Men and women cant be 'just friends'

[monkey00]

From a teenager till now, experience and knowing what i know men and women cant be just friends. At best i believe the closest friendship is an acquantanceship. But for most friendships to even exist for the opposite sex, there has to be some form of attraction there.

 

most men who have female friends secretly want to get into their pants, who knows perhaps the same for women (but many dont want to admit it).

 

Anytime i would attempt at becoming friends with girls or they would make me their friend, it would work in the short-term. Every once-in-awhile they would mention this guy to me that they're seeing or how they broke up, when i never asked them in the first place. usually im not the girly type of guy that likes gossip/girl talk in the first place.

 

down the line they lose patience and we lose contact altogether and choose to be distant. and me being a dumb fool wonder what the hell happened to our friendship.

 

After getting older, i realized they were just secretly fed up and did/said what they did to get my attention that -

A) they're desired

B) they attempted to make me jealous

C) expected me to make a move

D) only tolerated patience for so long, before moving on and becoming just acquantances or NC.

E) didnt want to risk rejection so instead they played an act

 

women..you know you're guilty of this (perhaps guys too i dunno).

 

Well that's all im saying...

if anyone would liike to give their 2c please do so.

[ddnnee]

i totally agree with you. I know women pretty well too and you said exactly that plus some you forgot. Guy's can't be friends with girls because just that and smart guys won't stick around after being tossed in the friend zone.

 

OK now embrace yourself for the feminazis... they gonna come in here and cause a racket.

[innocent eyes]

I guess depends on the girls you met and what type of activities you would like to do with them. I have several male friends, I can count on them anytime I needed someone to have lunch/ dinner or to go for a drink.

Hope I'm not mis understanding you.

[Woggle]

This is not true. I have a coworker who is a platonic friend. I think if men and women just hung out more together without anything more than friendship we would understand each other more.

[lindya]

This is not true. I have a coworker who is a platonic friend. I think if men and women just hung out more together without anything more than friendship we would understand each other more.

 

Correct. Some people are perfectly well able to manage platonic friendships with the opposite sex. Others aren't. I don't get why people who fall into the latter category feel this burning need to insist that everyone else does too.

[glovoriak]

Guys and girls can't be "friends" because the guy just wants something.He wouldn't be friends if he wasn"t attracted in some way.Face it, guys are usually sniffing around for sex.Guys never know when to move on they're always panting in the sidelines!

[travellingman]

D) only tolerated patience for so long, before moving on and becoming just acquantances or NC.

 

I've had a lot of platonic girl friends and I've lost touch with more of them than guy friends. You can't just randomly call them and meet up for a beer, and in many cases, one of us was interested and isn't anymore. It's not that guys and girls can't be friends, it's that it's very hard for them to be good friends for more than a few years.

[Butterflying]

This is based on experience.

 

I have a brother, and I also grew up with male cousins. They are all like friends to me. I know this is different than with people whom I have no blood relative ties. But it's actually the same in the sense that I am able to relate to them, love them, and care for them without sexual attraction. My guy friends are like brothers, or cousins to me because there is no sexual attraction there.

 

I have a guy friend, Max, who is extremely attractive. He was a star of our high school football team. In college, he joined a fraternaty. Girls drool over him. We met when we were 15 years old. Our parents introduced us with intentions that we would hook up and be a couple. But that never happened because we weren't sexually attracted to each other. He was interested in someone else and so was I.

 

Our connection was the fact that we both had controlling parents. Max and I have been great friends ever since. When he needs a friend to talk to, I'm here. And he's always there for me too. We only see each other once or twice a year. We talk on the phone once every two or three months. No matter how much time passes, we never seem to lose time. I love him like a brother. But I could NEVER imagine having sex with him.

 

I've said all this to say, first of all, my friendship with Max is possible because he and I have never had sexual attraction, or itimacy. Therefore, IMO, two people can be friends if they aren't sexualy attracted to each other. There are many factors that attract people, ie hobbies, work, family, friends, ect. It doesn't have to be sexual.

