Sex in marriage is hopeless. Should I issue wake-up call?

[37andConfused]

cranston, my wife's not as bad as yours, but getting there. i want a lot more emotion, excitement and passion out of this marriage. she's perfectly happy just coasting along.

 

Every time I bring it up, things change for a little bit and then go back to the same place in a few weeks.

 

I don't want to break up the marriage, considering the age of the kids. But I'm SO tempted to start a discreet affair.

[dgiirl]

Your wife is right. Sex DOES dwindle in a lot of marriages. But it doesnt have to in your marriage. I understand where your wife might be coming from. I also understand how important it is for you too. But she told you that she can go for weeks without thinking of sex. This is true. It's not to be an offense to you, but right now, there is nothing keeping her sexually interested. There is no stimuli for her. She is tired of feeling the pressure for sex and the more you pressure her, the more she's going to feel turned off and need to defend herself. And the last comment is the one you should take very serious. Right now, she's bored. She's bored with life. She's bored with sex. She might even have some depression. Every time you bring up the topic, she's deflecting the issue back onto you. She know's it's an issue with you and probably feels a little embarassed or guilty about your current sex life and the only way she knows how to defend herself is to make it your problem, not hers. I mean, put yourself into her shoes. If she came up to you and complained how bad your sex life was, would you be interested in sleeping with them? You need to figure out a way to bring up the topic and to find solutions, but at the same time she can walk away with her dignity. She doesnt want to feel pressured for sex. This is very important for a woman. We want to know that we're wanted for more than just sex. And if the only times you are affectionate, it always leads to sex, we just get turned off. We want you to be affectionate without it always leading to sex. We want spontaneity back into our lives. When we cannot predict your actions, it becomes a HUGE turn on. Sex becomes exciting again cos we're not sure when and how it will happen. Atleast that's how it is for me. Sometimes a quickie is cool. Sometimes a long night of passion is cool. I dont want a routine where i can know pretty much which way you're going to toss me and then finish. I'd rather go to bed at 9pm.

[Pink_Tulip]

Since this started with a question about wake up calls...

 

How about printing this thread out and asking her to read it?? You are right, she still isn't getting it. She is blowing off everything you say, every talk you have, b/c in the past when she has done this, you have shut up and walked away. Why should she feel this time it is any different?

 

Maybe if she sees you were serious enough to come on a forum about marriage and ask for help, it will click. I mean, the next step is divorce, right? Couldn't hurt... JMO.

[Chump64]

Have you talked to her about all of this? Have you told her what you posted here?

 

My husband cheated on me. One of his first reactions was that he needed more sex. Well why the EFF didn't he just TELL me?! I know that wasn't his only reason and the plot is much thicker, but if that was even a factor, he could have communicated it to me. My point: Tell her all of htis, if you haven't yet. Tell her that you need more affection, sex and romance. If she doesn't respond to that, insist on MC.

 

Have you two tried MC? I didn't see this mentioned in your posts but I kind of skimmed.

 

Don't threaten divorce until you are prepared to walk.

 

And I'm sorry to say it, but you should consider the possibility that he distance is a sign of infidelity.

[Becoming]

Please check out http://www.marriagebuilders.com and do an emotional needs inventory and have your wives do one, too. Then compare. I'd be willing to bet that no one's getting their emotional needs met in these marriages.

 

And it's not always the case that men are the ones who want sex more than the women. My H just doesn't have the same sex drive I do. We all have different sex drives, and when these don't match, it's real problematic. It makes ya feel rejected at the core of your being.

 

I like the idea of having these wives read this thread. I once had my H read a thread on LS and we discussed the responses. It was one of the most enlightening conversations I've had with H.

 

After you do the emotional needs comparison and read this thread and make it clear that if things don't permanently change by {thus and such} date, you'll be asking for a divorce. Ask for what you want (sex so many times a week/month, let's say) and pull out all the stops to meet her emotional needs as well. If nothing changes, then (great idea!) move her out of the bedroom and draw up a roommate agreement like in college. Then get your financial ducks in a row to start divorce proceedings.

 

But don't go all nuclear just yet. Do make it clear that you are, however, at def con 2 or 3 right now.

[portableversion]

from the fitness class.

 

NOt only did you say you don't have sex, she's not even affectionate. Now THAT's a warning sign.

 

My husband and I have have sex about once every two weeks. BUt we are very affectionate and I love to stroke his morning wood! Kisses and hugs abound in our marriage. How about YOURS?

