Disappointed again........ :-(

[a4a]

I'm in agreement with Outcast, not only here...but in her earlier post as well.

 

EVERYBODY feels better "when they're accepted and appreciated".

 

Accepting your mate for WHO HE IS can be the key to your whole situation. If he's not innately romantic....then he's not likely to be offering alot of grand romantic gestures. The sow's ear cannot be transformed....no matter how much "training" you apply.

 

Are you sure that's even something you NEED in order to be happy in your marriage? Or is there a chance that it's just something that you WANT? If it's something that you want...that's okay. It can certainly be a goal and you can continue to work toward it, but if it's not a deal-breaker it's not worthy of hard feelings or resentment.

 

The Dr. Philism, "We teach people how to treat us" doesn't mean we "train" them per se. It means that we enact boundaries regarding negative treatment that hurts us. And it means that we set an example for how we'd like to be treated by applying the Golden Rule.

 

While it's true that a better understanding of one another will enable your husband to provide you with a few more of the things you want...these should be accepted as gifts and appreciated as such.

 

When people give freely of themselves...they feel good about it in a way that is disallowed by merely fulfilling expectations. In accepting and appreciating an unexpected gift, you GIVE back that good feeling to your mate. On the flipside of the coin, when your mate can't meet your expectations he feels inadaquate.

 

Will your mate take advantage of your giving nature? ....only if you allow him to. By giving more than you can offer freely, without ANY strings attached, you're just building resentment again. In your particular case, it might be that you're giving more to the relationship than you can consider to be a "gift".

 

It is something I want, It is a deal breaker. I expect and want more than just a guy that does not beat me, or drink, or act like an ass.

 

If he treated me as well as I treated him when it comes to this exact issue he should have got this lesson long ago. I do everyday things without a care and plan out and surprise him at least once a month....... I do it because I want to, there are no expectations attached to me giving him pleasures. In no way should he feel not adequate. I thank him for the smallest gestures.

 

It would seem as though you think I sit on a throne and order him about.

She has this awesome guy, she is willing to trash him because he doesn't take the time to put effort in the relationship where she wants and needs it.

So I am picky, perhaps that is why I got such an awesome guy in the first place

 

It is a matter of him not placing importance on issues that matter to me. Thats all.

[Sassy]

Yes, OC, for awhile . . . and then it's back to nothing, right a4a? Which is the problem. It's like playing tennis with someone who refuses to hit the ball back most of the time. After awhile, you don't want to play tennis.

 

Becoming i like the analogy of that!

[hotgurl]

you know I find this thread somewhat ironic.

 

There are all these women posters that have low self confidece and accept being treated like dirt. And we always tell them be good to yourself and true to yourself and realize what a great strong person you are.

 

And here is a poster who is a smart independent woman who actaully knows her worth and 1/2 the posts are are you really trying hard enough, you should be thankful for what you have, just drop your expectations, how are you changing for him etc...

 

I think the drop your expectations thing is BS. You should once in a while take a hard look at them to see if they are too high. a4a is not just talking about romance as much as she is talking about wanting to be valued as a partner and I think she wants more emotional intimace. and she deserves it and good for her for being up front and strong enough to ask for it.

[a4a]

OMG I just busted out laughing myself at the Dr. Phil site. I had to check it out. He is not so brilliant.... I happened across the Dog or Marriage bit.

 

"the dog does not have to be put to sleep. But can be relocated to a farm."

 

The dog bit 2 kids and the couple has kids so the solution is not to put the dog to sleep but send the dog to a farm.......

 

Oh yes he must be thinking of the magical farm that exists, where everyone wants a biting dog, where all the animals roam free..... where they get all the exercise they could ever want. Yes there are farms without kids just looking for another dog that bites, that is the solution. Farmer brown would shoot the dog in 5 seconds or the dog will attack the livestock.

 

Sorry but this tid bit of advice just kills me. America listened to this and thinks their troubled dogs can simply be relocated to a farm. nice.............

[Ladyjane14]

There are all these women posters that have low self confidece and accept being treated like dirt. And we always tell them be good to yourself and true to yourself and realize what a great strong person you are.

 

But that's the lynchpin of the whole thing, Hotgirl. You can't put yourself out there, set your boundaries, give of yourself, accept and be accepted, and all that other jazz....UNLESS you are a strong person.

 

Believe me, I'm no Stepford Wife! :laugh:

[a4a]

I think the drop your expectations thing is BS. You should once in a while take a hard look at them to see if they are too high. a4a is not just talking about romance as much as she is talking about wanting to be valued as a partner and I think she wants more emotional intimace. and she deserves it and good for her for being up front and strong enough to ask for it.

