abortion is causing my marriage to break

[vtmisc]

Hi,

 

I am in Indian almost on the verge of divorce. This forum seems like the right place where I can get some more thoughts which could either save my marriage or give me the strength to go through the divorce if thats is right for me. Here is the my story

 

I am in Indian, I married my high school sweet year few years ago.

Things were not perfect for us. I had cheated on my wife(then girlfriend) when we were in school. She was devastated by it, we tried to work the relation but after couple of years we broke up. Her parents arranged her marriage (All this happened in India several years ago) she move to US. Time moved on, I came to US for my studies, found a job but was never able to take her out my heart. I was in love with her all through this time. Her relationship with her first husband never went well and after trying for several years (She was not in touch with me during this period) she filed for divorce. She came to me when she moved out of her first relation. It was blessing in my life but before her divorce went through she was pregnant with my child. I wanted to wait for kids but she didnt. It was a tough situation for us. Her divorce hadnt come through, we were not married and our families were traditional indian families. Divorce is a taboo in India, espcially for the women (I know it sound like a male chavanist society but thats the truth).

My parents agreed for the marriage but wanted her to get an abortion. I surely wanted to wait for few years before having kids but my only worry was how she would feel if she had an abortion. There were lot of fights in our family during that period. Finally it was decided not to have an abortion.

This happened few years ago. I and wife have had fights about the topic of abortion about a 100-200 times ... During this time my love for her( Believe me I really loved her more than anything else) has been completely destroyed. I have almost started to hate her now... Our main fight is

- She wants an apology from my parents as to why they forced her to have an abortion. I think that they were stating their opinion, but she says that they pressurized her a lot.

 

Why cant she move-on? Our kid is growing fine now.

 

I think they did what any Indian parent did when they havve to accept a divorced girl and also pregnant before marriage. (I think parent in US should compare it accepting gay kids. I should clarify that I dont have anything "for" or "against" gay and I am bringing this up just to make my point) I am not blaming my wife for getting pregnant.. but dont you all think that my parents had the right to state their opinion?

 

She has been forcing me to stop sending my parents any kids photos or sharing anything about the kids with them

now she says that I should talk to them till they apologize to her?

 

Is she overreacting? I agree abortion period was very traumatic for her.. but cant she move on?

Why should I give my relation with my parents to be with her?

They are willing to talk to her.. but she thinks that they have to fall on her feet and beg to her.. why should that happen?

 

v

[suegail]

You've got me pretty much confused. You stated it was decided she would NOT have an abortion, and later in the post you stated she was or she feels she was forced into having an abortion. So, I don't know at this point which it was, but you did say you have a child with her now....

 

Whichever it is, I can certainly understand her feelings. Life is precious and that is what she feels about it, this was her child, one which she wanted very much, and yet your parents were making demands on what she should do with that life...and frankly I am astonished by their attitude and by the zero value they apparently placed on the life of their grandchild.

 

This is something your wife will always carry in her heart, because there is nothing like the loss of a child, even an unborn child, there is almost no greater pain in this world...I really believe that...if that is what happened, that she had an abortion she never wanted, she is going to grieve, and I don't know she'll ever really get over it...

[SoleMate]

Have you tried really listening to your wife and accepting her feelings as valid? Not saying - necessarily - that's she's 100% correct and the rest of you are 100% wrong. I definitely am saying that if she is told to sweep her feelings under the rug, this issue will never be truly and happily resolved.

 

I do agree with suegail - that to attempt to pressure a woman to abort a wanted child is not something that is easily forgotten or forgiven. You should always protect your wife from hurt - either the hurt of cheating/betrayal or the hurt of being pressured by YOUR parents to have an abortion.

 

To clarify - although your post rambles a bit, it appears that despite the pressure, she did NOT have the abortion and did go ahead and give birth - right? I would have the same questions as your wife - why do you want to see pictures of the grandchild you tried to force me to have destroyed?