 

But if two people are intimately involved, or sexually attracted, a friendship is "nearly" impossible. Emotions get involved. Someone gets hurt. It's very difficult.

[monkey00]

I've had a lot of platonic girl friends and I've lost touch with more of them than guy friends. You can't just randomly call them and meet up for a beer, and in many cases, one of us was interested and isn't anymore. It's not that guys and girls can't be friends, it's that it's very hard for them to be good friends for more than a few years.

 

yes exactly...i believe that's the highest point in being friends with a girl.

When one or both loses attraction, thats when it usually comes to an end...or if one of them ends up having a SO(thus meaning having attraction for someone else). Cause the awkwardness is just there if you guys do try to do 1on1 stuff.

 

But...most people are in denial of this stuff.

 

So guys, a lesson for you all that have female friends, make a move fast or else htey'll lose patience and leave your life forever.

 

But if two people are intimately involved, or sexually attracted, a friendship is "nearly" impossible. Emotions get involved. Someone gets hurt. It's very difficult.

youre right about that.

 

to some extent it is possible to be friends, but not 'close friends'.

[lindya]

But...most people are in denial of this stuff.

 

In other words, you personally have been in denial with regard to attempts to have platonic friendships in your own life. You and the women you selected for friendships weren't capable of managing and sustaining those friendships effectively. You tried, kidded yourself that these people were your friends...and were eventually faced with the truth that they weren't.

 

It sounds as though you're externalising that failure and that disappointment by insisting that that it's it "impossible" for anyone to succeed in the mission you failed in (eg to have a platonic friendship)....so those who believe they have succeeded are "in denial". People seem to do this constantly on Loveshack, and I'm not sure how much good it does anyone. It just results in the same mantras being repeated over and over again, as people try to shrink the rest of the world to fit into their own little box.

[amerikajin]

It's possible but it's not always easy, and it's very difficult if there's attraction involved in any way. I know there are some girls I could be friends with because I'm not attracted to them, and for the time being, they've expressed no real attraction - or more importantly, they haven't any expectations of something developing between us. I think it's actually the latter part which really throws a monkeywrench into friendship. You can be attracted to someone but as long as you don't expect or hope for something to develop, you can be alright. It's when you start making that push that things start to get blurry.

 

But if you're really attracted to someone from the start, and you know it, you'd best be honest with yourself and check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[Butterflying]

It sounds as though you're externalising that failure and that disappointment by insisting that that it's it "impossible" for anyone to succeed in the mission you failed in (eg to have a platonic friendship)....so those who believe they have succeeded are "in denial".

This is way off topic but I've been guilty of doing this in every day life. I've always been cheated on in my past relationships. When my friends tell me how happy they are and how they have the perfect man, I am very negative. My friends encourage me to get married, but I tell them getting married is just an agreement to be cheated on for the rest of your life. They insist thier BF's and husbands don't cheat. I tell them they are in denial. Ooooh! That's very mean of me.

[alphamale]

I know there are some girls I could be friends with because I'm not attracted to them,

so then what's the point in having any relationship with them? women are for having sex with and not for being "friends" with.

 

You can be attracted to someone but as long as you don't expect or hope for something to develop, you can be alright..

how could you be sexually or physically attracted to someone and not "expect" or "wish" something to develop?

[amerikajin]

so then what's the point in having any relationship with them? women are for having sex with and not for being "friends" with.

 

Well, to you that may be the case, Alpha but, but...I'm not like those other guys.

 

Okay, seriously, I don't buy the above 100 percent of the time. I mean I have had some cute girl-friends over the years and nothing ever came of it - mainly because I knew that they weren't really interested in me that way, and I was realistic about it. I'm not saying we were best friends or anything like that, but there were times when I would meet up or talk to a girl and I knew there was nothing there. And on the flip side I have several girl-friends right now that know I am not interested in them. We're not like drinking buddies or anything but we may have lunch together occasionally during our work break, or we may have an occasional cup of coffee, or just meet out somewhere and shoot the breeze.

