Sex in marriage is hopeless. Should I issue wake-up call?

[Cranston]

I'm 41, I have 2 kids 12 and 8 years of age am in great shape (I lift weights and I kickbox). I also make great money and I think I'm an easy person to get along with. I'm sure I have my faults, such as not fixing things around the house as much as I could maybe. But I honor and respect my wife, and have done so for our whole 16 year marriage.

 

For the past 8 years, since the birth of our son, our sex life has diminished gradually to now almost once a month. 99% of the time sex occurs after she's in bed and exhausted. She teaches fitness classes, wakes up at 5:30 AM and is totally destroyed by 8:00 PM. So sex happens when she happens to have a little time for me at night. She's in her PJ's (the ones with the hole in them), has cream on her face, and her eyes are practically shut from being tired. I feel like I'm the last one on the list. Everyone and everything else comes first.

 

I've discussed this with her many times. She often agrees that it's messed up, she promises to change things and then nothing really changes. Sometimes she tries to pin it on me saying I should do more to be romantic. But I've done all those things. I'm beginning to think she just doesn't think our intimate relationship is very important no matter what I say. She's so busy that I have to plan 3 weeks ahead just so we can have a night out. This is rificulous. Why am I sacrificing my freedom to work my ass off all year to support a roommate?

 

So here's what I'm considering. I'm considering telling her I want a divorce. I see this as going one of 2 ways:

 

1) She suddenly realizes the seriousness and pays attention to this issue

2) She breathes a sigh of relief in which case I'm better off gone.

 

What do you think?

[ReluctantRomeo]

So here's what I'm considering. I'm considering telling her I want a divorce. I see this as going one of 2 ways:

 

1) She suddenly realizes the seriousness and pays attention to this issue

2) She breathes a sigh of relief in which case I'm better off gone.

 

What do you think?

 

I think that sounds like escalating to the nuclear option rather too early.

 

I'd try to get to the bottom of the problem first. If she's working all the hours that God sends and is looking after 2 kids, I'm not surprised she's tired.

 

Would it be possible to lighten her load somehow? Give her more energy?

[whats wrong with me]

Dang, divorce is drastic considering you've been together 16 years.

 

It seems like your wife has become almost too comfortable with you. I dont know if you have done this yet but...if it was me (acting as your wife) I would want YOU to do something crazy, kinky, spontaneous, that we have never done before. like sex in public or something out of the ordinary.

 

my h acted like that with me and I tried a new position on him now even if he's tired he wants sex (to get me to do that again)

 

(if you havent already) try doing something different in bed and see if that helps

[whats wrong with me]

also, something that may make her more interested (in sex) is buying a sexy/slutty outfit for her to wear and then take her to a cheesy bar and let her get oogled some.

 

it may be that shes so caught up with life she has forgot about herself.

 

p.s. these are just suggestions...I just think 16 years is very important

[Cranston]

She doesn't need to do the fitness classes. She's doing it because she likes it. She sets her own schedule. She makes very little money from it and I make more than enough for the both of us. But she works herself ragged.

 

The kids are not that much work at this age anymore. And besides I'm a very involved father. So that's not the issue.

 

And it's not early, I've been trying to deal with this for 8 years now.

 

I think that sounds like escalating to the nuclear option rather too early.

 

I'd try to get to the bottom of the problem first. If she's working all the hours that God sends and is looking after 2 kids, I'm not surprised she's tired.

 

Would it be possible to lighten her load somehow? Give her more energy?

[michelangelo]

just thought I'd ask...

[ReluctantRomeo]

She doesn't need to do the fitness classes. She's doing it because she likes it. She sets her own schedule. She makes very little money from it and I make more than enough for the both of us. But she works herself ragged.

 

Hmm, this puts a completely different spin on it. Michelangelo's question is a good one then, although not the only possibility IMO

 

Maybe sit her down and innocently say you need more attention, time and energy from her? Try to work out a compromise and see how she reacts?

[Pink_Tulip]

Hey Cranston. I imagine you have read the many threads with this basic theme, so you probably saw my post and how my husband got his wake up call. Although it did the trick, I wouldn't necessarily recommend.

