Sex in marriage is hopeless. Should I issue wake-up call?

[Walk]

p.s. I think you are attacking the symptom and not the problem.

[catgirl1927]

itmustbeme, you're right. You DO have a right to have needs and your feelings are important. What you really want is to be closer to your wife, and she won't comply, and you have every right to be upset. I misunderstood what you meant.

 

I agree with Walk, though, that you're trying to fix the symptom and not the problem. It sounds like she doesn't want to be close with you, because if she felt close to you the sex would be a part of that. Instead of just giving her a minimum number of times she has to have sex every week, you guys need to figure out why you're not close. And if it's because she doesn't want to be, then you are completely right to go find someone who will love you the way you deserve to be loved.

[Ladyjane14]

p.s. I think you are attacking the symptom and not the problem.

 

I couldn't agree more.

Your posts on this thread speak volumes, Walk. I felt the same way when I was going through it....undervalued in human terms, as if I was less important than my sexual function, reduced to a "hole" for his personal use rather than admired for my individuality. All of the qualities that make me unique and different from anyone else seemed to be of little importance to him. At least that's the way I saw it at the time.

 

I honestly can't describe what it was that made the lightbulb come on for me. Maybe it was the crisis in our marriage, I don't know. But once the possibility popped into my head that maybe I'd had it all wrong...I started listening. For just a few minutes, I abandoned my old thought pattern.

 

What I heard was NOT about sex. It was about Love, and what it takes for people to feel loved.

 

It's all about ENs. I didn't have that terminology back then, but I remember thinking to myself at the time that it's utterly worthless to love somebody....unless they can FEEL your love. If they aren't walking through the world KNOWING that they are loved and accepted completely by the one who signed on to do the job....it's like not being loved at all.

 

Love has to be demonstrative. Within the relationship, it's got to be a VERB. It's something that you do everyday, actions that prove your words. It's cooking a meal when you'd rather be painting. It's going to the mall when you'd rather be watching the game. It's making love when you'd rather be sleeping. It's treating your partner's needs with the SAME level of effort that you treat your own.

 

I have sooooo much better success with my current mindset than I ever had before. Because in loving my husband demonstratively, I am better equipped to recognize 'demonstrative love' from him. I can SEE his efforts now in a way that I couldn't see them before.

 

All I know for sure is that 'the Chicken and the Egg' cycle has to be broken. I think perhaps that it's more possible to do that when we put the emphasis on ENs rather than sexual function. In that way, we're looking at the cause rather than the symptom.

[itmustbeme]

p.s. I think you are attacking the symptom and not the problem.

 

I read what you and Ladyjane wrote. I don't disagree with what you both are saying but here is the problem for us guys:

 

My wife says she does not have the problem, I do. These are her words not mine. She says she IS happy, if I would just not bring up the sex then life would be great. So she keeps saying she is very happy just don't expect the sex because it is not important to a marriage. Now how can I fix a problem when she tells me there is no problem? Is there a pill I can give her to find me attractive?

 

Now from a guys point of view this is crushing. The person he vowed to remain faithful to refuses to meet his needs. Remember the only problem is mine so I cannot address the problem. I mean even WALK did not understand why she was the way she was toward her husband. How can you address a problem when she claims she just doesn't feel like it? Now as a man I go through the possible problems with me:

 

Do I smell ?(maybe I do but not that I know of)

Is my breath bad(maybe, who knows)

Am I that poor of a lover?

I am unlovable?

I am unattractive?

Physically I am not attractive to her

All of the above or none of the above???(who knows)

 

Now remember sex to a man is not just a physical act. Many of us need it to feel loved and close to our wives. Yet because it is sex to our wives this is our problem not hers. If a man refused to meet his wives needs the women would feel unloved. Yet because it is sex it seems to be OK to deprive the spouse that wants it.

 

I provided a huge house for her and went to work even when I did not feel like it. I provided her with vacations and vehicles that she wanted, even when I did not feel like it. Many of us men really do want our wife's to be happy. We want to be accepted as men and appreciated. I then feel used and frustrated since there is no way out for me. Remember, she says that there is no problem.

 

That is why this is impossible to solve. The women say It is about sex so men are just pigs and all they care about is sex. It is not important in a marriage and if he would just not expect it this marriage would be great.

[catgirl1927]

If she says sex isn't important to a healthy adult relationship then SHE is the one with the problem. I want to tell her that you guys aren't roommates, you're not sorority sisters. You're her husband, you guys are a couple. I think she needs serious therapy if she has this big a problem with sex. But if she refuses therapy, man, you're in a terrible spot?