 

you hit it on the head. I am busting my ass to get it without leaving him. yet my efforts are fruitless up to this point. Going out to dinner tonight with him to our usual haunt. I am worn out. Growing numb which leads to not caring.

 

You know I was not going to post this thread, but I got to thinking. If one LS reader comes to their senses to treat their SO just a little bit better, takes the time to ask what their SO needs or wants, or just puts a little more effort into their R. Well then this BS I am going through with my H is well worth it even if it all turns to shyt for me.

[Touche]

He may be ignorant as far as animals go, BUT the man has been married over 20 years and his book did help my husband and I when we went through a rough patch at the 7 year mark, so in my book he's not a total dufus.

[a4a]

I guess everyone has their favorites..... or people they think are a joke.

Glad he helped you out. Some people turn to different resources that fit their needs I guess.

[hotgurl]

I kinda think Dr. Phil is full of s*** myself he just says what you know you should be doing.

 

sorry I can't stand him

[Ladyjane14]

I kinda think Dr. Phil is full of s*** myself he just says what you know you should be doing.

 

sorry I can't stand him

 

Well, Dr. Phil's style is fairly abrasive. And I don't agree with everything he says. Like most folks, I take what I need and leave the rest.

 

But you have to admit...he's got some catchy tag phrases. My favorite is: "How's that workin' for ya?"

[a4a]

That got me to thinking what would dr. phil say about this.

 

Dr to my H: Does your wife make you happy, fulfill your needs, make you feel wanted, help and support you?

 

My H : yes very much ( i can say this because I asked my H)

 

Dr. to my H : Do you know your wife feels that you need to give her some special attention, put some time and effort into your relationship?

 

My H : ahhhh.... I guess so, I mean she says stuff like that......ahhhh.

 

 

Dr to my H: Well what the hell are you doing about it?

 

My H: well I bought her a candy bar last week when I filled up the gas tank. I don't beat her, or cheat.

 

[Touche]

Dr. Phil to H: And how's that working for ya?

 

[a4a]

Dr. Phil to H: And how's that working for ya?

 

 

My H: well I guess ok.... ahh I don't know.... ahhh....

 

(i sit in other chair and do this : )

 

 

[Touche]

No, your hubby would say: Well, it's working for ME...as far as for her...uh, I'm not so sure. It may not be working for her.

[Ladyjane14]

:lmao: :lmao: Good one, Touche.

[a4a]

No' date=' your hubby would say: Well, it's working for ME...as far as for her...uh, I'm not so sure. It may not be working for her.[/quote']

 

I honestly do not know what that means..... H states he is aware of it.

 

quite honestly I usually am in good humor and can take a jab... but not on this topic.

[Touche]

Thanks, LJ!

 

You know a4a, I think you have a good guy. You are both committed to this marriage and it will work out. I mean, I've gone through similar stages with hubby (we're together 11 years, married for 10) and it worked itself out. You're still at the beginning/early stages of marriage. A LOT of couples give up at the three year mark. Just hang in there. Have a good evening with him tonight. Try to not dwell on this and let the good feelings for each flow.

[Touche]

I honestly do not know what that means..... H states he is aware of it.

 

quite honestly I usually am in good humor and can take a jab... but not on this topic.

 

I'm sorry, A4a! I really am. It was just a joke. That the whole thing is working for HIM but not for you. Ok, maybe it was a bad joke. Sorry! You can beat me with the wooden spoon if you want.

[a4a]

quite all right Touche..... a tad on the edge right now.

 

and actually was doing some thinking.....

 

I realized I got a little miffed about the statement of giving with expectations attached to it. You know I have spent the last 12 years of my life giving, working hard, so I could get into a position to give more. I only ask this small thing..... it is quite simple to make a dinner reservation, to arrange 2 candles on a table at home and say I am cooking tonight baby!

 

How the Fvk are those high unreasonable expectations.

 

How hard is it.

 

Maybe I should auction my H off to the highest bidder on LS and use the money to get my damn camel

[JamesM]

a4a, I like your last post. And for the record, Dr Phil is not the world's best psychiatrist. He does his thing for publicity and ratings. However, I, too, have read his book on Self Matters...there was much practical advice in there.

 

Now, weighing in on this thread again. I am a guy (kinda obvious) so I will give a guy's POV. One thing that caught my attention...he needs to help around the house kind of like pissing, it just is part of what needs to be done. I have to think here is a better way of getting him to do things. My wife also thinks it is what I should do as part of my duties. I do all of the cleaning when she is not here...but I hate to say this, but what motivates me is that I am helping her. What? Yes, I "enjoy" it more if I know that she has more time alone, with me, etc. to relax when she is here. SHE thinks that if I think this way, then I don't feel obligated enough. I gave up trying to explain this to her. She doesn't think I need any praise for doing it, because no one toots the horn for her. Not totally true, but still my point is that your husband can be motivated by praise or by ...sex. What? I truly wish it would work here.

