to be upfront and honest about it. Am I making a mistake here?

 

So you want her to come home, but only after she has swallowed her pride and comes begging you for another chance? Does your marriage have enough value for you to be happy with a chance to save it, or do you need her to say she was wrong? Is it not enough for you to know, or must you hear it from her lips?

 

If you go over there to talk tonight, leave the sarcasm at home. Listen to her, don't get angry, don't get demanding, don't get condescending. Right now your emotions are your own worst enemy. Begging and pleading seems pathetic and weak. So does crying. If you can, leave before she is ready for you to go. Don't be rude, but don't stick around if she asks you to stay. Get her to miss you, to wish she had you around.

[Ladyjane14]

I think you're doing a fine job overall, Canuck. But I'm in agreement with Devildog on the finer points of the discussion.

 

You won't get anywhere by pointing fingers right now. It's sooooooo important that you step back and allow her to take responsibility for her own choices. If she wants to 'own' any of her mistakes....great. If she's not ready to do that, then you absolutely cannot push her to do so. She'll get there or not in her own sweet time.

 

Your mistakes are another story. You take COMPLETE ownership of anything negative that you brought to the table. You take responsibility for whatever you've done that has caused disharmony. You combine both word and action to prove that you can and will address any deficits that you've brought to the relationship.

 

 

 

I think it's perfectly okay to tell your wife that you're not looking for a "roommate". It's honest. You want your Wife back. You want a REAL marriage without emotional distancing. I might be wrong...but I think it's fair. And I like that you didn't do it in a negative way. Rather than shooting her down completely, you stated your preferences and left room for negotiation.

 

When you talk to your wife tonight, don't point the finger. Tell her how much you love her. Tell her specifically why she's the one you love. Describe the kind of relationship you want to have with her. Paint her a picture of that relationship with your words. Visualize it with her.

 

Tell her the positive steps you're taking in order to address her concerns in your ability to be the kind of husband she needs. Tell her that you're seeking treatment your depression. Tell her that you've enrolled in stress management. Let her see that you're excited about making this progress. Let her see what you're actively doing in order to accomplish your goals.

 

If you can make this a positive interaction, you'll go a long way toward proving that you are a reasonable man who is capable of negotiation and lasting change.

 

All that said, I would still maintain my boundary in not accepting a roommate instead of my spouse. Although, I'm not sure I'd enforce it if she were truly insistent...which would make it more of a 'preference' than a true boundary, I suppose.

 

This is just my opinion, but I don't generally like Separation as a marriage-building tool. Usually, I would agree that an 'in-house' separation is preferable to living apart. But I have to wonder if having already established the separation outside the home, it might be best to allow it to serve it's purpose.

 

I'm going to PM EnigmaXOXO and ask her to have a look at your thread. She's the only one I can think of at the moment who has successfully managed to reconcile a separation. I'm sure there are alot more folks who have done it, but my brain is mush and I can't think of their NAMES today.

[Devildog]

When you talk to your wife tonight, don't point the finger. Tell her how much you love her. Tell her specifically why she's the one you love. Describe the kind of relationship you want to have with her. Paint her a picture of that relationship with your words. Visualize it with her.

 

Tell her the positive steps you're taking in order to address her concerns in your ability to be the kind of husband she needs. Tell her that you're seeking treatment your depression. Tell her that you've enrolled in stress management. Let her see that you're excited about making this progress. Let her see what you're actively doing in order to accomplish your goals.

 

I never thought I would say this, but I don't know if I agree with you on this part LadyJane. I think it comes off as still a bit needy and clingy. By all means tell her you love her, let her know you haven't given up. But I think waxing poetic might be laying it on a little thick yet now.

 

I also don't know if volunteering any information about depression treatment or stress management is the right track either. Comes off as you doing it just because of what is going on, like you are trying to prove something to her.

 

My advice, and LJ feel free to disagree with me here, is to let her pull the information out of you very easily. For example, if you take your prescription for the anti-depressants in the evening, ask her for a glass of water and take them while you are there. She will most likely ask what the pills are, then tell her. But only if she asks! If you flat out tell her you are taking anti-depressants it will still seem like you are blaming her for your problems. By doing it the way I suggested it seems more like you are doing it for yourself, trying to improve.

 

For the stress management thing, if she asks you to get together to do something, anything, tell her you can't because you have to go to a stress management class then, even if it isn't scheduled for that time or day.

 

You want her to get the notion that you are doing these things to be a better person, not because she is making you miserable with all this.

[Ladyjane14]

You may be onto something D. It's a tough call.

 

On the one hand...Canuck's wife was certain that she wanted a divorce just last week. He told her two things basically. One, that he wasn't going to pester her anymore about getting back together and that he wanted to sell the family home....and Two that he was taking steps to rectify some of his issues. A 'withdrawal' and an 'advance' all in the same conversation.

