So this is our final decision...

[ConfusedGal]

You need to have followed my previous threads here to know what I am talking about...

 

Well, Friday was an awful day. As predicted, my mom was in the ER, but there was nothing wrong with her. She was just sitting there shaking and screaming (SCREAMING) I want my daughter, I want my daughter, my daughter is goneee. THe nurses knew this was all an act. HUsband talked to my Dad about it also. OF course Dad got defensive but he is her husband...Anyways, it was a very difficult situation.

 

After that, we decided maybe the best thing is to move. On Saturday, mom called, apologized a lot (but it was pretty fake.) Anyways, we still thought we should go cause she is nuts. But then we had a LONG discussion with hubby's brother in law, whom Hubby is very close to. We needed the advice of someone older and maybe wiser. Anyways, his advice REALLY helped. He said his mom is nuts also. (She is.) But he was like, look, if you can handle her, then it makes NO sense to move.

 

Right now, you need the money. You need to build a strong base money wise and career wise so you can do whatever you want later on. So you literally need to keep telling yourself she is nuts, and by what she did on Friday, it pretty much proved that she is. So go along with it. Go along with her. When she says anything, just brush it off in your mind like "Its ok.

 

SHe is mentally ill. Let her say what she wants and give her some extra love and attention." Even hubby has decided that he will do that as well. Whenever he visits, he will literally train his mind to just not get affected and think she is sick. First time he said that. I think first time someone gave him that advice besides ME. And as hubby and I talked this morning, NOTHING is permanent. If we do decide later this is not working and we need to go somewhere, WE WILL. But right now, we NEED to make those necessary investments and money so we CAN do something later.

 

Does that make sense?? So we have decided to stay. We tested the waters yesteday. We went over to visit my parents, put on a nice act. Mom always feels we have never apologized for anything. So we did. We simply said "Look, if we have mistakes in the past even we are sorry.

 

So lets move on positively." THis was not for her. This was FOR US. For us to just treat her like she is ill. Like a sick child that needs toys. Its sad, but this is how we need to treat her... But we cant harm our own futures for this right now. We need to brush things off.

 

And I knew I could but I needed hubby to do that also. HE has also promised that he will as well, regardless of what it is... So thats it...Thats where we are at... We are staying and will be concentrating will be training our minds to concentrate on what is important in our lives. Each other and our careers. The rest is bull.

[michelangelo]

And you decide to stay.

 

And your plan is to just iignore her bizarre behavior?

 

That is a good short-term plan. But do you think you could look into psychiatric care for your mom?

 

If she is in an ER wailing about her grown child abandoning her, she needs help.

 

If your dad is unable to deal with this, it may be up to you to find some help for her. I'm not talking about counselling. I'm talking about a full psychiatric evaluation. She may need meds and long-term treatment.

[ConfusedGal]

Yeah but we just cant MAKE her do this. This is exactly what we suggested at the ER. But they didnt want to do it. And somehow, the nurses there didnt call a psychisiatrist even after seeing this. I cant force anyone. I can only try to lead my own life, and unfortunately ignore it. Whether or not I am near or far, I would have to ignore this issue. My mom is a strong woman. No one can MAKE her do anything... Like my husband said, if we find that its not working, nothing is permanent and we can move later on. Right now, him and I need to have a strong front together...

[catgirl1927]

People who aren't the target of abuse like what you're talking about always say, "Just let it roll off of you." My family gave me crap for years, saying, just put up with her, she can't hurt you. Yes, she can, and will, and LOVES every minute of it. Is she crazy? Your mother may be mentally ill. She sounds like mine, who will stop taking her medication (she had a kidney transplant when I was 15 because she was taking SO many diuretics she hosed her kidneys) so that she'll have an "episode" to get attention. My mother isn't crazy, she's a horrible, hateful, spiteful person who gets her jollies hurting other people. It's so good that your husband is there, but as soon as you have had enough just say so and get the hell out. You can always make money and make ends meet. It will work out. It won't do any good to have money in the bank if you're in the nuthouse.

[michelangelo]

You can consult with a psychiatrist about this, but if she is adjudged to be a danger to herself or others she can be hospitalized without her consent for 72 hours.

