Religious differences when getting married-parent problems, faith q's

[neek]

Okay, so here's what brought me to join LS this week.

 

I'm recently engaged and I want nothing more than to just simply be happy about it!! But...my parents are making a huge deal about having a Catholic wedding. I was raised Catholic but my fiance does not believe in God...so we have to figure out how the church will let this work. My F is very hesitant though because he is uncomfortable with it all (and I want him to be able to enjoy the wedding too!) To me, it's not a huge deal whether or not we have a church wedding - I have a very pretty outdoor wedding spot in mind. Problem is, priests wont marry outside the church. Okay...so I would be fine with a minister who would. And if my F ever became okay with the church wedding, I'd be okay with that too. I'm not even asking for there to be a whole mass involved. But just as I am willing to compromise and not demand it in a church with a mass, he cannot demand of me that God is not involved at all. Hence, why I'd at least ask for a minister to do the ceremony and would be fine with outdoors. Now we just have to figure out all the rules.

 

Now...I said I was raised Catholic. However once going to college I didn't really go to church much anymore except for when I went home to visit my family some weekends. And up until now (the engagement and having to make REAL plans) I never really questioned my faith. I am starting to though. There are many things about Catholicism I dont agree with...so one of my reasons for posting this is to ask:

 

What is the difference between Catholicism and other Christian religions as far as beliefs and customs? Especially Catholic vs. Lutheran?

 

I am told Lutheran is pretty much Catholic but without a lot of the customs and rules. Can anyone be more specific about this? I intend to look into this more online, but thought I'd ask people on here too.

 

I can get more into what I have problems with at a later time but wanted to ask this right off the bat to get some info. (And so this post isn't forever long.)

 

It's just causing so much turmoil between my parents and I. My father especially. He has gone so far as to say that he cannot see himself rationalizing a non-Catholic wedding and if it wasn't one he would not help pay. Now...to me that sounds like a bribe! Sell yourself to the church sweetie! Uhh...sorry dad but this is MY decision, MY life, and MY marriage, you had yours, let me have mine. And I don't want this to become all about stupid money!! That should not govern how I have my wedding! (Well, with respect to faith anyway.)

 

It's just so sad that my own parents are opposed to letting me figure this out for myself. I have never felt more unaccepted by them! I have every right to decide for myself what it is I believe and what faith I want to follow without them passing judgement on me, just as I don't pass judgement on them for being (apparently such hardcore) Catholics. I owe it to myself to know what it is I want. I'm so hurt by it all that Ive been crying way more than I've been able to be excited that my love has asked me to marry him!! If I do get married in the Catholic church, I want it to be because I choose to, not because it's what mom and dad are making me do. Geez!!! THEY should want me to want it too! Otherwise, they're asking me to lie to myself, them, and God. And how is that very Catholic of them??

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation that can offer advice? Everyone tells me they will come around, but I'd bet they're willing to hold out until I'm the one to crack and I don't have time for that! I'm stuck in such a hard place between my F and my parents that I can't even figure out what it is that I want.

 

I feel like I'm in George Orwell's 1984 and my parents are the Thought Police.

 

Sorry to go on forever, I just have a lot to get off my chest. I'll save some for later. This was forever long anyway.

[Becoming]

With re: to Catholicism and Lutheranism: Luther loved most of the Catholic customs of the church. He didn't believe forgiveness could be sold by the church since it had been paid for by Christ and was offered as a free gift. He didn't think priestly power transubstantiated communion elements, but he did believe in Christ's real presence in elements through the ubiquitous spirit of Christ filling all things by virtue of his having become flesh. He had a problem with church authority ruling over individual believer's interpretations of the Bible, which he held as the primary authority over church authority.

 

In many Lutheran churches you will find many familiar customs. The worship service is very similar in many Lutheran churches. A corporate prayer of confession is done instead of individual private confession, emphasizing our common brokenness to God and one another as the beginning of the service, which, at its best, culminates in eucharist kneeling at the rail. Many Lutheran churches don't celebrate communion every Sunday, though. They ordain women and have married clergy. They don't pray to saints or revere Mary or the reserved host.

 

The best way to learn about various denominations is to do some basic research and then go see for yourself. There are liberal and conservative Lutheran churches, Episcopalian churches, Presbyterian churches, United Church of Christ, United Methodists, Disciples of Christ, etc. These are the ones you might want to check out as being closest to Catholicism. There are liturgically high and low churches in each of these denominations.

 

Best wishes. And Congratulations!

[Me I Think]

Neek,

While I can't offer you a solution to your situation. I thought letting you know that you are not alone may help. My wife's half brother {same mom different dad} recently got married. There was so much confusion between the families as to wich type of church to hold the weding in that the two decided to get married alone in Texas when he graduated AIT. Upon returning to TN. her father said that he did not see the wedding so as far as he was concerned they were not married. He refused to allow C {my brother in law} into his house. C was being stationed in Japan and her father refused to let her go and threatened to do anything in his power to stop her from going to Japan untill they were married in front of him. So they set up a wedding at the church her family attends. Now even though they were already married and this was being done to shut her father up. His dad refused to come saying that no son of his would ever be married in any church other than church of christ. After the wedding his dad started basicly the same thing saying that they were living in sin because they were not married. So they had another wedding at the church of christ that his dad attends. Well any way it is all over now and everyone seems to be O.K. with things. This is a very extream measure just to keep family happy. But they are together with no more family conflicts and are loving Japan. Everytime he calls I tell him now he is really in trouble because he has three aniversarys to remember and that he has to buy her something for all three. I don't know that this is a good solution but it worked for them. They can finally sit back and enjoy thier lives together and not have to worry about what side of the family dissapproves.

