The Art of Letting Go

[blind_otter]

I am wondering if some actually may enjoy an abusive situation as well. The thrill of the fight in a odd sort of way. Or the use of a break up as a way to focus on themselves and obtain sympathy. I am not wording this properly but I would hope you get the idea. (my brain is not relating well with itself today).

 

Does the ability to let go help with beating issues of child abuse in adulthood. I am wondering if people prefer to cling to and magnify those issues rather than to let them go get some sort of "good feeling"? (that should get my ass chewed good by a few) This is a question not a statement!

 

I don't know that "enjoy" is a good word to use. How is it ever enjoyable to be black and blue and get beaten up all the time? Also there is a huge element of shame involved in the abusive relationship. I don't even discuss what has happened to me with my family or friends IRL. I am too ashamed to talk about it with ANYONE.

 

Also, with PTSD, it's like you can't force yourself to let go. Part of your brain gets stuck in that trauma. As much as you try to avoid/forget, everything reminds you of what happened.

 

And sadly I don't think most people who were violated or beaten as small children can understand how completely helpless you feel. I mean come on, imagine yourself in the situation. Children can't process what's happening to them, so it gets all messed up inside their head.

[kitten chick]

This is a good thread topic a4a. (on a side not BC for the frog analogy).

 

I've been on both sides. I used to be a very detached person and my life was really easy and really unfulfilling. My positive emotions were so non-exisitant I was run almost solely by logic. I agree that if one doesn't know happiness for most of their lives they won't seek it out and unhappiness will seem normal. There is still a desire to get out of it and find happiness, it just feels uncomfortable when you do and you expect that it will end at any given moment. It doesn't mean that unhappiness is what you want or need, it's just what you know.

 

I basically did a 180 in my mid 20s and have become a highly emotional person who gets attached fairly easily. The highs are higher and the lows are the pitts of he!! but I find that my relationships with friends are more fulfilling as is the rest of my life. (I haven't yet had a fulfilling romantic relationship so I can't really comment on that) I can't let go of people that I become attached to now, something always pulls me back in. I'm not completely sure why but being a highly introspective person, my best guess is that it's due to oversensitivity and fear of abandonment. My oversensitivity is most likely physical in nature and my fear of abandonment is most likely due to growing up with a sibling with a critical illness and being friends catty little girls growing up.

[kitten chick]

Also there is a huge element of shame involved in the abusive relationship. I don't even discuss what has happened to me with my family or friends IRL. I am too ashamed to talk about it with ANYONE.

I felt the same way getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship. Nobody had any idea because I was to ashamed to tell anyone what I put up with. I felt it had a poor reflection on me and my now brow beatten self esteem. I always said I would never allow anyone to lay a finger on me, if they hit me once they were out the door for good. For some rediculous reason even though I wouldn't allow physical abuse, emotional abuse was ok.

[bluechocolate]

kitten chick - apologies for the veiled reference to cannibalism & a perhaps poor attempt at humour. Other than that I think the frog analogy is very good. For many the abuse isn't immediate or immediately recognisable as such. They are lulled into a false sense of security & then proclamations of love & promises to change. By the time the water is getting very hot they may be too damaged to jump out of the pot, even when they know that is what they should do.

[blind_otter]

kitten chick - apologies for the veiled reference to cannibalism & a perhaps poor attempt at humour. Other than that I think the frog analogy is very good. For many the abuse isn't immediate or immediately recognisable as such. They are lulled into a false sense of security & then proclamations of love & promises to change. By the time the water is getting very hot they may be too damaged to jump out of the pot, even when they know that is what they should do.

 

This is a good explanation, IMO. You don't date someone who smacks you around on the first date. They trick you into trusting them first, and even if you are (like me) not quick to trust, it's like he made it a project to wait and lull me and then, only then, did he start to slowly humiliate me. Little things. words, shoves, ignoring me. It was like a long process of conditioning me -- my past just happened to make me receptive to it.

[bluechocolate]

-- my past just happened to make me receptive to it.

Damaged souls are very good at finding one another.

[blind_otter]

Damaged souls are very good at finding one another.

