Off topic : Other things.

[Discussion]

I'd like to make it absolutely clear from the off THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT IN FAVOUR OF TERRORISM.

 

The news from NY is truly shocking and sickening however i have a few comments to make

 

The act of terrorism is simply an extreme reflection of what is a huge & growing worldwide resentment towards US & everything it stands for.

 

It might be that a coordinated & highly symbolic attack at the heart of US has more immediate emotional impact but why does that make it any worse than the similarly horrific crimes against humanity lasting weeks or even years that America has carried out over the last 50 years? To give just a couple of examples:

 

The blanket bombing of Cambodia at the end of the VN war when the US dropped more bombs in the space of a year than they dropped in the whole of the second world war, most of them on civilians and resulting in the ( American armed & trained) rise to power of the Khmer Rouge.

 

The massacre of surrendered & retreating Iraqi soldiers & civilians at the end of the Gulf war.

 

No, if anything US ARROGANCE cause this

 

Arrogance : to believe that the rest of the world will accept America's global cultural imperialism, America's political domineering & America's military bullying without any kind of backlash

 

Arrogance : At constantly taking the moral political ' high ground' yet it's not even safe to walk the American streets at night & many American inner cities resemble war zones

 

Arrogance : to demonise any people who choose to live a different way of life other than one which follows " the American way"

 

Arrogance : to sell more weapons globally than the whole of the rest of the world & in many of the cases train the buyers to use them, and then become outraged when those same weapons are used against them.

 

Arrogance : they're still too ignorance to accept what's right in front of they're faces. At this moment in history US is probably the most hated nation on earth

 

Within an hour of the news hitting the TV screens fingers were already pointing in the direction of the middle east but wouldn't it be interesting, when they finally decide who to place the blame on, that it turns out to be another American extremist group. It could, in actual fact be anyone one of thousands of different organizations worldwide

[Tony T]

You make some good points. And don't forget the former decorated American Marine, Timothy McVeigh, who bombed the Oklahoma City Federal Building because he hated America.

 

There may be some things I dislike about this country and probably its violence and lack of safety on the streets is the most serious of them. But, ounce for ounce, it's the best country around.

 

Other countries don't like us because they are either jealous of our freedoms or wealth or they simply don't understand us. Frankly, there's a lot I don't understand either.

 

But I do understand that it's wrong to use terrorism and other forms of violence to express my dislike for ideas which I personally don't embrace.

 

Terrorism and war is not something new. Until humans evolve all of the animal out of them, there will be war, jealousy, hatred, violence, prejudice, etc.

 

It's not an American thing...it's a human thing. Forget about America. Look at other parts of the world, Israel and Palestine, the Greeks and Turks on Cypress, the protestants and Catholics in Ireland, Iraq and adjoining Arab states, Israel and Egypt, etc., etc. There's a lot more craziness in foreign lands directed at other foreign lands and the U.S. has nothing to do with it.

 

You are also quite right, the responsibility for Tuesday's attack on the World Trade Center could be the work of any one of thousands of small organized factions worldwide. But these, in no way, are representative of a great hate of large numbers of people for America.

 

It's just that the one's who do hate America, do so with a passion. That passion will never justify their violence and certainly doesn't further any cause they may have.

[Artlover]

It's quite easy to be analytical and stand on your political soapbox when you're most likely somewhere else in the US. Somewhere far away from NYC. I have people who are MIA at the moment. Are the policies of the US the fault of my two friends?

 

I find your grandstanding at this moment (the same day that thousands of INNOCENT people died) to be in poor taste.

You make some good points. And don't forget the former decorated American Marine, Timothy McVeigh, who bombed the Oklahoma City Federal Building because he hated America. There may be some things I dislike about this country and probably its violence and lack of safety on the streets is the most serious of them. But, ounce for ounce, it's the best country around. Other countries don't like us because they are either jealous of our freedoms or wealth or they simply don't understand us. Frankly, there's a lot I don't understand either. But I do understand that it's wrong to use terrorism and other forms of violence to express my dislike for ideas which I personally don't embrace. Terrorism and war is not something new. Until humans evolve all of the animal out of them, there will be war, jealousy, hatred, violence, prejudice, etc. It's not an American thing...it's a human thing. Forget about America. Look at other parts of the world, Israel and Palestine, the Greeks and Turks on Cypress, the protestants and Catholics in Ireland, Iraq and adjoining Arab states, Israel and Egypt, etc., etc. There's a lot more craziness in foreign lands directed at other foreign lands and the U.S. has nothing to do with it. You are also quite right, the responsibility for Tuesday's attack on the World Trade Center could be the work of any one of thousands of small organized factions worldwide. But these, in no way, are representative of a great hate of large numbers of people for America. It's just that the one's who do hate America, do so with a passion. That passion will never justify their violence and certainly doesn't further any cause they may have.

