Men and women cant be 'just friends'

[Butterflying]

sex often always does get in the way, im sure you gals, butterflying, lindya often have sexual tension between your male buddies every once in awhile.

admit it....your sexual instincts do get in the way, and perhaps wanting more out of the relationship.

The only way i can see the friendship working is if the two of you suppress those urges...which requires maturity on both sides.

Sexual feelings never get in the way with my male friends. Another poster described two ways friendship could work by determining how much time is spent with friend you're attracted to and one you're not attracted to. Clearly, if there is a sexual attraction, more time and effort will be placed in the relationship. But with friends, time and effort isn't needed to maintain the friendship.

 

As I said in a previous post to this thread..one of my best friends is a guy, whom I only see once or twice a year. I have his number. I could call him up right now if I wanted to. He could call me too. We discuss love and relationships about our SO's. He gives me advice. I give him advice. I am not surpressing anything with him. And he's very bold. I think if he had sexual feelings for me, he would let me know. We've been friends for over 10 years and have never talked about dating each other. I can't explain it more than he's like a brother.

[Mary3]

I think that you can have a guy friend if you are not attracted to them.

 

I am sure we can all think of a great co worker of the opposite sex whom we think is a warm caring worker whom we talk to and like being around.

 

The same applies for males/females. If you are hankering to get into their pants or they yours ,then its not really a friendship. Its a lust~ tension situation.

 

I feel the guys who have hot girls as friends secretly hope the girl will * fall for them * but in reality the usually never happens.

 

Those can be those fem guys who you can pour your heart out to but you would not have sex with them in a million years...

[alphamale]

I think that you can have a guy friend if you are not attracted to them. ...

My personal experience MARY3 has been that when a woman initiates the "friendship" with a man she almost always wants to date him. This happened to me a number of times when I was in my 20s. Women I worked with would buddy up to me and I later learned that most of them wanted to jump my bones (nothing wrong with that I guess). I thought of them as just friends but they were very sly and manipulating I later discovered....

 

Now I have women in my life who are in one of two categories:

 

1) platonic aquaintances

2) romantic/sexual

 

I have no female "friends" per se. But I do encourage men to be friends with the women they are banging.

[elijahBailey]

In the cases in which I was close friends with women who I wasn't interested in, I've come to realize I was using them as "surrogate" girlfriends to keep my confidence going while I searched for who I really wanted to date.

 

:lmao: You do that too? :lmao:

 

As for the OP's question... I think it's possible but it's very very difficult and extremely rare. Men are sexually charged creatures, so for it to be entirely platonic, I think that

1. the girl's gotta be ugly

2. guy's gotta be clueless with women (so he's can't ever appeal to women)

 

If she's at least average lookin', he would've thought of bangin' her at some point of time. He may never admit it, but that doesn't change the fact that he wants to. And I don't think that one can call a relationship 'totally platonic' as long as there's an element of attraction in there.

 

In my case I've had women who preach friendship ( and I'm totally cool with that ), but more often than not, they conduct their little 'tests' to see if I'll bite. I see it as their way of gettin' validation. But I ain't no sucker for that, so I bolt.

 

To me, it's this tension that gets in the way of 'truly platonic friendship'. For it to be a platonic, both sides must have totally ZERO potential to be attracted to one another. It's one that you wanna PUKE big time when you even start thinkin' about sleeping with that person.

[monkey00]

In my case I've had women who preach friendship ( and I'm totally cool with that ), but more often than not, they conduct their little 'tests' to see if I'll bite. I see it as their way of gettin' validation. But I ain't no sucker for that, so I bolt.

 

 

exactly. Every time i've made an attempt to be friends with a woman, they've always conducted these form of tests. They think i dont know but when it comes down to tests, women are always analzying.

 

Let me ask, what kind of friend puts you through tests all the time?

 

the way i see it there are 2 manifestations of these (platonic) friendships.

a) you want to get into their pants, they know it, you know it, you may even tell him/her, but they say "i dont want to ruin our friendship" and they continue being your friends without change. there is always 1 gatekeeper in these situations...whether or not they open the gate is their choice.

My opinion is that they want the benefits of the qualities that the opposite sex can offer without letting the the sex get in the way. if you ask me this is a form of cheating.

b) you want to get into their pants, one day the other comes to a realization that you actually do. And then begins the process of avoiding you and even NC.

 

Type A, i would label as the male-female friendship.