 

There are a few issues that I am unclear about. Is your wifes sex drive really low, or is she just too tired? If it is really low, that may be a medical issue. I had a friend whose sex drive pretty much dissappeared, she went to her OB, who gave her some testosterone cream that she applied like hand lotion every day. It worked. Just a thought.

 

If she still has the desire, just too tired every night, that seems like an easier fix. It just requires you both to sit down and make dates, even if you have to come home for 'lunch' a few times a week. But it needs to be made a priority by her.

 

If she simply has no interest in sex AND no desire to fix the problem, despite you talking to her, then yes she needs a wake up call. Maybe going straight to divorce talk is a bit extreme, lol, but then I don't know what you said so far and how much you have said it.

 

The truth is, many, many women truely don't understand how important sex is to men. They project their own feelings onto a mans sex drive and just see it as a selfish, physical desire that they can't be, and have no interest in being bothered with. The more you push her for sex, the more she will see you as a selfish, horney pig. Very sad.

 

Now, the person who figures out how to get women to understand this about men will become a billionaire overnight, but until then, you need to really put a lot of effort into getting her to see where you are coming from. Suggest counselling before dicorce, but if she seems unwilling to budge, maybe the divorce talk is warranted.

 

Good luck.

[littlekitty]

Why am I sacrificing my freedom to work my ass off all year to support a roommate?

 

Your not. You're working you arse off to support your WIFE and CHILDREN! That's the bargin when made when you had children, if you agreed to be the main breadwinner.

 

Now, if the children take no work, and she doesn't work, what is making her sooo busy? I can understand she likes to keep fit, that would help with her own self confidence, but if the children are at school, what does she do all day - except the busy job of 'keeping house'?

 

I bet she's busy with the children when you get home from work right? Preparing the evening meal? So she's probably rushed off her feet do that?

 

What if family took the children one night after school? You could leave work early, plan a romantic meal just the two of you? Do you suggest these things? Can you try it?

 

Or does she simply dismiss you when you do so?

 

I think the ultimatum is pushing things too far, too quickly.

[catgirl1927]

I'm just wondering, of the guys on here who complain their wives don't like sex, has it ever occured to you that maybe she doesn't enjoy it? I know it sounds like I'm being mean, I don't mean to, but how much effort do you put into making sure SHE enjoys it? You may all be very attentive, I'm just asking if maybe there's something you could do to make it better for her.

 

I also am concerned why she is SO tired. I mean, fitness classes will wear you out, but if you do it all the time you get used to it and it's not SO tiring. It just seems like avoidance to me. I can be asleep (not easy for me, I'm a chronic insomniac) and I'll still wake up for my boyfriend, because I love him and I LOVE having sex with him.

[Kenyth]

The problem is that marriage and children brings a lot of hard reality into a relationship. A lot of people lose their sexual identity in the rush.

 

Before marriage, most people live in an apartment. Cooking for one is the only chore. There's no lawn care or gardening, oil changes are done at the quick lube, holiday decorating is a small job. You can sleep when you want, go out when you want, buy what you want, etc. It's easy to do well at your profession and relax at home. Now, here comes the big home and lawn and kids. Woo-hoo! You have just doubled or tripled the work and doubled or tripled the living expenses! Not to mention, now you have to get along living with someone of the opposite sex, with completely different tastes and priorities. Wow!

 

Some people deal with this well and can balance the facets of their work, home and personal lives to their satisfaction. Others may want to still do their job at the expense of everything else. An unfortunately large number of people have very unrealistic expectations and can't or won't compromise one area to balance another. Here's where problems start. You're going to have to talk to her and get to the root of the issue. You may like to believe that she's working too much and it's affecting your sex life. The truth may well be that she works more to escape her home life! What seems like a root problem may just be a symptom.

 

My wife drives me crazy right now. With the baby, one of us gets to do chores while the other takes care of the baby. She doesn't like being tethered by the baby all night and trusting me with the chores, but also feels like I'm not doing anything when I am sitting with him the whole night. She will clear away PILES of stuff she leaves out, and then yell at me for the one or two items I left out. Unfair? Yes, but frustration has to go somewhere. Emotions aren't a bit concerned with "fairness". Our base drives are very selfish.