 

This is probably a bad suggestion, but is there any way you can tell her you don't want to go therapy alone and try to get her to go with you thinking that you just want her help in dealing with "your" problem? I know, I know, it's lying and indulging her insanity. I just wonder if she wasn't molested or something, and thinks sex is bad or dirty. Or maybe she wasn't molested, she just thinks it's dirty. I just can't imagine what is causing this... you poor guy...

[Ladyjane14]

My wife says she does not have the problem, I do. These are her words not mine. She says she IS happy, if I would just not bring up the sex then life would be great. So she keeps saying she is very happy just don't expect the sex because it is not important to a marriage.

 

I get what you're saying, really I do....but your wife is WRONG. See, I used to not understand it either, but now I do. I couldn't see the error in my thinking before, and I'm willing to bet that your wife doesn't see it either.

 

Believe me, my husband tried EVERYTHING to make me see it. I just thought I was right and he was wrong.....so I dismissed his arguments as childish and petty without truly taking them into consideration. It wasn't that I didn't agree with him some of the time. It's that I never changed my thought process. I never changed 'the way I do business'. So, despite having these conversations again and again, eventually we'd be back to where we started. He had never really derailed my train of thought.

 

Example....if it was only about sex, only about the orgasm...heck, you could serve yourself. But it's NOT about sex. Never was. It's about the marital RELATIONSHIP.

 

The marriage belongs to you both. Your problems ARE her problems, and vice versa. The marriage is a whole unit unto itself with two primary components, each being absolutely necessary for the unit to function.

 

Because this is your issue, it becomes incumbent upon YOU to address it. Otherwise...you open yourself up to resentment by taking a passive stance. You allow yourself to be victimized. But just because it's "your problem" doesn't mean that it's not her problem too at that point. The marriage is endangered. That MAKES it her problem.

 

This is NOT an "impossible" situation. If I made the leap....then it's do-able. I assure you, I don't have any super-human understanding abilities. If I did, it sure as heck wouldn't have taken 10 years to get there.

 

Now, I don't know if your wife will ever arrive. Some folks do and some folks don't. But when your whole family dynamic is hanging in the balance, it's probably worth the time to overturn every last stone before you give up.

 

The sexual aspect of the relationship IS important. It's worth the effort. Because it's what differentiates your relationship with your wife from every other relationship you have. It's what makes her different from your fishing buddies. It makes you both unique and special to one another.

 

The goal is total partnership, not two halves that make a whole, but two wholes that evolve into a third united entity. If she REALLY doesn't want that kind of relationship in her life, then...that's for her to decide. All you can do is to educate her as best you can, step by step......and then stand back and allow her to make her own decision.

[Walk]

Ok.. maybe you got one of those women who are of the mindset that the hubby pays and pays and all they do is spend. And marriage isn't about meeting the others needs, only the appearance of wealth. *shrug* It would be a shame, because even if you do divorce you'll never trust another woman again, and will carry this baggage never being able to fully love another person.

 

On the other hand, she may just be ignorant. Unable to understand how important it is no matter how you word it. It'd be like describing the universe to a 2 year old. No matter how you say it, they still won't grasp the concept.

 

If your wife won't talk to you about this, then you are at an impass. She has stopped comprimising with you and is now issuing an ultimatum. She's saying you better learn to live with it. I don't have any suggestions to help in your situation. It's incredibly unfortunate that your wife is like this. And she's going to scar you for any future relationships you may have. I'm sorry you have to go through this and that your wife doesn't seem to be attempting to understand how important this is to you.

[Pink_Tulip]

In all things, all aspects of our marriage, I felt secondary to his wants and needs. I'd bring up a problem I was having, and he had logical reasons for why it wasn't a problem. They weren't problems to him. So no matter what my problem was, by the end of the discussion, I was the one who had misunderstood, or was wrong. The fact that my car needed to be fixed and he hadn't set aside money like I had asked. (he said we just didn't have it) The show I had been dying to see, he grumbled and grouched until I realized I was having a terrible time and we left early. (he said he didn't act that way.) But we had to go to the superbowl party, and I put on a bright chipper face so he could enjoy his time. The time I wanted to finish my degree, he kept saying we'd find the money later... (he said we would've) When I found a way to fund it on my own, then I never had the freedom to just study when I needed to. He never gave me that freedom. (He insists he did.)

