How long till you are in the friends zone?

[blue16]

Is there a general rule to how long until a guy is in 'the friend zone'? I've heard lots of stories on here how the guy likes a girl, but is too scared to ask her out and he gets cast in the friends zone. I've heard other stories where the guy and girl start off as 'friends' but grow into more as time passes. So what makes these kind of situations different?

[luvtoto]

Good question...wish I had the answer...it puzzles me too.

[mrB2006]

I'd like to know as well....

 

I want to believe that 'friends' could become more (over time, of course)....

 

If you are friends with someone, you already know them. You know what their likes and dislikes are. You really know their soul. If she wasnt a pleasant person, then you would have stopped being her friend long ago. I'd like to think that knowing a person as a true friend would make a relationship easier to handle. However, I have heard that that could be a downfall in some relationships....

 

MrB

 

[noclobber]

I guess this question can best be answered by women. Because I think they are the ones that have rules like "i won't date you b'cos you are my friend". I am not saying that all women are like this but its very apparent that women prefer to date strangers but not their guy friends.

[loony]

The friends zone is not some black hole where you can never escape and it's not because you made a wrong move that cast you into the friends zone. You end up there, because after some evaluation from the girl's side, which might last from a couple of minutes to a couple of dates, she decided she didn't feel enough attraction for you. I sometimes stopped like people because I saw something that I didn't like and then I put them in the friends zone. They might get out of it one day, I think, if they overcome their problem, but most people are just very resistant to any major changes therefore they stay in the friends zone. Just because you are a friend doesn't mean that you are carrying a stigma that prevents you from ever becoming anything more, rather I think, as you don't change and the thing I don't like about you stays, why should my feelings for you change? Unless the flaw is not a real flaw and I was simply not fair in my judgement, of course, then you might stay as you are and my altered perception of you will lead me to reconsider my feelings for you. And being too skittish and too scared of her can be a "flaw" that many girls don't find very attractive.

 

If the potential for a real chemistry is there with time two people will feel the growing attraction and that's when friends become lovers.

[mrB2006]

Loony,

There is a lot of good information in your reply...Thank you...

 

MrB

[noclobber]

You end up there, because after some evaluation from the girl's side, which might last from a couple of minutes to a couple of dates, she decided she didn't feel enough attraction for you.

 

Hi Loony,

 

Can you throw more light on the "evaluation" part?

 

Thanks

[amerikajin]

A girl once told me, it's not the first impression that counts...it's the final impression.

[noclobber]

A girl once told me, it's not the first impression that counts...it's the final impression.

 

But a good first impression is required for her to consider going out with you. Is it not?

[blind_otter]

It takes zero time. I know within the first 5 minutes whether I would (ever) f*** a guy or not. If I know I would (at some point) want to f*** him, he will never be in the friends zone even if it takes years. I first met my most recent ex when he was married, years ago, and met him again 2 years after his divorce. Previously, he had been off limits, but I still knew that (if he were available) I would very much enjoy the prospect of f***ing him.

 

If I know that I wouldn't want to f*** someone, the fact remains true regardless of the amount of time/effort he may put into persuing me.

[amerikajin]

Yes, it's difficult to recover once she's developed attitudes about you that aren't consistent with what she wants in a mate - attitudes can be strong and time is short. But my experience mirrors what loony is saying...I've been in some situations where the girl has at first rejected me or thought one thing about me, then later gave me the signals that the game was on again. It didn't happen immediately, but over time.

 

True, in most cases, a girl doesn't know you, you make some impression on her that doesn't sit well, and she changes the channel so to speak. And because it's so much easier just to move on to someone else (for both of you), in an overwhelming majority of cases, that's all she wrote.

 

Although I don't advocate hanging around as a friend, there may be situations in which you can later reconnect as friends and develop something from that. I've had at least two relationships in which women have put me in the friends zone, only to have me come out of it later. I didn't hang around as a friend, but I guess they were comfortable enough around me to consider me a friend. If they didn't have anything to do on a Friday or Saturday, they'd call me up and likewise, and sometimes we'd just hang out. It eventually turned into more as they got to know me better and I started letting my guards down and stopped putting on a performance.

 

I do believe in some techniques when it comes to making a first impression - or at least not blowing your chances out of the water. Most important of which is to just sit back and let the woman chit chat on the first date/encounter/whatever you want to call it. I used to blow so many first dates by pushing too hard too soon. You should use this time to learn about your date.

 

But don't play games...be careful about reading too much of the D.DeAngelo/Doc Love stuff. Some of their advice about not coming on too strong in the beginning is good, but if I'd listened to the venerable loony a little sooner I woulda realized that some of their stuff is just crap. When you have a connection, you know it, and you will keep it unless you do something that royally f***s it up...which many times is simply by trying to be someone you're not.

[noclobber]

It takes zero time. I know within the first 5 minutes whether I would (ever) f*** a guy or not. If I know I would (at some point) want to f*** him, he will never be in the friends zone even if it takes years. I first met my most recent ex when he was married, years ago, and met him again 2 years after his divorce. Previously, he had been off limits, but I still knew that (if he were available) I would very much enjoy the prospect of f***ing him.

