Taking Jesus' teaching seriously...

[Admiral Thrawn]

A question to all the Christians, do you take Jesus' teachings seriously and apply them to your lives, or do you rationalise them with common sence?

 

a) Jesus says to give to whomever asks you of something - no limit.

(i.e., if I asked for your house, you are supposed to give me the deed and walk out and go on the street.)

 

b) Jesus says to love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, and to turn the other cheek.

 

c) Jesus says that if someone sues you for your coat, give them your cloak also. (i.e. if you got sued for something, you cant defend it, no matter what it is, and you have to pay double, whatever it is you have to pay, or abandon your home, and let them take whatever your own).

 

 

If you do not follow these teachings (among others), then your actions do not add up to your profession. So, unless you are poor and homeless, and have nothing to give, then you are at risk of disobeying a teaching. Does the Bible encourage people to be poor and homeless and not take care of themselves? I mean, if your boss doesn't want to pay you, you still have to continue working, right?

 

You all know where I stand, and I believe all of this, but right now, I'm struggling a bit since I do not know how to apply these teachings without going crazy. So, I'm asking for Christians here to help me out and explain how to apply these teachings without ending up on the street.

[lindya]

You all know where I stand, and I believe all of this, but right now, I'm struggling a bit since I do not know how to apply these teachings without going crazy. So, I'm asking for Christians here to help me out and explain how to apply these teachings without ending up on the street.

 

I'm not sure whether I'm qualified to answer this, as you possibly wouldn't view me as a Christian. Anyway, I'll try.

 

Most charismatic teachers will use metaphors to demonstrate their points. The use of metaphors can ignite a student's imagination and give greater impact to a point that is being made. By their very nature, however, metaphors shouldn't be taken literally.

 

You've run into problems on the board because you do tend to take all of these metaphorical teachings very literally...and from other people's perspective that doesn't make sense, because it would not be feasible for someone in this day and age (and, perhaps ever) to literally apply all the teachings of the bible without developing serious difficulties in relating to other people and running into some of the practical difficulties you've outlined.

 

If you interpret, and attempt to apply, all these teachings literally, you will constantly be setting yourself up for failure and feeling dissatisfied about yourself - as well as others who don't achieve the standards that you perceive the bible as having set for them.

 

So, do you adhere to the spirit of Christianity or to the letter of it? Think of the law of the land, for a minute. Think how loopholes in the law, pedantic interpretation of legislation and lawyers who focus on the manipulating the letter of it sometimes result in ludicrous decisions from those judges who focus on the letter rather than the spirit of the legislation. Those are the cases that often have to go to appeal - costing everyone time and money, because the original judge was unable to do what society expects of a judge (ie combine intellect and knowledge of the law with wisdom and common sense)

 

How do you interpret those lessons about turning the other cheek to your enemy, and giving your cloak to someone who sues you for your coat? Have you ever heard of a case where A sued B for his coat? Unless such things happen in reality, I think you have no choice but to accept that they are metaphors. A suing B for his coat = A gaining some advantage at B's expense.

 

You could view the cloak as a metaphor for forgiveness. B forgives A for suing him, not because he condoned A's actions, but because he knows that the act of forgiving someone allows you to let go of your resentment and bitterness towards them. If you don't let go of that resentment, it can influence your subsequent actions (towards A or other people in general). Some of the worst atrocities in the world have been committed by people who were motivated by deep-rooted resentments that they never learned to let go of. Hence the importance of learning to forgive.

[Moose]

a) Jesus says to give to whomever asks you of something - no limit.(i.e., if I asked for your house, you are supposed to give me the deed and walk out and go on the street.)

This is true, if you see your brother in need, and you have plenty. However, we are to use our brains, and be reasonable.

 

We are also to be good stewards of our possessions, and share whenever the need is there.

 

Furthermore, if you're a true believer, many of the things we own are fruits of our Spirit, blessings from God Himself.

b) Jesus says to love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, and to turn the other cheek.