 

During that time she can be evaluated.

 

The nurse didn't push it because she just wanted the problem gone. Don't presume the nurse had your mom's best interests at heart.

 

All I'm saying is that you have further decisionmaking beyond the short-term of extricating yourself from her daily barrage.

 

Why? Because you have introduced the idea that she is mentally ill.

 

If you had said she had cancer or a broken leg and that had caused her to wail in pain would you just walk away from that? Think of her mental illness as being just as painful to her and just as much not within her abilities to fix without medical help.

[ConfusedGal]

I understand its difficult to let stuff roll off. I have never even tried it. I will now. But would moving away be the answer if she just gave me the same crap on the phone all the time and on visits??

[ConfusedGal]

From some people, I get, moving wont help. From others I get, yes it will. Its terribly confusing. If we move, there is still the underlying problem and she says the same crap on the phone. In moving, I think I may have massively detrimented my career AND hear the same stuff on the phone. EVENTUALLY I HAVE to train my own mind in order to preserve my OWN sanity. Whether I am here or there. Cause she will NEVER change. Its impossible. Nor will I drag her to a psychiatrist. YOu cant force someone. She was so thrilled that we went over yesterday. I realize she felt that she won. But so what?? SHe won a little game in her head. Congrats. Here is an imaginary trophy mom!

[michelangelo]

You made the right decision as a team. You and your husband.

 

Your decisions about what to do about your mom are right--short-term.

 

At some point you know you will have to find help for her despite her protestations.

 

Leaving it to "she's nuts" and a strategy of nonengagement is fine for now. You need to recharge.

 

But once you recharge, please investigate more fully a strategy for helping her. This is not necessarily a strategy that you telegraph to her.

 

Not until you have actually spoken to mental health professionals about what to do.

 

Write down the types of interactions you have with your mom and detail the ER visit and any similar situations.

 

Summarize whether she has been this way a long time or if it occurred recently. Is it getting worse?

 

Then see what they say for you to do.

[ConfusedGal]

YOu know, unfortunately here there was no right or wrong answer. One thing I have realized is she has come too far along to even change at all. And neither me nor my husband have the strength or energy to deal anymore. So like he said, "We treat her as a child. Give her her toys, and let her play." She may have gone even more psycho if we moved cause then she would feel COMPLETELY alone. I realize that episode was a frightening one, both for me and my husband.... But it would happened whether we were staying or leaving. I dont know whether we made the right decision. But obviously what we were doing before was not working. So this our new strategy which we will try together. If my husband had moved, and I was stuck here completely alone for months while I looked for a job out there (I wouldnt have quit without having a job. We need the money)only with her left in town, I think those few months dealing with her without my husband would have made me more mental... Again, we hope we made the right decision. But no guarantees of that...

[Mz. Pixie]

Confused Gal-

 

This is the first time I've read your posts. Your statements about your mom have my little red flag waving here. She sounds so much like my mother used to be (she's dead now). Have you investigated Borderline Personality Disorders?? My mom had one and it sound like your mom might suffer from one. There's a lot of good information at http://www.bpdcentral.com. Do some reading there and see if you recognize her.

 

You need to learn to set some boundaries with her. That's the only way to last. Use caller ID and a answering machine to screen her calls and limit your visits.

 

I could write a book on this topic. My mother had my stepfather telling me that she had to quit work because of her nerves because I was such a bad daughter. Ummmm, no, I told him- it's because she has empysema and is chained to oxygen 24/7 that she had to quit her job- that had nothing to do with me or nerves!

[ConfusedGal]

Hi Ms. Pixie,

 

My friend, a psychiatrist told me my mom has definite condition of a borderline personality disorder. Did you live close to your mother or far away?? How did you handle it? My Dad is in pure denial and just says "Mom is just very sensitive." I am hoping we made the right decision in staying here... Logically it made sense. In my heart, however, I wonder... The whole move was SO uncertain though. It took me a year to get an awesome job. I have only been working here for 7 months, and out in MN, I was getting no responses. If I did, it was from very small firms where I would be taking a major step backward in terms of my career... anyways, beyond that, we just think that if Dad doesnt recognize it (which he WONT. They have an Indian background, where a psychiatrist means you are NUTS.) He is very defensive and she has programmed him to also think its everyone else, not her... So we have decided, the way to survive is to literally treat her like a kid, and if she gives advice or complains, listen to it, but then just do whatever we want.