[itmustbeme]

Your wife is right. Sex DOES dwindle in a lot of marriages. But it doesnt have to in your marriage. I understand where your wife might be coming from. I also understand how important it is for you too. But she told you that she can go for weeks without thinking of sex. This is true. It's not to be an offense to you, but right now, there is nothing keeping her sexually interested. There is no stimuli for her. She is tired of feeling the pressure for sex and the more you pressure her, the more she's going to feel turned off and need to defend herself. And the last comment is the one you should take very serious. Right now, she's bored. She's bored with life. She's bored with sex. She might even have some depression. Every time you bring up the topic, she's deflecting the issue back onto you. She know's it's an issue with you and probably feels a little embarassed or guilty about your current sex life and the only way she knows how to defend herself is to make it your problem, not hers. I mean, put yourself into her shoes. If she came up to you and complained how bad your sex life was, would you be interested in sleeping with them? You need to figure out a way to bring up the topic and to find solutions, but at the same time she can walk away with her dignity. She doesnt want to feel pressured for sex. This is very important for a woman. We want to know that we're wanted for more than just sex. And if the only times you are affectionate, it always leads to sex, we just get turned off. We want you to be affectionate without it always leading to sex. We want spontaneity back into our lives. When we cannot predict your actions, it becomes a HUGE turn on. Sex becomes exciting again cos we're not sure when and how it will happen. Atleast that's how it is for me. Sometimes a quickie is cool. Sometimes a long night of passion is cool. I dont want a routine where i can know pretty much which way you're going to toss me and then finish. I'd rather go to bed at 9pm.

_________________________________________________________________

 

Also this from SoleMate

In case you think that the "use, abuse and neglect" tactic is something women do to men, please be aware that it is a game men play too. Using their wives as housekeepers, child care providers, arm candy, sex vessels, and emotional security, without providing the affection, companionship, intimacy, etc. that a woman craves. Not saying you're doing this; just another thought for you to throw in the hopper.

_________________________________________________________________

 

If you look at what I posted here you can see you got some good advise and please read it and read it again, because I have heard most of this before. With my wife she would have excuses and then I would hear them and try to fix them. If she was tired, I would suggest take a nap. The problem with all of this is it probably will not work. It is very good logical advise that almost never works.

 

The suggestions above are good but they involve you doing everything. Don't get me wrong there great suggestions it's just when a woman is in this mode it won't matter. She views everything that you do as wanting to get sex! You do something nice, your doing it for sex. And on and on it goes.

 

You might want to try a female marriage counselor, but only if it is a good one. I actually like ours because she does try to be fair. She can understand where my wife is coming from and she understands where I am coming from.

 

It is easier not to get into a huge fight when your with a MC. In our last session I told my wife and the MC that I really do not want to have sex with my wife anymore because sex is such a chore for her. I also then said if she does not want to have sex with me or desire me that is Ok I understand. She just needed to understand that I don't want to be her husband anymore.

 

Again, make sure this is a sword you are willing to die on. You will either get a better sex life and marriage for you or you can move on and not have to worry about the constant rejection.

 

Also don't feel guilty for sticking up for yourself. What if you neglected your wife by refusing to work. Do you think she would just ignore the problem until you decided to get off of your butt and start supporting your family.

 

I am withdrawing from my marriage and please don't wait until your at my point! I don't think my wife had any clue that our marriage could end over this problem even though this has gone on for several years. Now she even tells me she loves me and wants to stay married and I don't want to stay together.

[SoleMate]

My heart is absolutely full of empathy for people living in chronically empty, painful marriages, where their spouse won't take step 1 to work on the issues and improve the happiness of both partners...because I WAS one of those people. It definitely feels like the worst kind of trap...the kind where you get lots of emotional pressure to stay against your better judgment. Where being a faithful and decent person works against you. Where unconditional love and caring is punished with escalating mistreatment or just plain neglect.