I see no problem with this. I adhere to the, "kill em' with kindness" philosophy...

c) Jesus says that if someone sues you for your coat, give them your cloak also. (i.e. if you got sued for something, you cant defend it, no matter what it is, and you have to pay double, whatever it is you have to pay, or abandon your home, and let them take whatever your own).

There's a solution to this.....don't get sued.....

So, unless you are poor and homeless, and have nothing to give, then you are at risk of disobeying a teaching.

????? I don't think so......followers of Christ have every right to be successfull, and have plenty. In fact, personally, the blessings God has given me and my family is a great part of my testimony.

Does the Bible encourage people to be poor and homeless and not take care of themselves?

Not at all. I could be totally broke, and consider myself the richest man on Earth, AND, it's very possible I may not have a place to lay my head tomorrow night. But I know, very well, where my eternal home is.

I mean, if your boss doesn't want to pay you, you still have to continue working, right?

No....you don't. Find a job where you do get paid. God will take care of ALL your needs, however, you aren't to sit around on your duff expect manna from your ceiling.

So, I'm asking for Christians here to help me out and explain how to apply these teachings without ending up on the street.

I hope I just did. Besides that: Pray, Read the Scriptures, and meditate on these things.....

[Admiral Thrawn]

This is true, if you see your brother in need, and you have plenty. However, we are to use our brains, and be reasonable.

 

But, aren't you rationalizing the scripture to suit your own self? You wont sacrifice something that is going to hurt you if someone asks out of need or wanton. Jesus said to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

 

There's a solution to this.....don't get sued

 

What about a wanton lawsuit? Suppose X sues Y for $ 50 000, for the sheer wanton greed, even though the case has no merits?

 

Doesn't the Bible say, that even if the lawsuit is unjust, you should still not defend it, as it is the same as someone asking you for money?

 

So, if Zed, were to sue you for $ 20 000, you would pay him $ 40 000, instead in the spirit of matthew 5:40, and then complain that he should have asked you for it, because if he asked you, you would have given it to him anyway, and laugh at him.

 

The point could be that Jesus is saying not to take money or life too seriously and live in perspective of eternal life. Whether Jesus teachings were metaphoric, humourours, or meant to be taken seriously to the letter of the law and devoid of common sence should be a theme of continued throught and discussion on this thread.

 

Thank-you for your contribution to this thought, and hopefully, we will learn how to understand and apply the teachings of Jesus in a way that protects the hearer's dignity.

[suegail]

Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world therefore I think he was trying to give us an understanding of life eternal, in that kingdom of God's creation. I think he wants us to be concerned less with what we gain or lose here, but be more concerned with our spiritual existence, and also how that speaks to others in the world, what that shows to others. If we have a worldly cold attitude, what does that say to others about us?

 

As there are now there were in those times people living in poverty, people being ripped off and treated unfairly. His words were also meant to comfort them. God knows what your needs are. He did say that. God will provide. He also said that. I think he didn't want them to feel they'd been cheated in any way because life had dealt them hardships. He wanted people to know that in God's world we're all loved equally, and that there is an eternal law of God having to do with how we choose to deal with the world around us, which of course has everything to with the God given ability we all have to express love and forgivness for others.

[Moose]

But, aren't you rationalizing the scripture to suit your own self? You wont sacrifice something that is going to hurt you if someone asks out of need or wanton. Jesus said to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

No....I'm not rationalizing scripture. I would gladly hand all of my possessions off.

 

However, I live my life accordingly:

 

1. God

2. Family

3. Others

 

I'm not putting my family out before others. God doesn't want me to do that either.

 

You need to take Jesus' teachings to heart.....meaning, this lesson you are trying to take literally, should be more of a heart attitude, and not drected so much to tangible belongings.

What about a wanton lawsuit? Suppose X sues Y for $ 50 000, for the sheer wanton greed, even though the case has no merits?

 

Doesn't the Bible say, that even if the lawsuit is unjust, you should still not defend it, as it is the same as someone asking you for money?

Again, Jesus is talking about your heart attitude, and your conduct as a follower of Christ.

Thank-you for your contribution to this thought, and hopefully, we will learn how to understand and apply the teachings of Jesus in a way that protects the hearer's dignity.