 

Lindya mentioned in another thread that socially we receive this message to not be involved with damaged people. I felt that keenly. That mentally healthy people who had not experienced what I have deserve that, in kind. They do, I think. On some level, I don't think I deserve it.

 

I am too much of a burden for a "normal" person to be with. Flashbacks, night terrors, ritualistic compulsions that give me an illusion of "safety" -- no one would want to deal with it, but I have to, so I do. But the damaged men I have been with did....I suppose they wanted the same thing I did. To be with someone who wouldn't judge them as less than for things that happened to them when they had no control over their lives. AS toddlers are wont to do.

 

The impulse to find love and self-actualization is still there.

[lindya]

I am wondering if some actually may enjoy an abusive situation as well. The thrill of the fight in a odd sort of way. Or the use of a break up as a way to focus on themselves and obtain sympathy. I am not wording this properly but I would hope you get the idea. (my brain is not relating well with itself today).

 

When someone takes an unusually long time to get over relationship break ups I think that's a symptom of underlying problems that existed before the relationship and have been brought to the surface as a result of its demise. If someone is confronted with their long-standing issues and chooses to simply ignore them and pretend everything's okay (ie in order to win approval from the "get over it already" brigade), then they're missing an opportunity to increase their self-awareness and emotional intelligence - in my opinion.

 

So yes, a relationship break up might be used by some people as an opportunity to focus on themselves. That isn't necessarily a negative thing.

[a4a]

Damaged souls are very good at finding one another.

 

 

Personal question do not answer if you do not wish to.

 

BC did you come from an abusive childhood?

The reason I ask is because you have some of the traits I do when it come to letting go.

[a4a]

When someone takes an unusually long time to get over relationship break ups I think that's a symptom of underlying problems that existed before the relationship and have been brought to the surface as a result of its demise. If someone is confronted with their long-standing issues and chooses to simply ignore them and pretend everything's okay (ie in order to win approval from the "get over it already" brigade), then they're missing an opportunity to increase their self-awareness and emotional intelligence - in my opinion.

 

So yes, a relationship break up might be used by some people as an opportunity to focus on themselves. That isn't necessarily a negative thing.

 

 

Lindya I would have to agree with you on most of your points. But at times I see people using a break up or those that seem to just dwell on it for what seems to be eons to cripple themselves. Almost like an addiction to the break up ... or the drama of the break up.

[kitten chick]

kitten chick - apologies for the veiled reference to cannibalism & a perhaps poor attempt at humour. Other than that I think the frog analogy is very good. For many the abuse isn't immediate or immediately recognisable as such. They are lulled into a false sense of security & then proclamations of love & promises to change. By the time the water is getting very hot they may be too damaged to jump out of the pot, even when they know that is what they should do.

That's ok, the analogy was excellent, the image of boiling frogs wasn't. I think that you said this very well.

 

And I couldn't have said this better myself. I feel the same exact way.

You don't date someone who smacks you around on the first date. They trick you into trusting them first, and even if you are (like me) not quick to trust, it's like he made it a project to wait and lull me and then, only then, did he start to slowly humiliate me. Little things. words, shoves, ignoring me. It was like a long process of conditioning me -- my past just happened to make me receptive to it.

[lindya]

Lindya mentioned in another thread that socially we receive this message to not be involved with damaged people. I felt that keenly. That mentally healthy people who had not experienced what I have deserve that, in kind. They do, I think. On some level, I don't think I deserve it.

 

I am too much of a burden for a "normal" person to be with. Flashbacks, night terrors, ritualistic compulsions that give me an illusion of "safety" -- no one would want to deal with it, but I have to, so I do. But the damaged men I have been with did....I suppose they wanted the same thing I did. To be with someone who wouldn't judge them as less than for things that happened to them when they had no control over their lives. AS toddlers are wont to do.

 

The impulse to find love and self-actualization is still there.

 

This is why I hate that word "damaged" so much. For every bit of "damage" you might have, Otter, there is a corresponding quality. Each trauma triggered the development of one of those qualities - and it shows in your exceptional posts.