[reddog63]

Just make her clear that this is a serious situation, that it can not keep going on like this, and that if it is ignored, it can lead to splitting up sometime. Your not a monk, and refuse to live like one. I do not give a rats ass if shes tired or whatever.........unless it is a medical situation.......theres no way in hell you should have to live with sex once a month.

 

I have had a similiar situation in a way. I warned and warned and it did no good. The only thing from hindsight I would have done different is to let her know how dam serious it really is. Maybe mentioning the potential road leading to divorce may wake her up. Just do not let too many years slip by with a half ass attempt on her part to make things better.

 

JMFO......just my f_cking opion!

[itmustbeme]

This seems to be the number one problem between men and women. I am not going to be a lot of help to you but I will try.

 

This is a very hard problem to overcome. It amazes me that when a wife neglects their husbands if it is about sex well that seems to be OK to them. I mean if they are not in the mood they should not have to have sex. Well if you are like me sometimes I don't like to have to go to work and support her but I do.

 

You have been working on it for 8 years well here is the best advise I can give you. Do one of 2 things:

 

1. Accept it and live with it. I don't recommend this but you will have less fights.

 

2. Confront the problem and expect her to change and if she does not be prepared to divorce her.

 

A lot of women do not realize how important this is to men. She is showing you great disrespect by having time to do the fitness classes but not time for you.

 

My wife and I have gone thru this for years. She would get angry at me when I brought it up. She had every excuse in the world. She would threaten to leave me and I just decided to put up with it. She does not work and we have 4 kids 18 thru 12 so they can take care of themselves. I earn a good income and we have a huge home and 6 vehicles and she loves the spa treatments. So obviously I grew resentful and told her I wanted a divorce.

 

We are in MC right now so I don't know if it will work. She says she is too tired and does not have desire so why should she have to have sex. Like I told the MC I understand that. I am tired too why should I have to work and support her since I have no desire too pay for her lifestyle anymore. It sure was funny to see the look on her face after that:laugh: !! I work out to and I look 10 years younger than I am. At high school reunions I am by far the youngest looking and I was very popular in school. If I had gained weight or lost my hair and looked bad I could understand it.

 

If a woman was being neglected for 8 years other women would say demand that he stop and if he doesn't move on. That is my advise to you.

 

I would not accept anymore excuses. In MC I told the MC and my wife I understand she may not want to have sex with me. I really don't want her to have sex with me if she does not desire me. But, I don't want to be with a woman that does not desire me or want to have sex with me. I want her to stop using me for my money and to move on to another man that she does desire.

[Cranston]

itmustbeme,

 

Hey that was a very insightful response for me. Your situation seems to mirror mine almost exactly.

 

It's very frustrating to get advice from people here who, although well meaning, don't understand that after 8 years, I've tried all the romancing, flirting, you name it in the book. I took her on Caribbean and European trips, did the Club Med where the kids are off to kiddie camp all day. I did it all to no avail. It's not like I've suddenly become a bumbling oaf - I mean did get her to marry me once! But while I can see the value of that every so often, I can't see having to spend $14,780 on a vacation every time I want her to be in the mood.

 

And it's not just the sex. If the problem was just sex, I'd see a call girl for a few hundred bucks and be done with it. I happen to be in love and very attracted to my wife and only with her can I enjoy sex and intimacy in the way it should be. I hate being rejected by her all the time, even for dates and for affection. Sometimes, it's literally is as crushing as getting rejected by a member of the opposite sex back when I was dating. And I'm her husband! So when yet another night goes by where she's all crashed out on the bed at 9 PM and I'm masturbating for the umpteenth time in my office or the bathroom - I get angry.

 

I get angry because like you, I see myself as a damn good husband. I provide and protect her very comfortably. I treat her very nicely and with great respect. No - she does not have to cook fancy dinners every night. She cooks maybe 2 times a week and it's usually a 10 minute meal. I cook the other 2 nights, on weekends (I happen to enjoy it) and we eat out or order in whenever neither of us wants to cook. There is NO reason for her to not have time for me. So yes, after 8 years of sexual frustration and emotional starvation, I'm pissed.