 

I don't know that they have to fall on her feet literally - but they sure as heck need to tell her how wrong they were, how very sorry they feel, and how glad they are that the child was born. AND they need to ask her what they can do to make it right. Yes, they're the parents, but I am afraid that they behaved so badly that they will now have to humble themselves to have a hope of repairing this family relationship. You and your wife are now in the US, and according to US norms, your parents were WAY out of line, and so were you in permitting it.

 

You and your wife may benefit from counselling so you can both come to terms with what has happened, and you can learn to stop hurting her and start protecting and loving her.

[blind_otter]

Look, everything else aside -- NO ONE has the right to tell a woman to have an abortion. It's her body. Her burden to carry. If she chooses to carry this extra burden of social stigma in order to have the child, no one has the right to tell her what she should or shouldn't do. The only two people involved in making the baby - YOU AND HER - are the ONLY two people who have a right to say anything about its existence.

 

You allowed your parents to victimize her at a very vulnerable period. She feels betrayed that you didn't try to protect her and stand up for her and your child, and you were willling to sacrifice her needs, feelings, and the child you created, in order to appear more appropriate to your parents and "society".

 

I was pregnant by a man last year whose mother asked me to abort. I didn't, and even though my relationship with that man ended (horribly, with his horrible psychotic behavior) -- to this day I will not speak to his mother or answer her calls. My pregnancy ended in miscarriage and me delivering a dead baby, and I place part of the blame on the stressful situation that he and his mother put me in.

[bab]

I don't think many of us here can truely appreciate the society from which the two of you come. Likewise, I don't think you are truely trying to understand the situation and feelings that your parents imposed on your wife. I know that you say they were accepting alot just to let the two of you marry. But she didn't get pregnant by herself. It takes two, and you need to understand that even thinking that it needs saying

"I am not blaming my wife for getting pregnant" is something that sounds sooo ridiculus to me. Why would it even cross your mind? But you say you don't blame her.

 

How do you feel about your child now? Do you love them? If so, then you have her to thank. Tell her how extremely glad that she was a strong enough woman to stand up to the pressures of your family.

 

Ask your parents if they love their grandchild. If the answer is yes, then they too owe your wife gratitude, and it's not unreasonable that your wife expect that they actually express it verbally. They were certainly willing to express it verbally when they didn't approve.

[vtmisc]

[FONT=Verdana]This has been the best forum ever. I consider every person here as volunteer's who are making the world a better place. Thanks everyone.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]The feedback that I got has definetely enabled me to think differently than before.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I wasn’t clear earlier. Abortion was not done. And about pregnancy being forced… well, its hard to describe but I think for the most part I had made it clear to her that I wasn’t interested in kids yet (we were not even married and she was in her prior marriage). I agree I was an equal part in it but I would say she was "more equal".[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]We had some arguments at that time too.. she used to say.. you want to have sex but dont want the responsibility associated with that?? Isnt that ridiculous? Well.. thats another topic. But coming to this one.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I think the problem started because the communication was not going through me. I was able to understand the separation between pressurizing and opinion of my parents but my wife need not and did not have the same impression about what my parent said and I now understand it.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]The problem was multiplied because everyone was staying in the same house when these discussions were going on. So every single thing just added to the heat. Smallest things were becoming bigger and bigger.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I will talk to my wife and was planning to tell her that. My parents should not have told her what they told. (They should have told me what they had to.. but they shouldnt have told her) I think she will have a problem with the stuff about them telling me too.. [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Am I right in telling that my relationship should not dictated by her? Her argument is that how can you want have a relation with the people who wanted to kill your children?[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I feel that my parents were telling what they thought and it was there opinion. I understand where they were coming from but she doesnt? Is she right in her argument about me not having relation with my parents??[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]There were certainly some difficulties dealing with an unprepared/unplanned pregnancy social, financial and the baby work also felt like a huge load of work.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]I feel I want to be in this relation now only because of the kids. How hard should I try to mend this relation? Often times I feel that I will be better off without her... but its the kids that I have got attached to. I also feel bad for them having a life without their own father. I doubt anyone can replace their own parents love.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Is marital therapy good? Does it help?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]I have started looking for Marital therapists? How should find a good one?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]I had read in some post that you shouldnt go through insurance to pay for your therapy because it comes in your record and you might have problems getting another job. Is that true?[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Thanks a lot. [/FONT]

[vtmisc]

This has been the best forum ever. I consider every person here as volunteer's who are making the world a better place. Thanks everyone.

