Mz. Pixie, read!!

[bkz]

Oooops, I ment to say PLEASE read in the title. Sorry.

Hopefully you remember me its been along time since ive posted. I’ll leave a link to my story for a reminder just incase.

 

Last I posted things with me and my W were going well and actually had gotten even better over the last few months, our marriage seemed to be healing nicely and our friendship was better than ever. We had never been closer, or so it seemed. I think I mentioned in my previous posts’ that my W had developed a friendship with a guy that worked (volontiered twice a week) at the YMCA here in town? Well she would hang out and talk with him at the park with our children ( ages 4,5 and 7) and his daughter age 7. She told me about him when they first met and said my son had a bond with him and just loved him, also that I should see how this other man interacted with my son cause its how shed like to see me treat him. Well needless to say I wasn’t real pleased and my feeling were hurt, I didn’t think it was a good idea that she put my son in a position to feel the same way she did. She never spoke about him again till I found out (from my kids) in August they had been hanging out at the park together and even went to a movie with my daughter and his. The kids told me mommy said not to tell you cause youd get mad and not understand. Well I let this all go since me and my W were working on our marriage and the other guy left out of town in August.

 

Fast forward to a month ago. Everything had been great!!! Just awesome and wham, she started acting real distant again and saying she needed space from me. She said she needed time to miss me and know that she loves me. Well imagine this, I also found out our YMCA friend was back in town as well. To shorten things let me get to the important part. Shes also been hanging out with friends from work that our much younger than her and spending A LOT more time there. A month or so ago she told me they gave her a line of coke in the bathroom one morning but she didn’t enjoy it, yeah what ever, I like a trusting fool I mean husband just told her not to worry about it no big deal. Well on Friday she moved out into a little trailor up the road and says she just wants time to miss me. Because of all the errational behavior I looked at our bank statements and cell phone bills and WOW. Money missing and calls that began in November to a cell # 3-6 times a day at all hours plus long distance calls to a # the beginning of Sept to the end. Well basically I calle the long distant # and it was a hotel, I ask if so and so (other man) had stayed there in Sept and he had. I confronted her with this and she said it was our daughters talking, well the calls were made after 9am and 9:30pm when my daughters in school or asleep so I confronted her on this and she admitted they have been friends and hes actually helped/incouraged her to work things out with me, YEAH RIGHT!! Anyways she told me Sat. she doesn’t see anything wrong with her friendship with him and hasn’t been dishonest or lied to me about anything. Were still seing the same therapist (separately) and on Thursday she told me to go buy the book I Hate You, don’t leave me, and id have a better idea of what was going on with my wife. Ive had my doughts about this therapist but I guess shes starting to figure my wife out now? You were the one who originally suggested I google Borderline Personality Disorder so id like to get some advice from you if possible. Theres a LOOOOOOONG list of crazy things she done/doing but at this point my main focus is to get her help and being how much I love her im still wanting to save our marriage/family it possible. The therapist told me Thurs. she thought my wife would try to pull me closer, well on Sat 2 hours after me and my wife talked she called from Home Depot to tell me she missed me and didn’t feel right being there without me. She then called 10 min. later from the parking lot crying saying she missed me an didn’t know what to do, but that this is all part of the prosses she needs to go through? Like I said shes told me she wants to miss me and feel that shes staying in the marriage for the right resons but this makes no sense. Yesterday she started pushing me away again making excusses to be mad at me saying I wasn’t being nice, witch just wasn’t the case. Any input? Should I give up on my marriage and deal with the pain of loosing her now or should I continue to hang in there? Is it really worth it or is there no hope? Im devastated and the kids our really starting to suffer at this point, but I feel theres still hope. She did take the book Five Love Languages with her to the new place. I just cant tell when she being honest or manipulating me, she really knows how to push mine and her mothers buttons and were both extreamly confused. Any help would be greatly appritiated. Sorry for the novel!!!!

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t71713/

[Mz. Pixie]

The I hate you don't leave me book is a book on borderlines. You can also get more information at http://www.bpdcentral.com as well.