 

I do catch your drift, though, man. I think it's weird when you see dudes hangin' out with lots of chick friends. Makes me think they're either gay or they just don't relate well to their fellow hombres. I know this one dude at work who has lots of lady friends, and as far as I know he's hetero. But I don't think he's shaggin 'em. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think ladies really dig it when they see a dude hangin around lots of birds and no buds. Men go out drinkin' and raisin' hell with other men, not chicks.

 

how could you be sexually or physically attracted to someone and not "expect" or "wish" something to develop?

 

Not everyone can do it, and in my case, I couldn't do it if I'd already crossed the threshold of high intensity attraction. I think that whenever I meet a woman, there's a moment at which I am attracted but not necessarily expecting anything. I may look at a woman and admire, and that may be the end of it in a lot of cases. But with some women, you may start to know them and then something just clicks emotionally that makes you really like that person...I think that's when things get complicated. It's especially complicated if there's some measure of attraction returned your way; it's actually easier when she makes it clear from the get-go that nothing's ever gonna happen between us two. It's when they don't that the situation gets sticky...okay, bad choice of words - 'complicated.'

[lindya]

This is way off topic but I've been guilty of doing this in every day life. I've always been cheated on in my past relationships. When my friends tell me how happy they are and how they have the perfect man, I am very negative. My friends encourage me to get married, but I tell them getting married is just an agreement to be cheated on for the rest of your life. They insist thier BF's and husbands don't cheat. I tell them they are in denial. Ooooh! That's very mean of me.

 

I think it's absolutely human to go through a phase of doing that when you've had some sort of disappointment in life. It's human for Monkey to say "men and women can't be friends" if he's been disappointed by a platonic friendship. It's human for you to have said "all men cheat" when it happened to you. The difficulty comes when people who are still stuck in that mode of thinking promote themselves as advice-dispensers or gurus when what they're actually doing is just projecting their own issues and disappointments onto others.

 

Again, we all do it sometimes...but for this site to serve any useful purpose, I think we need to check eachother for doing it from time to time. LS does tend to get full of people pushing all these generalisations that hold people back, discourage them and create a sense of pessimism about the world we live in. I find it frustrating insofar as I would hope a site like this would help people to realise their potential rather than just encourage them to feel restricted in their choices.

[alphamale]

Again, we all do it sometimes...but for this site to serve any useful purpose, I think we need to check eachother for doing it from time to time. LS does tend to get full of people pushing all these generalisations that hold people back, discourage them and create a sense of pessimism about the world we live in.

So then, being realistic does not serve a useful purpose?!?

[lindya]

So then, being realistic does not serve a useful purpose?!?

 

I think your version of realism and mine probably differ, alpha. Amerikajin's post was, to my mind, realistic in that it said male/female platonic friendships are possible, but they can be difficult to sustain. From my own experience, I'd agree with that. I've got two very good male friends who I've known for years.

 

Those friendships haven't been problem free, and neither have they been completely devoid of the occasional sexual tension over the years...but we're all smart and functional enough adults to work through those issues as they arise. Sometimes, friendship is worth more than sex...especially when that friendship is so old and genuine that it feels more like a family relationship.

[alphamale]

I think your version of realism and mine probably differ, alpha. Amerikajin's post was, to my mind, realistic in that it said male/female platonic friendships are possible, but they can be difficult to sustain. From my own experience, I'd agree with that. I've got two very good male friends who I've known for years.

then LINDYA you must also agree its much easier for women to be friends with men than for men to be friends with women.

 

to me there is no point in it (from my past expereiences)....

[gfto]

It might be possible, but it's extremely rare. 99% of the time, when a man and a woman call themselves acquaintances, friends, or whatever, one of them secretly wants more, and most of the time, it's the guy. I've seen countless examples of this. Almost every reasonably attractive woman has at least one male acquaintance, who is always available to hang out with her. She only sees him as a male girlfriend. He thinks that eventually, she'll come to her senses and want him as a boyfriend. Poor fool.