 

 

The feedback that I got has definetely enabled me to think differently than before.

 

I wasnt clear earlier. Abortion was not done. And about pregnancy being forced well, its hard to describe but I think for the most part I had made it clear to her that I wasnt interested in kids yet (we were not even married and she was in her prior marriage). I agree I was an equal part in it but I would say she was "more equal".

 

We had some arguments at that time too.. she used to say.. you want to have sex but dont want the responsibility associated with that?? Isnt that ridiculous? Well.. thats another topic. But coming to this one.

 

I think the problem started because the communication was not going through me. I was able to understand the separation between pressurizing and opinion of my parents but my wife need not and did not have the same impression about what my parent said and I now understand it.

 

The problem was multiplied because everyone was staying in the same house when these discussions were going on. So every single thing just added to the heat. Smallest things were becoming bigger and bigger.

 

I will talk to my wife and was planning to tell her that. My parents should not have told her what they told. (They should have told me what they had to.. but they shouldnt have told her) I think she will have a problem with the stuff about them telling me too..

 

Am I right in telling that my relationship should not dictated by her? Her argument is that how can you want have a relation with the people who wanted to kill your children?

 

I feel that my parents were telling what they thought and it was there opinion. I understand where they were coming from but she doesnt? Is she right in her argument about me not having relation with my parents??

 

There were certainly some difficulties dealing with an unprepared/unplanned pregnancy social, financial and the baby work also felt like a huge load of work.

 

I feel I want to be in this relation now only because of the kids. How hard should I try to mend this relation? Often times I feel that I will be better off without her... but its the kids that I have got attached to. I also feel bad for them having a life without their own father. I doubt anyone can replace their own parents love.

 

Is marital therapy good? Does it help?

 

I have started looking for Marital therapists? How should find a good one?

 

I had read in some post that you shouldnt go through insurance to pay for your therapy because it comes in your record and you might have problems getting another job. Is that true?

 

Thanks a lot.

[suegail]

I'm glad we could help in any way. And I can see why it's hard for you because you're caught between your wife and your parents, and of course you don't want hard feelings to exist, but honestly this is something I don't know can ever change altogether. It just cuts too deep. I think that is how your wife feels, but I do think it will surely help bring some healing if you show her you do understand her feelings. You love your parents, yes, of course, but they were as wrong as they could be in making such a demand and I think if you show your wife that you do see that clearly...I think that will help her.

 

I think marriage counseling would be a very good thing for you both and I hope you'll do that. I wouldn't concern yourself with the insurance problems related to your job. I believe that most employers want their employees to seek counseling if they need it, and besides all that, HIPPA laws may apply and I doubt anyone has any right to give out any information on what type of health care issues you have had. I wouldn't worry about it.

[suegail]

and I wholeheartedly agree with Solemate - I hope your parents will try to find it within themselves to make an apology to your wife. I hope they are not too full of pride to do that.

[blind_otter]

and I wholeheartedly agree with Solemate - I hope your parents will try to find it within themselves to make an apology to your wife. I hope they are not too full of pride to do that.

 

I agree, at least for the sake of the child....

 

I don't really understand why you want to leave the marriage, though. Is it specifically due to the bad feelings all around?

 

And honestly, no one is "more equal" when it comes to conceiving a child. It takes two people, and no one person is more at fault -- unless she misled you and lied and said she was on birth control and wasn't.

[Becoming]

You want to leave, probably, because you hate being stuck in the middle between your wife and your parents.

 

See the following similar thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t73525/

 

Your relationship with your wife should be primary over that of your parents, according to US ways of thinking, which I think she has, too. You sided with your parents against her, making her question whether or not you're really there for her.

