Question for the OW on this forum

[silktricks]

Is there any point to asking a question of people who you are not in the same situation as - hence asking it, then debating their answers? No, there isn't, and I'm sorry if it seems that I'm debating the answers.

 

So, they start to resent the W believing she is obstacle number one to complete happiness with the MM.

 

OK, I can understand that, but why then do ex-OW still have such apparent anger?

 

From the W's point of view I'm sure this makes no sense, and just adds to the image of OW being young, stupid, naive girls who are handing out sex on a platter.

 

But I've NEVER felt that way about OW. Those comments have come from other OW - SAYING that I (or other wives) felt that way.

 

there are emotional triggers that make them feel so strongly towards the MM - the W is an obstacle and that, combined with his derogatory comments on his wife, help the OW feel at ease to assume a negative opinion.

 

I'm not saying it's right - I'm answering your question.

I appreciate that. I've wished that I had come across LS when my H first told me about the A. I believe that understanding and forgiveness would have come sooner. So you're basically saying that the feeling the OW has about the W of their MM carries over onto other W's - just because?? That makes as much sense as a W being p*ssed off at anyone who has ever been an OW. which is none.

 

It's ONLY been the infidelity forums and the fact that I haven't been shot down in flames for being curious and honest that I've learnt to have compassion for all BS's who seem to share an equal interest in understanding the OW's perspective. We don't always agree - but over time, there seems to be a slow but sure realisation that, due to the same man, we have knowledge on betrayal, lies, deception and heart ache. The difference is which end of the stick we were on.

 

yup - and whether or not you are working at fixing problems, or just complaining about the fact they exist.

[scarletletter]

I have actually told MM not to talk badly about his spouse in front of me. Mainly because at some point down the road if I am ever a stepmother to his children, I do not want to be able to make my own opinion of their mother. I don't want someone brainwashing me about someone that I do not know. I know that their marriage life is in shambles and who knows, it is probably some his fault as well as hers. If you listen to his side, its all her fault. I am mature and intelligent enough to know that she cannot be all that bad. She is a good mother to his children and I suspect that they have just grown over the years and too much damage has been done to repair the relationship. They are good people with real problems. I never would want to have his children hear me talking negative about their mother. That is not the way I want to be.

[Sami_D]

But see, there you go making assumptions again. This isn't your case - according to you, you are 43. You are not young and impressionable. Well, neither was the OW in my case. She was 48. The only accurate thing you've said about my case is that he lied - which he did. But he lied to both of us, not just her, not just me.

 

Why do you so badly want me to believe that he is still lying to me? He's not.

 

Sorry, but I wasn't meaning to talk to you directly. I don't badly want to believe anything about you and I can't recall what your story is, how old any of the protagonists are, or anything about it.

 

I was trying to comment on 'the general' posts on this forum.. .which are from 20-somethings involved with older men. I have no idea whether your husband is lying to you. Maybe YOU are one of the ones who isn't being lied to. And maybe I am too. Who the hell knows..?

 

I'm not clinging to anything, however... so, if you're not too, then great. But how about stopping accusing me too..?

[OzGirl]

 

OK, I can understand that, but why then do ex-OW still have such apparent anger?

 

I don't have anger at the W. I find it frustrating sometimes to hear them giving their H's second chances and think if you saw and heard how he did this to you, then yes, walking away would be easier than the risk of it happening again. It's out of genuine care for fellow women, as a whole, whether they be W's or OW that I think we ALL deserve better, and that includes NO risk being taken on losing us by the men we deem fortunate to have us. Even reading your posts, I feel for you. On one hand you're saying it's all okay now, on the other, you're clearly still dealing with it, ie, this thread. I come back to these forums hoping to hear good stories, yet, often, it's only the healing process we bare witness to. If it really is all okay, they wouldn't be here. And yes, that includes me. I feel I'm getting closer to complete indifference each time I come on this site. One day, hopefully, I'll stop posting, and you'll know it's because I don't need to. I wish that for everyone, including you.

 

I appreciate that. I've wished that I had come across LS when my H first told me about the A. I believe that understanding and forgiveness would have come sooner. So you're basically saying that the feeling the OW has about the W of their MM carries over onto other W's - just because?? That makes as much sense as a W being p*ssed off at anyone who has ever been an OW. which is none.