 

But I'm very, very interested to hear how the MC works for you. My concern is that, like you, I don't want her to feel duty bound to have sex with me. I don't even think that sex and intimacy should even be a bargaining chip nor a concession point. I already get that "duty" once a month and it's no fun. If she doesn't have the desire to get hot with me under the covers like I do with her, then we may as well both move on.

 

Thanks again for your post and please do let me know how the MC goes.

[whats wrong with me]

nevermind .

[michelangelo]

Have you explored this angle?

[itmustbeme]

I know what you mean. I went into a bookstore to read about this problem and there are very few books that address this. Go look on the bookshelves and most of the books are about what pigs men are. How to find a man, or how to fix your man, or How come there are no good men out there!! I kind of started laughing when I looked through Barnes & Noble

 

I use to get so frustrated because to make a man happy in a marriage is not very difficult. All I really needed for her to have sex with me 2-3 times a week and have her tell me how much she appreciates my hard work for our family. The only other real need is for her to show me respect with decisions about our house and that is it. I found the “Proper Care and Feeding of a Husband” by Dr. Laura and I read it for myself. It was spot on so I knew I was not the only man that that felt like this.

 

Three years ago I decided that when my youngest turns 18, I am out of here but that would have been in 10 years and I decided I could not wait that long. I told my wife I was unhappy about this and she got very angry. She said it was my fault. She is too tired, I am not romantic enough, and I don’t do enough around the house. When I tried to talk to her she would get so angry that I got very dejected. She would yell and tell me that sex is not important in a marriage. She told me it was stupid so I need to get help from a Counselor so they can tell me that.

 

I went to a Marriage Counselor by myself to try and get help since she would not go. The marriage counselor told me I needed to address this and if my wife refused I could either live with it or refuse to live with it, It was my choice. So I decided to give it all I could to change things and not accept her excuses anymore.

 

So I told her if she is too tired, take a Nap in the afternoon so she is not tired. I was doing all of the laundry and most of the cooking so I told her I was pulling my own around the house. I also said if she wants to quit her job (she had wanted to but never would) go ahead I earn enough for us to do that. She refused the nap idea, but she did quit her job. She was so happy! She could then go shopping a lot and she would do projects around the house. I showed her as much love as I could. Took her on vacations and I did start to notice changes BUT they were only temporary. I noticed she would start fights and accuse me of starting them (I figured out that if we fought there would be no sex so I really had no reason to start fights, she did). She was going to leave me one day out of the blue and she would not say why. I figured since we were having more sex it was depressing her so we stopped having sex so much.

 

Two years ago I wanted to do a project on the house and she got angry and told me she was leaving. She cut off all sex and moved to the couch. Her dad came over one day and suggested we do the project I wanted to do!! He knew nothing about it but he could see it would make the house look even better so my wife said go ahead. I did the project and she loved it but it killed me inside. When it was my idea it was stupid but when it was her dad’s idea she liked it.

 

I think my wife felt used having sex with me. I tried to understand the cause of this and how to fix it. I really could not figure out why she felt that way and she could not explain why. That is why this type of problem is so hard to overcome. It is just the way she felt. Now I felt horrible about this because I don’t want her feeling this way. I wanted her to enjoy sex and asked her what she liked and how I could please her. She seemed like she enjoyed the sex when we were having it but who knows.

 

Now I feel used. All she cares about is my paycheck. The only reason she is here is because she can get a lot of possessions and she does not have to work. We got in another fight about a project and I told her I wanted a divorce and I was leaving. She talked me into staying but I really want to leave right now!! I don’t want her feeling used by having sex with me and I don’t want to feel used by having to support her anymore.

 

I don’t really desire having sex with her anymore. We have gone about 6 weeks now and I am OK with that since I want to leave her now. I just hate the rejection so much it was not worth it. I want her to find a man she respects and admires and who gets her motor going. I just feel I am not that man and I don’t want to be used for her favorite sport, which is shopping.

 

So that is my story and I know where you are coming from. You feel rejected and not desirable as a man. You look in the mirror and wonder what is wrong with you. Sex to a man is how we get close with our wives and the constant rejection is devastating. It is not just the sex; you could masturbate if that were the problem. Men feel and show their love by having sex and when we are rejected we feel unloved. Women are not like this so they think we are just sick pigs.