 

I left that marriage and I must admit, I am so much happier now that I still can't believe it. Cranston and itmustbeme, I'm not saying your marriage traps are your doing by any means. I just don't have all the facts or your wives' perspectives. I am just urging that you:

 

1) Make DAMN sure that your spouses understand that despite all the ties that bind you, your finger is nevertheless creeping towards the nuclear trigger due to years of frustration and SADNESS, WITH NO HOPE IN SIGHT

 

2) Ask yourselves in full honesty how much more you are willing to put in to attempt to save and rebuild your marriages. Don't try to give the "right" answer, just say what you feel, as long as it is a durable feeling and not just a passing whim

 

3) Start making serious plans for yourself that have milestones and timing. As in, "I will go to MC for the next 3 months, and evaluate progress on June 15." "I will prepare post-separation budgets that will help me understand changes in standard of living, not later than April 30." "I will list pros and cons of attemtping to rebuild this marriage and make a decision no later than _________." Get some facts and put some definition on your planning. This helps you be prepared, and it is also a great frustration reliver as you start to sense light at the end of the tunnel.

[tweldy]

I read the original post again and I've been thinking about it. Suppose your wife was sick somehow and couldn't have sex, or couldn't have it more often than she does now, but she spent time with you, cuddled you, was affectionate and loving, and generally was there for you. Would you still feel the same way about the sex? I betting you wouldn't. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy about not having sex or much sex, but you could work through it. I think you've pretty much been emotionally abandoned by your wife.

 

I'm starting to agree with others who have posted that your wife might be having an affair. Since you seem highly financially secure, perhaps you should hire a private investigator to find out. I wouldn't normally suggest such a thing, but your wife has given you more than enough reason to be suspicious.

 

If its not an affair, I have another theory that is out there, but is a possibility. If your wife is getting enough exercise and not enough calories, her body-fat percentage can get low enough that it interferes with her hormonal balance. This would cause a total lack of interest in sex and exhaustion despite being in apparently 'great' shape. This happens to female professional athletes - they get below a critical level of body fat and it can ruin their health and performance even though the are training like crazy. Also, having hormones wildly out of balance could explain her some of her behaviors and attitudes. I'm sure there's plenty on the web about this if you search, but you could also talk to her doctor or your doctor about it if you think this might be an explanation.

 

Again, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Its just not right. I wish you some sort of resolution that makes things better.

[Cranston]

itmustbeme,

 

This is amazing. I'm very grateful to those who took so much of their time to respond to my post. I really am. The suggestions to whisk the wife away to a motel is unrealistic at this point - she wants none of it. It would be different if she wanted it also and we needed to work together to make it happen - then this would be a whole other story. I'd be ready for all the logistical ideas to make escapades with the wife.

 

But I'm afraid this has gone beyond the point of no return for me. I see that she has very little desire for sex, which she thinks is normal. Because she thinks this is normal, she sees me wanting sex more than 1 time a month (if that) as wanting sex "all the time". The bottom line is, she sees my desire for more sex and intimacy as an excessive demand for which she has no reason to go beyond what she sees as the call of duty.

 

I'm now 41, and still attractive to members of the opposite sex. But I don't have time to burn like when I was 33. As such I'm not ready to try and wait another 8 years to see if things get better. All I know is that I gave the message in the clearest way possible and now that I see she doesn't get it - it's time to consider divorce. I hate to do it because I actually still love her and I'm very attracted to her. But I just can't live like this anymore.

[StayClose]

Since her friends tell her that a dwindling sex life is "normal," I wonder how many of her friends have been dumped for so-called "trophy wives"?

 

How about telling her that while you don't want to break up the kids home, you would like to start having sex again. You'd prefer that it be with her, but if she'd rather not, you'll find someone else on the side.

 

If she doesn't think sex is important, then why should she object if you do this unimportant thing with someone else?

[itmustbeme]

If you love her which it appears you do, give her an opportunity to change her thinking. I am not talking about years. I am talking about a couple of months. I would find a marriage counselor to help both of you.

 

Your wife is probably going to say she feels used having sex with you or just does not feel like doing it. Just like you I feel used because all I did was give and nothing changed. It sure appears the only reason they are in this is for the money. I told her I understand she feels used, since I feel used by her taking my paycheck and using me for the money.

 

I want to tell you what happened to me today. My wife told me she wanted to talk to me. I had told her I was separating from her and that I was thinking of divorcing her. I told her she should find a job and get ready for life without me. I feel used by her and I did not want to work on things anymore.

 

So today she tells me she wants to save our marriage. She even admitted that she did not know what she would do without me. I said I had tried for years to change this but she refused and made fun of me so I really did not believe her. She says she understands why I feel the way I do and that she has used me for the money (She said she did not realize this until the MC pointed out her actions). After talking to the MC she now is understanding what I have told her for years.