I do hope your situation works out well, and I wish you both the best.

[a4a]

Neek this is the tip of the iceberg for you. If you have kids then what?

 

You and your soon to be husband have to decide for yourselves how you want to be married. If your parents are attempting to control the marriage before you are even married you need to take a good hard look at things to come. If your fiance is unwilling to bend to your desires to be married in a Catholic church or any church for that matter deal with this religion issue before you get married.

 

I really think couples need to outline their expectations honestly before they marry, that way there is a better chance of success.

 

Are you hoping your F is going to just go along with it and go against his desires? My Hs family expected a "religious wedding" ........ but too bad as neither of us believe. Not one word of god or holy was used in our ceremony.

We hashed this out early on. Of course neither of us were religious just his family is........so a tad easier.

[neek]

Thanks Becoming, Me_I_Think (ouch, three weddings to appease the fam!) and a4a for responding. I want to write back and continue the conversation but I'm at work...grr, silly work getting in the way of my internet conversations!! I'll be back later!

[penkitten]

i understand that your parents feel strongly about their religion and have threatened not to help with expenses, but you arent marrying dear old dad.

 

a catholic wedding is not going to take place unless your fiance converts and does his catechism classes. after that, then maybe the priest will marry you.

 

if your fiance is not willing to convert and feels strongly, then i see his point. i can also see your point about wanting a happy day, which involves a little bit of religion.

 

 

if it were me, i would just talk it out with the fiance , talk about both your beliefs and decide now what is best for your family. later if children are involved, how will you explain things? will you take them to church and tell them about jesus ? will he attend? if not , can you meet in the middle and take them and him stay home? if you explain christmas in a religious way, will he be offended? is there going to be a christmas tree?

decide now what you feel is best to do as a family, so that way you do not have these fights later on that other people find themselves having.

 

 

once you discuss this, then you will know whats right to do for your wedding. it might be running off and getting married on the beach with a preacher in the bahamas. it is a special day for both of you and should be a decision made together.

[neek]

Becoming: Thanks for some beginning info. So you don't go to confession at all? You do it with the other church members as a whole?

 

"Many Lutheran churches don't celebrate communion every Sunday, though."

 

Does that mean it's random?

 

Do you know what the rules are for marriage if one person was not Christian at all? Do they marry outside the church? Would they make my F sign somethign saying he agreed that the children had to be raised in the faith even though he doesn't have to be responsible for it?

 

"He had a problem with church authority ruling over individual believer's interpretations of the Bible, which he held as the primary authority over church authority."

 

I agree with this...

 

Again, I am not doing this to try and make the process of getting married easier (actually I think the easiest thing would be just going along with the Catholic wedding without really questioning it)...I really want to learn more about different faiths. I just never gave it much thought before and it's about time I do. Thanks again.

 

~~~

Me_I_Think: Thanks for sharing that story, man that must have been stressful for them! I'm glad it all worked out in the end though. And it's good to know I'm not alone (not like I want others to have a hard time though). Thanks for the well wishes!

 

~~~

a4a: I know it is just the beginning. We have talked about what would happen with kids, and we will both be respectful towards each other. We've discussed this and I told him regardless of what documents he might have to sign for whatever way we get married...even if it wasn't a religious wedding and he didn't have to do that, I'd ask him anyway to not prevent me from taking our kids to church. He still thinks it's like forcing children to be a certain faith b/c they're so young they don't have a choice to go...and I can see his point, but at the same time, I also consider it a learning experience and they need to be exposed to it from an early age or else they just wont care (and once I learn more about other religions I do plan on telling my kids about their beliefs)...and I definitely know it is ultimately up to them to believe what they wish. So I want to expose them to Christianity and he is okay with it. On the flip side I fully agree that he has the right to tell them what he believes as well. Neither of us want each other to go and say "don't listen to mommy/daddy, s/he is nuts!"

 

Admittedly this would be a lot easier if we were of the same faith, but what am I supposed to do, not marry the only person I want to spend the rest of my life with that I love so much? I'll take the hard times instead.

 

No, I don't want him to go against his wishes, we have to figure out a way for it to work for us both.

 

As far as my parents go, I sure as hell hope they realize they don't have ultimate control over my life like that - I am trying to make it clear to them that they will not rule over my own decisions. I'm going to see them this weekend (WISH ME LUCK!). I know they are not COMPLETELY unreasonable and I can see them "bending" a bit already and relaxing up about it some...let's just hope this continues. I just hate fighting with them, it's so awful.

 

(Wait till I tell my dad I plan on moving in with my fiance in May. HA!! F.U.N.)