[Mz. Pixie]

I lived close. My parents were divorced, and my stepfather was basically the same as your dad- it was everyone else who had the problem, not her. That being said, I hated him as well, because he was a child molester- but that's another topic. I did feel sorry for him though because she turned any topic into something to do with herself. For instance, he had diabetes but she was all upset because it was going to be too hard on her to make dinners for him!

 

I was 28 before I found out what was wrong with her.

 

Your father is in denial, yes, but that is the way he's learned to deal with her.

 

The hardest thing is thinking that she will change. I always longed for my mom to change but sadly, I had to come to face the fact that she probably never would. I grieve for what we could have had but I know it wasn't possible.

 

I disagree with just placating her all of the time when she acts disrespectful. I think you have to set some boundaries with her. A counselor would be helpful in helping you to do that. Once they lose the ability to control you- they sort of take a huge step back like WHOA??? What's going on here???

 

For instance, my mom always manipulated me. She was jealous of my inlaws and a day before the wedding threatened not to come. Where in the past I would have cried and begged her and reasoned with her this time I said, "That's fine Mother, if you want to do that to yourself, that's fine with me- but rest assured- I'm getting married on Saturday- with or without you. You will not spoil my day." and I hung up on her. Later on she called me like nothing happened. They have a short ability to remember things as they actually happen- and are always rewriting the truth anyway!

[ConfusedGal]

See, I could not just tell my mother and say "Thats it. I am getting married with or without you." She would not call me later and act like nothing ever happened. She would overdramatize the whole thing and cry and say how everyone blames her and no one loves her...The result of me confronting her last week was her ending up in the ER screaming her lungs out and thinking I was the mean one. So as you said, it is hard to accept she will never change. So why spend the energy/time arguing when it makes zero difference?? My Dad is not willing to admit anything and sides with her all the time. She will NOT go for therapy. I am shocked a doctor has not forced her into it by now. Which is why I have chosen to just be nice and go along with it...Because if I keep arguing or drawing boundaries, it results in some blow up episode. It always has. My marriage has always had issues cause of this. I dont want this to affect my marriage anymore... Time will tell whether this was a good way of shielding my husband and myself or not. My husband I have decided we have fought her too much and nothing has come out of it. This doesnt mean we will listen to everything she has to say and do whatever she has to say. It DOES however mean, that we will listen to it but do what WE want ultimately...

 

IN short, I am tired of this affecting my life the way it has... I have had mental breakdowns cause of the trauma she has caused in my life. And I wondered whether moving far away would have helped...I dont know. It might have but I would still hear those breakdowns on the phone and dread coming to visit for a weekend or anything... (or having her come visit.) But I read the website you sent me. My Mom DEFINITELY has BPD...Actually I think she has what is called a histrionic disorder....

 

This has all been EXTREMELY difficult for me... Dealing with the issue of moving or not...Dealing with her blow up on Friday... Fortunately, I DO have my husband with me and that makes all the difference in the world. His family, though in another country is just so wonderful and sane... I love talking with them...Gives me some peace knowing they ARE family. Life shouldnt be this difficult...Unfortunately, it is...

[catgirl1927]

...The result of me confronting her last week was her ending up in the ER screaming her lungs out and thinking I was the mean one.

 

See, here's the thing. She was screaming that it was you. She was telling everyone else it was you. Are you sure she really thought it was you? Or was this a tantrum?

 

See, I've found that, especially in women who have never been independent, some people will revert back into childhood. When screaming tantrums work to get what they want, like a 3 year old in a toy store, they throw a big ol' fit. It ends with them getting what they want. They aren't concerned with being respected, because they never have been. So they do what it takes to get what they want. Are they crazy? Maybe a little. But they are just like children, and most of the time a little discipline goes a long way.

 

I do understand, though, that without the support of your family, that course of action will not work for you. Bless your heart, I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Just be sure you get the hell out before it ruins your marriage.

