...What does it take to trust my wife again, and keep our marriage

[Spectre]

You seem to be going on definitions that are created in society. CREATED. And somehow you seem to think that you've the omen of knowledge?

 

out of curiosity, what definitions weren't created by society? And here I thought all God gave us was the commandments, musta thrown in a websters dictionary as well.

 

Wow...you've grasping at straws, all because I haven't defended myself, and I haven't told you what I have or have not done (bang, bang, bang - watch porn?). Predictable.

 

Riiight

 

We have a difference of opinion. You want to own that P**** that you're with, and I don't want to own the D*** that I'm with.

 

No see, youre confused again hon. I dont want to own anything, I want to have a relationship where the girl loves me and I love her, and that shes faithful to me not cuz i own her, but cuz she loves me and only wants me. Nor do you "not want to own" the d*ck your with. You just wanna own a variety of them so you can pick and choose which to use at your leisure.

 

It's a core belief of mine, my friends, my family, etc. We talk about these things, we communicate with each other. We don't take it for granted.

 

 

Important part bolded, this is NOT a discussion with you and your swinger friends, so why try to impose your beliefs on this man? Seriously, its like a group of jehovah witnessess passing by a house with a huge statue of buddha in front of it, yet STILL attempting to go and convert the people inside, when its obvious their beliefs are different. christ, this is common sense.

 

 

And tomorrow, if I wear pants, someone can burn me on a cross...or did they stop doing that to women a long time ago...oops!

 

 

You realize you're setting the feminist movement back years everytime you make a comment like this, right? just making sure you were aware.

[touchtherapy]

"You just wanna own a variety of them so you can pick and choose which to use at your leisure."

 

"your swinger friends"

 

Grasping again...okay, now I'm gone.

 

No, I lied...

 

"God gave us was the commandments" - not everyone is Christian...thought you knew that...

 

Now, I'm gone. For real.

[electric_sheep]

@Spectre

I don't believe it is accurate to say that people cheat only because they are not in love. There is a very wide discrepancy in just how much people connect sex with love. For some people, there is a very strong connection (this is the attitude encouraged by our society and religon), for others the connection is not as tight.

 

I also don't think it's right to polarize the issue by jumping to the extremes of swingers vs. the ten commandments. There is a lot of room in between ! Seldom is anything so black and white. I also think you should refrain from using slurs against this mans wife.

 

I think it's safe to say the issue here is trust has been breeched. That doesn't mean it cannot be repaired. All things are possible if only one is open to ideas and is not so rigid.

 

@touchtherapy

My problem with "contracts" and spelling things out is in the ambiguity of legalese speak. "Sexual", "flirting", "cheating", "provocative", and other terms can be very vague. I'm really impressed by peoples ability to find loopholes ! I have a real life story about this.

 

I knew a really clever, smart, provocative, kinky and spicy girl once. She actually did make a contract with her boyfriend, whom I also knew. We were all sort of in the same clique if you will, and knew each other very well.

 

One night after telling me and a friend about how loud her orgasms were, she turned off the lights and masturbated with us in the room ... just to demonstrate.

 

Another time this same girl (who was very popular at parties) compared the penis size of all guys in our little group (sans me, unfortunately, and the boyfriend).

 

We talked about this later, and she said her behavior would hold up in a court of "relationship" law, but I knew her boyfriend also, and have no doubt he would have been bothered by this behavior. I'm sure she knew this too.

 

That is why I think it's more important to just have general discussions, and to try and understand the others viewpoint and general philosophy more than anything else. One should rely on the heart in these matters.

[touchtherapy]

E_S -

 

Once again, you've done it! Well said. You've brought me back to this discussion.

 

Thanks for your clarity. And yes, contracts have loop holes and are vague, so I understand you there.

 

At the end of it all, there are no simple answers, no right or wrong, and the two of them will have to decide what's best for them, on their own. At least he knows that he has support...

[Chump64]

I stated this a page earlier, Touchtherapy, but I think monogamy is implicit in marriage vows. Like someone else said, it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. At the very least, someone who wants to go outside a marriage owes it to the partner to communicate that desire so the faithful person can chose whether to stick around and be exposed to emotional turmoil, sexually transmitted diseases, etc.

 

I have met / know a few people who claim to be open to polyamory. I realize this is anecdotal, but the people I know who agree to this lifestyle are -- let's just say -- a bit off kilter. Maybe that's just a coincidence. I have also come across a lot of people online who claim to be receptive to the idea of an "open marriage." They are very proud to consider themselves open minded and liberal, but when it comes right down to it, they practice monogamy and while they like to "talk the talk," they don't actually "walk the walk." I know of two people who claimed to have an 'open marriage' approach and in both cases, when they actually tried to discuss it with spouses, it went off like a stick of dynamite. Like I said, many of these people have a sense of superiority and high intellect because they are willing to "think outside the box."

 

I don't think feminism plays a role in this. I am one of the biggest feminists I know. A feminist who has a problem with monogamy, and who considers her body to be 'owned' by a spouse (because of monogamy) is probably better off not marrying. Feminism is about equal treatment of genders, not about justification for hurtful marital behavior.