 

It could be that she's borderline. But she's also having an affair. I do not believe her lies about your kids talking to this guy- I mean, come on. Do not be in denial about this. To top it all off of having all these mental problems, she's having an affair and some of her actions can be attributed to that.

 

If I were you I'd expose the affair to the YMCA. They project a wholesome image and wouldn't want that kind of person associated with them, at all.

 

While she's "taking time to miss you" do not support her financially. Let her pay her bills herself. You can help with stuff for the kids, but that's it. Let her see what it's really like to be a single mom.

 

I'm sorry things have turned to this, I wish I could be more helpful.

[bkz]

Thanks for the input Mz. Pixie. I actually did call her out on the affair and she admitted that they were freinds and thats the reson for the phone calls to him, but im not in denial I just dont know if it was physical or emotional. Her and I have had alot of sex in the last few months and its been the best its ever been in our 12 years together so who knows. Her dad is paying the rent on the place she's staying in and im trying to switch my account this week at the bank. Anymore advice is appritiated. Also I saw our therapyst last night and i'll update on what she told me and what happend last night when my wife went to see a lawyer, just dont have time right not. Thanks again.

[tweldy]

Your description of her behavior is highly consistent with drug abuse: radical mood swings, erratic behavior, leaving for a while to find herself (find a fat line, methinks), spending lots of money, tons of phone calls, hanging out with this weird dude a lot (you know, chatting with just about anyone is absolutely scintillating when you're on the blow)...

 

I do have to say, I almost laughed at the *I had a line of cocaine, but I didn't like it* line from your wife. This is analagous to "But I didn't inhale". You pointed out your skepticism on this one, and I'm glad to hear you're being realistic, for if you were to buy that, there are bridges for sale, sir, all over this fair country.

 

You know, its possible that she tried drugs once or twice with this person/crowd she's involved in and its not about that. Its also possible to win the lottery, but its not likely. If she's become a drug addict, especially since she appears to be using harder stuff like coke, there are two pieces of advice I'd give to you:

1) Nothing will get better until she gets off of the drugs.

2) If she's doing drugs around the kids, she shouldn't be around the kids until she gets clean.

 

If you can find a way to deal with her drug problem, then everything else may be fixable. Without dealing with the drug issue, I don't think any amount of counseling will help or anything else you do will help the situation. In your situation, if I knew she was doing cocaine and where she was doing it, I would consider calling the police on her. Cocaine will kill you. A criminal record and some jail time will not. I wish you the best of luck.

[bkz]

Your absolutely right about her not getting better till she gets off the drugs, if she infact is doing them. The freinds shes hanging out with (one in particular) is 23 and the other is 27, both woman and they both work with her. My wife is 36 as am I and the 27 year old and her husband are swingers if you can believe that crap, the first time I met her at the office she came onto me a bit witch made me ask my wife what was the deal? She told me and I mentioned it would be a good idea not to hang out with them. I dont know how to catch her and our therapist has told me to leave it alone and stop snuping that ive got all the evidence I need to know whats gone on. The one cell # on my wife phone bill that concernes me has been called 110 times out of a total of 350 calls from Feb. 7th to March 7th, I just looked at the new statement yesterday online and this # has been called 3-5 times a day since Nov. 19th. She says its her freinds (23 year old from work) boyfreind cell phone. But alot of the calls are made durring the day when my wifes supposedly at work as well as her friend, plus the majority of them are 1 and 2 minutes and she'll call 3 or 4 times in a row till she gets ahold of someone or like shes leaving a message. Looks VERY suspisious to me .My wife has had substance abuse issues in the past with alchohol and cocaine but ive pretty much just let it go, sorta been in denial and I guess im an enabler. Matter a fact im also a bit of a co-dependant as I see it, it gives me purpose and makes me feel good in a way to take care of and protect her, but hey im her husband and I love her so part of that is sorta natural I guess?