 

Now speaking to my W today, I told her about some things I learned that could possibly be a part of my problem and I also told her that I need to sell the house it's just too big for my son and myself and impossible to maintain. I also told her that I'm not going to bother her about getting back together, but that after she has calmed down from our most recent spat ( last Tuesday) and after a good cooling off period and if she starts to look at things differently that I'll be here (I only asked her to not close the door on us, which she said she hasn;t in the least)

 

I guess that leaves us wondering what she's responding to.

 

If she's responding to the loss of the family home and the reality that the marriage might REALLY end. Then yes...I'd say you're right D. Let her pursue him a bit.

 

If she's responding to the actions that Canuck is making to rectify his portion of the marital problems....then maybe reassurance and soothing is in order.

 

Tough call.

[CryingCanuck]

Thanks guys, I have to be honest, I want more than anything to get this thing fixed, more than you guys would ever know, but after what happened two weeks ago I'm scared to death of having her around right now or being near her. As far as my sort of letting out that I'm depressed, and finally taking something for it, HECK lol who wouldn't be after living with a depressive for 23 years? She knows full well I'm depressed..

Actually the depression is more a situational think caused by the stress in our lives over the past 18 months and accentuated by our separation. As far as her knowing about the coucelling and pills, she's already aware of that and also aware that I'm doing this not for her/us but for ME I need to get some of my frustration/anger/resentment for what's gone on over the years out of me and I learn how to not be condecending/snarky and at times outright rude and immature when things don't go my way.

Now as far as her moving back is concerned, I honestly think it would be a big mistake and as I indicated previously, I would not kick her out if she decides to move home BUT I still think it's not the right thing to do at this time, maybe after a few counselling sessions and we can work out some kind of arrangement maybe then.

Please remember I'm 50 and there are some things that I will be able to totally change, I'm not affraid of that, but there will be some that I may be able to only partially change and that's the part that I don;t know about.

I'm willing to do about anything to make this better and get our lives back together but I can't promise that I'll be the nicest, kindest and sweetest person in the world all the time, it's not me but I am as our MC told her before I'm a very tender loving husband who sometimes screws up.

I've told you most of what is wrong with me, I've not really gotten into her story simply because the things she has to change she has to do on her own also. But one thing a person who has known us for 23 years told me recently was that my W has always been unhappy and always blamed someone else or something else but never looked at herself. That's enough of her.

Again thanks guys looking forward to your replies.

[Ladyjane14]

It's only natural to feel nervous when there are forces at work beyond our control. That's why it's such a relief to realize that you only have to take responibility for what YOU bring to the table.

 

Deep breaths, kiddo. Life unfolds and we just do the best we can.

 

I've got an article for you to read. You'll need to Google for it though. It's called "Why Women Leave Men". It's a bit simplistic for your purposes, but still....I think you'll get a little bit of an idea what women want in terms of 'emotional intimacy'.

[CryingCanuck]

We talked and the first thing out of my W's mouth was she's sorry she suggested that she move back it wasn't fair onher part to put me through that. So that ended that discussion real fast. She wants us to see each other but that she's pretty sure that we can't fix this and she's not sure about MC either at least to repair our marriage but might be good to help us seperate with good feelings. (Very doubtful about that one), I didn't stay long, neither did I get angry, I simply said I understood and I feel we still have a lot left since we both say that we truly love each other but that her repressed anger is just now coming to the surface, but I said that if and when she's ready to go back into couselling I'll be there. WE talked a bit about our problems but it was starting to get a little touchy so I asked if it was alright if we brought this up another time and suggested I better go for the time being. We ended up agreeing to see each other but that we're going to not try to fix anything for the time being. So that's that I guess.

 

Time to work on what I Know I did wrong over the years and eork at fixing myself.

 

Thanks for your input guys. Talking to friends can be so tough, agendas and all so this outlet really can help , regardless of how this works out.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, immediate resolution was unlikely anyhow.

 

All things considered, I'd say you did a pretty good job. You kept a pretty cool head and didn't allow the conversation to dissolve into bickering. You didn't allow yourself to be manipulated into agreeing with anything that would be definatively contrary to your goals. Not bad overall.

 

she's not sure about MC either at least to repair our marriage but might be good to help us seperate with good feelings.

 

I think it would behoove you to accept marriage counseling on any level that you can get her to agree with right now. If she's willing to go....book that appointment. There's no reason why you can't work on basic communications techniques and things like that initially. You can treat it like you were starting college without selecting a major. Just see where it takes you.

 

There's no guarantee she'll change her mind regarding the marriage, but there's none that she won't either. Improving your communications can't help but to give you better odds in saving the marriage.