 

And, indeed, it seems she's right. Now you're not in love with her. Why? Because you can't play the obedient, pleasing son?

 

You just don't blow off blessings like her that come your way twice. You really piss off the universe when you do that, and it'll be nothing but misery.

 

Let go of your parents and cleave unto your wife and child.

 

Once she feels that your primary relationship is to you, which may take some time of you not seeing your parents (as much as two years), she'll probably not want to deprive your child of her/his grandparents and come around. But give way on this one. She stood for life, and you stood for death in a situation where you decided saving face was more important than saving your baby. And all for social convention.

 

Do you live by no higher laws than what society says is the right thing to do?

[vtmisc]

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[FONT=Verdana]I now understand that my Parent talking to my wife directly was wrong and I have clearly said that and I have also said that my primary relation is with my wife (If that wasn’t the case I think I would have been out of this by now.)[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Now sh wants me to say that they shouldn’t have told that to me too? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]How can she tell me what my parents should or should not tell me? She sometimes agrees that my parents telling an opinion about abortion was OK[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]But who is to decide what is being told to me by my parents is an opinion or not? My wife or me?[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I think my understanding with my P is for me to judge and not her? [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]Now she wants me to tell my p that they were wrong, she says that it isnt ok if I tell them that they were wrong in telling her what they told? [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]She says that I have to tell them they were wrong and they didn’t have a right to say what they said.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]What do you all think? Am I the only one thinking that she is not the one to decide what is wrong or right? She surely has the right to say what was told to her is wrong but if she starts deciding what is right or wrong according to me also? [/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana]I am the person who has to interpret what is said to me? And not her? [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Am I totally wrong here.[/FONT]

[vtmisc]

I now understand that my Parent talking to my wife directly was wrong and I have clearly said that and I have also said that my primary relation is with my wife (If that wasn't the case I think I would have been out of this by now.)

 

Now sh wants me to say that they shouldn't have told that to me too?

 

How can she tell me what my parents should or should not tell me? She sometimes agrees that my parents telling an opinion about abortion was OK

But who is to decide what is being told to me by my parents is an opinion or not? My wife or me?

 

I think my understanding with my P is for me to judge and not her?

 

Now she wants me to tell my p that they were wrong, she says that it isnt ok if I tell them that they were wrong in telling her what they told?

 

She says that I have to tell them they were wrong and they didn't have a right to say what they said.

 

What do you all think? Am I the only one thinking that she is not the one to decide what is wrong or right? She surely has the right to say what was told to her is wrong but if she starts deciding what is right or wrong according to me also?

 

I am the person who has to interpret what is said to me? And not her?

Am I totally wrong here

[Becoming]

Is it a matter of being right or wrong? Or just different?

 

She has her way of seeing things; you have yours. They're both right for each of you, and these perceptions have to be honored and worked with.

 

Frankly, it sounds like you want to tell your wife not only what to do but to think and feel as well. And she you.

 

Unless you can learn to respect one another's differences, you're gonna have trouble.

[vtmisc]

Please share your thoughts about this... It is helping me.

 

 

I agree that we have to respect each other's opinions. I think I am trying to do that.. though I agree I was guilty not being able to do so for past couple of years.. I always thought that my parents expressed their opinion.. but she thought that they pressurized her.

 

After bouncing of my thoughts in this board..I was able to see the picture differently. That because I know my parents I was able to differentiate between what was pressurizing and what was opinion. And more importantly that they should NOT have told her anything. Their boundary ended with me.. especially before we were married. She never had any interaction with them and she had the right to preceive it as pressure or anything she wanted. I cannot question her why she felt the way she felt.

 

She keeps asking me "how can you like the people who wanted to kill your kid". Is that a reasonable question? Isnt this exactly like the debate about abortion? Is it right or wrong? People get abortion for different reasons.. and different people have different thinking about it.

Is there anyone in this board who thinks that sometimes abortion might be a better choice?