 

Lots of people survive trauma, with difficulty, and grow into amazing people because of the insights they obtained during the healing process. Others don't. They don't try to heal, they just pull down the shutters on their pain and cope with it by going around inflicting on others what was once inflicted on them. That's damage...and unfortunately it's a sort of damage that frequently parades itself as "normality" and "mental health".

[bluechocolate]

Personal question do not answer if you do not wish to.

 

BC did you come from an abusive childhood?

No. I was however severely bullied to the point of being suicidal for a number of years in my early teens. I have often felt that I'd been robbed of the years of my life between 11 and 16 & was forced to grow up pretty damn quick. If I hadn't I wouldn't be here right now.

 

Lordy Otter! I know what you mean about the shame. I felt ashamed just typing that & now I'm sitting here holding back the tears & trying to steady my shaking hands. Big boys don't cry, my arse! I am over this crap, but the memories can be brutal.

[lindya]

Lindya I would have to agree with you on most of your points. But at times I see people using a break up or those that seem to just dwell on it for what seems to be eons to cripple themselves. Almost like an addiction to the break up ... or the drama of the break up.

 

I agree - and I think it can happen when people are determinedly ignoring all those other issues that are slapping them in the face. The drama of the break up can help them to keep the focus away from those demons.

[blind_otter]

My parents are the poster children for damaged souls seeking each other out. In some ways I think my Dad thought only my mother could understand him because they both experienced the intensity of war. And they both have killer PTSD, which is always great fun at family events and when cars backfire.

 

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Snort. But apparently we worship it like some sort of demigod in Western society.

 

Stiff upper lip, goddamit!

[a4a]

This is why I hate that word "damaged" so much. For every bit of "damage" you might have, Otter, there is a corresponding quality. Each trauma triggered the development of one of those qualities - and it shows in your exceptional posts.

 

Lots of people survive trauma, with difficulty, and grow into amazing people because of the insights they obtained during the healing process. Others don't. They don't try to heal, they just pull down the shutters on their pain and cope with it by going around inflicting on others what was once inflicted on them. That's damage...and unfortunately it's a sort of damage that frequently parades itself as "normality" and "mental health".

 

You are so right on this Lindya and I would have to add that you can use the trauma you suffered to actually empower yourself. I am actually thankful for the trials of my life.

[blind_otter]

I agree - and I think it can happen when people are determinedly ignoring all those other issues that are slapping them in the face. The drama of the break up can help them to keep the focus away from those demons.

 

Totally agree. And there is a certain type of person, who uses that as an impetus to explore themselves, and the underlying reasons they have the emotional reactions to the things that they react to.

 

I call it, falling down on the road of life, and spilling your baggage everywhere. Then as you put it all away you sort through things, get rid of some of the excess.

[Becoming]

I agree - and I think it can happen when people are determinedly ignoring all those other issues that are slapping them in the face. The drama of the break up can help them to keep the focus away from those demons.

 

 

Precisely!

 

Great discussion--you're all on target with boiling frog, shame, denied pain and baggage.

 

Because society tells us no one wants anyone with baggage, we try to hide ours. But then we find someone with baggage who "understands" we're not the perfection society values. I think it's actually a deep desire for healing that may initially get us into bad relationships that feel good at first. Then things get confusing because, for those of us abused as children, we don't know that all relationships aren't like that. But then another part knows something ain't right . . . and let the games (and drama) begin!

[kitten chick]

Lindya I would have to agree with you on most of your points. But at times I see people using a break up or those that seem to just dwell on it for what seems to be eons to cripple themselves. Almost like an addiction to the break up ... or the drama of the break up.

I'm sorry, either I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or I have to disagree. I don't think that people use breakups to cripple themselves. This just doesn't make sense to me, I must be misunderstanding.

 

When someone takes an unusually long time to get over relationship break ups I think that's a symptom of underlying problems that existed before the relationship and have been brought to the surface as a result of its demise.