 

I may give her another chance but if I do she is on double secret probation. If she does not agree to sex 2-3 times a week and start respecting me as a man then I want a divorce. Those were my terms and she said she could live with that. I asked her why she treated me the way she did and she told me she wanted the control. She did have the control and I told her that I would not allow her to treat me that way again. She claims that she is very attracted to me and fines me very sexy and desirable. I am not saying I am those things, she says that is how she feels about me.

 

What this boils down to is I put my foot down and drew a line in the sand. She knows she has neglected me and wants to try and make it up to me. Do I believe her, I don’t know? I do know that if I allowed things to continue nothing would have changed on her part. It could be that she just loves my big, fat, thick ……wallet! For the kids I think I will give her the opportunity to prove herself to me.

 

So what I am saying is meet this head on. Do not accept her B.S. Remember if she loves you she should meet your needs. If she wants to go to the Gym and go to bed at 9:00 and not have sex with you, she can do that as a single person. I let my wife get away with this because I thought that maybe I was not a good enough husband. But after all of the vacations, travel and stuff and romance she got I decided it was time to put up or shut up. It got to the point I needed to take her on a vacation to get any sex.

 

Good luck with you and get what you deserve. A wife that loves you or maybe another woman that would be thankful for what she has.

 

Oh by the way isn’t it funny about you wanting sex “All the time”. This is exactly what my wife said!! Word for Word! She told me “I can’t have sex every night like you want”. I told her if having sex with me once a month was every night to her that she would be happy to know that I never want to have sex with her again. I don’t think that bothered her until I told her that I would be taking my paycheck with me.

 

Also StayClose just posted a good question for your wife. If she doesn't think sex is important, then why should she object if you do this unimportant thing with someone else? I said the same thing to my wife and it was very important to her that I not cheat on her. So I told her that I wouldn't cheat, I would divorce her and find a woman that would not cut off the sex. This sure has changed her outlook toward me:lmao:

[Walk]

I was married for 9 years, and for about 3 of those I had no desire for sex. A little like your wife, I guess. I wanted to give my story and maybe you can find some grains of knowledge that can help you with your wife.

 

Toward the end of our marriage, I had no problem telling my H to beat off in the bathroom when he gropped and pawed me at night. I was disgusted by his need for sex with me. And it's not like it happened years into our marrige, it gradually became that way over the course of the 9 years. I would get infuriated with him for always wanting sex, even if we only had sex a couple times that month, or even just once. I didn't want it. I felt used. I felt unvalued. I felt like all I was valued for was a wham bam thank you maam at 9-10 o'clock at night. I had so much resentment towards it that to this day, if I'm sleeping and my bf attempts to touch me I will slap his hand away in my sleep. I'm not even aware I do it.

 

The problem was, I didn't know why I felt this way. I couldn't figure it out. I loved him, he was still attractive to me, I didn't want us to break up. It wasn't about the money, but the sex sucked and I had no idea how to make it better. None. I hated it, and only did it as a chore.

 

So, in hindsight... after being divorced (my choice) for 3 years... First, I didn't feel that he understood what was important to me, or what I wanted in order to feel desirable, attractive, sexy. Second, I didn't know what I needed in order to enjoy sex more. And third, I felt that sex had become something owed to him for any ounce of attention he paid me.

 

For instance, if we cuddled on the couch for 2 minutes, he would start grabbing my breast and want to have sex. After a while I stopped wanting to cuddle because I knew it would HAVE to lead to sex. Cuddling was something for me. Something I needed in order to feel loved and valued. I wanted him to give that freely and without demanding payment right then. I would've re-paid it later, but I wasn't allowed to delay payment. Massages were the same way. Payment demanded right then. It'd be like having sex with your wife and as soon as you came she demanded you take the garbage out. You start to dislike both the act and the payment owed when it isn't a about free will anymore.

 

And that's partly why I stopped enjoying sex. It was no longer about free will, and enjoying giving to each other.

 

Another aspect was his inability to understand what turned me on. This was just as much my fault as his, since I didn't do a good job of communicating this to him. But he also didn't attempt to find these things out either. I like foreplay, both physically and mentally. And after being with someone for several years, the mental aspect of it became much more important then the physical. I'm not talking about jumping into the more crass aspects of sex, but keeping it light and flirty. Carasing me while talking to me about how good I feel, or the way I feel. It didn't have to be poetic, but chosing words that are more suited toward the romantic would be good.