 

Another thing. Some guys are not romantics....period. However, if he was a romantic in the past, then now if he doesn't, then he is lazy. Somehow he needs to be shaken from his laziness. Positive reinforcement would be to reward him for every small thing he does even if it isn't exactly what you wanted. For instance, the meal he makes might be mac & cheese, but he did it. Make him feel great. Usually this motivates him to a better meal. If he never was, then sorry to say, I doubt he will change. You have a choice of accepting the things you love, or leaving him.

 

A bit of a question. Think back on this candidly. In the past when he did special things, do you remember your reaction? Was the gift not quite right? Was his choice of restaurant not the kind of food you wanted? Did you tell him what he did wrong or could have done better? Usually going to the same haunt becomes a safe choice due to less criticism or more of a relaxing time. For him, to go to a new restaurant may be frightening because he will have to choose a meal which may not turn out to be what he likes. These are just suggestions...I am not saying that this is what you have done.

 

Keep venting on here. It will help you to some sort of solution. Any excuse because of his past is not valid. He is an adult...he is responsible for himself. I would still advise that you think of how you can change to change him. (This truly works for women on men. I haven't learned that it works for me on her yet!)

 

Also, a candid conversation may bring some change. Maybe if you set an appointment with a counselor on a night you know he is available, then tell him that you have one may be good. If he is passive, then some "leading of the horse to the water" is necessary.

 

Good luck. As a guy who wishes he could change to "turn on his wife" sexually, I feel for you. It is difficult to live with a situation that is out of your control.

[Touche]

quite all right Touche..... a tad on the edge right now.

 

and actually was doing some thinking.....

 

I realized I got a little miffed about the statement of giving with expectations attached to it. You know I have spent the last 12 years of my life giving, working hard, so I could get into a position to give more. I only ask this small thing..... it is quite simple to make a dinner reservation, to arrange 2 candles on a table at home and say I am cooking tonight baby!

 

How the Fvk are those high unreasonable expectations.

 

How hard is it.

 

Maybe I should auction my H off to the highest bidder on LS and use the money to get my damn camel

 

 

It's ok, you have a right to be on edge. I don't think your expectations are unreasonable. Whether he's capable or willing to meet them is another story.

 

Perhaps tonight you can tell him how it would make you feel if he did those things for you. That way you're focusing on the positive. Men like to produce positive results. So maybe tell him how cherished, special, etc. doing this and this would make you feel. Be very specific.

[a4a]

Thanks John

 

No I never have never been critical of a gift except the huge ring he bought me (engagement) I could not wear it as the stone was set so high it would have been snapped right off when working with the horses, or even running around picking up supplies ect. It was so expensive I was afraid to wear it.... I made it clear that it was by far the most wonderful thing... he understood and said he thought about that as well, but wanted me to at least know that I deserved a huge ring.

 

He has never really bothered to go out of his way for me with the exception of that. Not now, not then. Although he states what he will do for me often.

 

I am going to build you your new riding arena..... its not there.

I want to go to blah blah with you.......never happens.

I would like us to go eat at your favorite restaurant........ has not happened in a year. Last time we went I arranged it all.

Just like the camel he says he will get me..... it will not happen.

 

I would be impressed if he came home with a damn balloon and tied it around his willie...... at least that would be planned and take effort.

 

 

you cannot praise him with sex, of course that is because he can get it when he wants....... so I am highly sexual, I like it so it is easy for him, never was something he craved as reward.

 

oh this is just getting too frustrating. I do not feel like going to dinner..... would rather work on these zoning laws research needed for Monday. it holds about as much excitement

[Mz. Pixie]

well I have seen some improvement... but how long will it last?

 

Sorry to bring up your unpleasant memories MZP.

 

At this point I can see why some people would turn to an EA or a PA. I would not do that, I refuse. But I can certainly see why it would be easy to fall into that situation if it was presented.

 

No big deal, A- that's exactly the reason I come here. To try and help other people going through what I went through.

 

You'd be surprised at what you'll do when you reach an emotional bottom. I'm not saying I was right to have the affair, but in reality, you've been dealing with this for three years and look how disgusted you are. Imagine dealing with it for MUCH longer. We had children, a house, and I was caretaking two dying relatives at the time. Not exactly the time to step out and get a divorce. By the time where I got to the point I'd exhausted all my efforts and had nothing left, there I was vulnerable to an affair. And I was the least likely person anyone would have ever thought would have one. Everyone thought my marriage was perfect, we were active in church and I was a Sunday School teacher.