 

Last night my mother inlaw told me my wife was going to see her lawyer (my mother inlaw urged her to do so) to figure out visitation for the kids so they'd have some structure while this stuff is going on, this I thought was a great idea. In the meantime I went to see our therapist and she told me she almost possitive in her diagnosis of my wife and this will be the toughest thing i'll ever have to go through if I decide to stick it out, and of course theres no guarantees of anything. Well of course im gonna be there for her and the kids and if our marriage survives then thats great, but right now I need to just start taking care of me and get off the roller coaster thats become my wifes life. My mother inlaw read the book and will be coming to our therapist with me on thursday. Back to the lawyer. I saw a lawyer last week and my wife asked me what he said so I told her. He said I would get shared custody, id get half the money from the state (two of our kids are addopted and the state pays us till the 18) and the court would decide whats best for the kids so far as school and such. We live 15-20 miles from town and theres no after school care for our children in the school they attend but there is at the schools in town, plus my wifes family has been trying to get us back in town for a while but my wife just LOVES living in the aria were in now, basically in the middle of nowhere. Anyhow she was furrious at this and said im not doing whats best for the kids (really its whats best for her cause she cant stand the thought of moving from the aria we live in) and she loves them more than me, also that shed take me for child support and alamone (SP?). I informed her that child support with shared custody may not be an option and they'll go off her earning potention to determine alamone and that she should reconsult with her lawyer to make sure what im telling her isnt true if she feels that way. BTW my wife has a very good carrear and makes very close to what I do if shes working full time. My mother inlaw told me last night when my wife picked the kids up she was very upset and said she needed to find another lawyer that she didnt like this one (shes seen him at least 3 times that im aware of) and wasnt planning on going back to him. Oh im real surprised to here that!!! Thing the lawyer told her some things she didnt want to here? I bet he did and now hes bannished to the dungeon like the rest of us who dont see things her way!!!!! She also stated that she doesnt want a divorce right now and wants to work on things, today she probley feels differant but who knows!!! Also my mother inlaw told her she mentioned to me that my wife was going to see the lawyer and my wife was very upset with her and said thanks alot mom now ive got to deal with this now too!!!! When I got home last night from the gym and a freinds for dinner my wife had stopped by and streightend up a bit (the house if real clean so this wasnt nessisary) and left a bunch of Costco stuff on the counter all layed out that shed boughten for me. There was also a couple of messages from the kids saying hi and goodnight to me. Please if you see anything in what im righting here that makes any sense let me know and if you have any ?'s i'll be totally honest and open as ive been doing to get any insight or advice on how to deal with my situation the best way possible. Thanks!!!!!

[bkz]

Somthing else to add. Now ive never done drugs, ive been clean my whole life except for drinking (not much of a drinker) and ive tried pot a bit when I was younger. A freind of mine whos had his share of addictions is the one who brought some things with my wife to my attention and told me to look at our bank statements ect....... Theres quite a bit of money missing witch at first she lied, now she says she can account for all of it. Shes lost quite a bit of wieght but her wieght allways fluctuates and I figured she was just stressed out with our situation, but she does eat, matter a fact I buy her lots of chocolates and candy so she'll snack in bed at night when were watching TV and she'll even eat cheescake (that I buy her of course) in bed. She also eats meals at night with us, she just moved out on Friday night and was staying here up till that point so ive had the ability to sorta watch her. She insists on spendin MUCH more time at work the last few months including at night, she does the Costco shopping for supplies at the office she works at and she'll do this at night or on the weekend at night and wont get home till 10:30-11:30 at night. Obviously her behavior is erratic, she tells me she loves me and has sex with me one nite and two days later shes distant and wants space, plus the mood swings from real happy and up to sorta depressed and distant with little excitment in her voice. Its hard to say whats causing what? Her mental instability or drugs, the affair? I mean theres sooooo much, plus lets not forget she suffers from debilitating migranes (has for 15 years) and has been diagnosed with naralga (SP?) as well is on anti siezer meds for that plus the stuff for her headakes, she was taking ambium for the last few years but says shes stopped recently and I know she gets vicatan from work and will take these for pain as well. WHAT A MESS!!!!!! Im just at a loss for what to think and where to concentrate on if anything at all. Mabye im better off just worrying about me and my kids? But I love her and want her to get help.

