Absent father wants a relationship, just as i find out about his affairs.

[NatoPMT]

I have just returned from a family wedding back home, as usual, I found seeing family pretty traumatic.

 

My family DON’T talk, eg - when my father left my mother, I was 7, no-one told me, I remember asking where dad was as I hadnt seen him for days. Everything uncomfortable is ignored, always has been.

 

There has always been rumours (from my mum) that dad had affairs. My mum is very bitter (still) about my dad, doesn’t trust men, says they are only good for money -–she still takes £1,000 a month off him 27 years after they split up.

 

My sister idolises dad, I rarely saw him but she thinks he’s the bees knees. I always felt distant from him as I was younger than she was when he left.

 

On Friday night, I was in the pub with mum and I saw a woman who used to be a good family friend. I was excited to see her but Mum asked me not to go and talk to her. She said this woman was causing trouble in the pub and not a good idea to talk to her. I said I wasn’t bothered by that but she insisted, so I insisted I wanted to talk to this woman. Then mum said if I had to know why I shouldn’t talk to her, it was because mum just found out that during her marriage to my father, he was unfaithful to her with this close friend of hers and my father had told this story to someone mum knew.

People in my home town are mean spirited gossipers, mum always wants to think the worst of dad so I said she didn’t know it was the truth. She got a bit defensive and I shut up and left well alone.

 

This was very disconcerting because:

 

I didn’t want to believe the rumours of his infidelity

This woman was married to my dads best friend, even his best man at his wedding to mum so he betrayed his friend too

The best man committed suicide about 10 years ago, so then for my father to continue telling people he’d sluiced his wife after this man’s suicide was very upsetting for me to hear

 

IF its true – is a very immoral story to hear. No loyalty, no integrity, and so, so selfish.

 

If its not true, it means my mum is bitter and prepared to believe horrible things about female friends and her ex husband.

 

Seeing as I know the latter is the case anyway, I was prepared to go with that but be aware (as I was already) there’s reasons for her bitterness. In this instance, she was reluctant to tell me the story, which is unusual for her.

 

I posted a while ago about my fathers breakup with his girlfriend, she’s accusing him of having affairs, and I don’t believe he is. She’s potentially mentally ill and has tried to stab him recently, which is why he ended the relationship. On Saturday night I saw my father. He came to the reception and said he wouldn’t have come if I hadnt been going. That’s unusual for him, he then said he realised what was important and he wanted to see me more. Bear in mind here he was an absent father and made very little attempt to see me when I was growing up, and when I call him he ends the conversation fairly quickly.

 

He said, in conversation, he was worried that everyone believed his recent ex-gf that he was a ‘sha/gger’ and that he was worried about how people saw him. He then said he didn’t care if he never had sex again as women were such trouble. He THEN said it was his age talking, when he was in his 20’s and 30’s he was in every nightclub and making the most of it. I was born when he was 27 and he left mum when he was 35.

 

So, I finally know that he was unfaithful, the story about the best friend’s wife could well be true, my mum is bitter for a good reason – not the best way to feel 27 years after the fact though. He is now alone for the first time in 40 years and his relationship with his recent gf is over. He now feels he wants to see me more and is finished with women. I feel that after years of putting his women ahead of me, he’s now ‘free’ and wants to have a better relationship with me. I don’t know how to feel. I am not at the same place emotionally as him and cant turn on this sudden need to be close, its what I have always wanted and feel that its never been there so I have almost disassociated myself from attempting to be close to him, it feels uncomfortable to have emotional conversations with him.

 

All my life I have wanted to be wanted by him, and now I don’t know how to behave. I do know I don’t want to get to my 60’s and realise I don’t have close relationships with my family, but I feel too much is ingrained now and I currently don’t want to talk through emotional issues with him.

 

He met my bf for the first time on Sat night, he didn’t ask my bf any questions to get to know him – dad just talked. I felt this illustrates his selfishness. Then my bf told me dad said I was a ‘one-off’ and there was ‘no-one quite as different’ as me – I was unconventional. First compliment I have ever had off him.

 

I feel weirded out by the whole thing, I am not good with emotional issues due to the distance between us all when I was growing up. Its what I have always wanted, but then I found out something horrific the same weekend. I havent told my sister about the affair yet but I will.

 

I know what I will probably do. I will not mention anything about this to my dad. I will make more of an effort to stay in touch with him. I will ignore what he’s done and my mother will continue to be obstructive when I want to see dad so she will feel as though I am betraying her. I won’t talk to them about it because it’s not what we do, but I will continue in my endeavours to ensure that I don’t treat my future family this way. I feel angry that I have carried guilt around with me all my life from this lack of closeness, I feel angry that when it suits him its now going to be like the Waltons. I feel angry that I now cant ignore his affairs and have a relationship with him because my mum wont let me and makes me feel guilty for seeing him, I feel angry that when I do see her over him, my sister tells me I am wrong and mum doesn’t deserve all my attention. I cannot win, they all know that I am a people pleaser and they can manipulate me into doing what they see is right. I am being pulled in all directions. Dad is the last to start pulling, but hes REALLY pulling now and I have some resistance to all of them.