 

 

I believe the MM tells the OW bad things about his W to justify the affair. His marital status is a threat to him - because it's assumed (believe it or not) that she won't partake in an affair unless the threat is reduced and at a minimum. Ironic, I know. It's an admittance on the MM's part that this is not good enough for the OW. But, to the OW, when she hears that the W is distant, they don't have sex, they don't talk, they're just like passing ships in the night, etc, it makes the OW think it's purely logistical and it denotes the emotional attachment of the MM to the W.

 

These men know that most women need to feel loved in order to hand over sex. They're also masters at playing on that. Again, it's ironic. All it proves is the women in his life, most predominantly, his W, have taught him that women need to FEEL loved to stay interested. If there was no love in his marriage as he claimed, he would probably not be so well-refined at playing that card.

 

It is, I would imagine, hard to read anyone saying something general or specific about their current or ex MM and then wonder if that ever, or still does, apply to your H. If yours isn't lying to you anymore, that's great. But obviously, that in itself is not enough relief for you from this situation.

 

There's no quick fix or easy process for anyone in this. I honestly believe the MM who starts it gets out of it the lightest. The lack of care to instigate it is a character trait that remains in the wake of it. It makes all OW wonder if he's academy award winning routine on the W after he gets found out is the same played on her when it all started. I think they want the man to suffer and have no one, and resent the W for forgiving him. It appears to the OW like you're giving him the instructions on how to do it and get away with it. I know it's probably not the case. You're original question of why OW feel like they do - they expect more from the W.

 

It's almost offensive, isn't it? But then, so is the fact that many MM only feel guilty when they get caught.

 

There's just no point to an affair. It's an exercise done in vain, and there is never a happy outcome. It's the W who leads the way into a better future, I would guess. What a load to carry.

[Sami_D]

Is there any point to asking a question of people who you are not in the same situation as - hence asking it, then debating their answers? No, there isn't, and I'm sorry if it seems that I'm debating the answers.

 

So, they start to resent the W believing she is obstacle number one to complete happiness with the MM.

 

OK, I can understand that, but why then do ex-OW still have such apparent anger?

 

From the W's point of view I'm sure this makes no sense, and just adds to the image of OW being young, stupid, naive girls who are handing out sex on a platter.

 

But I've NEVER felt that way about OW. Those comments have come from other OW - SAYING that I (or other wives) felt that way.

 

there are emotional triggers that make them feel so strongly towards the MM - the W is an obstacle and that, combined with his derogatory comments on his wife, help the OW feel at ease to assume a negative opinion.

 

I'm not saying it's right - I'm answering your question.

I appreciate that. I've wished that I had come across LS when my H first told me about the A. I believe that understanding and forgiveness would have come sooner. So you're basically saying that the feeling the OW has about the W of their MM carries over onto other W's - just because?? That makes as much sense as a W being p*ssed off at anyone who has ever been an OW. which is none.

 

It's ONLY been the infidelity forums and the fact that I haven't been shot down in flames for being curious and honest that I've learnt to have compassion for all BS's who seem to share an equal interest in understanding the OW's perspective. We don't always agree - but over time, there seems to be a slow but sure realisation that, due to the same man, we have knowledge on betrayal, lies, deception and heart ache. The difference is which end of the stick we were on.

 

yup - and whether or not you are working at fixing problems, or just complaining about the fact they exist.

 

This kind of post is really hard to follow... takes all the points out of context, and we dont't know who said them unless we scroll.

 

Taking sentences out of context is ok now and again... but an entire post full of this..? hard to read.

[Sami_D]

I have actually told MM not to talk badly about his spouse in front of me. Mainly because at some point down the road if I am ever a stepmother to his children, I do not want to be able to make my own opinion of their mother. I don't want someone brainwashing me about someone that I do not know. I know that their marriage life is in shambles and who knows, it is probably some his fault as well as hers. If you listen to his side, its all her fault. I am mature and intelligent enough to know that she cannot be all that bad. She is a good mother to his children and I suspect that they have just grown over the years and too much damage has been done to repair the relationship. They are good people with real problems. I never would want to have his children hear me talking negative about their mother. That is not the way I want to be.

 

Hey scarlet.. .I doubt anyone here will acknowledge this post of yours.. I've read 2 or 3 today from you that have been skipped over by those more interested in putting their own story or pov...