 

My enjoyment of the act was never explored as fully as his. He honestly felt he was attempting to satsify me in every way. That he was the casanova of the bedroom. I tried talking to him about it a few times, but he never understood. At the time, I wasn't even sure what would have made it more exciting to me, so I didn't know how to communicate it to him. Which meant that I still wasn't as satisfied with sex as he was, even though it wasn't his fault really.

 

I also know that toward the end of the relationship, any time he brought up a lack of sex I would immediately go on the defensive. I felt that I wasn't getting what I needed out of the relationship, and it would anger me that he would demand he be satisfied while telling me that my needs were unimportant. I had told him several times that for him to grab my hand while out in public would show me love and that he was proud to be with me. He didn't see it as important, and never bothered to initiate holding my hand while out. There were several other things I brought up, that he tossed aside with the remark of "I love you, but I'm not comfortable with that." So why should I want to have sex with someone who is tells me my needs don't matter? Who would brush off my concerns when I brought them up, but HAD to discuss his when he had a problem. So we'd get locked into arguments of "but you don't do this.." Never getting anywhere.

 

It finally ended with me cheating on him to get my needs met. I was wrong to do this. Hopefully you won't do the same. Divorce is much better then the pain and guilt cheating causes.

[Walk]

p.s. If you want to break the cycle of "but you don't do this..." then one of you has to drop your concerns for a while and truly listen to the other person first. Listen, understand, ask questions, pay attention without thinking of everything the other person doesn't do for you. You get locked into a battle where neither side will win. But neither side can win in a relationship. It's not supposed to be about winning, but comprimise. So someone has to drop the ego for a while and concentrate on the other person. Once you're able to do that, it's amazing the amount of good will and love that is created in the other person.

 

Explain to the other person that you are going to listen to their problem first, and that the two of you will find a solution for it together. And let them know that after a solution has been reached then you expect them to listen and help you solve your problem. It's a way to circumvent the cycle of defensiveness.

 

Because each side simply wants to be heard, understood, and valued for what they feel. You can't do that if neither of you will stop to listen. Always ending each sentence with "but you don't.." So someone has to drop the "but" from their sentences and deal with the other persons issues first. The point is to comprimise, and no comprimise can be reached if each of you are fighting to prove your point and win the argument.

 

Be smarter, not stronger.

[Walk]

I may give her another chance but if I do she is on double secret probation. If she does not agree to sex 2-3 times a week and start respecting me as a man then I want a divorce. Those were my terms and she said she could live with that.

This is going to back fire on you. It's no longer free choice. So now every time you have sex with her, are you going to believe that she's doing it because she desires you, is attracted to you, and wants it as much as you do? Or because she is obligated to? Because she doesn't want you to leave her? Because she has to but secretly hates it?

 

It might work for a couple weeks, but I guarantee this will not work out well. You would be better to suggest a number as a level you would be comfortable with, and a cut off number that you will not fall below, but then leave it up to her to decide. You issued an order. She'll feel resentful at some point, and you'll never trust that she really desires you.

[catgirl1927]

You know, if you're demanding sex 2-3 times a week with no regard for her feelings, you really have no room to complain when she's emotionally distant and treats you like an ATM.

[Walk]

I find it curious that the OP disregarded the suggestions that related to attempting to work this out. Like Outcasts post. or WWIU's. He seems to have already decided divorce is the answer, and is chomping at the bit to go sample the many possibilities out there.

[Cranston]

I find it curious that the OP disregarded the suggestions that related to attempting to work this out. Like Outcasts post. or WWIU's. He seems to have already decided divorce is the answer, and is chomping at the bit to go sample the many possibilities out there.

 

That's not it at all. It's just that the majority of the suggestions don't really apply to my case. Your case, for example is that way. I can perfectly understand why you would feel the way you do given how your ex treated you.

 

But I do reach to hold my wife's hand in public, I would love to hold her close to me when we sleep (she doesn't like that), I often just spontaneously give her a quick hug and kiss and I walk by her on my way to doing something. I'll often tell her she looks "hot" when we're out somewhere and there's no chance of having sex. My issue is not just the sex. Like I already mentioned - if that were the only issue, I'd get a call girl and be done with the whole problem.

 

But I also wouldn't be able to enjoy sex much with my wife if she was doing it under duress like itmustbeme is doing. Again, I'd rather not have sex than to do it under those conditions.