 

i hope MM & MW having affairs read this and see how much they have to lose in addition to their marriage, they will regret their actions. Their children will never truly trust them. My sister is yet to learn of this, she will be devastated.

 

On the up side, I feel now that I understand the dynamics of my family become dysfunctional and the path that’s lead me here, and how this leads to regrets. I have the answers I need and I can move on emotionally with a cleaner slate, but I still don’t understand how to heal rifts and I know at least that if the relationship is more honest in the first place, then I could heal future rifts with my family as it will have a better foundation.

[sami]

I'm sorry to read this. I'm sure it's so devastating.

[NatoPMT]

Thanks Sami - much appreciated

[Curmudgeon]

what occurred between your mother and your father happened long ago. None of you are the same people now that you were then.

 

You can't take back or make up[ for the years that have passed but if your father's sincere about wanting to have a relationship with you, both of you can start from now and move forward with it.

 

You're also under no obligation to have a relationship with a man you hardly know, related or not. You might just want to take it slow and easy and see if you even like him at all.

 

Remember, there are three sides to every divorce, his, hers and the truth, which usually lies somewhere in the middle.

[blind_otter]

Agree with cur.

 

I had to reconcile with my mother, who was physically and emotionally abusive when I was growing up. I figure that as she is now, I can have a relationship with her. So I deal with her as she is now. does that mean I've forgiven her completely for the past? No. But I recognize that she is a different person now, as I am.

 

You can't actively do much other than accept it. It takes time to re-build, and if he is sincere about making amends, that is his responsibility to do. And it's your choice whether you want to accept it. But you seem to have your head together, so there ya go.

[NatoPMT]

Hi Curmugeon

 

None of you are the same people now that you were then.

 

No, i agree, but my mum is even more bitter than she ever was, my father has seen 'the light' but is still just as selfish - i dont think they are that different. IF its true hes told someone about the affair with his Best Man's wife - like i said, i am disgusted. This man committed suicide - my father may be THAT disrespectful. He then practically admitted he was unfaithful when i was just a child. WHY tell me that now? I let the comment pass and didnt show id seen what he meant.

 

You can't take back or make up[ for the years that have passed but if your father's sincere about wanting to have a relationship with you, both of you can start from now and move forward with it.

 

I could move on with a relationship with him, but every time i go home, i hear more of this and find out more of the same and its hard. The more i talk to them, the more they tell me about their lives, the more i dont want to know.

 

I am going through that process now where the painful unravelling happens. When you find out what you need to know to put the pieces together to make peace with how you are, and why you are. I was blissfully unaware when i was younger, but extremely volatile with an unexplainable anger in me. Now i am more peaceful, but i am getting the answers i needed 15 years ago. But now its suits them, i hear things that are stopping me liking the people i should love.

 

Hi Bo

 

I am always amazed at how strong you are otter. I always value your input. My mother was abusive too, but this is the first time i have admitted it., She was extremely controlling, as i said she emotionally bullied me into not seeing my dad, she controlled me totally and still is to an extent. She pushed me down the stairs once and another time she punched me in the stomach,when i was 5 or 6 she hit me with a riding crop to name a few. However, unlike you i suspect, the physical wasnt systematic but the emotional was. I felt id put it behind me after a series of dreams i had when i went travelling last year, after she'd humiliated me in front of my bf i felt id had enough. I felt i was now stronger than to let this shape my behaviour and i closed the door on it. So can i get past it if she is still the same person? I have kept her at arms length and shes improved somewhat, i caught her going through my handbag at the weekend though. I feel i let her do it because i didnt stand up to her. Now i am not allowing her to do it, shes certainly being more reasonable with me. BUT i feel such guilt when she makes these comments and i dont know where thats coming from. I havent unravelled that much yet.

 

Bo, does your mother treat you how you want to be treated now? And what happens if she doesnt? Have you spoken to her about what she did?

 

There's one last thing that i havent said about. Every few years i worry about the fact i remember being frightened of being alone with dad. I remember being scared of him but i dont remember if there was any reason. On Saturday night he said something really odd. He said 'I havent molested you' - it was in a context of a conversation, but its starting to play on my mind. I don't think he has and i would remember wouldnt i?

[blind_otter]

 

Bo, does your mother treat you how you want to be treated now? And what happens if she doesnt? Have you spoken to her about what she did?