 

Now, I am caught in another confusion.. should I give her the benefit of doubt at this stressful situation that her behaviour now which is extremely bad. Our situation is extremely delicate now. She wants to split right now..., I am just holding the best I can.. I dont think I can hold it too long unless she also calms down.

 

She is really testing me now.

 

I think I am good dad.. and I would feel REALLY bad for my kid if we end up breaking. I do have my occasional frustration that I didnt get to do what I wanted to .... but on the whole I think I am a good dad.

 

But I dont think I can take her current behaviour too long. Weekend is coming and I am scared that I will explode and that it will be the end. Work is good relief...

 

She says it is my responsibility to gain her trust and love back?

Why? Isnt it her responsibility also to make this relation work? What gives her the right? Isnt she going to lose too if this relation doesnt work?

 

I know I should calm down at this time ..but I am not able to.. I have told her lot of stuff.. which she brings up in different time

 

I have told her things like, I think she is egoistic, self-centered... etc. Most of it I have told her in a fit of anger but I think there is an element of truth in it.

 

She knows that kids love me and I take good care of them.. and she is willing to sacrifice that for her hurt?

I am willing to try to improve things and put effort from my side. (Agreed I have told this many time before also...)

 

Am I just in a bad relation that I need to end?

 

I loved her so much so much I cant even tell and now it has reached a point where I just cant stand her. She also loved me a lot, I felt like soo special when I was with her.

 

I am trying to salvage this.. hoping that the love is still there somewhere and it will come out if we get past this storm. But I dont think I can give her what she is asking now because I dont think it is right.

 

She wants me to tell that my parents shouldnt have told me anything about the abortion? How can she say what they should/shouldnt tell me?

 

I dont want to say something just because she wants to hear it.

[Becoming]

Wow. You're really going through it, aren't you? I'm sorry this is happening to you.

 

The issue at this point isn't really about abortion: right or wrong? It wasn't right for her, but you thought maybe it was for you in this instance. It was that she felt your parents were encouraging you to pressure her into doing something she didn't feel was right. And that it was none of their business.

 

She's right: it really wasn't their business--except that getting married, having children isn't just a private thing, is it? It affects our other family.

 

And now you feel like she's pressuring you into doing something that's not right. Is that right?

 

Fact is, your parents can't take anything said back. They can, however, apologize. Have they? I think that's what she wants, but I don't know.

 

Honestly, it sounds like she's just as strong and controlling as your parents, and you're caught in the middle.

 

If you have any chance as a couple, it's got to be with an agreement to stop the destructive and controlling behavior and words. You recognize yours have hurt her, but does she understand how much her words and actions toward you are hurting you and your love? Have you tried telling her this?

 

Having a young child is difficult on a marriage, let alone in your circumstances. Please get some professional marriage counseling for the sake of your child if not you. If I didn't already mention it: check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com.

 

Keep focusing on communicating clearly and calmly what's going on with you and what you would like without focusing on trying to control her behavior or perceptions. Know where you draw the line between what is and is not acceptable to you, tell her what the consequences are when she violates that (i.e. "when you yell at me, I have to leave the room for 20 minutes to calm down." or" when you quit yelling at me I'll listen" or "if you'll talk to me calmly, I'll be able to hear you and work with you to solve what's upsetting you" or whatever ). Then do whatever it is you say you will. She'll eventually get the picture. It may make her madder at first, but after a few times she'll get that you mean business and start to change.

 

Have a back up plan for when you start to lose it with her--like taking child to park without her or going to a movie alone or something--this weekend. That sometimes helps.

 

Best wishes. It sounds like you're going to need 'em!

[vtmisc]

Getting more clarity. Not sure if this relation will be saved or not.. but I will feel less guilty if it breaks because I will be doing (hope) what I think is right

 

It hasnt come to a solution for such a long time because I was trying to make her see my point of view. I dont need to do that.

 

If I am not forcing anyone to see my point of view.. they shouldnt be telling me either.

 

Here is what I feel.