 

OMG Walk, were we married to the same man? Holy cow, talk about my past life flashing before my eyes... Doesn't being treated like that just eat up your soul? Like all your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, opinions etc. are so trivial and stupid. Very painful. My difference was I DID have sex with my H. I saw a Dr. Phil once where he said every marriage has to be 100\100, and if you wanted a change in your marriage, change yourself and the other person will respond. And he said wake up every day thinking, 'what can I do to make my partners life better.' So I did that. Sex whenever he wanted. Did all the chores around the house. Mowed the lawn so he wouldn't have to. Did all the bills, did all the childcare, PLUS worked. The more I did, the more he let me do. I sill have resentment issues, lol.

 

Itmustbeme- I totally get where you are coming from. I had the same problem as you. I needed an emotional connection, you need a pysical one. I know how painful it is. The one thing that struck me was your secret testing thing of her. If you look for mistakes, you will find them. And that will just destroy what you are trying to fix. You need to figure out if you really want to fix this, or if you are so far gone that it is too late. If that is the case, all the MC in the world won't help you. If you do want to fix it, you need to let up on the tests.

 

You know what got my husbands attention? He noticed my attention was no longer on him. I was getting all this good attention from this other guy and it lifted my self esteem up enough that I was so focused on myself. I lost a bit of weight, got my hair done, started buying new clothes, etc. And didn't share every detail of my life with him like I used to. And when he asked, I brushed him off. I was more interested in sharing all this with my new interest, b/c he CARED. I am not saying to find another woman, but maybe ACT like you do, you know? Stop treating her like the most important person in your life. Go out with friends on weekends, WITHOUT her. Talk on the phone to friends in front of her about stuff you would normally talk to her about. Do little things like change your hair a bit, etc. Make her jealous and realize what she has to lose.

 

I know I am probably going to get a bunch of replies about how this is gameplaying and doesn't belong in a marriage, but from my personal experience, my husband couldn't have given a crap about my needs and how unhappy I was in the marriage until he realized what he could lose. No amount of talking, letter writing, counseling can do that, you know? Not the best way to go about things, but I sympathize with your situation and I just don't have anything else to offer.

[JamesM]

Cranston, I do have to say that I am in a similar situation. Well, there is no sex. IMHO I would say do not mention divorce if you want any sort of reconciliation. Taking a shot across the bow means war not peace.

 

Sit back and look at yourself. Yes, I am. Sit back objectively and look at her. Now try to objectively see your relationship. It seems like alot of work when you should have the right of sex. I understand. But really, the problem may have a simple solution. Yes, I am hoping that there is one in my situation.

 

There is some great advice posted above. Some of these women have given ME much thought. Cranston, I really appreciate your sharing. This will help others, too.

[Walk]

Pink_Tulip. I had sex with the exH.. I'd read somewhere that the average married couple had sex 3 to 4 times a week, so I tried really hard to meet that average. Like you I tried everything... worked harder, worked more hours, didn't buy anything for myself, did all the chores.. But after a while, I figured if he didn't care, then I didn't either, and that's when I started throwing him the victoria's secret cataloge and telling him to go in the bathroom and take care of it.

[JamesM]

Victoria's Secret? LOL

 

Sorry, not to be offensive...just found that humorous.

[Pink_Tulip]

Lol Walk! I must have misunderstood another post to think you gave up on sex sooner than you did.

 

I never got to that point until I met the other man and couldn't bring myself to do it anymore. Thinking back on things, that is probably one of the things that got his attention also, lol! That hadn't occured to me before.

[used2]

It's called...taking our ass for granite, and usually the light in there head does not go off until it is to late. I've been putting up with the same once a month crap for the past three years and no matter what I say or do or how many times she says that she's going to try and do better, it never happens, and it is sad. And what they don't understand is that when we have to ask for it over and over it makes us think that on the rare occassion we do get to have sex, your doing it to get us to shut the hell up. Now I don't know of any woman who would stand for that crap, so I ask, why the hell should we. Men like to know that we are "wanted" just as much as women do. A good friend had a saying that is true for men and women... "if home aint happy, then home is gonna go some where else to be happy".

[used2]

It's called...taking our ass for granite, and usually the light in there head does not go off until it is to late. I've been putting up with the same once a month crap for the past three years and no matter what I say or do or how many times she says that she's going to try and do better, it never happens, and it is sad. And what they don't understand is that when we have to ask for it over and over it makes us think that on the rare occassion we do get to have sex, your doing it to get us to shut the hell up. Now I don't know of any woman who would stand for that crap, so I ask, why the hell should we. Men like to know that we are "wanted" just as much as women do. A good friend had a saying that is true for men and women... "if home aint happy, then home is gonna go some where else to be happy".