 

There's one last thing that i havent said about. Every few years i worry about the fact i remember being frightened of being alone with dad. I remember being scared of him but i dont remember if there was any reason. On Saturday night he said something really odd. He said 'I havent molested you' - it was in a context of a conversation, but its starting to play on my mind. I don't think he has and i would remember wouldnt i?

 

Thanks, BB -- I always read your posts when I see your name, too.

 

I have a feeling that your mother probably used you as a vent for her frustration with her H. Mine did, for myriad reasons. On the one hand she viewed me as a very inappropriately aged confidant who she talked about my Dad with. I knew details of their private relationship way too early. As a result I feel guilty very often when others are angry because it's a catch 22. You have a right to your feelings, but you understand why they are upset. Being conditioned like that as a child makes you bizarrely aware of the emotional state of others -- you learn it to survive.

 

I also had a period of wondering if my Dad molested me. I remember it was my swimming teacher, though. I think I had those thoughts because of the details my mother shared about her relationship (physical and emotional) with my Dad -- it was mentally incestuous, at least to me. A child should not know those things about their parents. When they are old enough to handle it, sure, but not pre-pubescent kids.

 

Now, my mother is a good person to me. It took a lot, though. She stopped speaking to me when I went away to college (even though I lived in the same town??!!) and I decided to show her what she had taught me. She thought she could cow me into submission again, but I showed her plainly that I was above all else HER daughter. She taught me to be strong for myself, at least, and I didn't give in. We didn't speak for a year.

 

After all that I don't know what happened but she started seeing a therapists and got on mood stablizers. I think for me, my life fell apart so dramatically and it was so clear when (after my 2nd rape) -- and my mom finally realized on her own after years of confusion and frustration, that part of my problem was directly due to the way she raised me.

 

A couple of years ago she apologized to me, in a general way. Sorta like, "I'm sorry because I know that how I treated you made it difficult for you to find your footing"....ya know? It helped that she acknowledged it, at least.

 

I confronted her, and my Dad. I didn't accuse, or say specifics. I just said, this is how I felt, growing up...(a) (b) ©. Structured, ya know? So it wasn't about what they did to me, it was about how I felt. I just thought they should know. Because I phrased it the way I did my Dad was really crushed, some tears escaped (and he is definately NOT a cry guy).

 

I've come to terms with the fact that my parents were messed up, before I was even IN the picture, and like the love relationships of my adulthood, our issues came more from them wrestling with themselves. I see now that every time my Mother hit me, she was re-living her own childhood abuse. She was punishing herself as much as me. She is a sad woman. I feel deeply for her because she was so lost that she actedout against a tiny child.

 

It took a lot of effort and we are still quite chilly with one another. No hugs or kisses, or much body contact at all. I figure that it took 26 years to get to this point, so it'll probably take another 20. I get depressed and reflective, which is why I responded to your post -- I could have written parts of it myself! But I have to sit with my emotions now. Let myself feel them and accept them. It's easier than pushing everything away, actually.

 

Thanks for letting me share.

[NatoPMT]

I have a feeling that your mother probably used you as a vent for her frustration with her H. Mine did, for myriad reasons. On the one hand she viewed me as a very inappropriately aged confidant who she talked about my Dad with. I knew details of their private relationship way too early. As a result I feel guilty very often when others are angry because it's a catch 22. You have a right to your feelings, but you understand why they are upset. Being conditioned like that as a child makes you bizarrely aware of the emotional state of others -- you learn it to survive.

 

I think you have a number of points there absolutely right. I wasn’t a confident as they never told me anything, but I was most definitely used in this game she played as ‘her’ daughter, while my sister was ‘dad’s daughter’. I was always told how awful my dad and all men were and how lucky I was to have her to look out for me but it was used to control my feelings about dad and my independance, she had to feel I was ‘hers’. That has made me acutely aware of her feelings and how I could never hurt her feelings - an dthe consequences of hurting her feelings. I rebelled seriously later on, the process of removing myself from her in my mid/late teens was the most violent period. She knew she was losing her hold over me. She didn’t need to use that much violence when I was little as it didn’t take much to control me, it was only when I resisted.

 

You have been forced to look at yourself, I used to refuse to look at the causes of my feelings – it feels a lot less confusing when you are there to say what I am feeling is normal.

 

I also had a period of wondering if my Dad molested me. I remember it was my swimming teacher, though. I think I had those thoughts because of the details my mother shared about her relationship (physical and emotional) with my Dad -- it was mentally incestuous, at least to me. A child should not know those things about their parents. When they are old enough to handle it, sure, but not pre-pubescent kids.

