Ash Wednesday

[Becoming]

As a follow-up to Tudor's Lent thread, today is Ash Wednesday, a day that was originally set aside as a public day of repentance. We've turned it into an individual day of reflection, but in olden days it was like Yom Kippur--a day of public confession for what we as a society have done that we need to atone for.

 

So let's have our own Ash Wednesday ritual confession/reflection. What is it that you think our societies need to confess and repent/change?

[Mz. Pixie]

Gosh, I would say personal responsibility is a big one. I think we need to get away with the entitlement that society owes me anything at all! People need to grow up knowing that you get out of life what you put in, and that much of it is about hard work and sacrifice for most people.

 

Which leads me into another rant- people who don't parent their children!

They are molding a whole different generation of people who are rude, spoiled, and have no sense of the above mentioned personal responsibility. I'm not saying all parents are like that but I believe that much of the issues in society could be alieviated by parents just teaching their children right from wrong and insisting on consistent behavior.

[bluechocolate]

....a day of public confession for what we as a society have done that we need to atone for.

 

Good heavens Becoming - I don't think there is enough disc space in the world to hold that one! Unless of course we don't have to do this retrospectively & can stick to a time line. Even then I think LS would need some pretty heavy donations.

[Becoming]

I'm thinking of an Ash Wed. in the Middle Ages where the Pope called the King to repent of some oppression he was perpetrating upon his people. And the King did, walking on his knees from the palace up the steps into the cathedral.

 

Imagine G W having to repent of

• getting us into a war that had little (if anything) to do with 9-11 by using our horror over that event to lead us astray
  
• cutting social programs to the point where Katrina victims are living in tent cities while the rich enjoy tax cuts
  
• cutting funding to the states so that the states' national guard, schools, and infrastructure are disintegrating from lack of federal funding
  
• being generally incompetent and clueless that the root of the Hebrew word for righteousness is justice
  

 

We need to lament the curtailment of our so-called free press that's been bought out by the concerns of big business as to what is/is not seen.

 

And having become a society that looks like Darwin run amok--where it's survival of the fittest--with the young, the poor, the sick, the differently abled, and the elderly shoved to the margins of social concern.

 

Gated communities so we don't have to see any social problems in the form of homeless folks who just remind us of "all that unpleasantness" of poverty and demand we do something when we're already so busy with so much to do to survive ourselves.

 

And what MzP said--narcissism that doesn't seem to care about anyone anymore except insofar as they can do something for us, and if/when they can't, they become disposable.

[bluechocolate]

Even if this were to take place then I'm afraid it would just be a publicity stunt wrapped in a lot of propaganda. I have very little faith, if any, in a politicians sincerity on any subject.

[Becoming]

....a day of public confession for what we as a society have done that we need to atone for.

 

Good heavens Becoming - I don't think there is enough disc space in the world to hold that one! Unless of course we don't have to do this retrospectively & can stick to a time line. Even then I think LS would need some pretty heavy donations.

 

True enough, but it is just one DAY of reflection that may make space for some new forces for good to emerge--that's the point of Ash Wed.--not to make us feel bad with the whole ashes thing, but to make us feel better ultimately by making us and our society better.

 

Once we start identifying destructive forces, we can start addressing them. But not until.

[hotgurl]

you know I am going to get blasted for this but a lot of problems have emerged after the women's movement.

 

I think women should have eqaul rights and be able to work and yada yada but don't you think it's too much?

 

Too much strain on families too have bith parents working 50 hours a week and then try to fun a household on top of it.

 

It just seemed like when one person stayed home they had more time to parent be involved with thier children's activities be a den mother, know the other parents, maybe eve volunteer when the kds got older.

 

Now if seems no body has any time to even spend with thier famiy much less give back to the community and the huge rub is we are for the most part worse off financially than our parents.

[ThumbingMyWay]

you know I am going to get blasted for this but a lot of problems have emerged after the women's movement.

 

I think women should have eqaul rights and be able to work and yada yada but don't you think it's too much?

 

Too much strain on families too have bith parents working 50 hours a week and then try to fun a household on top of it.

 

It just seemed like when one person stayed home they had more time to parent be involved with thier children's activities be a den mother, know the other parents, maybe eve volunteer when the kds got older.

 

Now if seems no body has any time to even spend with thier famiy much less give back to the community and the huge rub is we are for the most part worse off financially than our parents.

 

I agree with this too.

 

Sex in the City and Desparate Housewives is NOT reality.

[Outcast]

Much better to force women to stay at home and let their brains rot.

 

The problem is with greed and acquisition - from companies that underpay employees to people who must have TVs in every room and a car per person - both things contribute to the 'too much work - not enough time' society. It's not the 'women's movement' that's to blame for that. It's the 'I must have every goody advertised on TV before I'm thirty' syndrome, IMHO.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Much better to force women to stay at home and let their brains rot.

 

I dont think she meant that. A stay at home parent is a job as much as a duty to family. if one has the pretense that it is a brain rot job, then they must not value family the way I would. I would love to be a stay at home dad....but until my wife can finish school and get a $60k job, I dont see it ever happening.

 

IMO.

 

One parent should be home with the kids up to at least grade school starts. I think these frst few years is crucial for a parent to be home.

 

Think about it. Both parents work say 10 hours per day. 8 to 6 lets say. Wake kids up, out the door to daycare center from 7:30 to 6:30 given drive times and such. Pick up kids, get home, make dinner. So now its 7:30 pm and you have maybe one half our left before you start the bed time routine.

 

So whats that leave you? Maybe 1 full hour of quality time with the kids VS the 10+ hours they spend at the daycare. it just dont make sense to me and in the long run I think its damaging to the children cuase when they grow up, what are there memories? No wonder every 6 to 12 year old I know is a zombie in front of the xbox or TV.