[Mz. Pixie]

Vicodin from work? She can get fired for that. Is she a nurse or office manager at a dr's office??? Often times they are the worst drug addicts there are.

 

Coke, vicodin, ambien, wow. It could be a substance abuse problem in addition to her mental issues!

[bkz]

Shes a dental assistant but she does more cleaning/ordering/stocking of supplies than assisting lately. Her boss has a huge crush on her SURPRISE!!!! and lets her come and go as she pleases to keep her there. Any other Dr. would have fired her along time ago. When we first started having problems he offered to help her out financialy and with insurance, problem is the insurance is brutal with a 2500.00 deductible and wont work for all the problems she has. Im a state employee and have excellent benifits for are whole family, not that this should matter at this point im not staying in the marriage unless she gets help, period!!! Today ive been thinking about other man a bit and he works on Tuesdays from 2-5pm at the Y, i'll be going there after work at 4:30 to work out, im not sure what to say to him if anything at all. I did have an idea to find out if the cell # my wifes calling is him? I was gonna have a freind of mine call while I was standing near by and see if his phone rings? As of now someone only answered once when I call and it was a man but they hung up soon as I asked for his name, and theres no personal message when it goes to voice mail. Should I just let it go like our therapist says? Curriosity is getting to me plus if its not him the manner the phone calls are made would lead me to believe even more that its drug related?

[Mz. Pixie]

So, what happened?

[bkz]

Well yesterday morning I called to talk to the kids and my son (5 year old) said "hi (insert other mans name here)". Needless to say I was pretty upset and wanted to talk to my W. She said she doesnt know why hed say that and that hes just real upset because I confronted her about the affair in front of him, wicht I didnt, the kids were asleep in there rooms and it was 9:30pm when I got home and talked to her in the family room but she says he was lying there on the couch in the front room, NOT. She also said she hasnt spoken with other man lately. She just recalls things that didnt happen, I just dont get it? Then accuses me of changing the story to try and confuse her, or say im denying saying something she swears I said. She left a message on my cell later in the morning saying she thought I was trying to be to strong when she wanted me to come over Sunday morning and not hanging out with her, that I should be with her trying to form a freindship and work on our issues. Also that nothing happend with other man and if it made me feel better to blame him rather that work out our problems then go ahead cause nothing happened between them. I called her back and had a REAL nice chatt for about 20 min. She told me nothing happend between them and I should thank him cause he helped her see my side of things and incouraged her to stay with me durring our initial problems 8 months ago. Then mention she spoke with him a few days ago and hes still encouraging her to work things out with me, yet she just told me earlyer in the morning they hadnt spoke!! I didnt ? her cause it would only break our conversation into peices, oh well another lie. I asked what she thought I should do from her and what she wanted to do and whats the REAL problem in our marriage for her. She said she just cant talk to me, that its a communication problem. I said havent I allways been supportive and understanding? Havent I allways trusted and loved you totally and never check were your going, doing, done or with whom? She said yes more that any other husband/boy freind I know and everyone tells me how lucky I am all the time. So why cant you talk to me about things? She said she doesnt know but thats the only problem she has in our marriage but its a big one. I told her if thats all thats wrong with our marriage in her eyes than how can we not try to work things out? She said shed like to start going to councelling together again and I agreed but that she should obviously stay living on her own. She said shed like to start dating me and working on our friendship. I'll tell you all are freindship the last 4-5 months has allready become stronger than it ever was so im not sure what shes talking about like allways or if shes even being ohnest or just trying to keep my amotionally attached to her? She called back 5 minutes later to tell me somthing and thank me for the great conversation. She mentioned my son (5 year old) had the runs and was having anxiety again after he called me other mans name this morning. I said dont you think its rediculous that this other man is such a big part of our life that our son is even aware of it? She said yeah that my son told her he thought they could all be freinds with other man if mommy and daddy werent together, I mean come on like my 5 year old sons gonna say that to her?!!!! I said I just cant believe hes such a big part of all this, she said "its not my falt he started working at the Y and formed a bond with our son, WHAT!!!! I said yeah but that was along time ago, your the reason the relationship continued to this point its not becaus are son decided to have a freindship with him. She said see this is what I mean we just cant talk im gonna go and she hung up!!!! When I got home there was another message on my home phone thanking me for talking with her today and that it ment alot to her. Guess as long as I agree or dont ? her on anything we'll be just fine!!!!!!!! Shes freekin nuts!!! I have an appointment with our therapist today at 10:00am and my mother inlaw is coming along so she can chat with her as well. Any advice or things I can aske the therapist about?