 

That’s a relief it may be reaction to the circumstances – I am sorry it was a reality for you. If you don’t mind me asking, how old were you when this happened with your teacher? Did you remember this recently or in adulthood? Has your counselling been instrumental in realising these insights? I don’t feel that my mother told me anything mentally incestuous about her relationship with dad but I cant shake this feeling of unease about it. I am more comfortable to think that my causes have a similar basis to yours, but do you think you have thought your dad may have abused you if you hadnt been abused?

 

She thought she could cow me into submission again, but I showed her plainly that I was above all else HER daughter. She taught me to be strong for myself, at least, and I didn't give in. We didn't speak for a year.

 

Your story is such a stark warning, you are the child and you are had to train your own mother how to behave properly. It makes me feel ill to think of the people who are behaving this way all over the world because noone has ever shown them any different, and the cycle goes on and on. You’ve had to be broken yourself to break that cycle. Did she tell you that shed suffered as a child? What age were you when she told you?

 

A couple of years ago she apologized to me, in a general way. Sorta like, "I'm sorry because I know that how I treated you made it difficult for you to find your footing"....ya know? It helped that she acknowledged it, at least.

 

I’m glad that she’s given you something back. I would be mortified if my mum or dad tried to speak with me about this. Why do you think that you are able to have a conversation like that with her? Is it because the fact she over-confided in you so even if it was inappropriate and caused you problems, it did serve some positive purpose?

 

I get depressed and reflective, which is why I responded to your post -- I could have written parts of it myself! But I have to sit with my emotions now. Let myself feel them and accept them. It's easier than pushing everything away, actually

 

You push things away and they resurface in other manifestations. Ive understood the truth of that in retrospect – its hard to understand with clarity when its actually happening. Thanks for letting me share too. I think just posting here acknowledges what is suppressed most of the time enough to prevent serious repercussions for me.

 

As I said in my first post, I know what I will do, I will do as dad wishes in contacting him more, I will tell my sister about the affairs. At least now a few posts later I feel less like I am being forced and more like it’s the right thing to do. I don’t want to end up like them, which is what I fear if I don’t deal with my frustration. I need to take your lead in setting boundaries for my mum, she either likes me seeing dad, and if she can’t, I wont let her control me over it.

[Curmudgeon]

Since your mother is bitter, I wonder if he opined that she'd told you he molested you and was trying to make sure you knew he didn't.

 

I think the bottom line is that you're an adult and as such, you don't have to be around people you're not comfortable with, whether or not they're related. That's one of the nice things about adulthood.

 

My wife hasn't seen her mother in about five years and she lives just 20 minutes away. The woman is just plain nasty. Why subject yourself to someone like that?

[blind_otter]

Since your mother is bitter, I wonder if he opined that she'd told you he molested you and was trying to make sure you knew he didn't.

 

I think the bottom line is that you're an adult and as such, you don't have to be around people you're not comfortable with, whether or not they're related. That's one of the nice things about adulthood.

 

My wife hasn't seen her mother in about five years and she lives just 20 minutes away. The woman is just plain nasty. Why subject yourself to someone like that?

 

I still talk to my mother because I understand that she is a sad, broken woman who doesn't really know how to express love because she never really received it herself. I have compassion. Not to say your wife doesn't, it's just a huge thing for me. Maybe it's my revenge.

[NatoPMT]

Not sure my dad realises how bitter she is, i have never told him that shes so anti-him. He knows that she bullys me, last christmas she made my bf some breakfast and said to him 'dont give that bitch any' and my sister told him about it. At that point i decided never to go home again. With the passage of time the desire to be a 'normal' family makes you forget...

 

However Curm, you may have hit on something there, maybe hes going through the process of working out why i have always been distant from him and elminating reasons - he may have thought he made an effort without realising he had to REALLY make an effort to get past my mothers emotional blackmail. I did used to want him to rescue me and felt that his women were more important to him. Perfectly illustrates the problem that lack of communication causes. I think one thing, every other family member thinks their own.

 

Every time i go home, i want to cut ties. The longer i spend away from home, the more i romanticise it and think it can be ok. Then i go home and come back to earth with a painful bump. I think i need to go through the process a few more times. At this moment I have a strong pull to both cutting ties AND making amends. I think Bo's case is much more extreme and warranted a definite course of action, whereas if i tried to tackle this i would be told that i was making a fuss about nothing and i was ungrateful and dont i know how much has been done for me. Which could be true. i couldnt bring up specific events, so i would have to back down and my opportunity would be gone.

 

I need some more time before i see either of them again. I am hoping my sister can give me some perspective on this too but i am avoiding calling her

 

I understand that she is a sad, broken woman who doesn't really know how to express love because she never really received it herself.

 

that could be a description of my mother. my revenge would be the opposite, it would be to never see her again. that would be the most extreme thing i could do to her or dad. i dont think they deserve that, i guess this is my problem with them, not their problem with me anymore. i have to try to get over this.