 

But no - I'm not chomping at any bits to see the possibilities out there at all. I'm very attracted to my wife and I love her. I know that if I leave and she finds someone else she wants to sleep with, it'll be hard for me. Very hard. But at this point, I'm just angry that there is nothing I can do to make things better and that she seems so content with the current situation.

[Pink_Tulip]

As I said, she seems content with the situation b/c every time you talk to her and she blows you off, you go along with status quo. Why should she change? You have taught her everything is just fine the way it is. Believe me, I lived it, and every time I look back at my life before the 'wake up call,' I am ashamed of myself for allowing it to go on so long.

 

If you TRUELY want to work this out, you will give her a wake up call. Print out this thread. Call a marriage counselor or sex therapist and make an appt WITHOUT discussing it with her. Just do it, dont' let her talk you out of it.

 

The frustration the women are feeling is coming from you saying you want a change, but doing the exact same things you have been doing that have NOT created a change. Talking doesn't work. We already established that. Now you need to up the ante. If you don't, you will simply stay in this limbo until you can't take it anymore and either cheat or leave. Do something NOW while there is still a chance.

[Cranston]

You're absolutely right. This is why I'm ready to shoot across the bow like itmustbeme did and have her face the prospect of divorce. If she's ok with that, then I may as well move on. If she's not, then maybe she'll have a greater sense of urgency finally.

 

If she does decide that she really doesn't want divorce and that she wants to stay with me, then I can see going to the MC and sex threrapist. Because at least then she'll be in the mood to work with me to work this out rather than feeling like she's been led by the arm and forced to go these people with me.

 

As I said, she seems content with the situation b/c every time you talk to her and she blows you off, you go along with status quo. Why should she change? You have taught her everything is just fine the way it is. Believe me, I lived it, and every time I look back at my life before the 'wake up call,' I am ashamed of myself for allowing it to go on so long.

 

If you TRUELY want to work this out, you will give her a wake up call. Print out this thread. Call a marriage counselor or sex therapist and make an appt WITHOUT discussing it with her. Just do it, dont' let her talk you out of it.

 

The frustration the women are feeling is coming from you saying you want a change, but doing the exact same things you have been doing that have NOT created a change. Talking doesn't work. We already established that. Now you need to up the ante. If you don't, you will simply stay in this limbo until you can't take it anymore and either cheat or leave. Do something NOW while there is still a chance.

[Ladyjane14]

This is why I'm ready to shoot across the bow like itmustbeme did and have her face the prospect of divorce....

 

If she does decide that she really doesn't want divorce and that she wants to stay with me, then I can see going to the MC and sex threrapist. Because at least then she'll be in the mood to work with me to work this out rather than feeling like she's been led by the arm and forced to go these people with me.

 

Why would you pull out the BIG GUNS before you've used up your supply of smaller ammunition?

 

I think it might be less damaging to the relationship if you were to 'up the ante' a step at a time. That way you would only use whatever force was necessary to accomplish your goals.

 

I agree with Pink Tulip.... Your insistance on addressing this issue in MC or in sex therapy would be beneficial. Strategically, it's a better first position anyway because it allows you to enforce MC with 'The Ultimatum'. In other words, "We need to address the issues or else...."

 

You're completely correct that it's not all about sex. It's more to do with ENs (emotional needs), which are not being met within the marital relationship. Chances are....your wife's aren't being fully met either, despite your best efforts. ENs are difficult to identify because they vary so much from individual to individual. I was really quite surprised in this area because my husband's ENs turned out alot different than what I had perceived them to be. Heck, I was even a bit surprised at my own when all is said and done.

 

The bottom line is that your wife needs to WANT to fulfill your ENs. She's got to be in a position to give to you freely, as a gift rather than a response to demand. Because that's what you REALLY want anyway, isn't it? You want her showing her love for you in ways that you recognize and identify with in a voluntary manner. You want to be able to show your love for her and have her accept the "gifts" you give to her.

 

My suggestion is that you present your evidence to your wife as 'a lawyer going to trial'. Be prepared. Do your homework. There are ALOT of good books out there, as well as internet resources. The Five Love Languages by Chapman, His Needs / Her Needs by Harley, The Sex-Starved Marriage by Wiener-Davis, MarriageBuilders.com are just a few resources.