 

If I know that I wouldn't want to f*** someone, the fact remains true regardless of the amount of time/effort he may put into persuing me.

 

hahaha.. great post! you put things in black and white!

 

as much as we may want to sugar-coat the pill its true that physical appearence and the subsequent attraction is the major factor.

[amerikajin]

It's not really different from men.

 

Yeah, what otter's sayin is true...there's gotta be an attraction quotient. Raw attraction rarely ever goes away (for both sexes) unless the person just 'lets themselves go' and does unattractive things.

 

Case in point: there's this chick I have always thought was kinda cute but she's a smoker - that's a big turn off for me. But if she were ever to stop, I'd be more inclined to pursue her.

 

I'm sure it's the same for women, irrespective of whatever hangups may block their conscious ego from accepting a romance at any given time.

 

There is raw attraction (which is almost always there) and then there is the conscious ego which must give the final approval to the romance. It's the conscious ego that decides whether this really goes down or not. But all the while, mother nature is there pushing, urging, begging for it to take place...that natural urge lasts a long, long time.

[loony]

Hi Loony,

 

Can you throw more light on the "evaluation" part?

 

Thanks

Hm, it's just the part where you think if the guy you are having in front of you would be a good partner for you or not. I'm sure guys will do the same. People have different moral sets, different hobbies, different physical preferences, etc. All these things will be part of the evaluation process. A vegetarian might look for a non-meat eater, someone who likes sport might prefer a partner who is also into sports, a Christian might only go for someone of the same faith, others on the other hand might prefer a partner who is different and who offers them insight into different areas of life, what people seek in a partner is really varied and where you put the emphasis depends solely on you.

[loony]

Loony,

There is a lot of good information in your reply...Thank you...

 

MrB

Thank you, too

[loony]

I just realized, I think, you rather wanted to know what attracts women not how they evaluate, is that right, noclob?

 

One again, different things attract different people. I was once attracted to someone who might have been my size and even for a woman I'm a very small. Another guy had a belly. One guy I had asked out once was tall and scrawny, but I liked his face. I wasn't attracted at him at all in the beginning. He was one of the supervisors in one of my classes at university and it actually took me several courses with him till I felt some attraction. We had a talk once and he said something that made me think he was really nice. Something at that moment changed the way I perceived him and I thought I would like to go out with him.

 

Sometimes you can find someone attractive, but as you get to know this person your interest dwindles rapidly. This 'raw' attraction that Amerikajin talks about I think does exist, but I don't think that it will ever be so strong to overrule my other criteria. One of my friend whom I felt very attracted to in the beginning, as I considered him quite good-looking at that time, lost a lot of his appeal when I got to know him better. He once made a move at me and even though for a very short moment I felt some physical attraction, I just absolutely knew I did not really want him and I would regret it. I also do not find him that good-looking anymore as I did in the beginning as other stuff about him kind of turned me off.

 

For me physical attraction (= wanting to sleep with someone) does not necessary equal physical attractiveness and is not something that is set in stone, the way you carry yourself, the self-confidence you display, your character and your personality, influence the way someone perceives you.

[HotCaliGirl]

Is there a general rule to how long until a guy is in 'the friend zone'?I've heard lots of stories on here how the guy likes a girl, but is too scared to ask her out and he gets cast in the friends zone.

With most women it's an instant process, as soon as she meets a man she knows if she'd like for him to be friends or more than friends. The longer he waits, she might meet someone else in the meantime and she won't know he liked her. Or if she didn't think she'd be interested in dating, if he asks her out she might find out she likes him.

 

I don't think there is a set time. It could be one minute or never, for me out of the blue i might place the guy into the friend zone, it could be sad for me and him but once in the friends zone, it is hard to go back. For instance if it is going to take a total of 10 hours worth of time spent together before she moves him into a friend category, the ten hours can start after the guy waits one month or one week to ask her out. With another guy it could be a total of 10 years of time spent together and for no reason to pin-point she might feel he is now in the friend category.

[mrB2006]

About my experience with a 'friend'"

 

I must not have been in the friendzone completely because almost everytime we went out she would ask me some very personal questions...

 

About five months in to our 'relationship', she would ask me how many children I would want and what I would like at a wedding. (I am serious, I was really confused). She told me what she would name her kids and what kind of wedding. Then she would ask me if I would want to be in the 'swinger' scene...(I think that swinging is morally wrong. I told her and she shook her head in approval). What else did she ask me as a 'friend': Would I marry a rich woman I didn't love, or a poor woman that I did love? She asked me several times about any prior relationships. She asked me quite a few questions about sex. All of this was quite confusing for a lad like me. I truely felt like I was knocked down, but she kept tempting me with a future relationship....Either she was genuine or else she got a kick out of seeing a poor guy suffer.

 

She even asked me an 'indecent proposal' question, "If you and your spouse were having money problems, would you let her sleep with a millionaire"....I was shocked to say the least....And this was after me asking her if we would be a good couple....It was as if I was on the 'dating game'...I thought her answer to my question earler put me completely in the friendzone. But I guess I was wrong.

