Is it finally over?

[Ladyjane14]

I can see the doubt in her eyes and her voice, but I also see an uncontrolled anger, one that gets built up over years of not dealing with it for fear of having someone not like her or fear of looking bad and also, it's easier to simply ignore something negative then to deal with it head on and then move on.

 

In a long standing marriage resentments do build up. It's like a thick layer of crud that literally blocks all of our softer emotions. It's too difficult to feel your love for someone when you're soooooo doggone frustrated with them.

 

I have to admit, I was flabbergasted to realize that I really did still love my husband. In the time before our marriage crisis neither one of us felt like we were 'in love' with each other. My husband was equally shocked I think....once all the "crud" was removed.

 

Devildog is right. Sometimes what we need to do doesn't feel all that natural to us. Your instincts can truly lead you astray because your instincts will often ask you to put YOUR emotional response first. That's why it's important to look at your situation from EVERY angle....and to have patience while you're drawing conclusions.

[mablung]

I guess, as usual, I don't necessarily have a solution or firm advice, but I can relate to what you're going through. My wife is oscillating, and having second thoughts - she's been doing that for the past 6 months or more. There is still love - a lot, just as I'm sure there is in your case as well. That's good.

 

The bad part is that she really has to figure out why she wants to come back, and to be really at peace with that. In my case, the inability to come at peace with either decision (divorce, or a second attempt) is what is making her oscillate like this.

 

The soft good feelings did and do come up several times, quite often. Even through the very, very thick layer of pain & frustration.

I think that what you need to do is be very patient, with her as well as with you, and try as much as you can not to push her around. It's apparently really easy to do that - I've been doing it myself, a lot more than it was healthy for either of us.

Also, DO try to re-evaluate your principles/ideas/beliefs - it's a very good time to do so.

 

On a sidenote, I am truly surprised how many things in common our situations have...

 

Be patient, and take care, and do keep posting. I hope things work out - don't lose hope, and don't give up or give in, not to ALL the good stuff that comes after so many years of living together.

[Xillr8ng]

mablung... Amen to everything you said...I am right where you are in the stream of time.She has not responded to me or even to her own attorney yet and the clock is ticking.I'm am not sure what to do.

[CryingCanuck]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. Two days ago she asked me over to her place to have coffee and watch a movie, we ended up turning off the TV and talking, actually this time it was all her talking and me listening.

 

A ton of tears and you could see the pain/hurt and frustration and sadness in her her eyes but also you could see her grasping to hang on to certain things. I'm really trying my best to do what many here have suggested, backing off, no pressuring and no time limits. Letting her figure out what she wants to do. The only thing I've been telling her is that I'll be here IF or When she's ready to try to fix it. We're still not yet ready to go back into couselling, she's still too angry and I think that it will take some time for that to resolve itself.

 

The sad part about all this is that 13 years ago we went through almost similar stuff and I honestly believed that we/she had delt with her demons.

It's so sad to hear her say things like "I thought you would take care of me" "I trusted you to never hurt me" "I thought you would make me happy" This time I didn't respond, but in the back of my mind all I could think of was " WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR DOING THESE THINGS FOR YOURSELF" Am I missing something here?

 

Anyway I'm doing the best I can, not sitting around and brooding, trying to move on with the thought in the back of my mind that I'll be here if she decides she wants to try to repair this.

 

Thanks again for your input.

[mablung]

in that case, you're doing a great job, CryingCanuck.

Make sure she understands you're willing to help her either way, too, but try not to be too pushy when offering your support.

 

Also, while I believe honesty is always a prerequisite for any kind of relationship, and while it is perfectly natural for _you_ to also get frustrated during conversations (especially ones that come with tons and tons of emotional load), please try to keep calm and patient, and not to be too argumentative. There will be moments when you can bring those issues up, but most likely those moments are not when either of you is emotionally worked up and filled with frustration...

 

Don't forget all those questions that you feel need to be asked: they will be asked, all I"m saying is that it's worth being patient and waiting for the right time to ask them.

 

I think the way these situations work is that first some time has to pass for healing...and only then can you both start rebuilding something, or repairing...

 

So hang in there, and good luck.

[CryingCanuck]

As so darn hard as it is, I'm doing what I should have been doing right from the start, practicing my stress Mng't techniques and not calling or finding a reason to call even though our youngest has been there since Thursday. This house is so bloody big especially with only me here and the dog...

She came over two days this week while I was out, to do laundry but also to help clean the place, I'm doing my best but with work and the stress and stuff it's so hard, anyway the first day we talked she stayed a little longer than I expected, and it was OK, haven't spoken to her since.