 

She needs to know that this is a common marital problem and that there ARE solutions for it. This isn't some hopeless conundrum. There doesn't have to be a winner and a loser in settling the issue.

 

If you can't get it hashed out by reading books together and studying at home, then by all means....'up the ante' again. Book an appointment for MC and insist that she attend it with you.

 

If you still can't get it hashed out....'up the ante' again and meet with an attorney to discuss separation and divorce. As a matter of 'pulling out the last stop', carry through. Go ahead and file for divorce.

 

The important thing is that you've overturned every last stone in your search for a solution, one at a time. If it all goes to hell in a handbasket....at least you know you've done your best.

 

When you plan your attack in a series of progressive steps, I think you'll be better able to minimize the effects of anger, resentment, and defensiveness. You're not 'painting yourself into a corner' and forced to act precipitously. Your plan is well measured and uses the least amount of force necessary for success. You still get to be "a nice guy" just doing what he has to do.

 

You ARE absolutely correct to address this situation. Don't doubt that for even a minute. I can tell you after having struggled with this same problem for more than a decade of my 20+ year marriage, that it will be better for BOTH of you when this is resolved. I can identify with your wife's position because I'm in the BTDT club....but I can also attest that I'm so much happier now that this issue has been put away for good. She will be too.

 

Good luck. I'm going back to my vacation now!

[Pink_Tulip]

I agree with Ladyjane completely. She said everything I was thinking, just unable to put in words, lol.

 

By taking specific steps, your wife will still see you as the kind, caring husband who just has an issue. As long as she can still trust you, you have a chance. I can pretty much guarentee that the other guys marriage isn't going to work out. As soon as you start 'testing' your spouse, you are bound to find failures, bottom line. I am sad that his relationship has deteriorated this far. I know how it feels to do everything above and beyond and still be rejected. Its a crappy place to be.

 

You, on the other hand, still have a chance to turn this around before you get to that point. But you HAVE to start taking steps and they have to be taken seriously.

 

Ladyjane said: "She needs to know that this is a common marital problem and that there ARE solutions for it. This isn't some hopeless conundrum. There doesn't have to be a winner and a loser in settling the issue."

 

God I wish I had known this when I was going thru my marriage problems. I felt SO alone, I really felt like I was the only one in the world going thru that. I wish I had found forums like these then. I think I may have found the information I needed to stop the cycle before it led me astray. My husband and I are stronger now for it, but we both will have to live with a lot of regret and pain that we will never be able to forget. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[Walk]

Cranston.. just wanted to say sorry if I offended you. I get frustrated when some men seem to want to place all the blame on someone else. No relationship is one sided. Doesn't seem as if that is what you are implying. Only that your frustrated that nothing is working to make the situation any better. Again, I'm sorry if my posts came off rude.

 

Also, my ex wasn't a bad guy. And he would swear to this day that he provided me with everything I needed. It's whether or not you truly understand what the other person needs, and are providing that. Not whether you feel you are providing what you feel they want.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. And do as Ladyjane suggested. I wish I had done that in my marriage.

[itmustbeme]

You know, if you're demanding sex 2-3 times a week with no regard for her feelings, you really have no room to complain when she's emotionally distant and treats you like an ATM.

 

This shows part of the problem. When I communicate what my needs are directly it is like what right do I have to have those needs? My wife told me to go to a MC by myself and get help because my needs were stupid. If I went to a MC she said they would tell me that my needs are stupid. After all the problem is mine not hers. By the way I went to a MC by myself a couple of years ago, she would not go.

 

Why does she have the right to treat me as an ATM? Why are only her feelings important and not mine? Here is what I told her.

 

1.If she does not find me attractive then I understand why she does not want sex. Then I don't want to be with her.

2. If she does not want to have sex with me that is OK too. I just don't want to be with her anymore.

3.If she does not want to meet my need then she should not have to meet my needs. I should not have to be with her anymore.

 

Sex to men is not just the physical act, it is how we feel close and love with our wives. It is the one need that you cannot get met outside the marriage. After having sex a man feels close with his wife and he feels loved and accepted by her. Without it we feel unloved and we feel used. We feel used for our paycheck and we feel cheated. Otherwise we could just take matters into our own hands if you know what I mean.

 

Now if a woman treats a man like that I guess it is OK but Who said anything about no regard for her feelings? I have been working on the problem for at least 5 years. I agree if she does not want to have sex with me then she should not have sex with me. I am sure my wife may have the same attitude as you do catgirl. My needs are not important to her so why shouldn't I be emotionaly distant to her?