[Discussion]

even assisting, Israel in its attacks on Palestine. And don't forget, there are more Palestinian deaths than Israel deaths in this conflict, and it all began in 1947 with US/UK/Israel being the PERPETRATOR, the first to initiate the aggression!!

[Artlover]

Obviously you didn't hear a word I said. I have two FRIENDS that worked at the WTC and could be dead. If that means nothing to you as a human being, then I can't help you.

even assisting, Israel in its attacks on Palestine. And don't forget, there are more Palestinian deaths than Israel deaths in this conflict, and it all began in 1947 with US/UK/Israel being the PERPETRATOR, the first to initiate the aggression!!

 

[witchbreed]

I heard you Artlover and I do feel with you. Feel with all the victims, direct and indirect of this attack. But there is other victims besides the ones injured and dead in NYC and their friends and relatives.

 

There is all the people with arab or other middle east origin, be it in the States or other western countries, who will be made to feel of being part of a bad culture, who will be prejudiced for their origins, their religion. I cant stand fanatics myself, but we have besides the fanatics from the islamic world, loads of fanatics from other believes and when dictators or their counter-parts in South-America commits acts of inhumanity who blames christianity? If Israel commits acts of inhumanity who blames Judaism? If members of Hinduism or some tribal African religion commit those acts, who blames their religion? So my heart goes out to all the decent islamic people too, who will be as deeply shocked as the rest of the world and who furthermore will be held responsible by a lot of people, who just need a handy scapegoat to vent their anger and frustration on.

 

So my heart feels with all the victims and I pray that no further innocents will have to suffer, be it by more terrorist attacks or by the retaliation for those attacks.

 

Furthermore, we have to keep in mind, that the taliban were an instrument of the Pakistani secret services, armed and instructed by them - to fight against the then enemy Soviet Union - and the Pakistani secret services were the "long arm" of the American secret services. So in a way, we are responsible for their being, for the power they now have. And now it falls back on us!

 

Obviously you didn't hear a word I said. I have two FRIENDS that worked at the WTC and could be dead. If that means nothing to you as a human being, then I can't help you.

[Tony T]

I am deeply sorry for your friends who may have perished in the crash, fire and implosion at the World Trade Center. I do not find this thread insensitive to those deaths.

 

However, I personally feel you may not be emotionally ready to be participating in discussion of this topic here and with such a horrendous loss at hand and in your emotional state perhaps you should be with support...family and friends...rather than on this or any message board or Internet page...juding from your responses here.

 

These posts are not at all meant to be insensitive to those deaths. For your information, I have five friends and aquaintenances, all employees of Morgan Stanley, who most likely died at the World Trade Center yesterday. While tragic, their deaths were a symbol and a symptom of a much greater threat that faces each one of us all over the world each and every minute, while we are awake and while we sleep.

 

In my opinion, it is much better to talk about it, render opinions, and share feelings than to remain silent and pay tribute to those who have killed our friends.

[witchbreed]

Tony, I just love your answer.

I am deeply sorry for your friends who may have perished in the crash, fire and implosion at the World Trade Center. I do not find this thread insensitive to those deaths. However, I personally feel you may not be emotionally ready to be participating in discussion of this topic here and with such a horrendous loss at hand and in your emotional state perhaps you should be with support...family and friends...rather than on this or any message board or Internet page...juding from your responses here. These posts are not at all meant to be insensitive to those deaths. For your information, I have five friends and aquaintenances, all employees of Morgan Stanley, who most likely died at the World Trade Center yesterday. While tragic, their deaths were a symbol and a symptom of a much greater threat that faces each one of us all over the world each and every minute, while we are awake and while we sleep. In my opinion, it is much better to talk about it, render opinions, and share feelings than to remain silent and pay tribute to those who have killed our friends.

[Artlover]

Thank you for your kind words, Tony. However, I get the sense you're inferring that I might be too "hysterical" right now to post here. I don't think that's the case. I'm simply stating that innocent people should not have to pay for their government's actions. And that's anywhere. ANY country.

 

My comments weren't that different from Daisy's above. Is she hysterical too? Or is she just stating her opinion?

Tony, I just love your answer.