What in the world does this mean exactly?

[Admiral Thrawn]

.What in the world does this mean exactly?

 

It means taking the teachings literally, letter for letter.

[Xillr8ng]

QUOTE FROM LINDYA......"Most charismatic teachers will use metaphors to demonstrate their points. The use of metaphors can ignite a student's imagination and give greater impact to a point that is being made. By their very nature, however, metaphors shouldn't be taken literally." I agree......

 

Illistrations were an effect way of reaching the heart.Jesus was very talented in his ability to communicate with all sorts of men.Men from all different walks of life.Much of what he spoke stunned the crowds.His teachings continued even after he left and it is in those letters that were written to the congregations that spelled out details of a balanced life.things like taking care of the family and how marraige was to be handled and matters amongst others in the faith.Giving our house away or working for free do not display the intentions of wisdom or common sense.Christ Jesus was trying to express many matters on a tight schedule,so to speak.Remember his ministry was only about 3 years or so.

[HokeyReligions]

The Bible, including the New Testament, is a metaphor, not factory intallation instructions.

 

And, according to scripture - even the poor and homeless have the same thing to give as do the rich and 'homefull'. "Worldly goods" are not what God/Jesus are after.

[HokeyReligions]

It means taking the teachings literally, letter for letter.

Stop applying laws of mankind with the 'laws' of God!

 

The instruction manual for your riding lawnmower are not going to work for your car. You can tear up your lawn with your car, but that's not the same as mowing the lawn, and if you take your lawnmower out on the road you are going to get a ticket because riding mowers are not for transportation. You'll get wet when it rains and someone will run into you because you don't have brake lights.

[Citizen Erased]

I myself believe that with the modern world, you cannot take the entire Bible, word for word, and apply it directly to your life. It is near impossible. However, Religion can hold society together and this is why laws are based around the Bible (obviously depending which country you are in!). I myself are not attached to any particular church but I am definetely a Christian.

 

Anyway, I'll take the being sued scenario. If a man sues you out of nowhere for 20,000 dollars then the Bible says you should pay him back double. If taken literally, this is correct. However, if you look at it from the other side, this is greed on the part of the other person is it not and so they should not have sued you in the first place for money when there was no reason... If you have done something wrong then obviously you should pay them back because it is the right thing to do.

 

The Bible can sometimes contradict itself if you take everything literally. You are meant to be kind, thoughtful and giving, but not to the point that your family who works hard ends up on the streets just because someone comes to your door and demands to have your house. Even if this was true, common sense would prevail because the world is just not like that!

 

I hope I have not offended anyone because this is a sensitive subject...

[quankanne]

Does the Bible encourage people to be poor and homeless and not take care of themselves?

 

the Bible isn't telling you to not take care of yourself, but rather saying to people "step outside your own selfish needs to love and help others as best you are able." Remember the story of the widow's mite? She could only give very little, but she offered it with all her heart. Unless you give whole-heartedly, offerings mean very little, no matter what the amount.

 

Jesus boiled the Ten Commandments down to this: Love God, and love one another. If, as suegail says, we have a worldly cold attitude, what does that say to others about us? Especially if we profess to love God? Things may be important, but they are not as important as people; when a person is in need, we shouldn't be so attatched to those "things" that we brush aside their needs.

 

as for being sued, yeah, it's hurtful, but in the end, it's just money ...

[Butterflying]

Actually, Jesus often spoke in parables. He used a lot of examples to make points. Most of which shouldn't have been taken literally for obvious reasons. I don't believe anyone who loved human kind so much that he would give his life for it would want us to be foolish. Therefore, we should use common sense when applying Jesus' teachings.

 

Today, I think Jesus was a great teacher. In fact, he lived by his own teachings. After all, he didn't put up a fight when they cruxified him. If he had, he would have lived longer. But then, he wouldn't have become such a legend because everyone would have seen that he was just like most humans, affraid to die.

 

Personally, if I had the power to turn water into wine, I'd take Jesus' teaching more seriously. Since I don't have Jesus' power, I follow common sense !!!