Type B, i would label as the acquantance you check up with once in a blue moon.

[Guest]

I absolutely believe that male/female friendships are possible. I grew up with guys (cousin's, brothers, and their friends)and relate to them better. Guys are much simpler than women to deal witih. There tends to be a lot less drama.

 

To this day, three of my best friends are guys (Four if you include my hubby and he is the ONLY friend that gets in my pants). Granted most of our friendships are "in the round". Meaning that we are all friends, my friends are my husbands friends and his friends are my friends.

 

Out of my female friends, those I hang out most are lesbian!! LOL Probably because they are more like my guy friends and there is a lot less drama involved.

 

As I have gotten older I have learned how important it is to have female friends and the balance they can add, but I still would not trade my male friends. In fact...at my wedding three of my attendants were guys.

[Mary3]

Alpha I do understand where you are coming from...

 

I heard alot of girls had guy friends so I attempted to have the " theres no way you can sleep with me but I will be your friend " kind of friendships and guess what ? The guy DISSAPEARS everytime...lol.....If I dont feel a romantic connection ( even if they are good looking, I swear this happened LOL: ) I have to put them in the friendzone.

 

One guy was incredibly handsome but AMAZINGLY clueless on how to treat me because I let him * slip into the zone * out of curiosity. I told him I couldn't be hugging and kissing him because he was not in synche with me ( I didn't say that in those words ) but told him I liked hanging out with him..Guess what ? He did the Houdini Act and dissapeared...!

 

So I guess guys really dont want to be friends... they wanna bang...( not necessarily my words but seen that term used here )...

 

So I don't try to make buddy buddys with them too much anymore because they clearly want SEX...Not to say guys and girls cant be friends but I think the struggle is with MEN mostly. Wouldn't you agree ? She' s hot and he wants her and she wants to be best buddies....guys don't hang around too much after that...

[Ladylay]

I work in a male dominated envrioment, I consider my co-workers as freinds.

My best female friend is a result of me meeting her husband first, I became good friends with him, then he introduced us and we 'clicked'.

 

My brother is gay, and growing up his friends became mine.

Everyone needs a gay man in their life.

 

I guess its all about putting your emotions in boxes, controlling sexual feelings.I dont see any of my male friends as sex objects, and i am sure their idea of hell would be me naked. :D

[Guest]

I do not agree with teh main statement. I think men and woman can be friends. Most woman see some guys as friends, purely beceause they are not sexually atracted to them.

 

I agree in some way, I have a few female friends, that have boyfriends. And at times when I'm single they tend to make jokes like, well if I didn't have a boyfriend you would have a girl right away. I don't take these things to seriously, but yes, I guess there can be some form of attraction between friends with different sexes.

[elijahBailey]

Let me ask, what kind of friend puts you through tests all the time?

 

the way i see it there are 2 manifestations of these (platonic) friendships.

a) you want to get into their pants, they know it, you know it, you may even tell him/her, but they say "i dont want to ruin our friendship" and they continue being your friends without change. there is always 1 gatekeeper in these situations...whether or not they open the gate is their choice.

My opinion is that they want the benefits of the qualities that the opposite sex can offer without letting the the sex get in the way. if you ask me this is a form of cheating.

b) you want to get into their pants, one day the other comes to a realization that you actually do. And then begins the process of avoiding you and even NC.

 

Type A, i would label as the male-female friendship.

Type B, i would label as the acquantance you check up with once in a blue moon.

 

dude, neither (A) nor (B) are platonic friendships to me cuz the physical aspect is always present.

 

But if you ask me, (A) is the type that string you along. And if you let them, you're pretty much a doormat, cuz nothin' will ever come out of the relationship if you're hoping for more. They just enjoy the attention you give them but they don't like you enough to give up their a$$ for ya

 

Same for (B), but they're at least honest enough to start avoiding you.

 

But yeah, those that I avoid are more likely (A). But, frankly, sometimes I do what they do <grin>. It's always nice to have someone pay attention to you. Many of these people who 'play' are married people who are decent enough not to cheat, but they still wanna enjoy the attention that another man/woman gives them. So you think it's cheating? Well, I dunno.... it seems kinda harsh to say that, but I dunno...

 

Those that are truly platonic are those that both the guy and girl would truly wanna puke if they even think about sleepin' with one another.