 

That day she suggested we get together Saturday (tonight), but since I haven't spoken to her and I'm not calling, I doubt we'll get together, especially with her illness and her forgetfulness. Just an update on what's been happening. Actually not much, but I guess in some ways a lot since I'm hanging in but also trying to concentrate on other things and maybe thinking of my future without my W and reconciling my feeling.

[mablung]

Hey, hang in there

I know what you're saying about the big house. But, but, you still have the dog - and as funny and stupid that may seem, trust me, it does make a difference. There's a huge difference between having _someone_ or some living soul with you in the house, and having absolutely nothing or noone. It was the same with us: we had 2 cats, and I let her take both (I knew it would be easier for her if she had them)... Neither of us expected that they'd make such a big difference - and I was only aware of it after she took them...

 

G'luck tonight if you're getting together; if not, then just try to take care of yourself, do something for yourself, whatever you may enjoy. Don't just sit indoors and brood, because that won't make you feel any better

So hang in there, and take it easy.

[Ladyjane14]

....and she asked me if it's OK if for the time being we start slowly to try to rekindle what was lost and see each other a little more.

 

A couple of weeks ago, you two had decided to "see each other a little more". Has that changed?

 

Because if not, I don't see any problem in giving her a call to see if she still wants to get together tonight. I would certainly keep it low-key...you know a movie or something simple like that. Preferable something that you would do anyway and she can just 'tag along'. If she says 'no', then give her an easy out by letting her know that you remembered she said 'something about Saturday', and just wanted to be sure before you commit yourself to any other plans. Let her know you're just bored and looking for something to do.

 

Then....get out and do something. Call a friend, or one of your kids and get out of the house for awhile. Have some fun.

 

You're not in a 'No Contact' situation....you're in a 'No Pressure' situation. There's a difference, right? You needn't leave EVERYTHING up to your wife. That's cause for pressure too in a way, because eventually she'll start feeling weird about contacting you.

[CryingCanuck]

Actually LJ we actually decided a few weeks ago, more like 3 that we're to NOT see each other as much as before since she's so upset with how things have transpired before that. I've seen her a few times since then, a couple of times a week, but not much more than that and I've really laid off the talk about us and the pressure. I also suggested back then that because it appeared that I wasn't giving her the space she asked for and needed, that I not do the calling and I would leave it up to her and she said that, that would be a good idea, so I guess I have to stick to that. I know that my calling would be OK but I have to show her also that I am keeping my word and that my attempts at no pressure are for real. I guess I'll wait until a little later this evening and if I don't hear anything from her, I have to assume it's off and I'll go find something to do for the evening and not sit at home and wonder.

Also I'm wondering since she had such an emotional week, her letting out her feelings to me and apparently to her Psych, that maybe seeing me right at this time isnt a good idea and she's not comfortable telling me and hoping I'll get the hint and not call.

Who knows.......

[Ladyjane14]

I must've missed a memo there. Now that you've cleared it up for me, I agree....you're doing the right thing.

 

In fact, you've been doing "the right thing" quite a bit during what has to be a very difficult time in your life. I think you're handling your situation quite admirably all around.

[CryingCanuck]

Thanks LJ,

 

Hopefully it's not "too little too late", regardless, if this eventually fixes itself great, but I'm determined not to repeat those same mistake regardless of where my life takes me.

 

I know it hasn;t been all that long since we've separated, but it feels at times like forever and I want the roller coaster to end, but unless I'm prepared to simply throw in the towel, I have to stay on for the whole ride.

 

Anyway thanks for the support it does really help.

[CryingCanuck]

My W did call last evening and asked if I was still interested in getting together. We decided on my going to her place, and we ended watching a movie, then after that she initiates another discussion about us.

 

She is wavering so much between wanting to come home and ending it. I simply told her the door is open for her and I'mm be there when or if she decides she wants to work on things.

She at one point said to me, "sometimes I wish you would just let me go" "Give up on us and tell me you've had enough so that you could get your life back and maybe find someone else who wouldn't put you through this"

 

I remained quiet and told her simply that I'm not anywhere near giving up, I have a lot more resilience than I realized and that I in many ways I deserve this. I have to admit, that her comment really did break my heart but I tried my best not to show it.

I know that this is going to be a long time, but in some ways she is so close to the truth about my wanting to pack it in, but I'm not there yet, I don't know if I will ever be.