 

I agree that the Ten Commandments is not a good reason to use for this argument. Morality and good judgment are not found only within the confines of Christianity, or any within the confines of any religion, really.

[tiredandsad]

Thanks all you guys for your thoughts. To "Touchtherapy", "E-S", "Spectre" and everyone else:

 

Before we got married, we did have a talk about stuff like this, and she was the one who warned me that if I do something like this, that would be the end of it for us. Now, she finds herself in the situation she warned me about.

 

I guess I am not completely over this yet. The trust is gone, and I am just still battling the thoughts in me head. I do believe that when 2 people are married, the physical part should be between them only. There can be feelings for others (Only Natural), but one should have enough self control and have some degree of ethics to honor their SO.

 

The SOB who cheated with my wife is also married with 2 kids. He has repeatedly made it clear to me in the past that, a man should have more than one partner. When I said no, he was surprised and asked me why? My answer was and to any one is that, when I wake up in the morning, I like to be able to look into my wife's eyes. Now, I wonder everytime that she is late comming home, who she is with? Or is she with anyone?

 

If I am loyal to my wife, and do not act on my wants and feelings for others, I expect the same from my wife. Otherwise, she can express her feelings and set me and ourkids free. I do not own her p----, but I am not in sharing partners either.

 

However, for those who are married and belive in monogomy, I hope nothing like this happens to you at all. It is a very bad feeling, and it just devestates you all. It is the worst thing ever happened to me after my dad's murder.

 

Thanks to you all, I respect your opinion as long as you respect mine. And thanks for letting me rant and rave. It feels better to just let it out sometimes.

[touchtherapy]

TiredandSad -

 

It's good to see that you're feeling a little better, and that you found support here.

 

For the others -

 

It is a very big assumption that marriage is about monogamy. Just as it would be to assume that people getting married would want to have kids. It is a social rule passed down to us from our parents. That's all that I was saying. And if you do read the current feminist pedagogy that I'm currently studying, and doing my best to contribute to, they speak very frequently about ownership, and the concepts behind modern day marriage.

 

This forum was not the place for it, so I can understand why there is a disagreement. Perhaps I should have saved the debate for another discussion.

 

Our current understanding of commitment and the purpose of marriage is not static, or written in stone. Laws change to accommodate the changing views of society. It is better to express monogamy as a choice or value, than the foundational reason for marriage. TiredandSad has stated that he did discuss this with his wife, which gives hope in knowing that not everyone takes it for granted. And even though things didn't work out the way that he wanted, it's good to know that there is an awareness there.

 

A couple getting together with the same values would allow them to have a marriage on their terms, which means monogamy. And in this case, that's what happened, and that's what they should stick to.

 

What I was most concerned about, which I should have discussed as a separate thread, was the tossing away of one's marriage because of infidelity's sexual stigmas about women. As I stated before, men are more likely than women to leave their spouse if they've been raped, or if they've cheated. That speaks a lot of our society, and its perspective on women and sexuality.

 

So, I respect all of your opinions (except for skank-man), as it gives me insight into how some view their relationships and the relationships of others. It allows me to operate outside a vacuum.

 

My perspective is that there are a lot of assumptions about life and society that we take for granted, and when it comes to roles and responsibilities within institutions like marriage, they are so ingrained in our social consciousness that we forget that they weren't always like the way that we see them now. For example, there was a time when marriage was only for whites and heterosexuals.

 

At the end of the day, we all make our own choices about the way that we want to define our relationships. And if it's a commonly accepted practice, we vocalize it, and are proud of it, like we would for weddings, bridal showers, or monogamy. And if it's something that society does not accept, we hide it, like homosexuality, polyamory, or staying with a cheating spouse. But it still happens.

 

Hope this clears up my perspective, and if not, we can agree to disagree.

[Guest]

A few months ago I mentioned in here that my wife keeps Instant Messaging this guy (A family friend), and I was keeping track of what was going on on our computer. I finally started keeping track on her computer at work, and I found out that she was having an affair with that SOB. I blew my top and let them both have it. Through their talks and IMs, I did not see any sign of them having intercourse, and she swares to our kids life that they did not have intercourse. However, they have done alot of touching and other sexual acts in the woods.

We have 2 girls, 8 year old and a 4 year old. I could not get up and leave. I found out about them last October. Eversince, we have been to therapy and I am still going. We are doing much better now, but I have a hard time trusting her, and worst of all, lately every time we are to make love, I get the images of them touching each other, and I just lose it. This has never happened to me, but it is very devestating when something like this happens to a guy.

Have any of you had a similar situation, and how do I get over these thoughts? I do love her, but I am not sure if time will heal or I need to come to a point where we should make a choice?

HHHEEELLLPPP.......

i will tell you something if you do split up with her dont fight still be friends

dont take her to court what you should do is!!!

give her half of what the house is worth have your kids half the time each. because if you do end up breaking up dont put any preasha on the kids and dont get a girlfriend stright away its very hard on the children to exceped someone into there family just after someone has left

and i know that it is hard to trusted someone when you now they have been cheating on you but i think that you should do the same thing and even up the score or give her something that she needs dont be so self sevted!!! bi bi