[elijahBailey]

So I don't try to make buddy buddys with them too much anymore because they clearly want SEX...Not to say guys and girls cant be friends but I think the struggle is with MEN mostly.

 

Good idea. Sounds like yer at least physically appealing, so.... stay away from these poor fellas cuz you might lead them on and break more hearts Most of us guys don't have our brains in our head

[lindya]

Good idea. Sounds like yer at least physically appealing, so.... stay away from these poor fellas cuz you might lead them on and break more hearts Most of us guys don't have our brains in our head

 

It's just occurred to me (slaps forehead with palm of hand) that the fact that I have male friends might mean I'm....not pretty :eek: Oh GOD!!! I mean, I know you guys had absolutely no intention whatsoever of implying that women who have male friends are (sob, hic) ugly....but. Oh woe is me.

 

I'm going to email the only unattached one now to ask the following questions:

 

1. Am I ugly, average, pretty, beautiful? (delete as appropriate)

2. Have you ever masturbated with me in mind?

3. Do you think my hair looks better up or down?

4. Do you prefer my hair long or short?

5. Rate my appearance out of 10.

6. Have you ever fantasised about us having sex together?

7. If I did a pole-dance for you, would you laugh, cry, puke or jump on my bones (delete as appropriate).

8. If you had the choice between shagging me once and never seeing me again, or continuing the friendship but never shagging me, which would you choose?

 

Wish me luck on my quest for validation from my friend. I'll keep you guys posted on the response!

[alphamale]

It's just occurred to me (slaps forehead with palm of hand) that the fact that I have male friends might mean I'm....not pretty :eek: Oh GOD!!! I mean, I know you guys had absolutely no intention whatsoever of implying that women who have male friends are (sob, hic) ugly....but. Oh woe is me.

it is my experience that the more attractive women have more male friends. no one wants to hang out with unattractive people....even the unattractive people want to be with attractive people. Thats just the way it is.

[monkey00]

 

One guy was incredibly handsome but AMAZINGLY clueless on how to treat me because I let him * slip into the zone * out of curiosity. I told him I couldn't be hugging and kissing him because he was not in synche with me ( I didn't say that in those words ) but told him I liked hanging out with him..Guess what ? He did the Houdini Act and dissapeared...!

 

.

 

exactly...it's a sh*t test. women do this all the time to guys on purpose, and it makes them feel good. women can be so cruel...using sex as power just cause they can do with or without it.

The way i see it, sh*t test the woman first before she gets a chance to do it to the guy, it throws them off balance.

Any regrets after he left?

 

dude, neither (A) nor (B) are platonic friendships to me cuz the physical aspect is always present.

 

But if you ask me, (A) is the type that string you along. And if you let them, you're pretty much a doormat, cuz nothin' will ever come out of the relationship if you're hoping for more. They just enjoy the attention you give them but they don't like you enough to give up their a$$ for ya

 

Those that are truly platonic are those that both the guy and girl would truly wanna puke if they even think about sleepin' with one another.

 

bingo. However i see type A can be beneficial as long as you dont become a doormat, and forget about getting itno the other's pants, you use each other.

[blind_otter]

I used to have scads of male friends and spent hours of time exhaustively proving ot then-H, then-BF, then-whatever that these are my friends - they care about me - blah blah blah. Some of the guys even buddied up to my then BF/H.

 

Universally for me, every time I become single they descend like a plague of locusts. When I become attached they disappear like frost on the ground. A few hours after it's laid, it's as if it was never there.

 

That's the eventuality of every single one of my friendships with men. I'm not saying it's true for every woman. And I'm not saying I'm all that, either. I think maybe some people are more rigid in terms of what they define for gender roles, etc. And those who tend to think of relationships in terms of tranditional gender roles are prolly less likely to be able to maintain platonic friendships with the opposite sex.

 

This is just a theory, but I know there aren't absolutes and I wonder why there is an obvious segment of the population that CAN manage it, and those that CAN'T -- I won't take a standpoint of judging and say one type is better than the other, I just would like to hear explanations as to why there are those who can have friends of the opposite sex, and there are those that can't.

 

I even had an old exBF who was a friend, who recently got married and STILL calls me at 1am/2am/5am when W is working. WTF is that?

[alphamale]

I even had an old exBF who was a friend, who recently got married and STILL calls me at 1am/2am/5am when W is working. WTF is that?

THAT....is inappropriate behaviour. You should actively discourage it.