[Outcast]

I don't know why nobody has suggested the obvious - ask her to go to marriage counselling with you. You can also try reading Willard Harley's site about marriage. He's got an Emotional Needs exercise for couples that's very good.

 

Don't give up or confront without first involving an objective outsider to help you two sort yourselves out. There are a zillion reasons why women lose desire and you need to get to the bottom of it. Since you haven't succeeded just talking, it's time to involve someone who will speak to each of you and find out your individual perspectives and then help you negotiate to a better relationship for you both.

[Cranston]

itmustbeme,

 

Good God! Your post sounds so much like my situation, I could have written it myself..!

 

Well I had the talk last night. I didn't go as far as talking divorce, but it was a rather enlightnening converstaion nonetheless. I'll spare the details, but here is what I gathered from our talk:

 

1) Yes, she can go weeks with no sex and it doesn't bother her. But then again, it doesn't bother any of her other girlfriends either (I guess they talk about that with each other). She rolled her eyes at the fact the husbands want sex "all the time". She thinks it's baiscally normal to be this way.

 

2) She's tired of worrying about whether or not I'm getting any from her. She likes to go to sleep at 9:00 PM and she doesn't want to worry about whether or not this pisses me off.

 

3) Her life is not very exciting. Having sex in our bedroom is a turnoff for her. Never mind that we live in a lakefront home with our huge master bedroom facing the lake. Looks like she'd put out if she was married to 007.

 

She then accused me of being a bummer and that she doesn't want to discuss this anymore. This topic is off the table for her.

 

You know what? I'm sick of this crap. I'm seriously thinking about lining my ducks up for a divorce. I came to the realization that I'm being used here. I'm relatively sure that with an attitude like that, she's going to dump me after the kids grow up. Right now I'm an ATM.

[michelangelo]

SO do you want to live like a human ATM?

 

Depending upon your state, if you are married 10 years or longer you are classified as a long-term marriage and that makes a difference in spousal support you will pay in a divorce. Before that magical date you are not on tap for lifelong payements. After that, it goes on until you die.

 

So if you want out of it, get going.

[flavius]

Cranston, this is what midlife crisis looks like in women. Ugly as hell, isn't it.

 

Do not initiate a divorce, avoid one. Be kind and creative, not bitter. But let her live the life she has chosen. Cut off the money! Divert the deposits and shop and pay all the bills yourself (looking helpful, of course)-- make her ask for everything she spends. Set her up a separate bedroom, a modest one. Tell her that big bed overlooking the lake is reserved for lovers, period. If the cars are in your name, trade hers down to something below the neighborhood standard. Use the difference to pay for her new mattress. Let it be a symbol of her unfaithfulness -- let her explain it to her children and her friends and her family and her little circle of spandex shrews down at Starbucks. Honey up with the children, take them on little trips, like to concerts, games, etc. (one at a time so it does not look like an act of hostility and exclusion, and so that she can care for the one who stays home.)

 

In other words, let her face up to what she has become -- just a freeloading roommate. And if she wants to join the First Wives' Club, then fine!

 

A man's commitment must be more than a license given to a woman to deprive one's husband of sex, love, and companionship forever.

 

Many women have outgrown this phase. I pray that yours does, too.

 

God bless you, Cranston. So very sorry.

[itmustbeme]

Yes, pretty standard reception from your wife. As you can see in my previous response mine responded in the same way.

 

If I divorce I have a great shot at getting the kids but I don’t want to take them from her. I work from home so I am always around and both my wife and I think the kids would rather be with me than her. They love their mom but she fears they favor me and I think so too.

 

So anyway I do not live in fear of having to pay her some support. I will still come out ahead not having her around anymore so that is why I am really considering leaving my wife. I am not saying you should, but I would not let her get away with her response. My wife gave me the same response and I lost all of my love for her after a while.

 

Your wife does not have to get up that early. She just doesn’t give a damn about your needs. If she has her money cut off, that may change her mind. The problem with all of that is it will probably escalate to the War of the Roses and who wants to live like that.

 

If you let her get away with her response you will only get more frustrated. And I have no doubt her friends agree with her. When women neglect their husbands in this area they don’t consider it neglect. They only consider their own needs not being met as neglect. I would go into this with open eyes and the first thing you should do is see a lawyer. After that you can figure out what you are going to lose and whether this is a sword you are willing to die on (if necessary).