[lindya]

then LINDYA you must also agree its much easier for women to be friends with men than for men to be friends with women.

 

to me there is no point in it (from my past expereiences)....

 

I think it's often the case that at least one of the people will feel some hint of sexual attraction or ambivalence, and the friendship is probably harder on that person - be they the man or the woman.

 

Human interaction and communication is about the most difficult thing to manage in life but it's one of the things that also makes it worthwhile. If I like someone and I value them as a friend, a bit of sexual tension or ambivalence - on either side - isn't enough for me to drop that friendship....unless it's enough for them to drop it, in which case they were probably never my friend to begin with.

 

If one person becomes infatuated by the other, that's a whole different ballgame....and yes, in those situations I think the friendship has to either start turning into a romantic relationship or it has to end altogether. It's possible, though, to be attracted to someone without being infatuated by them. I can think of guys I know who I'm attracted to, and I think their partners are very lucky to have them....but it's not an issue that creates any difficulties in my interactions with them or their partners. I just wouldn't act on the attraction - it's not that difficult. Infatuation is the thing that creates difficulties and seemingly irresistible temptations.

 

Here's a link to an article discussing the pros and cons of "cross sex friendships"

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss/pto-20010901-000031.html

[helena abadi]

I think it's absolutely human to go through a phase of doing that when you've had some sort of disappointment in life. It's human for Monkey to say "men and women can't be friends" if he's been disappointed by a platonic friendship. It's human for you to have said "all men cheat" when it happened to you. The difficulty comes when people who are still stuck in that mode of thinking promote themselves as advice-dispensers or gurus when what they're actually doing is just projecting their own issues and disappointments onto others.

 

Again, we all do it sometimes...but for this site to serve any useful purpose, I think we need to check eachother for doing it from time to time. LS does tend to get full of people pushing all these generalisations that hold people back, discourage them and create a sense of pessimism about the world we live in. I find it frustrating insofar as I would hope a site like this would help people to realise their potential rather than just encourage them to feel restricted in their choices.

 

lindya, the victim mentality is alive and well on LS. there is a profound air of pessimism at times.

[johan]

It depends how you are using the word "friend". On certain levels, it's true that a friendship can exist. You could categorize them:

 

Type 1: you are close to and spend a lot of time with them.

Type 2: you may or may not keep in touch with them, would help them out, but don't spend a lot of time with them.

 

In my experience, Type 1 friendships I've had with women were always motivated by something besides simply liking each other. Type 2 friendships are completely possible. I could think of several that I have.

 

If I like a woman so much that I'll devote free time to her, then I almost always like her enough to want more. It's a contradiction not to. If a woman likes a guy enough to spend free time with him, she'd most likely go for more. On the other side of the coin, if I'm not at all attracted to a woman, I don't have much time for her. Or patience.

 

In the cases in which I was close friends with women who I wasn't interested in, I've come to realize I was using them as "surrogate" girlfriends to keep my confidence going while I searched for who I really wanted to date. Sooner or later they get on my nerves and I have to get away. Or else I actually fall for someone else, and I don't have time for them anymore.

 

There's a woman at work who is always trying to prove to me that she and I can be friends. She hates that I think that close friendships with women are not possible. She gets so irritated when some other guy she thought was her friend puts the moves on her, now that she's divorced. She's so damn naive about people and relationships. For a while after I broke up with my ex, it was nice for me to have her as a friend, mostly, I realized, because I was attracted to some of her girl friends. But like always, I got tired of it, and it became clear she actually wanted more. She just really knew better than to make it explicit.

 

I feel bad about it, but I told her, and I was right. About our friendship and about all her other "friendships" with guys.

[monkey00]

so then what's the point in having any relationship with them? women are for having sex with and not for being "friends" with.

 

Absolutely. in words, opposite sex friendships sound like a good idea. But in reality it's a bad idea.

Who does the woman cry/moan/bitch to when some jerk treats her bad? that's right...the girly man she calls friend. When she needs company and attention who does she call..? that's right...