[bkz]

One other thing. She just called and was trying to find her way to the therapists office cause she has an appointment at 8:00, well its 8:15 and the therapist moved last week and my w didnt even bother to check and see what the new location was or bring the phone # with her so shes calling me trying to find out were to go while shes driving around town aimlessly, pathetic! She then called again to let me know she found it and I asked her this: So far as your concered is communication the only real problem in our marriage to witch she replied yes. Ok so if thats the only problem in you opinion doesnt it seem sorta drastic to move out of the home and put our kids throught all of this because of that? And im pretty sure you told me your reson for moving out was so that you could have space/time to miss me and see that you really love me and want to stay married to my for the right resons? I told her im real confused and not sure if shes being honest with me, and that id like to her to talk to Dr about this while shes there cause at this point id really like to know what the problem realy is and if were gonna try and fix it or not, but either way I need to know. She said she was in limbo too, witch I said yeah but these are all YOUR decissions not mine and only you know what the real problems are or if your wanting to work them out so let me know soon as possible. She was pretty upset by the time I got off the phone with her, but when she called this morning she was VERY happy saying good morning and how ya doin in a real happy voice. Did I do the right thing confronting her?

[Mz. Pixie]

The fact that your wife is re writing the truth by changing facts you know to be true reinforces my idea that she is indeed borderline. They are famous for that.

 

If the only problem between the two of you is communication she shouldn't have a problem giving up the "friendship" of this man because it makes you uncomfortable. Which is total BS.

 

She's doubletalking with that crap about your kids too. They shouldn't have exposure to this other man, point blank.

[bkz]

saw the therapist yesterday with my mother inlaw. It was interesting and my mother inlaw mentioned to the therapist that my w had a suicide attempt in her early twenties (me and therapist know about this) and she thought she was capable of going that direction again, to witch I had to disagree. Mabye I just still dont see these things in her? Me and mother inlaw had a long talk after the appointment, she said the only thing she sees about me that would make my w affraid to approach me and be honest is the way I look. I allways have sorta a pinched look and look like im very serious, but thats not the way I feel inside as im a happy person the majority of the time. She says others see that but my w's sister, dad and one of her aunts veiws me the way my w does and they do think at times ive talked down to her and thats concidered verbal abuse to them. My mother inlaw, her husband and the rest of the family including mine dont really see it and know how difficult my w can be. Funny its the people she gets along with and really confides in that will agree with the way she sees things. The therapist still isnt ready to make a for sure diagnosis yet, my mother inlaw asked and thats the answer she got. We both thing the therapist is VERY vague and real hard to see where shes coming from or how she really feels about the situation, is this normal for phsycologists to be like this? Also her and my mother inlaw both think I shoul hang in ther with my w as they feel thing can still work out and after a couple of real good PRODUCTIVE convorsations with w yesterday I may have to agree and feel (almost hate to say it) theres hope. Funny thing, a couple of Fridays ago me and w had some real intense convorsations and there was alot of crying, arguing and feelings getting hurt. Durring this she mentioned that I dont see her for what she really is and I make her feel amotionally unstabel. She said she feels that shes and angle sent from god to make people happy, that she a good person and not just buitiful on the outside like everyone seems to think, witch just isnt true as people do see the buity my w possess on the inside and shes a wonderfull person. She also had an appointment yesterday morning with the therapist. In one of our conversations yesterday she said Dr. helped her to realize that she hadnt been honest with me, I thought YES shes finally gonna come clean and addmit to some of the things she been doing lately, not the case. She said Dr. helped her realize that she hadnt been being honest with not just me but her mom, dad, sister or really anyone about her true self, that she feels like shes been puting on an act to make everyone happy and see her in a differant way cause she was affraid everyone would be dissapointed or let down if she was herself. She said this sepperation is real hard and she misses her life and wants it back, but we both agreed the sepperation at this point is still nessassery and can only help us to both (like I dont allready!!!!) appritiate what we have with each other. Why the contradiction with her saying she feels like an angle sent from heaven to basically everyone only values her by her looks? Is she just real confused? Ovbivously everyone wants to see us be happy together and stayed married, but my mother inlaw is real concerned about me being able to forgive my w. She says if my w is mentally ill wouldnt that help you to be able to forgive her? I said if we can stayed married happely and HEALTHY then im pretty sure I have (with lots of councelling and prayer of course) it in my heart to forgive her, but im not real sure that even with mental illness (if there is) that theres any excuse for all the lying, dishonesty and relationship with other man even if it was just and emotional deal. Am I wrong on this? Im thinking about spending some time with the therapist again today since yesterday it was my mother inlaw doing all the talking with her, ive got some concernes and could use some dirrection witch so far the therapist has been waaaaayyyy too vague with me about whats realy going on and how to handle my w best. Any advice would be appritiated and thanks again Mz. Pixie for your input.