 

Plus that, you need some support. You'll feel better when you have someone who can give you detailed guidance. So, if the wife balks....you might consider starting MC on your own.

[CryingCanuck]

I know that tomorrow will be tough on us both, and under the circumstances it would be understandable if I didn't do anything but I WANT TO ! ! !

I want to send flowers to her apartment, with a card, and to just let her know that I'm thinking about her. It might be lame and she might simply think I'm trying to win her back with this lame attempt, but that's not it, I want to let her know simply that she's on my mind and that I do love her and I'm sorry for what's happened. Why I'm writing this here I don't know, maybe to get support or have someone give me a shake.

 

Anyway just writing my thoughts and feeling today nothing more.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I'm going to PM EnigmaXOXO and ask her to have a look at your thread. She's the only one I can think of at the moment who has successfully managed to reconcile a separation.

 

So sorry. That wasn't me.

 

I was legally separated for a period of time, but I ultimately followed through with my divorce. And I emphasize "legally" because I was advised by my attorney that pretend "trial" (or verbal) separation agreements are not recognized by the courts as legal and binding, and leaves too much at risk. I'm too pragmatic in nature to ever gamble my emotional and financial security away on someone else's mood swings and/or indecisiveness. They can betray my trust and steal my heart, but that's about as much as I've ever been willing to give away.

 

While I absolutely agree that it would not be a good idea to cohabitate with your wife so long as she declares herself temporarily emancipated from you and your marriage, I'm worried that you may actually have no "choice" in the matter should she continue choosing to have things her way. And that's the thing that worries me the most about your current predicament.

 

Without a legal and signed agreement between the two of you, you are not actually "separated" in the eyes of the law. You can not legally prevent her from reentering your home as long as her name is on the deed (even inviting her affair partner over if she darn well pleases). You can not keep her from destroying your property or removing any of your belongings from the premises. You can not stop her from depleting assets from any of your joint bank accounts, running up your shared dept, or removing your children from their home.

 

I realize it's probably hard to imagine (at this time) that your wife is the kind of person who would resort to these tactics. But even the most rational of folks have been known to become desperate and behave irrationally in these emotionally driven circumstances. Particularly when they switch into 'survivor' mode or become vindictive. And given your description of your wife's past behavior and indiscretions, it doesn't sound as if you can depend on her to remain honest and fair when it comes to negotiating in her own behalf.

 

Sure, she has every right to make her own "choices". But she can either "choose" to finish what she started and move on with her life (allowing you to move on with yours)… OR take some serious steps towards reconciling your relationship. (Which includes being able to humbly accept some constructive criticism from your marriage councilor.) And sadly, if she isn't willing to follow the program and take the necessary steps towards mending your relationship, there is no hope for any lasting solution to your surmounting marital problems.

 

I don't know how long your wife has been living away from home, but if I were in your situation I would consider setting some kind of timeline (for myself) to begin taking the necessary steps towards protecting myself and my children in the event my spouse decided to keep me in a 'holding pattern' for so long as it remained convenient for them. I can also see no benefit in allowing her to downgrade your status from husband to roommate until she makes up her mind. To me… that's going backwards, not forward.

 

 

You'll need to focus your attention on YOUR choices....not hers. The reality of the situation is that you have no control over the actions of others. You can only control YOU. That's kind of liberating though, in it's own way. When you recognize that you don't have control over your wife's choices....you're free to relinquish responsibility for the entire burden of problem-solving.

 

ABSOLUTELY!

 

Learning to "Let Go" was one of the most difficult life lessons I ever had to learn. And it's something I still struggle to remind myself of every single day. And as much as I resisted, in the end, it was the ONLY thing that ever worked.

 

"Let Go."

 

Control is simply an illusion. None of us have it except within the confines of our own self-discipline. And more often than not, the frustration we feel towards the world and others is usually the consequence of our lack thereof.

 

If it were me, rather than fight my wife's "choice" to be separated from me, my approach would be to help make that transition easier for her… by taking the initiative to speak with an attorney and have our separation agreement drafted up legally.

 

I think if you relinquish your imaginary control, and choose the path of least resistance (while at the same time protecting yourself and your children) it may stun her out of this indefinite 'stall pattern' she's placed everyone in.

 

Perhaps once she sees you've stopped resisting, and resolved to accept the fact that she no longer wishes to be married to you, she'll pause long enough to reconsider the permanence of this very serious life choice she is about to make. Particularly when you suddenly stop taking responsibility to make those decisions for her.

 

Remember... a legal separation doesn't have to end in divorce should the two of you change your minds during the required waiting period before it is finalized. Depending on your state laws, you could have upwards of a year or more to make up your minds about what you want to do. All a legal contract does is protect you, your rights, and your joint assets during the time your wife has already declared herself on hiatus from you and your marriage. I think that without it, you might be more vulnerable than you even realize.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, I can't remember who it was that had separated and then reconciled the marriage. Still.....I'm glad I made the mistake because that was a REMARKABLE post by EnigmaXOXO. Thought provoking as usual!