If there's any shred of being a man in you, there's no possible way of falling into this trap.

That is of course, you make her your friend from the start, then she's the one that wants to get into your pants.

 

Anyway this is my definition of possible female-male friendships...

Acquantance

or She-male friend the type that listens to female's emotional problems.

 

I think the main problem is females tend to use the term 'friend' too freely without actually putting much thought into what they're actually labeling the relationship.

i remember this girl i used to date, she said she only wanted to be friends. When i said i dont think male-female friendships work out...she would be trying to convince me that it would be fun if both of us wants to go watch a movie or have some lunch... And what does a girl and guy do when they go to the movies? exactly...they make out. Girls never say what they mean, it's all Womanese.

 

If there's any shred of attraction (and wanting to get into your pants) by a female, she will not bitch or moan to you about her problems...these are the types waiting for you to make the move.

 

i suppose male-female friendships are possible in rare occurences. But generally they are not.

 

sex often always does get in the way, im sure you gals, butterflying, lindya often have sexual tension between your male buddies every once in awhile.

admit it....your sexual instincts do get in the way, and perhaps wanting more out of the relationship.

The only way i can see the friendship working is if the two of you suppress those urges...which requires maturity on both sides.

[bluetuesday]

It depends how you are using the word "friend". On certain levels, it's true that a friendship can exist. You could categorize them:

 

Type 1: you are close to and spend a lot of time with them.

Type 2: you may or may not keep in touch with them, would help them out, but don't spend a lot of time with them.

 

In my experience, Type 1 friendships I've had with women were always motivated by something besides simply liking each other. Type 2 friendships are completely possible. I could think of several that I have.

 

If I like a woman so much that I'll devote free time to her, then I almost always like her enough to want more. It's a contradiction not to. If a woman likes a guy enough to spend free time with him, she'd most likely go for more. On the other side of the coin, if I'm not at all attracted to a woman, I don't have much time for her. Or patience.

 

this rings true.

 

i was unable to sustain a 'type 1' friendship with a man i considered to be my closest friend after he'd tried to get me into bed.

 

something about the friendship was never the same. and after a period apart, when we tried to pick up the threads, it wasn't long before he started alluding to sex again.

 

he had taken my interest in a friendship with him as interest in him, sexually, despite me being sure i'd given him no indication. but it appeared that choosing to spend my time with him, just the two of us, was all the indication he needed.

 

i don't doubt there are men out there who wouldn't have done what johnny did, but i've never met them.

 

'type 2' male friends, easy peasy. i have quite a lot of these.

[misrisan]

You know I had this argument with my man recently. LOL...He has friends that are girls. I get along with a couple while the others I'm not so sure off. I have faith in him and trust that he will not go over the friendship line.

 

Well there is a friend in particular that he has. HE's known her since highschool, and yes they had a physical attraction. He confessed to me before we started dating that he lusted her majorly, but he grew impatient. While we were dating, I guess she thought she still had him in her clutches and would throw the sob stories left and right at him. ( You know the sob stories ladies, the ones that get you cryin' and ALONE with the man...lookin' for sympathy and shyt.)

 

So I told him that women do that sometimes to get attention from the guy and to see if we can still make that old fire burn. Well he turned her down flat and told her that he doesn't mind being friends as long as she doesn't try that shyt again. So they are...after 3 years of no contact, she has contacted him and told him about her life, baby, marriage, etc. Till just recently I was very on edge about her. I could not believe they could just have a friendship. Then I thought to myself..she had a chance and blew it so why should I be scared of losing him now? (We've been together for about 5 years and have a son)

 

The only reason he doesn't ignore her completely is because in highschool she was the only who had his back. She was the only who told him the truth about his cheating ex.

 

SO I guess I'll say it's true friendships develop only AFTER the real intentions for that "closeness" is revealed and then maybe a friendship can develop. Regardless there is some kind of attraction physical, intelectual, humor, etc.

 

I just wish I hadn't wasted years being jealous of her....I do see how I looked dumb for that.