 

I was fortunate to grow up in a time when a family could survive on one income and I was home with my mom till school age started. I still remember all this things we did together and I am thankful and blessed to have thoughs memories. ahhh the old neighborhood.....

 

So with my family, my wife works part-time, but we are just scraping by as most people. But I wouldnt of had it any other way. But now, we have no choice but for her to go fulltime. I dont like it, but we cant go on like this finacally anymore. And it suxs cause the only ones that suffer are the kids.

[Becoming]

Because of the oppressive patriarchy of my abusive father, my sisters and I are ardent feminists who really like men. I remember one time, though, my sister saying something that has been true for many of us women: "The only thing the women's movement got me was another job." Grossly overstated, of course.

 

But I think OC's point is really it: we live in a society that for all its rhetoric is NOT family friendly.

 

We've been going through a social reconstruction in America now that we've freed the female domestic slaves. I DON'T want to be Donna Reed vacuuming in pearls and high heels with an insipid smile on my face (no doubt from the numbing Vallium I'd have to be on:cool: ).

 

BUT I see HG's point. I've been run ragged in a career where all my male superiors had wives and think clean clothes just magically appear in closets, and they expect me to keep up with them despite menopausal hotflashes that keep me up and off and on all night to the point where I can barely think. I live in chronic pain and am depressed, and I think a lot of it is that I just can't keep up with everything demanded of me by this society.

In the meantime, my home is in utter disarray. H also works full-time and spends most of his time hauling children around. My children are old enough now to do their own laundry. Housecleaning is a luxury that I don't have the energy to do most days.

 

But it does feel like there is a lack of care in society that women used to do and don't anymore because it wasn't valued from a monetary standpoint. And now even if we wanted to, most of us couldn't live on one salary.

[hotgurl]

Outcast I didn't mean the the women's movement was bad in that is gave women a choice but it did have some negative effects on families.

 

Also men can be stay at home dads as well and being a stay at home parent is anything but mindless.

 

Also having a dual income is more of a necessity than a greed thing. I was living in a 2 bedroom apt with my boyfriend and daughter no credit cards, no car paymetns our rent was $1,000 a month. There is no way we could afford to pay our rent utlities, buy food pay off our student loans, buy medicine on just our income and our apt was only 800 square ft.

 

I don't know one person my age that can afford to live alone. Most people have roomates and if they have kids forget it. Plus not only did women go to work they still take most of the burden of the household chores and child rearing and everyone is so quick to point the finger at uncaring parents for raising bad kids.

 

It's more like overwork parents stuggeling to blalance everything. It would be better if people cpould work only 30 hours a week.

[Becoming]

So maybe we should offer up unrealistic societal expectations for what's normal. And start telling people what's true from our point of view as HG did so well here.

[hotgurl]

Becoming,

that was my original thought reflection for ash Wednesday is that we as a society need to get rid of these unrealitic expectations we place on people and give time back to people and families.

 

A lot of what if being complained about unruly kids, rage, rudeness I think is a result of parents not having time to parent people not having time to better themselves, not be able to give back to the community. The divorce rate hoew much of it is because of lack of time spouses get to spend with each other?

 

So no I don't think the 50 was an ideal time but there should be some kind a melding between the two extremes.

 

as for me I think I need to get hooked on phonics again and learn to better proof my posts

[ThumbingMyWay]

Becoming,

that was my original thought reflection for ash Wednesday is that we as a society need to get rid of these unrealitic expectations we place on people and give time back to people and families.

 

A lot of what if being complained about unruly kids, rage, rudeness I think is a result of parents not having time to parent people not having time to better themselves, not be able to give back to the community. The divorce rate hoew much of it is because of lack of time spouses get to spend with each other?

 

So no I don't think the 50 was an ideal time but there should be some kind a melding between the two extremes.

 

as for me I think I need to get hooked on phonics again and learn to better proof my posts

 

 

exactly. and to add what OC said. The greed and what about me attitude of society is a huge problem too. I see it in my wife, my friends, my kids. Everyone wants and wants. I on the other hand have really had a change of heart the last few years. its not about ME anymore. I have distinguished between wants and needs and between selfishness and self serving. But pride and stubbornness are a huge burden to overcome, and America is FULL OF IT.

[Becoming]

Kudos to you, tmy, for your enlightenment!

[Becoming]

Um, how did this get routed to spirituality and religious beliefs? I deliberately didn't post this there because of the perception that spirituality and religious beliefs are mistakenly all about me and individuals rather than also about society--without wanting a theocracy.

[Outcast]

if one has the pretense that it is a brain rot job, then they must not value family the way I would.

 

Half of job jobs are brain rot jobs, actually. I don't dispute it's difficult or challenging, but it's more a matter of lots of physical stamina, you must admit.

 

I also didn't mean that single folks just starting out can get by - then again, I bet every single single person on this board owns a car - many even before they're 20. Now that is a fairly new phenomenon. So is owning one's own home or renting a big apartment. Generations before took years to afford things like cars and houses so having one as young as many people do is great.

 

Strictly speaking, when you say it's hard to scrape by and then if you were to look at your budget in comparison with someone from the 50s (since someone brought that up) I'll promise you that it wouldn't include fast food meals out every day or many times a week plus restaurant meals plus going out to bars and movies a few times a week etc etc. That which we consider 'normal' life these days is very luxurious by previous generations' standards.

[glovoriak]

If we all atone in our hearts, and try to individually do the right things,none of these things would be a problem, because we would ALL be trying to do the right thing.It all begins with the individual, and the love for life, and others. Think about it! ....Simple isn't it?