[blind_otter]

THAT....is inappropriate behaviour. You should actively discourage it.

 

Ironically I never answer his calls and haven't spoken with him in ages. He leaves messages like "This is Otter and I never answer my phone." -- that kinda s***. It makes for interesting answering machines listening the next day.

[alphamale]

He leaves messages like "This is Otter and I never answer my phone." -- that kinda s***.

sounds like a wierdo to me

[lindya]

This is just a theory, but I know there aren't absolutes and I wonder why there is an obvious segment of the population that CAN manage it, and those that CAN'T -- I won't take a standpoint of judging and say one type is better than the other, I just would like to hear explanations as to why there are those who can have friends of the opposite sex, and there are those that can't.

 

I think in most platonic friendships there will be a point when some sort of pass is made..even if the main purpose of that is just to confirm the status of the friendship.

 

It's difficult to define, but there's a point when sexual tension starts to set in with a guy you're on friendly terms with, and when I sense that happening I'll work really hard to remove the sexual tension (unless I want things to go further) before it reaches a point where the guy is likely to make a move. I'm not quite sure what it is I do, but it involves body language and voice tone. The point is to give that non-verbal message before the guy has made a pass, so that he gets that you're not sexually interested without too much offence being caused. Once someone openly makes a pass and you've rebuffed it, it's a lot harder to recover a friendship because of all the embarrassment and bruised egos involved.

 

My two closest male friends did make passes early on in the friendships, but they were drunk - so it was easier to dismiss as "just one of those drunken ideas". I've found that once they or I are involved with someone else, the friendships do lapse somewhat. You either form a friendship with the new partner too, or you back off and let them get on with it - because however platonic those friendship are, they can put a strain on new relationships.

 

Male/female friendships definitely are more complicated, and it would be wrong to deny that the sexual tension issues don't arise. Whether you get over them depends on how valuable the friendship is to both of you, I think.

 

Genuine friendships I've had with guys have arisen more through work, study or staying in touch with people I met when I was travelling. The whole business of sleeping in mixed dorms when you go off on a spell of travelling does, I think, make you more amenable to platonic male/female friendshipand possibly in the UK it's more normal to have those friendships? I'm not sure.

 

One drawback is, of course, if you both want to take it up a level, the friendship thing can make that quite difficult. With my last 2 bfs it took a while for things to get off the ground because of all the uncertain "does he/she just see me as a friend?" thing.

[blind_otter]

Perhaps it's that I can't really tolerate the ambiguous nature of frinedships that involve passing sexual tension.

 

The thing is that when I was younger I very stringently defended the opposite position. I think I was more deluded about the types of platonic male friendships I had. Especially after the whole A-Team fiasco. Which is floating around on here.

[kitten chick]

I think it's absolutely human to go through a phase of doing that when you've had some sort of disappointment in life. It's human for Monkey to say "men and women can't be friends" if he's been disappointed by a platonic friendship. It's human for you to have said "all men cheat" when it happened to you. The difficulty comes when people who are still stuck in that mode of thinking promote themselves as advice-dispensers or gurus when what they're actually doing is just projecting their own issues and disappointments onto others.

 

Again, we all do it sometimes...but for this site to serve any useful purpose, I think we need to check eachother for doing it from time to time. LS does tend to get full of people pushing all these generalisations that hold people back, discourage them and create a sense of pessimism about the world we live in. I find it frustrating insofar as I would hope a site like this would help people to realise their potential rather than just encourage them to feel restricted in their choices.

Sorry Lindya but I'm going to have to also say that this is realism. Overgeneralizations like your example "all men cheat" are not true but more specific generalizations like "most men in my area cheat" are likely to be true. We all have our own experiences and the experiences of those around us as the litmus test. Do you know how many people have told me to leave where I live because there are very few decent people here and the abilty to live a "good" life is virtually impossible? I wouldn't even be able to begin to count, and some are even from this board. It's a generalization but the logic holds a lot of water based on a number of underlying factors and the experiences of many.

 

As far as being friends with someone of the opposite sex. I think that the overgeneralization of "all men can not be friends with all women" and vice versa is just untrue. There are men and women that can't be friends but it's not true of all. I have had many male friends in my life. A good chunk of them struggled with sexual undertones at some point but not all of them. I can say that I have had 3 friendships in my adult life with men that are absolutely platonic. 2 of these men are married/engaged so it is pretty clear on both of our ends that nothing will ever happen and seeing as there isn't any chemistry I wouldn't want anything to happen. I know they feel the same way.