 

The fling I had was not the first opportunity that I had to cheat. I'd had offers before. The issue was that the other times I was equipped to say no. Once I got to the point of having the A, I had no coping skills to say no.

[Mz. Pixie]

I've said this numerous times when leaving a man. "You can't even treat me with the same consideration and respect that you give your friends....."

 

WOW, Bot, did you see where I posted the same thing before??

 

I remember I would call my exh very rarely during the day. We both had busy jobs. If by chance I would call him he'd be like, "What?" or "Yeah, what's up?" really snappy like I was bothering him.

 

Look, I'm all for trying to meet each other's needs- and love languages and all of that. There is something to what LJ says about how she gave up having expectations and started praising and now she's fairly spoiled too. Nothing wrong in that.

 

People told A that she was lucky to have a relationship with a guy like her H. That's true. However, she's probably like me. I felt that I was a hell of a good wife- and everyone else thought so too. I KNEW I brought alot to the table- I was smart, I worked hard, I was sexy- and I'd kept myself up all these years and kids later- I took care of him and tried to meet his needs. I was also damn good in bed. I really felt like I asked so little for what I gave in the relationship that the fact that he wouldn't even try a bit to meet my needs was like a slap in the face to me.

 

My biggest fear was like being Otter's sister. Old and dried up with nothing to show for it but an empty marriage. That was not what I wanted.

 

You know, I like Dr. Phil sometimes. For those of you who really like him here's a thought. You know what he says, "I want my wife to be able to walk in the room and know without a doubt, that even if there are 1,000 women in that room, that she is treated better than any one of them"

 

That is what I want too. I think that is what everyone woman wants.

 

A- it could be that he really will wake up and try and make some real changes. I certainly hope for your sake that he does, and for the sake of the marriage. I'm not trying to inflame you or make you more fired up about the situation with my comments but I believe that it's helpful to hear from someone who has struggled with the same issue. Unfortunately, even me leaving him didn't wise my ex- he still stays away from home and expects his fiance to pick up the bulk of the work. Perhaps that's enough for her, but it certainly wasn't enough for me.

[Craig]

I don't settle for things in life. Nor will I settle to have a half assed relationship.

And therein, perhaps, is the source of the dilemma. Allow me to explain Fear and anger are the two most primitive emotions maybe because they are helpful in surviving a primitive world but they persist in unreasonable and irrational ways in humans today. Hey, its what is and we have to work with what we are given. Humans also are rather good at distorting their personal reality and repressing disturbing emotions.

 

I believe that your H may have an underlying fear, probably barely aware of it that was born out of his early life experiences. One way to suppress (avoid) fear is to overcompensate in other areas and from what I understand your H may fit that description.

 

Meeting success through overcompensating can be as seductive as the high provided by crack or heroin and so a positive reinforcement cycle begins. Avoid the fear by focusing effort on other areas, get good at them, get rewarded, and repeat. Possibly he is thinking that if he is so highly skilled in these other areas that the area that he associates with fear will be overlooked by a partner.

 

You come along, he falls madly in love with you and then you want something from him that he has been avoiding all these years. He is afraid, maybe he doesn’t even recognize his fear but I think it could be there. Then you start asking (demanding) that he come face to face with the things that caused him to overcompensate in the first place. You want him to venture into the unknown all the while hinting that you may leave him…WTF…he doesn’t feel secure. He has you now, if he bares his emotional soft underbelly to you what guarantee does he have that he won’t get hurt? I think he is afraid to be fully vulnerable with you and really who wouldn’t? Why should he trust someone that has threatened to leave? If he is going to get hurt and lose this relationship at least he can minimize the pain by not visiting the scary areas of his emotions that he has avoided for so many years. Besides, maybe if he overcompensates in some other area(s) you might just stop asking him to confront these areas he has so successfully avoided until now. 

 

Either I am doing something wrong or I have yet to find the real source of his problem.

Trust, complete trust is something that he may not be experiencing right now. That is your assignment right now—to gain his complete trust and only then venture into other areas that are threatening to him.

 

Getting your H to be a specific way means getting him to change, changing him means changing yourself too. You have some success with him and it’s important to constantly reinforce those successes at least in the beginning. Eventually, I think he’ll grow accustomed to the changes and actually enjoy them as they open up new and positive experiences for him. You may not be trying to change him so much as get him in touch with what is probably the real him.

 

Of course I may be completely wrong.

 

I actually want the camel to learn new communication and training techniques with another species.

It is refreshing to know there is someone else on the planet that thinks in terms of actually communicating with other species. Dr. Doolittle, I presume.