 

I want to send flowers to her apartment, with a card, and to just let her know that I'm thinking about her.

 

I'm not sure what to tell you about that Canuck.

I suppose it might depend on where you left off in the last conversation. If you agreed to NOT work on the relationship....then maybe the thing to do is to stand by that agreement.

 

On the other hand, if you feel strongly that you WANT to acknowledge the holiday, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't. You can always send her a note instead of a card, and just admit that you don't know what the protocol is for separated couples. Possibly an inexpensive gift might be more appropriate than flowers? A token of remembrance should this be your final Valentine's Day as man and wife? It's only natural after so many years that she would be in your thoughts. I suppose it's honest to admit it.

[CryingCanuck]

My W showed up at the house today, last night we had a very deep heart to heart talk about what went wrong and what I have done to hurt her so much. I told her how truly sorry I am and that in most of what she says she is correct, but I decided not to dwell on that but on what I plan on doing for MYSELF in the future. Today she comes over and I'm nervous and a little surprised because there was no warning, but eventually we get to talking about our problems and I can see in her eyes that she has again changed or is having real dobuts about the separation and she asked me if it's OK if for the time being we start slowly to try to rekindle what was lost and see each other a little more. Instead of jumping for joy I decided that I don't want to play games anymore or push the subject, and told her that I would like that but that if she's serious about giving it another round that we do as she asks but also that maybe when she's ready and only then, that we start back into couselling. Anyway I'm somewhat happy but very leery since we've been up and down this path a number of times since this mess began 4 months ago today. Anyway thought I'd bring you up to speed.

[Ladyjane14]

That sounds like a pretty good start, Canuck. Glad to hear it.

[CryingCanuck]

We're at least talking, she's so obviously full of doubts about what she is doing and how she has acted over the past 2 months since she moved out. Going from 98% sure she will be coming home, to two weeks ago saying that she's giving up, to now, where she is full of doubts about everything she has and is doing. Yesterday we were together a bit and again talked about things and what we want out of marriage.

 

I can see the doubt in her eyes and her voice, but I also see an uncontrolled anger, one that gets built up over years of not dealing with it for fear of having someone not like her or fear of looking bad and also, it's easier to simply ignore something negative then to deal with it head on and then move on.

Yesterday my W told me that she could be home tomorrow, she said she wants to so bad, but she wonders if it would be for the wrong reasons, the house, the familiarity, the companionship, and yes the love, but again the "I'm not in love with you anymore but my feelings and love for you keep me from doing anything permanent." I've lost so much patience with this whole mess, as I said before, I in many ways simply want to let go and move on but my love and other reasons keep getting in the way also.

 

I'm tired of being alone, but to be honest, if it was permanent I'd still be alone since I have no intention of getting into something with anyone anytime soon, as many here say it takes a long time especially after 23 years together to simply move on.

 

Posting here really helps, but it's sad also knowing that there are so many here who apparently left their marriages and in many ways regret the decision, especially if there is no abuse or infidelity, such as mine, simply a build up of anger by someone who is a chronic depressive and still hasn't learned how to deal with anger in a positive manner instead of destructive.

 

thanks for listening/reading. just wanted/needing to vent a bit.

[Devildog]

Canuck, I caution you to stay strong. I know it is hard, but you have a real chance at saving your marriage here. Don't push her, but keep doing what you are doing, going to counselling, anger management. If she sees that you are becoming a better person through these things, she might see the value of getting into counselling herself. She has to be the one who decides to go, but you can show her, not tell her, but show her, that there is value in it.

 

Hang in there, you have a better chance of saving your marriage than most do.

[CryingCanuck]

Thanks DD,

 

I know I have to be strong and hang in, it's really what I want, and I will, just that my wanting to "fix things" right away has blown up in my face with this so many times now, I get so frustrated and impatient. Your words of encouragement help actually tears came just as I read your post, what you said is so true.

 

I will keep up the couselling and stress/anger management regardless of what happens to us.

 

I would like to keep posting here though, it's such a release in some ways and helps too.

 

CC

[Devildog]

Like I have said before, in these situations our instincts can be our own worst enemy. And we usually end up pushing the other person away when we try to show them our love.

 

You are doing good here. You just need to make sure you don't initiate all the talk of reconcilliation. Let her bring it up, and try your best to keep your emotions in check when she does. Make sure she knows that you want to make sure she is ready to come back into the marriage before she comes back.

 

You can post anytime you need to. It's your board just as much as it is anyone else's here. And there are plenty of good folks here that will listen and offer support.