 

(BTW, a4a, you crack me up in some of your other posts!)

[neek]

a catholic wedding is not going to take place unless your fiance converts and does his catechism classes. after that, then maybe the priest will marry you.

 

he would not have to convert. they don't make you do that.

 

he will be fine with a tree and xmas music and me telling them what it's all about. he would not go to church though, i'd take them myself. i can deal with that.

[penkitten]

he would not have to convert. they don't make you do that.

 

my cousin had to convert to her fiances catholic religion and go thru the classes for 6 months before hand. maybe it depends on the church?

 

as far as most christian religions, it doesnt matter if the two are different in general however it is hard to find a church to marry you these days unless you are a member . this is the problem we had. we finally found one that didnt mind, but by golly they are so expensive.

 

my first wedding ( ex hubby) was at the court house, it was cheap and they didnt care what we were. we didnt go to chruch anywhere and i guess the court house worked out for us then.

[quankanne]

conversion to Catholicism is not necessary to be married in a Catholic church. However, the non-Catholic must agree to be open to bringing children into the marriage and raising those kids Catholic.

 

actually I think the easiest thing would be just going along with the Catholic wedding without really questioning it

 

hate to burst your bubble, but the Church takes marriage very seriously because they view it as a sacrament just like baptism and eucharist. If you plan to marry in a Catholic church, you and your spouse-to-be will be asked to go through a marriage preparation program. During/after this time, the couple will sometimes decide they're not actually ready for marriage and will postpone it, or the priest/couple doing the training will discern that the couple really isn't prepared to undertake the sacrament of marriage and will suggest that they wait. There's no booking the church and getting it overwith – this is serious stuff in the eyes of the Church.

 

one option you may consider is to have a civil ceremony, then at a later point have your marriage blessed by the church if your groom is willing to be married through the Catholic church. Again, this will entail a lot of discernment on their part because the church's belief in the sacramentality of marriage ....

 

as for your folks ... well, their heart is in the right place, wanting you to be married in a religious ceremony, but only you and your groom can decide that. If your guy is deadset against being forced into religious practice, you prolly will not marry in a highly religious and formal situation like a Catholic church wedding.

[neek]

actually I think the easiest thing would be just going along with the Catholic wedding without really questioning it

 

hate to burst your bubble, but the Church takes marriage very seriously because they view it as a sacrament just like baptism and eucharist. If you plan to marry in a Catholic church, you and your spouse-to-be will be asked to go through a marriage preparation program. During/after this time, the couple will sometimes decide they're not actually ready for marriage and will postpone it, or the priest/couple doing the training will discern that the couple really isn't prepared to undertake the sacrament of marriage and will suggest that they wait. There's no booking the church and getting it overwith – this is serious stuff in the eyes of the Church.

 

I don't think I phrased that right. I know it's not EASY to be married in the church and that all of the above is true and a requirement. What I meant to say was that to go through with having a Catholic wedding (should my F agree to it) would be just going along with Catholicism as I always have in the past because it is how I was raised. The real issue here is that I am questioning my faith...and I don't want to automatically just go with the Catholic church (if it is to be in a church at all) without first taking a serious look at other Christian faiths and deciding for myself what faith it is I REALLY want to follow. Does that make sense? It would be easier and less time consuming to not do the soul searching. By "questioning IT" I meant questioning my faith.

[quankanne]

Does that make sense?

 

yeah, it does. And I'm proud of you for being honest with yourself about this, because it's a hard thing to have to deal with. I was my niece's sponsor for confirmation and the night before the big event she was ranting about not knowing why she was doing this when she did understand or even particularly *want* to do this – I told her that I didn't want to be up there with someone who wasn't willing to be there, but she went ahead and did it because she felt it was her duty. And that's wrong. That kind of step should be considered carefully and done because it's a true choice, not because one is forced into it, IMHO. You're doing the right thing because you deserve to be whole-heartedly behind the decisions you make. Your folks love you, and they'll put whatever hurt behind them when they realize it's more important that you have a solid marriage.

 

mind you, they're going to do their best at praying you to a decision that's reflected in y'alls mutual Catholic faith!

 

a post-script: this sounds bad, but convalidation after you two tie the knot could be something that'll satisfy your parents desire to see you married by the Church and it'll fulfill any requirements the church has for you.

[neek]

Thanks for being proud of me quankanne, I'm glad SOMEONE is! I feel like I'm doing the right thing for myself but then my parents seem to think its just flat out wrong. But they're also teetering...one minute they're furious and demanding with me, and the next my mom is emailing me telling me to check out the Episcopalian church. I don't get it. I don't understand why they don't understand that everyone's choice is just that, their own choice they are entitled to.

 

I dont want to have to "validate" my marriage after it's done, especially if it's not done for us but for someone else, i.e. parents. That just seems ridiculous and unnecessary to me. Although, I have thought of that under the circumstances that if I really really wanted my wedding outside but also really really wanted it valid in the church, that it would be possible to do a quick, very small, ceremony in the church in the morning followed by the full blown outdoor wedding after with all the guests. Just an option, not really what Im leaning towards but it's a possibility.