[lindya]

Sorry Lindya but I'm going to have to also say that this is realism. Overgeneralizations like your example "all men cheat" are not true but more specific generalizations like "most men in my area cheat" are likely to be true. We all have our own experiences and the experiences of those around us as the litmus test. Do you know how many people have told me to leave where I live because there are very few decent people here and the abilty to live a "good" life is virtually impossible? I wouldn't even be able to begin to count, and some are even from this board.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm one of the people who's suggested you think about moving outwith NYC, Kitten Chick. I'm sure it's a fantastically fast-paced party city - but as far as finding a partner for a stable long term relationship goes it doesn't seem like the most appropriate source.

[elijahBailey]

It's just occurred to me (slaps forehead with palm of hand) that the fact that I have male friends might mean I'm....not pretty :eek: Oh GOD!!! I mean, I know you guys had absolutely no intention whatsoever of implying that women who have male friends are (sob, hic) ugly....but. Oh woe is me.

 

Naw.. naw.. Lindya, lindya, lindya...... That don't mean yer ugly.... relax and breath easy now girl

 

All it means when you've male friends is that.... you might think they're platonic, and they tell you it's platonic, but give them half a chance and they'll probably start hitting on you.

 

Pretty women have many male friends like AM said. And pretty women will vehemently stress that these friendships are platonic, but if they can mind-read their male friends, I am almost certain they'll be surprised. Sorry, but it's true We don't usually think with our intellectual head

 

I'm going to email the only unattached one now to ask the following questions:

 

1. Am I ugly, average, pretty, beautiful? (delete as appropriate)

2. Have you ever masturbated with me in mind?

3. Do you think my hair looks better up or down?

4. Do you prefer my hair long or short?

5. Rate my appearance out of 10.

6. Have you ever fantasised about us having sex together?

7. If I did a pole-dance for you, would you laugh, cry, puke or jump on my bones (delete as appropriate).

8. If you had the choice between shagging me once and never seeing me again, or continuing the friendship but never shagging me, which would you choose?

 

Wish me luck on my quest for validation from my friend. I'll keep you guys posted on the response!

 

Forget it. Da guy won't give you an honest answer.

 

He'll answer...

1. pretty

2. No

3. Both are just as good

4. Both are just as good

5. >8

6. Never. We're friends

7. Laugh or puke

8. Eternal friendship

 

But I'll do you a favor and give you the what-guys-really-think-but-wont-say answers. It's sort of a generic male response if the woman is above average in looks. It goes like this....

1. (I'll skip this one)

2. yes

3. Both are just as good

4. Both are just as good

5. (I'll skip this one)

6. yes

7. jump your bones

8. shag once and good-bye.

[kitten chick]

I'm pretty sure I'm one of the people who's suggested you think about moving outwith NYC, Kitten Chick. I'm sure it's a fantastically fast-paced party city - but as far as finding a partner for a stable long term relationship goes it doesn't seem like the most appropriate source.

I actually don't recall but I believe you. Many people have said this to me I honestly can't keep track. Personally, I'm no longer looking for a stable long term relationship so it's not really an issue. I have also never dated anyone significantly that lived in the city, all of my exs are from the suburbs. And yes, one of them was friends with me for a long time before we started dating. While my intentions were platonic, his were not.

[blind_otter]

I had a great male friend, Sgt. Bosco I called him on here (a la A Team). I think that was his nickname. Maybe it was Murdoch. Whatever. I 'll call him Bosco for now.

 

Bosco and I were such good friends. When he first met me I had just lost the baby from psycho ex, so I was in a sorry state - still chubby from being pregnant, and woefully depressed. He was so nice. We talked a lot, about relationship problems, we went out to eat and saw movies together. Over time I regained my usual physique.

 

Once he was over at my house, watching a movie. I go to the fridge for a beverage and happen to spend time getting ice from the freezer, which makes my nipples hard. I stood in front of the tv talking to him in a tank top for a second, then I turn to set my drink down.

 

When I turned around, he had his hand down his pants massaging his weenis. It was an awkward moment for everyone involved.

 

So much for platonic friends. I think I just caught him in the act. Plus the tank top was thin, but I thought we were just friends. So why would he even respond to my thin shirt other than to joke, hey it's cold in heeeeere! That would have been funny.