[Mz. Pixie]

See, I could not just tell my mother and say "Thats it. I am getting married with or without you." She would not call me later and act like nothing ever happened. She would overdramatize the whole thing and cry and say how everyone blames her and no one loves her...The result of me confronting her last week was her ending up in the ER screaming her lungs out and thinking I was the mean one. So as you said, it is hard to accept she will never change. So why spend the energy/time arguing when it makes zero difference?? My Dad is not willing to admit anything and sides with her all the time. She will NOT go for therapy.

 

The thing is, yeah, she would call you- it might be five weeks later but she would call you. Because she can't stay away from you- but the next time she did that- her anger would last a shorter period of time. Eventually she will get to the place where she doesn't pull that stuff with you very much- because she knows you're not going to listen to it.

 

I have been exactly where you are, exactly. I went to a wedding once where I was in the wedding and my mother came. Everyone talked to her and I talked to her as much as possible but I was having photos made. When I got home I got a call from my stepdad, because my mom had told him everyone ignored her, I ignored her and she was crying hysterically. It was all lies!

 

Of course she won't go to therapy- they usually never do. Even if they do it takes years and years of serious therapy before they make a small improvement. Truth be told, they don't think there is anything wrong with them- they think it's everyone else!

 

Histronic is a form of BPD as well.

 

The thing is, she is not going to change but by changing the way you react to her you can make things easier on yourself. Only you can decide what the best course of action is for you. I can only tell you what worked for me and what worked for the other ladies I was in a support group with (3 years). This is really about making this situation workable for you and your husband, not her or your dad. The key difference to what I'm telling you is not to argue- just cut her off until her behavior is acceptable again

Kind of like you would do with a two year old.

 

I know too well the damage that a mother like this can cause, Confused. I've struggled with it all my life. She's been dead almost three years and I can tell you, there has not been one minute when I've missed her. That sounds harsh I know, but people who have never been there simply do not understand what it's like.

 

Have you sought therapy for yourself about this?

[ConfusedGal]

I was thinking about it today. I really do need some therapy on this... Suddenly I am feeling like our decision not to move away from her may have been a bad one...I am going through one of the most difficult phases of my life... I really am... THe last few weeks have just been a whirwind...If I didnt call my mom, she wouldnt call me 5 weeks later with subsided anger. She would do something nuts and be in the hospital. Its because of her I wanted to move away...Practicality made my husband and I stay... But again I have the feeling of my environment eating me up... I really do.. Man. It shouldnt be this difficult. life just shouldnt be this difficult.

[ConfusedGal]

How did you live your life normally with her in the background?? Really....How did you manage to focus on your own life? I always feel like her "force" is around me... I dont know if that would have changed if I was far away...I dont. I know I was in London for three months a few years ago and she even made that trip pure hell just on the phone.

[Mz. Pixie]

What I did?? I became really busy! I had a full time job, a home and eventually two kids. I got caller ID, and invested in a answering machine. I turned the phone off when I didn't want to talk to her. When I did talk to her, I never told her anything about my personal life- or as little as I could get away with. I made my visits few and far between and when I did visit I kept them short. I also told her, "As long as the two of us can get along and you're going to be good to me, we can have a relationship but I will not be your personal punching bag"

 

When I had my son, her mistreatment really affected me. Because I had this beautiful baby who I would die for, and I just couldn't understand how she could possibly love me and treat me like she did. That is when I went to therapy.

 

I have PTSD- Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from dealing with her and the abuse in my past. That is what people who have been in war have for goodness sakes and I've certainly never been to war! Sometimes it flares up and I need therapy and medication again, at other times I function fine. Other than dealing with her emotional abuse, there was physical, verbal and sexual abuse in my childhood as well.

 

A good therapist should be able to help you set some boundaries with her. Unfortunately, moving away might help temporarily but it's not going to help those deep wounds that she has caused you. They will eventually resurface until you learn to deal with them properly.

 

You can learn to deal with it, I know you can. There is power in being able to set boundaries and not letting her push you around.