 

- I need to tell both my parents and my wife to back off. I dont think I have to take any side here. It is not a "them vs her" competition here. I have tell both of them now to not tell me complains about the other person. They both know that my relationship with the other person is important to me and they should if they can try to adjust if they cant atleast stop telling me what is wrong in my relation with them.

 

I hope I can tell them both firmly.

 

Another thing that happened when my parents and my wife first met. there was another clash of cultures...

So anyways... my wife during her pregnanc was wearing very loose and low cut dress through out the day, my mom came and told me that her dress was making them uncomfortable.. and if she could wear anything different during the day?

Was it wrong of my mom to tell me about it? Should they have tried to ignore it They were going to stay with us for more than just a couple of days?

This issue flared up and became a big issue when she read my email where this was mentioned in some context. It again became a problem of interpretation.

 

In US, is there a silent "dress code" when you meet in-laws? I know it could vary a lot between different families, but do people consider in-laws any different than they would anyone else in terms of dressing.

 

 

 

To start with should husband and wife read each other's emails?

Is there any boundary between husband and wife?

Should they share everything?

[Becoming]

Dear goodness! It sounds like these folks are using you as a tennis ball being bandied back and forth.

 

Google the term triangulation in relationships and learn about it because this is what's happening. You're right: you need to take a stand with both--preferably with them all in the room. (I know, that sounds like it could be scary for you, huh?) If parents have something to say to wife, they need to say it to wife. If wife has something to say to parents, ditto. And when they start gossipping about one another to you, you need to remind them you will not listen and to take it up with the proper person they have a problem with.

 

With re: to dress, if it were someone I didn't know well and they bent over in a dress in such a way that I could see things dresses are meant to cover up, I'd assume they weren't aware of it and quietly mention, "You might want to hold your dress so we can't see . . . ." so that she knew about the problem and wouldn't embarrass herself any further. That's only kind. But it sounds like your parents judged her as some kind of shameless hussy without giving her the kindness of common courtesy in telling her they could see clear to Kansas.

 

You really have a lot of issues here that need more than friendly advice. Get into couples counseling if you want to save this marriage because you're both tearing your marriage in two, and it sounds like this would simply delight your parents.

[vtmisc]

Well ... I hope I will have this site as a log in future to see what I have tried.

 

I did go to a therapist and told her things as I saw it. I was expecting her to say that my parents were totally wrong in expressing their opinion etc etc. I had chosen a caucasian female therapist so that she would see the things from a independedn women's prespective.

To my surprise she said that my wife should forget the past and move on. She said that whatever happened was in the past and it happened her way. It was different thing for her to be mad at me and my parents if she had got the abortion. She also said that abortion is a very complicated issue, its a social, religious, personal, legal issue. And she didnt think it was wrong for my parents to express their opinion.

 

She said that she cant say for sure but she thought that my wife has a control issue and that she was just looking for a reason to feel upset.

 

 

I have been giving her the benefit of doubt throughout because I wasnt sure what would be the extent of hurt caused due to "considering abortion" ... Now it makes me feel that she has problems ..if she is really as hurt and angry as she says she is, then I think she needs help. I always thought that if I was in her position I would have moved on.. but was never sure how a women would feel. Now talking to the therapist .. i feel that she has a problem and not anyone else.

 

I didnt want my words to her being told in a reactive manner so I took couple of days to think it over. I also spoke to my parents and told them they shouldnt have told her anything and everything should have come through me...

 

She doesnt want to come to any therapist. Is she scared that the therapist will see through what she is doing.?

 

She doesnt want to be with me and I dont want to be with her.. Kid is the only reason why I am bearing with her.

 

I guess I should prepare myself to divorce... It is going to hard because of the kid. I really love my kid and want to be with the kid but at the same time I dont want to be with the same crowd, same people and feel divorced. It will feel very awkward to me infront of all my friends.. No one has ever got a divorce. But I think I will stay in the same place and rebuild my life, I am sure I will get visitation rights for my kid

 

I am in my early 30's and hopefully can piece my life again. Things would have been so easy if the kid issue wasnt there