 

Unless she has a reason to change she will not. I am not telling you to divorce but I am saying if you want to change this divorce will probably have to be on the table. Otherwise she may have no reason to change. You are just a bank to fund all the nice things she has and she may not want that to end. Many women think their husbands use them for sex, I understand those feelings. Many men think their wives use them for money, I understand those feelings also!

 

I also don't think women fear divorce as much as men. If in the real word women half the time lost primary care of the kids 50% of the time and had to pay child support to men 50% of the time and maybe Spousal Support to men 50% of the time well I don't think they would be so excited about it. But at some point a person has to stop living in fear and demand to be treated with respect.

[SoleMate]

Before you deploy the nuclear option, please do read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. She has several ideas that may be effective for you. Also His Needs, Her Needs by Harley Willard. I think you will find that both authors have a very good understanding of what you are experiencing right now, and how perilous this is for marital happiness.

 

It is sadly true that marriage does bring out the worst in some people. They get comfortable and think that their spouse is "locked down", and therefore they can neglect the spouse and his/her needs without consequences. I'm not certain that this is what is happening in your marriage; I would urge you to bring in a third perspective if you have any hopes of preserving your family. Your wife may have unmet needs that play a role here. The fact that you think you're doing a great job meeting her needs doesn't mean you are. For all we know, she might actually think she is also doing a great job meeting YOUR needs. You could both be clueless as to what the other actually craves. And I do see you painting the worst possible interpretation of her behavior. Sure, it's possible that she is cynically using you as an ATM. I don't think it's the likeliest scenario.

 

In case you think that the "use, abuse and neglect" tactic is something women do to men, please be aware that it is a game men play too. Using their wives as housekeepers, child care providers, arm candy, sex vessels, and emotional security, without providing the affection, companionship, intimacy, etc. that a woman craves. Not saying you're doing this; just another thought for you to throw in the hopper.

[tweldy]

...on both sides of the gender aisle. There are tons of threads about women who do all the housework and take care of the kids, and the husband comes home/stays out, drinks enough beer to make an elephant hung over, and passes out, leaving them in a sexless, unsupporting marriage.

 

Conversely, there are threads like this where the husband works, does as many chores around the house as is humanly possible, and takes care of the kids and the wife is busy all the time and not interested in sex. Men complain about the sex only because it is the last thing we (generally) tolerate giving up. It really isn't all about the sex - we miss the attention, companionship, etc., but we are better able to cope with that than the lack of sex. Damn you testosterone!

 

The common reaction is to try to figure what you're doing wrong, but I'm seeing so many cases where the spouse is really doing nothing wrong - its the other who just 'neglects', as solemate points out, the other spouses needs. Why? I'm sure the reasons are as numerous as the people doing it.

 

Its almost like it would be nice to trade spouses so that the ignored wives and husbands can get together and remember what its like to be with someone who is considerate of them and the neglectors can get an idea what its like to be shut out. Sadly, that's just a fantasy. I think this is a path you wind up going down and sometimes nothing gets done about it until it becomes intolerable and you find yourself willing to consider extreme options to deal with your misery.

 

I'm sorry for what you're going through and what you will continue to go through. I don't think there are any easy answers or quick fixes. I wish you luck and please post back if with any successes/failures. I think there are lot of us on both sides of this sort of situation wondering what to do.

[Cranston]

Soulmate,

 

Anything is possible, but I've given her more than enough chances to tell me what I may be doing or not doing .. such as last night. I always come away with no answers. She's not unhappy with me in that sense. In fact, I gather that she'd just like it if would shut up about sex and intimacy and let her get on with our life.

 

Trust me, if she stopped me one day and told me that she's haveing a problem with the way I'm acting/being I'd listen intently. In fact, I wish she would do that. I'd love to hear what, if anything, Icould do do trun this around. But again - I'm starting to realize it's not me. She just thinks it's the normal course of married life that sex should dwindle to nothing. For support, she points out friends of hers doing the same thing.

 

So - I give up. It's been 8 years. I should have wised up long ago.