TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 My apologies. Pperhaps my language was a little strong. Equally, I wasn't out to personally attack you. I do not understand the nature of your relationship/s. If I may I'll try and show you how I responded to the letter when I first read it. But note my responses below are to things that happened to me in a LTR. Let me tell you what I got from your post when I first read it: Quote: ---------- those who break up with someone are not always monsters. you may hurt, but there is always a purpose. so for someone who just got dumped, read this for a perspective from the other side. i am not the devil. i am sorry that you are hurting; that wasn't the point, even though you don't believe that. ---------- No. I'm sure it wasn't the point. But it is a fact that I feel you should take some responsibility for. Quote: ----------- i didn't end this relationship for fun. I know you didn't see this coming, or pretended not to, but the fact is that we saw our relationship differently. it may even seem as though i left "us" a while ago, and it's true...it took me a long time to get here, to tell you what i thought. i did take the time to consider your feelings. i didn't tell you earlier because i just couldn't. i got to a point where i just couldn't do it anymore. it was simply a matter of acceptance that it was over and knowing there was no way to pretend anymore, that it was unfair to both of us. you probably remember that often i would get angry over nothing; i guess that's how i dealt with my frustration over you not seeing it, that we needed to be apart. i felt like you were trapping me, when really i was trapping myself in your feelings. i needed to do what was right, and if in that process it hurt you, i really am sorry. ----------- No I didn't see this coming. Why is that? Is it because I wasn't told that it wasn't working? Quote: ----------- but sympathy isn't a reason to remain in a relationship. i don't think you would stay in a relationship that wasn't working out for you, and i don't think you should. no one should. it wouldn't have been any better for us to go on in the distant memory of what we were and trying to drag it to where we are. things don't work that way. ----------- This is fine. To a point. Depending how long and what a couple have been through. Sometimes relationships do require some effort. It is a fact for everyone. Quote: ----------- i wish it was different. that's another reason i waited; i wanted to be sure. i waited for that moment to come that convinced me that we were meant to be with each other. the moment didn't come, and it isn't going to. ----------- What were you waiting for? What were you telling me while you were waiting? When your realisation came was I aware of what you had been going through? Quote: ----------- so while you have all these things in your head about what you did wrong; that's fine, reflect on yourself too. but don't beat yourself up. you're not ugly, you're not stupid; i obviously had reasons for wanting to be with you at one time. keep in mind that our relationship was never perfect. i may be the one who takes the brunt of it now, and i accept that, but i didn't come to this alone. neither of us was infallible; i did things and you did things to arrive at this inevitable conclusion; i just happened to be the first to have had enough of it. please understand my frustration when you repeatedly ask me why i did this. when i tell you it's not working out, you ask why. when i tell you i am simply not in love with you anymore, you ask why. i don't have answers for these things; i don't know why some things happen the way they do. some things just are. breaking up with you doesn't have to mean i cheated on you, or that i met someone else. it doesn't neceassarily mean i find you unattractive, or that i hate you. it doesn't mean i am keeping some deep, dark secret. i did not "play" you. it could mean any of these things or none of them. but don't ask unless you really want to know. seriously. only ask if you can handle it. because honestly, it doesn't matter why; for whatever reason, i don't feel this relationship is working and i want to end it. i do not want to date you anymore. i may say we'll be friends, but we all know that means one person trying to get the other person back, and i don't want that so maybe friends isn't such a good idea. ----------- It might not matter to you but it matters to the person at the time. If they have been unprepared for the breakup all manner of things will be going through the mind. Don't ask unless I really want to know what? Now you got me thinking. What about our prior commitments to each other, the situation our relationship has put has in? It was fine for you at one point, enough to change our lives. Quote: ----------- please, really, don't call me everyday, don't find reasons to talk to me or come to my house; i don't hate you but we aren't dating anymore. if i find your stuff, i will make sure you get it; it's not my top priority right now but i am not holding it hostage. you don't have to call me on my birthday, in fact, it might be awkward and ruin my day. i know you're thinking it, and thank you for your kindness. but it's probably best not to use this day as a way of initiating contact with me. i really do wish you luck, i hope you find someone who makes you happy, and who you make happy. i wish the same for me, and it would have nice if it were each other for us, but since it wasn't, we'll both move on and eventually you will realize that a fake relationship wouldn't have felt any more comforting that being broken up with. ----------- Again, I don't know the nature of the relationship but this kind of crushing realization that you've come to and are communicating now is not helpful. Wish us happy with other people? You've just s****ed everything I thought we were heading for. Aloofness and coldness is what you are feeling. You can't change this. It's happened and it happens to people all the time. But you weren't communicating while this was manifesting. Every relationship of any kind that matters to you, you owe the other person honesty and transparency. Lots of things ride on it. My words are also a response to other posts where it seems similar things have happened, not a direct attack. Just my point of you and I hope you do not take offence. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 okay, well that was hard to read, but i think i muddled through it. (ok, now it's fixed.) once again, i understand all your points. i've said that in my post. i am saying that mine are just as valid, though. not everything is cut and dried. not all relationships can be worked on. i have already said that i take the brunt of it all because i am the one who officially ended it. but i don't take responsibility for someone else's feelings. i can't help that. sadness is an inevitable part of a break-up. just because things didn't work out between two people doesn't mean one can't wish the other well with someone else...should we wish them misery? i don't want anyone to be miserable, and i certainly don't want to make someone miserable. yes, i get that a break-up is a source of misery for the other side. that isn't being disputed. Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry, just getting used to posting. No worries. Just seems that all this introspection and consideration could be better dealt with by communicating. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 But you weren't communicating while this was manifesting. how do you know what i was communicating and when? falling out of love with someone isn't a planned event. people expect all this communication, yet they don't want the truth and don't want to be lied to...and the whole time want their feelings spared. so which way is the right way? Every relationship of any kind that matters to you, you owe the other person honesty and transparency. Lots of things ride on it.. exactly. but honesty and transparency seem to called "aloofness and coldness." sure, i am detached from the feeling of those relationships that i am no longer in. isn't that natural, especially with my being the one who ended it? (and no need to apologize. it's discussion and we learn from all if it. if any of my words seem a little blunt, it's only because i still don't think you're quite getting my point, not because i don't like you or don't want you to respond.) Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry, just getting used to posting. No worries. Just seems that all this introspection and consideration could be better dealt with by communicating. right...and i do agree. but all the communication in the world doesn't change the end result when something is simply over. for example, i'm engaged. we have mostly good days and have some less-than-good days. there are times when i do think "is this definitely right for me" and inevitably i answer "yes it is." but it doesn't mean i am secretly plotting the death of my relationship just because i question it from time to time. it means in my own head, even though i know what i want, i make sure. anyone who is in a relationship they see as flawless and just goes along with it blind will probably end up being unpleasantly surprised. Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 That's OK. You're right, I don't. That is why that was a general repsonse to a general letter. There is some evidence on the boards to say that there is a choice when it comes to loving someone. I can understand that. The right way is honesty, without doubt. Because dressing up another way causes too much confusion. Hey, you can't put me through anymore pain, know what I mean. Sitting and considering this for some time isn't honesty and tranparency. That is my point. I am not saying that we should not end a relationship that we feel is wrong. I am saying that there seems to be a lot of stuff going that I wasn't being told about. And now you're aloof and cold. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I am saying that there seems to be a lot of stuff going that I wasn't being told about. And now you're aloof and cold. okay...but we weren't in a relationship together...so the way we feel should be different............because our situations were different.... this is getting weird. maybe the person who broke up with you feels differently than i do, i don't know. i am just saying that i, and many others, feel this way. and that we can't make ourselves feel something we don't, any more than you can shut off your hurt own feelings. and it's okay for both. i am sorry if it counds cold. but when there aren't any feelings left, i guess it does come out that way. Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry, please do not think I am replying to you directly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry, please do not think I am replying to you directly. oh...haha. i see. sorry for the confusion. i guess my point is you can't make anyone have any kind of feeling unless they already feel it. whether it's being aloof and cold, or pathetic and sappy, or the sense of unrequited love...it is what it is, and you can't fault anyone for how they feel. if you don't care anymore, you just don't care. sounds mean, sounds unfair, but it's the truth. it's often the biggest relief of all, to feel ambivalent after a time of struggling to keep two people happy when one wasn't. it's like you don't even get credit for trying anymore. you're not allowed to jump into a break-up without considering someone else's feelings...but you're not allowed to take the time to consider whether it's worth bringing up to the person til you're certain there is a problem...it seems the only way to win is to grow increasingly unhappier in a relationship you don't want to be in. Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I know what you're saying. You're saying that when it's dead you can't change it. It's happened. I understand that. What I was saying is that during the process of of the relationship it seems some people (and it appears evident in your letter and other posts on the board) keep problems to themselves till it's too late. I am being critical of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I know what you're saying. You're saying that when it's dead you can't change it. It's happened. I understand that. What I was saying is that during the process of of the relationship it seems some people (and it appears evident in your letter and other posts on the board) keep problems to themselves till it's too late. I am being critical of that. well in defense of that, i will say that it's pointless to ruin what might still be a good relationship until you're sure of what you want. voicing your opinion every time you have a new one (or rearranged one) wouldn't be met with any better of a reaction. it could even cause a problem over nothing. know what i mean? Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I see that as cowardice (not a personal attack mind) and selfishness. I mean, just change your mind like your clothes. While you're rearranging your opinions, I guess I'll have to find someone who wants to have an adult relationship. Oops, but now we have a mortgage to contend with. And I, for all my foolishness, have invested some emotions. Please note, my rants are all for the purpose of the boards and not an attack. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I just read this whole thread. I'm the squeaky wheel kind of person. If it ruins the relationship that I have a problem, so be it. Relationship needs ending. IME, though, as one who has to deal with issues ASAP, you just talk about the same s*** over and over until you get tired of it and then break up. I don't think one is worse than the other. On one hand, you feel like it came from out of the blue. On the other you are angry with yourself for exhaustively fruitless labors. The grass is always greener, travellight. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I see that as cowardice (not a personal attack mind) and selfishness. I mean, just change your mind like your clothes. While you're rearranging your opinions, I guess I'll have to find someone who wants to have an adult relationship. Oops, but now we have a mortgage to contend with. And I, for all my foolishness, have invested some emotions. Please note, my rants are all for the purpose of the boards and not an attack. i understand. in any case, i am not talking about marriage and mortgages. adult relationships also call for the other person to understand that things don't work out, not entirely blame the other person for taking away their happiness. people in adult relationships understand that feelings get hurt. people in adult relationships understand that things change. a change in feelings, or a simple reevaluation of a relationship isn't immature by any means. try telling someone "i've been having second thoughts about us and i am reconsidering our relationship." guess what happens? the person freaks out, or cries, or gets angry. asks why. you don't know. asks why again, you still don't know. it's a mini-break-up. then, even if the relationship were to work out regardless, there's doubt, or conflict, or unresolved feelings. i guess i would just rather be sure of what i am doing before hurting someone and possibly ruining a relationship for no reason. to me it makes perfect sense. it doesn't have to make sense to you, and it shouldn't really, because you are on the other side of the fence, so of course you feel that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I just read this whole thread. I'm the squeaky wheel kind of person. If it ruins the relationship that I have a problem, so be it. Relationship needs ending. IME, though, as one who has to deal with issues ASAP, you just talk about the same s*** over and over until you get tired of it and then break up. I don't think one is worse than the other. On one hand, you feel like it came from out of the blue. On the other you are angry with yourself for exhaustively fruitless labors. The grass is always greener, travellight. amen, blind otter. Link to post Share on other sites
TravelLight Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 We would have to classify sqeuaky wheels Actually, they don't exist. Try dealing with the SO when one of their family member dies (inevitable). Or someone gets made redundant. Or your house gets broken into etc. It happens to everyone. I can't make it clearer. Don't sit on issues. TeaCooler, your letter and subsequent post are giving off the impression that sitting on problems until you were happy they could not be resolved is OK. I am saying it is not. I have been on both sides. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 TeaCooler, your letter and subsequent post are giving off the impression that sitting on problems until you were happy they could not be resolved is OK. I am saying it is not. I have been on both sides. that wasn't what i said at all. i can't go around in circles with this anymore, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
RZA-Man Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 It's fair to say that dumping someone can be hard for the dumper, but elevating the pain of the dumper to the same level as the dumpee is plain silly and quite frankly borders on the nonsensical. Unless the dumper was in a relationship where he/she was being abused in any way, shape or form and/or found their dignity under constant assault then the onus for inflicting great emotional pain is clearly on the dumper. Don't get me wrong dumping is not fun, but it's without a doubt light years better than being dumped. Let's keep things in perspective folks. Sometimes in life we have to hurt others so we can be happy. Sure we feel bad about it, but the dumped people feel worse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TeaCooler Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 It's fair to say that dumping someone can be hard for the dumper, but elevating the pain of the dumper to the same level as the dumpee is plain silly and quite frankly borders on the nonsensical. Unless the dumper was in a relationship where he/she was being abused in any way, shape or form and/or found their dignity under constant assault then the onus for inflicting great emotional pain is clearly on the dumper. Don't get me wrong dumping is not fun, but it's without a doubt light years better than being dumped. Let's keep things in perspective folks. Sometimes in life we have to hurt others so we can be happy. Sure we feel bad about it, but the dumped people feel worse. no one ever said the pain should be elevated. Link to post Share on other sites
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