[bkz]

Oh also the therapist told my mother inlaw (and has told me and w) that she is hearing two completely differant stories from me and w. Hopefully that changed a bit after talking with mother inlaw yesterday, she told Dr she sees alot of my w in the book. She also asked my mother inlaw (I stepped out of the room for a few minutes so they could talk) if she thought I had any of the 8 symtoms on the list for a borderline, to with she replied no I just dont see it. We all agree ive got issues (who doesnt) from my childhood I still need to deal with but mentally ill? Ive aske Dr since the beginning since shes mentioned meds for my w does she think I need them or am I depressed or suffering enough emotionally that id need meds, and shes allway said no including when I asked her yesterday at the end of our session. I told her if she felt I needed them please tell me and id go down and get them that day, she again said no at least not at this point your seem to be doing ok concidering this is the most difficult thing you'll probley ever go through in your life.

[Mz. Pixie]

Isn't it interesting to you how your wife is only concerned with herself during this whole fiasco and not you or your children???

 

I cannot believe she called herself an angel! That cracks me up. An angel doesn't cheat on her husband and lie about it.

[bkz]

I know Mz. Pixie!! If I think about it that way I get a little pissed. Normally im sorta blaming myself for alot of this stuff and since she doesnt see any wrong doing on her part its hard for me to know whats really happend. She told me I should thank other man as hes encouraged her to stay in the marriage and make things work and that he still is. She says they're just freinds and thats all its ever been and that if I want to blame him for our problems rather that try to work on our real issues than fine but she says they havent had an affair. On Saturday we sat and talked, I addmitted to things I could have and would do differantely in our marriage and she only said shes been dishonest with me about her feeling and thats all shes done wrong at this point. No mention of her "freindship" with other man and the younger girls shes hanging out with at work, no mention of her constant nagging or how hard she is on me at times or how nothing ever seems to be good enough for her. She knows how much her freindship with other man hurts me as ive told her but yet she still talks to him and could really care less I think about how I feel. I told her Sat. night some of the things shes done to hurt me and I almost feel shes done them on purpose, or is she really just that inconsiderate of my feelings at this point? She said it really hurt her for me to say that cause shed never hurt me on purpose, yeah whatever.