[mablung]

She at one point said to me, "sometimes I wish you would just let me go"

 

Same here - although for different reasons (in my case I was the bad guy). Even if you don't want to let go, you should still try to at least give her some time to figure out stuff for herself, and to catch her breath, if nothing else. I'm not sure that trying to take it easy _now_, without a little time in between, is the best idea - but I probably don't know enough about your situation to make a definitive judgment...

[CryingCanuck]

Not sure what I can say about the situation regarding good guy/bad guy in this instance. We're both in our own ways trying to figure things out. Her illness is the main cause of our problems yes, but I too take a lot of the responsibility for our troubles, I'm no treat to live with at times also. But marriage like many things is a give and take and especially a patience exercise and in all honesty I feel my patianece for what's going on is being tested like something I haven't felt in years.

 

Now I'm noticing that a lot of money is being spent on herself and since we both agreed that there was no need to get a formal separation agreement signed at this time, we both agreed that we would ensure that we didn't raid the accounts and slowly it seems like that is what's happening. Not the whole thing but it's being used when it's not supposed to and the excuse I'm getting is that I ran short this month.

 

My W is away for a 4 day long weekend visiting a girlfriend out of town, which will cost a bundle as it always does, and I know there will be a bill sometime next month on one of the credit cards that I will be paying...

 

Just venting here, I'm stil not there yet about a formal separation, nor anything to do with paperwork, it's just too final in my mind.

 

I'm getting there though, while still hoping that we can fix this mess eventually. The NC has been working to an extent, we see each other 2 or 3 times a week but it's at times strained and I honestly sometimes feel like I don't want to see her but I know I should if I want this to get better, guess I have some anger issues that I'm not dealing with yet about the whole thing.

[Ladyjane14]

Now I'm noticing that a lot of money is being spent on herself and since we both agreed that there was no need to get a formal separation agreement signed at this time, we both agreed that we would ensure that we didn't raid the accounts and slowly it seems like that is what's happening. Not the whole thing but it's being used when it's not supposed to and the excuse I'm getting is that I ran short this month.

 

My W is away for a 4 day long weekend visiting a girlfriend out of town, which will cost a bundle as it always does, and I know there will be a bill sometime next month on one of the credit cards that I will be paying...

 

The money issue will need to be addressed, Canuck.

I know you're hesitant to rock the boat....but Reality doesn't wait for people to get their act together. Living within the budget is a reality which cannot be ignored.

 

Are you both drawing money out of the same account? If so, it might be time to separate some of your financial matters...particularly access to available cash.

 

Does your wife work? Because it may be necessary for her to get a job and start supporting herself. This too is a "reality" which cannot be ignored. If your separation becomes permanent, you won't be supporting her financially in perpetuity.

 

It's going to be difficult for you to address this, because money matters can be a hot topic. But you don't necessarily have to file legal separation if the two of you can come to an agreement without mediation.

 

You know, I have to be honest with you.....I have a problem with one or the other partner avoiding the consequences of their decisions. I think there's quite a bit of value to be had in facing reality. The longer "reality" is evaded, the longer the separation will last. The bubble of fantasy must eventually burst.

 

It's pure fantasy for your wife to believe that you'll continue on in the capacity of 'Safety Net' for an indefinate amount of time. I'm sure you can feel the resentment growing within you as you examine your bank statement. The resentment will continue to grow as time goes by and your needs continue to remain unmet.

 

Fiscal responsibility is an EN for so many married people, and it's one which is particularly illustrative. You can't put your budget on the backburner without facing immediate consequences like you could if it was an unmet need for conversation or physical intimacy. Nope...when your EN for fiscal responsibility is unmet, you might not be making your mortgage payment.

 

As the separation continues and you are left with NONE of your ENs being met, your resentment will grow. If you protect yourself a little bit by entering into negotiation of the budget.....you may actually be able to increase the amount of time you can afford to give her "space".

 

The window of opportunity closes with a snap. She will eventually run out of chances with you. One day you'll be fully open to reconcilliation, missing your wife and wanting her back, and then one day you'll be DONE. You give her more time to get her act together when you refuse to allow yourself to be victimized by her indecision.

 

The bottom line is that the relationship is changing. It will either survive the changes or it won't. You can increase the odds in your favor by keeping a wary eye on your level of resentment.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I hope what I'm about to say doesn't contradict the excellent feedback and advice you've already been receiving from Lady. While the optimist in me remains hopeful that you'll eventually reconcile … the realist in me can't help but worry that without taking steps to become more self-protective, you'll end up losing a lot MORE than just your part-time wife. "The path of least resistance" does not mean becoming a doormat.