 

This is more or less how I feel too about MM and his children. I am fairly sure that I will be stepmother to his kids at some point... and yes, I do take that seriously. But according to this board we should only be arguing about the size of the rings our cheating Mm gave us last week.

 

NOT all of us are idiots who can't see beyond that. I'm worrying about my r with his children. And I would never want to start up some shhhhstrom about her with him. NO ... that's never been an issue at all with us. Why would it be..?

[scarletletter]

I'll tell you why sami, because none of the BS's in here want to believe that we are actually caring, sensitive human beings. We are not all 25 year olds looking to prove themselves sexually with a MM. The relationship that I have is very serious and very real. I am totally committed to being a good person to him and his children. No one in here wants to know that. They just want to know that we are all trashy whores that steal their husbands....WHATEVER!!

[OzGirl]

I thought I was going to be stepmother, too. He even introduced me to his teenage kids, because he felt I was a more open minded 'counsel' to them than his W.

 

EVEN with that happening - me thinking it was not just him, but his kids who disliked the W and all 3 kids and MM embraced me, it was only a matter of time before it would be the 'right time' to join forces.

 

The reason he didn't was always changing, but always "forgivable" from my stance - the kids had school... now they have university.... the list goes on, but it was "for the kids" that he stayed.

 

Apparantly, a lot of MM have an OW would lives out of town - it's like one of the unwritten rules to ensuring you reduce the chances of being caught. Can't run into each other at local places, etc.

 

If he lived in the same area as me, these logistics regarding his kids would have made no difference. I could have moved to his town, but it wasn't possible due to distance from work, etc.

 

The thing I don't understand, and am yet to really see an indisputably convincing argument from any OW, is that for you to think you are going to be stepmother one day - then he's given you reason to believe it - I guess it's the eventually-I'm-going-to-leave-my-W line of thinking. But, if his kids matter so much, and if you are a 'better' person than the W for all your kind and caring and lovable traits, then why are they not worth exposing his kids to on a permanent basis?

 

I believe it's because men see women in two basic cateogories - those who keep an home, raise children, and look after the ensurance his genes are alive to reproduce one day. Then there are women who satisfy their egos, make them feel like gods, and satisfy their primitive urges. For some men, that's one and the same woman. For others, it's not. For MM, maybe their wives go from the latter to the former through baring children. Who knows.

 

This is just my humble opinion. It's not a statement about anyone's individual case. But it's not just an opinion formed by my experience. It's from reading copious quantities of books on the subject, listening to what people here have to say, and looking for common denominators, and I accept I'm in a minority when I post my thoughts a lot of the time.

[whats wrong with me]

I'll tell you why sami, because none of the BS's in here want to believe that we are actually caring, sensitive human beings. We are not all 25 year olds looking to prove themselves sexually with a MM. The relationship that I have is very serious and very real. I am totally committed to being a good person to him and his children. No one in here wants to know that. They just want to know that we are all trashy whores that steal their husbands....WHATEVER!!

 

Not true. I believe my H is a trashy whore and I really feel sorry for any women that get involved w/ him.

[mopar crazy]

I'll tell you why sami, because none of the BS's in here want to believe that we are actually caring, sensitive human beings. We are not all 25 year olds looking to prove themselves sexually with a MM. The relationship that I have is very serious and very real. I am totally committed to being a good person to him and his children. No one in here wants to know that. They just want to know that we are all trashy whores that steal their husbands....WHATEVER!!

I can't say your a trashy whore b/c I don't know you so that would be pretty judgemental. I have never really thought any of the OW here are trashy whores. On the other hand I know my H's exOW was a trashy, skanky, slut. I wont go into details. All I know is that I know the exOW personally and I know what she is like.

[newbby]

there have been some great responses on this thread,

thanks silk tricks for bringing it up also, i think it is important.

i can only say, the responses i think you found negative, were on your "letter to the ow" thread. in this case, i think the responses were to be expected.

it is not anger at bw for being the wife or the "winner", but anger that the mm got away with lying, came out of it smelling of roses, whilst the main proportion of the blame is dumped on the ow.

the ow has one experience of who your h is, and you have another. of course there are individual cases, but the majority of ow experiences are the same. you can read 10 different stories in this forum, and realise they are essentially the same story

the ow has experienced the determination of the mm, to conquer her, in the form of outrageous lies. over time and facing the harsh reality of the situation she comes to realise the extent of these lies, and she sees him as the most extreme of manipulators. there comes a point, when the ow senses that were the a to be discovered, the mm who has so deftly absolved himself of responsibility thus far, will create a story, that saves his own reputation and makes her the villain.