[ConfusedGal]

Ms. Pixie,

 

Thanks. I want to be able to set boundaries without hurting her...I hurt her and it hurts me due to her breakdowns and blowouts...But yet, anything I say hurts her...I also had a traumatic childhood. My Mom and Dad fought ALL the time, and my Dad physically abused my mother several times.. She was a housewife, so she never had a distraction at all. About 3 years ago, I actually tried to kill myself cause I couldnt take it anymore...I was young, about 23 at the time... She had made the first 6 months of my married life pure hell... I know it was silly of me to do that, but she really drove me to that point where I didnt know how to handle it anymore. Confrontation with her has always brought me grief... This is why the moving decision was so damn difficult... Part of me said GO! GO AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE AS YOU CAN FROM HER!!! JUST LEAVE! But then practicality set in... I would risk my career right at its start to run away from her... Is that worth it? I dont know... It may have worked and it may have not... I was looking up therapists today. I think I need it very badly... Its interesting that she has basically mentally crippled me...Me. A 27 year old normally happy go lucky attorney. And I feel like a small child, because of her impact. Liek I cannot be a grown up and a good wife... Did she have issues with your husband too?? (Jealousy?) Mine does and those indirect comments come up all the time...Its just so sad that the relationship with her will pretty much be a fake one... Did she act a bit different after you had children?? I dont know how long this "ignoring" strategy will last... How long we can take it. But I dont want to come back to square one with her. The same bull and confrontation etc...I just want to live, Ms. Pixie...Thats it. I want to live a normal happy life with my husband and not think about her...

[ConfusedGal]

im starting to feel horribly depressed...Like I am on the verge of cracking...Really. THese last few weeks have taken too much of a toll on my mind... Its like, we made a 'logical' decision, but I dont know if I can handle logic after everything I have been through... I am looking for a therapist. all I want to do is have my mind function like a normal adult... Really, I do...

[Mz. Pixie]

Oh my, she was jealous of anyone I showed attention or love to- especially my grandmother who practically raised me. Of course, anyone that was good to me I loved more than her because she was so abusive but she couldn't see that her actions led to the whole thing.

 

I know you just want to live your life. I know that you love her and it hurts you to think you're hurting her. In reality though, you're not hurting her- it's surface stuff- she can't actually feel she doesn't have the ability to feel that deeply but acts like that to convince herself and others that she does.

 

Does that make sense?? She is getting her emotional strokes by doing this to you, which in turn fuels her disease.

 

Please investigate therapy for yourself. I'm by no means an expert on the whole disorder. I can only relate my experiences and my personal solutions that worked for me.

 

I was exhausted by the time she died, just utterly exhausted. For the first time in my life, I was living a life without drama!! What bliss!

[ConfusedGal]

Didn't just moving far away ever cross your mind?? Did you have any siblings? I have an older brother.... He lives across the country and comes home 3 days a year. He calls her 6 times a day and talks to her like he is 2 just to placate her. She likes this. So you see, in confronting anything, I am truly and utterly alone. I would love to live a life without drama...And you are right. I strated crying the other day after speaking to my MIL. Cause she is just SO nondramatic and bubbly and normal and funny. And her entire mantra is "Dont worry about me. I am doing just GREAT!" She has the coolest relationship with her daughter (my SIL)... Its not fair that I cant have that. And its even more unfair for her to expect it from me... And the fact that I KNOW that I cant EVER have that is killing me. The fact that I have to fake with my own mom is killing me... I feel like she has emotionally destroyed me. She has limited my capability to function as an adult. And in all this, SHE is the victim... The fact that I now look at my own mother and think "I REALLY DONT LIKE YOU." makes me so sad and angry all at the same time...

 

And in turn I bring this sadness into my marriage. My husband comes from a very sane family. A nice family who listens to each other and they argue with each other like normal people...No one ends up screaming in the hospital... SOmetimes I wish I lived closer to them. THey are in India...I miss normality... Sane people. I am so happy when I visit my husbands folks. They treat me like a healthy functioning adult. Not merely an extension of them... Yes I am looking into therapy...

[Mz. Pixie]

I feel horrible for you.

 

I think we who have had dysfunctional childhoods either go to one extreme or the other. We marry someone as dysfunctional as we are or someone who is the complete opposite. My first husband and my second husband both had dream childhoods.

 

Hang in there CG!