Possibly, probably. Some people may not be as hurt over the breakup but just using it as the scapegoat for everything else that's going wrong in their lives. I discussed this in the past with another poster. Both of us had family members become critically ill and/or die not too long after a breakup. It was far easier to face losing our boyfriends than our parents. Since our familial losses were to much to bear, we subconsciously focused on the loss of our boyfriends because it was easier to take.

[a4a]

Precisely!

 

I think it's actually a deep desire for healing that may initially get us into bad relationships that feel good at first. Then things get confusing because, for those of us abused as children, we don't know that all relationships aren't like that. But then another part knows something ain't right . . . and let the games (and drama) begin!

 

That is my thing how is it that I did realize what unhealthy behavior was at the age of about 10 years old. It was so obvious to me. So obvious in fact that I emancipated myself at the age of 14.

 

Why do so many allow the cycle to continue. The signs are there but ignored?

[kitten chick]

Those that are able to make a less painful exit from a relationship : What is it that you have within yourself that allows this?

 

I still haven't seen much on how you do this. I'd like to know how to learn to detach from people because I don't seem to be able to do that too well.

[blind_otter]

Why do so many allow the cycle to continue. The signs are there but ignored?

 

I don't know the type of abuse you suffered, since it is insinuated that you did....

 

But mine was not constant. Always alternating between high highs and low lows. In every abusive relationship this is how it's been for me. Never always completely bad. Even as an adult, like when I was a child, I kept hoping that I would get some consistent love from my partner.

 

So I suppose you could call it delusional optimism. I have that -- no matter what has happened to me, I've always knows that I would survive.

 

Almost like I know that there is no such thing as "intolerable" for me. I've been broken but never reached a breaking point. Does that make sense?

[a4a]

I still haven't seen much on how you do this. I'd like to know how to learn to detach from people because I don't seem to be able to do that too well.

 

 

It is simple for me to step outside and try to look at it or evaluate the postive and negative. Almost like a business decision. Once that is done I can have a little chat with my emotional side and say "listen this is not good for you, it serves no positive purpose in your life, and you need to move on".....

 

My job is quite often like this as well. It certainly requires you to deal with your emotions in a logical manner. So dealing with that so much I guess it just makes you learn to accept things that you cannot change and move on to those that you can.

[kitten chick]

It is simple for me to step outside and try to look at it or evaluate the postive and negative. Almost like a business decision. Once that is done I can have a little chat with my emotional side and say "listen this is not good for you, it serves no positive purpose in your life, and you need to move on".....

I've tried this and it doesn't seem to work for me. In the past year my emotional side has overtaken my logical side. I can't seem to not feel things which was something that came easy to me for a good part of my life.

 

My job is quite often like this as well. It certainly requires you to deal with your emotions in a logical manner. So dealing with that so much I guess it just makes you learn to accept things that you cannot change and move on to those that you can.

I understand what you mean and I've desensitized myself as well. I feel like because it's not happening to me I can have sorrow and empathy for bad things happening out side of me but when they happen to me I fall apart. Logically it's all there, emotionally I just can't get there. I never had to learn how to control my emotions in the past because I never had any so now I'm struggling to learn how to develop this skill. Logical reasoning doesn't seemm to be working for me.

[blind_otter]

It is simple for me to step outside and try to look at it or evaluate the postive and negative. Almost like a business decision. Once that is done I can have a little chat with my emotional side and say "listen this is not good for you, it serves no positive purpose in your life, and you need to move on".....

 

My job is quite often like this as well. It certainly requires you to deal with your emotions in a logical manner. So dealing with that so much I guess it just makes you learn to accept things that you cannot change and move on to those that you can.

 

Woah, nelly. I suppose this is more functional, so in a utilitarian way it's "better"....my mother is like this. Like you. Very pragmatic, even though she's bipolar. She isn't a drama queen, she is very pragmatic and always advises me to just "move on" and accept things I cannot change.

 

For her, though, all it served to do was severely sublimate her issues, and they end up coming up in other, really WEIRD ways, because she stuffs it all the time. She doesn't ever deal with it, or explore her feelings or how her behavior affects other people, while I am keenly aware of how my behavior affects others.

 

It's like she just put blinders on.