 

Cranston- Please read this quote from Walk because this explains what the fight is over and what it is all about:

_________________________________________________________________

Posted by Walk:

Toward the end of our marriage, I had no problem telling my H to beat off in the bathroom when he gropped and pawed me at night. I was disgusted by his need for sex with me. And it's not like it happened years into our marrige, it gradually became that way over the course of the 9 years. I would get infuriated with him for always wanting sex, even if we only had sex a couple times that month, or even just once. I didn't want it. I felt used. I felt unvalued. I felt like all I was valued for was a wham bam thank you maam at 9-10 o'clock at night. I had so much resentment towards it that to this day, if I'm sleeping and my bf attempts to touch me I will slap his hand away in my sleep. I'm not even aware I do it.

 

So, in hindsight... after being divorced (my choice) for 3 years... First, I didn't feel that he understood what was important to me, or what I wanted in order to feel desirable, attractive, sexy. Second, I didn't know what I needed in order to enjoy sex more. And third, I felt that sex had become something owed to him for any ounce of attention he paid me.

 

The problem was, I didn't know why I felt this way. I couldn't figure it out. I loved him, he was still attractive to me, I didn't want us to break up. It wasn't about the money, but the sex sucked and I had no idea how to make it better. None. I hated it, and only did it as a chore.

_______________________________________________________________

 

 

Walk this is great stuff because this is what us guys have to battle. You by your own admission had a good guy yet you did not want sex. You even admit you did not even know why! So as guys we try to solve the problem but we cannot. My wife said the same thing that she does not know why.

 

She says she finds me very attactive yet no desire. Women are much more complex than men. When women are in this mode I don't think there is anything we can do to turn it around. You even say you loved him but you would rather divorce than have sex with a man you say you loved and found attractive. I find your story to be very educational and more in line with what happens in these cases. The man usually has to accept no sex or divorce.

 

Your case points out what happens. You can't reason with a person that says they don't know why. They just feel that way and there is nothing they can do.

 

The problem is I no longer feel like a man. I can't help but think that if Brad Pitt showed up she would have desire for him. I can't help but think yes it is me. I can't help but think that she would be better off without me. I want to leave not to have sex with another woman but to not feel the rejection anymore. The rejection is what kills a mans spirit. It really is humiliating for a man to know his wife does not desire him. But I guess it does not matter since I am a man and all I want is sex.

[Walk]

You by your own admission had a good guy yet you did not want sex. You even admit you did not even know why! So as guys we try to solve the problem but we cannot. My wife said the same thing that she does not know why.

 

This probably won't help your situation now... just wanted to add, the times I wanted sex with my exH were when he wasn't "begging" to have sex with me.

 

Hindsight is an amazing thing...

The biggest reasons I didn't want sex with him didn't have to do with sex at all, or affection, or vacations, or how often he told me I was beautiful or hot. He could've done those things til the sky fell in and I still wouldn't have wanted sex with him. It just reiterated to me that I was a body with a hole. He hardly ever spoke of admiring me, wasn't impressed with anything I'd accomplished, didn't compliment me on my intellect, didn't use suggestions I'd made for important aspects... But I was "hot" with a stunning body. woo hoo. big deal.

 

In all things, all aspects of our marriage, I felt secondary to his wants and needs. I'd bring up a problem I was having, and he had logical reasons for why it wasn't a problem. They weren't problems to him. So no matter what my problem was, by the end of the discussion, I was the one who had misunderstood, or was wrong. The fact that my car needed to be fixed and he hadn't set aside money like I had asked. (he said we just didn't have it) The show I had been dying to see, he grumbled and grouched until I realized I was having a terrible time and we left early. (he said he didn't act that way.) But we had to go to the superbowl party, and I put on a bright chipper face so he could enjoy his time. The time I wanted to finish my degree, he kept saying we'd find the money later... (he said we would've) When I found a way to fund it on my own, then I never had the freedom to just study when I needed to. He never gave me that freedom. (He insists he did.)

 

I still felt I was secondary. I still didn't want sex with him. And no amount of money would change how I felt about it. And he still feels like he gave me the world, and I was a selfish-bytch who didn't understand his needs and denied him sex.

 

This and a million other reasons for why the marriage failed. Like I said... probably doesn't apply to your situations.