his story of course will be listened to. the ow rarely discloses her own, even to her closest friends, because she feels ashamed she fell for such an act. she also suspects quite strongly that no matter what she says, societys ingrained opinion of ow, will be pretty firmly conditioned into the minds of everyone she knows.

she has no voice, and she knows it. the anger at the mm for this is surely completely understandable. she is not angry at the wife for winning him, she is angry at the wife for believing him and when you post about it in this forum, that is the reaction you will get. when a bw speaks of her h as a contrite and vulnerable individual who was manipulated by a conniving, theiving woman, the ow will of course percieve this ow as one who has been unfairly villified, just as she or others she has spoken to have been. it is her experience that the mm is a liar, and will say anything first to get sex, then to absolve himself of responsibility and then to keep his good husband image intact.

a long history of this acceptance and belief of the mms version of events, has painted this extremely unfair portrait of all ow. this is what angers her.

[silktricks]

Truly, I did get a lot of negative response from the letter to the ow that I posted. I also expected that, so it didn't surprise me. What did surprise me was the responses that at least I perceived to be negative around things that I said outside of that thread.

 

Now, I want to say somethings. They really don't pertain to this thread at all, but as it's my thread, I guess I can go ahead and do it.

 

My husband from the first moment that he told me about the A, never villified the ow. He said from the first that he had lied to her repeatedly and constantly. Also, that he had lied to me repeatedly and constantly. He was, to be honest, by the time he told me, completely ashamed of what he did to me, but not (at least apparently) of what he did to her - that has actually only come within the last few months. Mostly, he was afraid. Although it makes most of the ow on this forum uncomfortable - she was a wacko.

 

Although it is obvious that many of the women (ow) on this forum have been badly treated, it seems that most of you want to view ALL ow's as badly treated innocent victims. There is not a group on the face of the earth that the word ALL can apply to. Maybe each and every one of you is as innocent as you want to believe. The OW in my case was not. Most of the information that I have received about what the OW did to attract and entrap my H I received from information OUTSIDE of my H. Independent 3rd party, non-involved individuals.

 

I've attempted to understand the level of anger displayed towards the wives - who have done nothing to the ow in most cases, other than decide that their marriages are worth another try. We have chosen to forgive our husbands. Part of forgiveness includes a renewal of trust - and believe me, that renewal is difficult.

 

The ow on this forum seem to deeply resent that renewal of trust between the marriage partners. Yet, if the mm left his w to be with the ow, they would also need to move toward a renewal of trust. The mm has been with two women. If he now chooses the ow, the ow would have basically the same issues to deal with that the wife has to deal with. Namely the fact that he could lie so easily.

 

There isn't a person anywhere that hasn't made some truly disastrous mistakes. God knows I have. I don't pretend to judge you for your mistakes, I don't pretend to assume what actions you make are mistakes and what are not. I know that some of the most god-awful mistakes I've made I thought at the time that they were not mistakes. The fact that many of the ow on this forum DO presume to judge me and other wives of our presumed mistakes gets me. How can you possibly sit in judgement on a situation about which you know nothing? (and don't assume you know our situation, just because you know a mm)

 

Each person can talk about their own issues, their own pain, their own experiences. But what has happened on this forum is that many of the ow talk about their pain at a universal level. I really haven't seen many of the wives do that. Most of the BS talk only about their own experiences, and stress the fact that each is different. The OW however react to the "universal" mm -- when we all know that there is no such thing. Each individual is unique. Each person has a different reason or excuse for their actions and reactions.

[newbby]

My husband from the first moment that he told me about the A, never villified the ow. He said from the first that he had lied to her repeatedly and constantly. Also, that he had lied to me repeatedly and constantly. He was, to be honest, by the time he told me, completely ashamed of what he did to me, but not (at least apparently) of what he did to her - that has actually only come within the last few months.

and yet this is the acknowledgement of this that you expressed

I’m sure you convinced yourself that he loved you, just as I’m sure that he allowed you to believe that he loved you.

allowed to believe, not outright lied. but you are missing the point, i was explaining a reason that the ow could be angry, although to be very honest, i dont really think i have seen any anger expressed by ow, except in retaliation. i was explaining the ows position, in the hope you would see where the anger might come from, your original question.