 

While I agree with LJ about coming to some kind of an agreement regarding finances, I must reiterate that verbal negotiations, hand shakes, and promises are only as solid someone's word. Given your description of your wife's past/current behavior … it doesn't seem as if her "word" holds very much value. If she were a different person, I might suggest otherwise.

 

You know, I have to be honest with you.....I have a problem with one or the other partner avoiding the consequences of their decisions. I think there's quite a bit of value to be had in facing reality. The longer "reality" is evaded, the longer the separation will last.

 

I agree.

[CryingCanuck]

Thanks to both of you and yes her word at times has not been kept, and this has been a problem through most of our relationship and also with others our kids in particular, they have said on a number of occasions that Mom doesn;t follow up on a lot of things she says. As far as resentment goes, it is slowly building and yes there will be a time, not in the distant future I feel, where I'll more than likely simply decide to take matters in my own hands and our troubles and separation die. I know deep in my heart that I've done most of the things she has asked and I feel I've gotten nowhere and as much as the thought of it happening breaks my heart, I will in no more than 2 months from now, end it with the thought of it being over for good. Scary yes, but I can;t go on living in this limbo forever, I do have resilience but time is quickly running out for us I think.

[Ladyjane14]

I know deep in my heart that I've done most of the things she has asked and I feel I've gotten nowhere and as much as the thought of it happening breaks my heart, I will in no more than 2 months from now, end it with the thought of it being over for good. Scary yes, but I can;t go on living in this limbo forever, I do have resilience but time is quickly running out for us I think.

 

In that case, there's nothing to be lost in addressing the financial aspects of separation. I'm in agreement with Enigma on getting it in writing. I wasn't sure that you'd be ready for that though.

 

I'm out of here for a few weeks, so I won't be reading or posting for awhile. Do try to keep your spirits up, and remember to focus your efforts on 'the man in the mirror'. No matter what the final outcome turns out to be in regards to your marriage, you'll be pleased that you used this crisis in your life as an opportunity to learn and grow.

 

Good Luck.

[CryingCanuck]

Hi LJ and thanks for your patience with me. neither am I sure that I'm ready for a written separation agreement also, but as we've discussed, I do have to move forward and on, whether or not this thing ever gets resolved. I'm not closing any doors at this time, believe me that's the last thing I want to do, I'm just thinking that maybe I've been a little too easy for what reason? guilt?, sympathy?, hope?, who knows, maybe just plain old fashion love.

 

This week might be the breaker in some ways, not sure why I think this way but I'm so tired of all this limbo living, time to break loose somehow. Not going to push her away, but I think it's time that I get my act together and get off the ride.

 

Talk to you when you get back, you take care and again thanks so much for all your input over this past month or so.

 

BTW, one last thing for now, I look in th emirror and still see the same person, only a bit wiser maybe.

[Ladyjane14]

This week might be the breaker in some ways, not sure why I think this way but I'm so tired of all this limbo living, time to break loose somehow. Not going to push her away, but I think it's time that I get my act together and get off the ride.

 

Okay...I got time for another post...

 

When your patience starts to wear thin, it can help you to become more proactive in your life. You've been expending alot of emotional energy on your wife. You need to replenish your reserves.

 

That means taking a bit of a break from and the hurt and worry. Sometimes it's not feasible to go on a vacation...but it IS possible to treat yourself as if you were. That means giving some serious pampering to yourself....being your own best friend and looking out for number one.

 

Similar to what I told you about before, this is yet another way that you can arrange to give the separation a little more time before you run out of gas. The idea is to keep your love tank from running completely empty. That's why I told you to avoid resentment when possible.

 

So...schedule some activities that you enjoy. Arrange to meet up with some friends or family for dinner. Buy yourself a little something special. Make a concerted effort to give yourself a respite from the stress you've been under by being nice to Canuck. Eat right, sleep right, and get some excersize too.

 

In the meantime...when you're here at LS...read some posts by Devildog, Massive Atom, Yikes, Reservoirdog1, and other men who have lived through an unwanted divorce and come out on the other side. There IS healing. These guys prove it.

 

You'll do alright, just remember that "keeping your spirits up" requires dedication to the effort. Don't let yourself get bogged down.

[CryingCanuck]

Haven't posted here in a few and thought i might bring you an update on things.

If you've read my posts you will know the story. I've been keeping a pretty low profile with my W and she's been coming to the house a lot recently to help keep the place clean and doing some other stuff.