 

It also extended way past sex, marriage, and children. She is religious, so she went out of her way to share her faith with me.....I'm hooked now on religion. (Don't worry, I'll never become one of those biblethumping types. Those types are what is wrong with Christianity).

 

So, I think Loony is right...Some women keep the door open to some guys...I just comes down to whether the guy is willing to wait (while there are other available gals out there).

 

MrB

[amerikajin]

for me out of the blue i might place the guy into the friend zone, it could be sad for me and him but once in the friends zone, it is hard to go back

 

That's pretty much it, really.

 

A guy could later get out of the friends zone, but I'd say that's only going to happen with 1 in 10 or perhaps even 1 in 20 women. It does not pay to hang around and be stay in the friends zone, waiting, begging and pleading to get out of it - that's a big mistake a lot of guys make. There has to be a clean break and there has to be some sort of fortuitous intersection at a later time. Both people have to take a step back and look at things objectively; otherwise, the woman just gets annoyed because she knows that the guy has never really gotten past the fact that she does not yet accept him. And as Caligirl said, in the meantime, the girl will likely move on and find someone else. Ironically, though, in the two times I've had this kind of change of fortune, it has been after a woman has found another man and after I've left them alone. Once you show a woman that you don't need her, you will at least get some measure of respect and she will begin to look at you in a fairer, more objective light. That's usually your one and only fighting chance. But yeah, it's just so much easier for a guy to move on to someone else...there are lots of attractive women in this world.

[HotCaliGirl]

Once you show a woman that you don't need her, you will at least get some measure of respect and she will begin to look at you in a fairer, more objective light. That's usually your one and only fighting chance.

I totally agree.

[noclobber]

I just realized, I think, you rather wanted to know what attracts women not how they evaluate, is that right, noclob?

 

No Loony, I wanted to know about the evaluation part. And thanks for your detailed reply

[noclobber]

With most women it's an instant process, as soon as she meets a man she knows if she'd like for him to be friends or more than friends.

 

Wow!! this is the part that i find so surprising!

 

If you can so quickly place a guy into "friend" or "boyfriend" category then it is clearly based on physical attraction!

[loony]

Wow!! this is the part that i find so surprising!

 

If you can so quickly place a guy into "friend" or "boyfriend" category then it is clearly based on physical attraction!

But the physical attraction can a) change and b) is not only based on good-looks.

 

There might be a basic raw attraction as Amerikajin said, but it doesn't mean that someone for whom I feel this attraction will ever become my boyfriend. It might be in the corner of my mind somewhere, hidden so deeply that I don't care about it anymore. A lot of people are attractive, but so braindead that you even don't want to be seen with them.

 

Case 1: I see a good-looking guy. Just from his looks alone I feel attracted to him, meaning I put him into the boyfriend category for the time being, but it doesn't mean he will stay there.

 

Case 2: I see a guy who is not that good-looking. I don't feel any kind of attraction initially, but he has something about his personality that starts to capture my interest, so I might give him a chance.

 

Case 3: I see a guy who is not that good-looking and after getting to know him I still don't find any kind of sparks, so I will only consider him a friend.

 

Take in mind that what "good-looking" for me is, is not necessarily "good-looking" for someone else.

[noclobber]

But the physical attraction can a) change and b) is not only based on good-looks.

 

There might be a basic raw attraction as Amerikajin said, but it doesn't mean that someone for whom I feel this attraction will ever become my boyfriend. It might be in the corner of my mind somewhere, hidden so deeply that I don't care about it anymore. A lot of people are attractive, but so braindead that you even don't want to be seen with them.

 

Case 1: I see a good-looking guy. Just from his looks alone I feel attracted to him, meaning I put him into the boyfriend category for the time being, but it doesn't mean he will stay there.

 

Case 2: I see a guy who is not that good-looking. I don't feel any kind of attraction initially, but he has something about his personality that starts to capture my interest, so I might give him a chance.

 

Case 3: I see a guy who is not that good-looking and after getting to know him I still don't find any kind of sparks, so I will only consider him a friend.

 

Take in mind that what "good-looking" for me is, is not necessarily "good-looking" for someone else.

 

Thanks Loony!

 

I wrote that b'cos there was such a similarity between Blind_Otter and HotCaliGirl's posts. Both of them had written that they know if a guy will just be a friend or more within a very short time. But i do understand that things may change with time.

 

From your previous post:

 

a Christian might only go for someone of the same faith

 

Totally agree! As you know very well I have had this experience. My girl explicitly stated that she "will only marry a Jew or atleast a Christian".

[blind_otter]

Wow!! this is the part that i find so surprising!

 

If you can so quickly place a guy into "friend" or "boyfriend" category then it is clearly based on physical attraction!

 

Well the kicker is that guys are "hot" for more than just physical reasons. I've seen guys that were physically attractive, but they looked too "greasy" for me -- like they were slime balls, in terms of their personality.

 

There is and always will be that mysterious "I don't know what" feeling that you get. I call it the vibe, dude. I tend to be attracted more to like hippie/stoner types, for some reason. I just like that vibration, baby! Preppy guys just do not catch my eye. But that's not to say I don't think preppy guys are attractive. I just don't like suits.