Maybe each and every one of you is as innocent as you want to believe.

you see here, your true feelings surface yet again. you wonder why you experience opposition yet are blind to the fact that your words are showing your actual opinion of ow.

also a counter will always be as extreme as the original accusation. it is nothing to do with who is innocent or not, but with trying to redress the proportion of responsibility the ow is expected to take on.

I've attempted to understand the level of anger displayed towards the wives - who have done nothing to the ow in most cases, other than decide that their marriages are worth another try.

you dont need to attempt anything, it has been explained to you. all you need to do is listen.

We have chosen to forgive our husbands. Part of forgiveness includes a renewal of trust - and believe me, that renewal is difficult.

yes of course. it must be extremely difficult. part of it has to involve at some point, an attempt to blind trust him and take him on his word, because the other extreme is too easy to fall into, perhaps?

here:

Mostly, he was afraid. Although it makes most of the ow on this forum uncomfortable - she was a wacko.

and here

The ow on this forum seem to deeply resent that renewal of trust between the marriage partners.

you seem to be seeing what you expect to see or want to see. it doesnt make ow uncomfortable that another ow was a whacko. the picture you gave of your h's ow was taken with a pinch of salt because of the warped perspective evident in your letter.

The fact that many of the ow on this forum DO presume to judge me and other wives of our presumed mistakes gets me. How can you possibly sit in judgement on a situation about which you know nothing? (and don't assume you know our situation, just because you know a mm)

i thought i explained this. the ow gets angry in general about the way she is always depicted and the reason for this, seems to be the mms version of events to his wife. she is angry that the mm decieves her, breaks her heart and then goes home to a forgiving wife who clearly does not know the true story. it isnt the wifes fault, and the anger is misdirected in these cases.

 

there are also probably some ow who do see the wife as the reason for her unhappiness, and im not trying to deny that this exists at all. i dont think there are many ow in here who think this way though, really very very few.

Each person can talk about their own issues, their own pain, their own experiences. But what has happened on this forum is that many of the ow talk about their pain at a universal level.

i really dont believe that is true. there are alot more of these types of topics on the ow forum, or even in other forums about the ow forum, so the situation will be spoken of as a more universal problem in this type of discussion.

when people are speaking of their own situations, they of course speak personally. however, that seems to be happening less and less here. sadly, so many ow have actually stopped posting about their situations because they dont want to have to deal with the onslaught of opinions on top of the confusion of their own situation.

you may notice that you can speak freely of your pain in the infidelity forum and will be greeted with support. that rarely happens in this forum, and yet it is the ow who usually has nobody to turn to in rl either.

[Ladyjane14]

...when people are speaking of their own situations, they of course speak personally. however, that seems to be happening less and less here. sadly, so many ow have actually stopped posting about their situations because they dont want to have to deal with the onslaught of opinions on top of the confusion of their own situation.

you may notice that you can speak freely of your pain in the infidelity forum and will be greeted with support. that rarely happens in this forum, and yet it is the ow who usually has nobody to turn to in rl either.

 

Yeah....I'm going to say something controversial here ....

 

But I'm starting to think that the OM/OW forum should possibly be locked, with posting access somehow 'managed' by LS administrators. I'm not sure how that could be accomplished though. (????)

 

It's not as if there aren't other boards available here that can allow for the free interchange of ideas. It often seems that those boards aren't as well utilized as they could be....which often leaves this one as a 'battleground'. I can't imagine it's fulfilling it's intended purpose in that case.

 

I think it's valuable that the OM/OW forum be viewed. BS's obviously have lots of questions about ALL aspects of the extramarital affair, and in many cases, the OWs here have been kind enough to answer questions for them. But I agree with Newbby, it's becoming too difficult these days for the OWs to talk about their issues without interference.

[scarletletter]

I agree with Ladyjane 100%. Where are the moderators when you need them?

[newbby]

actually i'm really not sure i do agree. it is bad enough, without having to be treated even more like a criminal by having to have protection.

[scarletletter]

I guess you are right about that. However...some of these threads get soooo off subject with the constant bickering between 2 people that it really gets on my nerves.

[No Stress Lady]

It seems to me (a BS) that the OW on this forum have a lot of anger towards us wives. Why is that? We haven't done anything to you. I (personally) have gained a lot of insight towards your situation(s) while visiting this forum.