 

We have been talking but as I said previously, I'm keeping a very low profile on things and letting her do the initiating. This past week she has talked more about having a very open door to our reconsiliation and on Thursday evening we were talking about the house ( painting and stuff like that to get it ready for sale) and she asks me if maybe I can hold off on listing it for a while. I told her I would like that, but being in limbo like this is hard on both of us.

 

She comes over the next day and we're watching TV or something and talking and she starts crying and telling me how tough this separation is, and how hard on her. ON HER????? I kept my cool and simply said that it's been an emotional roller coaster for both of us I imagine. Well the evening turns out OK and shen she leaves she starts crying again, and I asked very simply, "why the tears? Did I do something wrong? She answers me, "tonight you did everything right" not sure what it meant, she came the next morning to pick up our son to take him back to our hometown for Spring break and haven't called her or spoken to her since, however, she's called 3 times but I've missed all the calls.

 

So I guess nothing is final, I'm still keeping my distance, and slowly pulling away and trying not to get my hopes up or hope for a miracle.

That's about it...

[Xillr8ng]

I think you ARE doing everything right....I wish my STBXW was responding like yours...I am scared to get my hopes up as well,so when I find myself going there I quickly stop myself and focus on something else...I think your update is very good indeed...Keep hanging in there and best wishes to you both...

[CryingCanuck]

Yeah she's responding positively, but with her history of oscillating, who knows?

I might say one thing that sets this whole thing off again and back to square-one.

Also, as much as I truly do love my W do I want to get back? I know that sounds silly after fighting so hard to get our marriage back, but now that maybe there might be light at the end of the tunnel, do I want to have to go through this again?

Yes I do but no also...

 

Maybe I'm as mixed up as her or maybe I'm just being cautious who knows.

 

Will keep you guys informed as to what transpires, and I have to say regardless of what eventually happens here, I am so glad I ran across this site, so many here are going through or have gone through exactly what I presently am and it's a comfort to know I'm not alone.

 

Yes misery does like company......

[MisterX]

CC-

 

You've got so much going on in your mind my only thoughts are good luck to you and hang in there!! I know what i'm talking about , i am in a similar boat as you and going through non-stop questions in my own mind..

 

i beleive my wife has pretty much dictated the terms of our marriage with alot of very controlling and manipulative behavior..i TOTALLY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for my own part in this..I LET IT HAPPEN!!!..

 

i simple never considered that "NOT LOVING" my wife was an option..based on your posts, it looks like you might be having the same thoughts.. you say you love her but do you really?? i'm only asking!!!...i am thinking about alot of the same things you are and as i sit here today i say I Still love my wife..i always will, but i'm not sure we should be married. i"m out of the house, the kids havent freaked out (they're very upset tho), and i am actually getting more and more used to not being under my wife's thumb.

 

anyway....i just wanted to share thoughts i bet there are lots and lots of lurkers who are going thru similar stuff...one key thing is to keep in mind is to try to focus on what you really want to DO...in other words, what's the action...i sent a card to my wife that talked about happiness in not a destination..its the journey....loving somebody is kind of the same thing...

you can love her every day and every minute,but that doesnt mean you'll be together....or even that you want to be together...i am struggling with the same line of thought..

[CryingCanuck]

Hi thanks for the input, and yes I do have a lot of thinking to do these days.

There really isn't any question about my love for my wife but maybe more about whether or not I want to take a chance on this happening again.

 

We're in contact all the time now we see each other every other day, and a lot on weekends, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm scared that all I have to do is say something that gets here going and we could be back to where we were 6 or 7 weeks ago.

 

I'm prepared now though for the worse, I have let go but I honestly want to try to rekindle or rediscover our marriage if we can agree on some very basic rules and guidelines and she finally lets go of her built-up resentment and anger towards me and can look at me in a different light.

 

A few weeks ago, one of our kids told her that they are so angry with her, and that she is very selfish and some other mean things, they went on to tell her that she is blaming the wrong person for her unhappiness, that I'm not the cause of most of her problems that I'm a really good guy with faults like anyone else and that with her running away or hidding, she's is not a good role model in many ways bacause of what she has done previously and presently. When I found out about what was said I was angry in some ways about her being spoken to that way by one of her children, but the kid was right in so many ways and my W does have to grow up and accept a lot of what's happened to her within our marriage and ALSO BEFORE as being of her own doing and she has to let it go and not run her life.

 

Anyway, the road is not straight and narrow but bumpy and full of potholes and hopefully we can get on the right path and spend whatever time we have left together in relative happiness and put this behind us.

 

Thanks again for your input.