 

I haven't felt judgemental towards you. However, the anger, bitterness, and condescension that I've received has blown me away, and I've seen a similar reaction toward other wives who've chosen to remain with their husbands after discovery of the affair. So. . . why is that?

 

If this is coming out in any way judgemental, it is REALLY not meant in that light. I am trying very hard to understand.

 

 

I think your "Letter to the OW" got a lot of backs up because it was very patronizing and, to be honest, completely idealised your (cheating) husband whilst blaming the OW for the affair.

 

I can totally understand your need to express your feelings - I just think that you were unlikely to get a very sympathetic response from OW given that you didn't really seem to be allocating any blame to your husband.

 

If you read some of the postings by BS's such as Veronese you'll see that the feedback you'll get will be very different dependent on your initial attitude. Some of the OW/BS conversations are very illuminating and conducted with civility and respect shown by both parties.

 

I think it's good that BS's and the OW can swap ideas, viewpoints and thoughts here but you'll have to expect some hostility if you're perceived to be patronizing or attacking OW on this forum, even if you genuinely don't think that that is what you're doing!!!

[scarletletter]

I really don't think she was attacking, I think she was more generalizing. Maybe one or two have given BS a hard time but I can assure you that it never came from me. I don't come here to talk to BS's necessarily but if they have something interesting to say, I will respond. If anything, it's the other way around. The BS's come in here to attack the OW like they have personally wronged them. Its all so unnecessary.

[Ladyjane14]

actually i'm really not sure i do agree. it is bad enough, without having to be treated even more like a criminal by having to have protection.

 

I don't see it as "criminalization", Newbby. There are other TOW boards that have discussion limited to OWs. Maybe what y'all need is a subforum. (????)

That way there could be two catagories of discussion.

 

Currently, it just seems to me that the OW spends soooo much time 'on the defense', that she's sometimes not getting good input. That just seems somewhat defeating of purpose.

[travellingman]

But I'm starting to think that the OM/OW forum should possibly be locked, with posting access somehow 'managed' by LS administrators.

 

Great idea, only problem is the OW forum accounts for about 20-25% of all LS traffic based on my highly scientific study of the matter. But it would be nice to actually discuss an affair without some lame, impractical preaching interfering with the conversation.

[No Stress Lady]

I really don't think she was attacking, I think she was more generalizing. Maybe one or two have given BS a hard time but I can assure you that it never came from me. I don't come here to talk to BS's necessarily but if they have something interesting to say, I will respond. If anything, it's the other way around. The BS's come in here to attack the OW like they have personally wronged them. Its all so unnecessary.

 

Yes I agree with you on that ScarletLetter - I think there's a lot of projection of the BS's negative feelings onto anonymous posters whose situation probably bears no resemblance to their own!!!

 

I think there is definitely a benefit to a channel for BS/OW communication but unfortunately both parties always seem to be too quick to judge/defend etc for anyone to gain any real insight or benefit from the exchanges.

 

Always seems to become a bunfight in the end!!!

[Art_Critic]

If the OW section were to be closed then the object of LS would be different than they want it to be..

This in an open public board where ALL people are encouraged to participate..

 

 

From the first paragraph in the guidliines.. notice the word I used bold text on

Welcome to the LoveShack.org Community Forums! LoveShack.org sponsors a global peer-to-peer support resource bridging people from many different cultures and over 200 countries to interact, share, and discuss interpersonal relationships with partners, children, parents, co-workers, friends, and neighbors.

 

As an open, friendly, and diverse community, it is important that each participant conduct themselves in accordance with the guidelines and standards we have developed to maintain an environment where all are comfortable contributing to the discussion. These guidelines are based on standards we have refined over the past seven years as our community has grown and evolved. We have published them here to help you better understand what is considered appropriate and what we expect from all our community participants.

 

To borrow from Blind Otter.... I'm just sayyyinnggg

[travellingman]

If the OW section were to be closed then the object of LS would be different than they want it to be..

This in an open public board where ALL people are ncouraged to participate..

 

But the value is lost when it's invaded by people who need to post moral statements in order to feel good about themselves, rather than share advice. Maybe there should be a separate preacher forum for them.

[No Stress Lady]

But the value is lost when it's invaded by people who need to post moral statements in order to feel good about themselves, rather than share advice. Maybe there should be a separate preacher forum for them.

 

Good point!!!!!!!!!!!!