 

I talked with her yesterday and she doesnt seem to be doing well. Shes acting VERY spunky/upbeat on the phone but its like shes really forcing it and I can tell. She move out last Friday and till Sat. I hadnt seen her, shes lost a TON more wieght and she has to wear a belt to just keep her pants up, she says shes been so upset about things that she cant eat. Her dad was here helping move this weekend, and she left him at her trailor for a few hours so she could go to work and she went to work on Sunday as well, shes just spending waaaaaayyy too much time there and im really suspisous of why? I mean her dad rent a moving truck, hires someone to help load it, brings all the stuff up here from 5 hours away for her and she leaves him alone at her pathetic little single wide trailor that smells of mold while whe goes to work? Seems odd. Also she mentioned to me shes been bleeding again for 3 weeks straight, her hair is falling out, shes getting migranes again, her mastoiditist (inner ear problem she never took care of) is starting to bother her again, she has a lump on the left side of her neck and of course the wieght loss and she not able to sleep witch seems pretty much normal for her. Im very concerned about her. Matter a fact my son (5 year old) has been weazzing and having trouble breathing a bit and has diahreah, plus my daughter (8 year old) is complaing about being light headed and her stomach hurts, im thinking that place has mold issues or somthing? My w's health has definately taken a hit since she left only a week ago and she seems to be taking this harder than I am, since im able to eat and sleep for the most part. She still hasnt gone to the doctor for all these problems but I guess looked in her medical book (my wifes bible for the most part) and says she thinks its a thiroyed problem? I think shes malnutritioned and isnt able to produce enough vitemen A or whatever and thats why mabye her hairs falling out? Any input would help tremendously, thanks!!!

[Mz. Pixie]

I think her drug use may be making her lose weight and her hair fall out.

 

Geeze. BLZ- I think it would be a good time for you to take the kids- mold is very dangerous......have them evaulated by a dr, please.

 

Then, I'd take a step back from her- until she wanted to give this guy up and work on the marriage. That means, no contact with her unless it's about the kids. If he's just a friend she shouldn't hate giving him up.

 

Have you been to marriage builders??

[bkz]

Yeah Mz. Pixie ive been to marriage builders but and have the book devorce remedy if thats what your talking about? I also bought another book this weekend ive been reading called Winning Back Your Lover and order Winning back Your Wife? I think thats what its called? Anyways im just at the point in therapy were ive decided to just work on me and told my W this and told her if and when the time comes for us to go together we'll cross that road then. She still is telling me she doesnt want a divorce and wants to start dating me and reconnect to see if thing can work. She mentioned yesterday that she somtimes gets a uncomfortable feeling in her stomach when shes around me, thats shes intimidated/scared of me or how i'll react to things, although im not a violent person I am emotional and confrontational with shes VERY non confrontational. I definately need to handle her with care as she allways been very fragile and unable to handle anything seriously for the most part. Could the feeling in her stomach be anxiety? Shes had plenty of anxiety attacts, elevated heart rate and hot flashes, espessially when were lying in bed at night. Here neurologist (she also has neuralga witch she takes ati-siezure meds for) did give her some anxiety meds a while back that help but she quit taking them. It real confusing all of this cause I dont know whats actually happening in her life, only what I percieve things to be. I know I have proof of stuff being suspsious but not proof of it actually happening. Mabye im reading to much into all of this? Or mabye im still sorta in denial about the extent of my W's problems? Im printing a bunch of stuff out today about mold and its affects and im calling to get an estemit for her place to be checked so I can go to her with my concernes. Her dad should have no problem paying for an inspection if hes paying the rest of her bills, espessially when it comes to the kids health. Thanks again for any input.

[Mz. Pixie]

You are in denial about her activities.

 

When I was cheating- I said the same things to my exhusband about how this other person was just a friend, encouraging me to work on my marriage etc. It was a bunch of lies.

 

The barometer for her behavior is that it makes you uncomfortable. If it makes you uncomfortable and she is unwilling to give it up to save her marriage, then there is something going on. Otherwise she wouldn't care.

 

She has so many problems, I'm not even sure where to start.

 

At some point, you have to learn to set some boundaries for yourself to be healthy. I know you love her, but in reality, B, you cannot fix what is wrong with her.

[bkz]

Again Mz. Pixie, than you so much for your honesty and advice. Im really trying to set boundries and to take care of me, espessially so I can take care of my kids. She isnt a sexual person and took years to get comfortable with me sexually and has said im the only one she ever enjoyed sex with. Now I know an affair is an affair be it emotional or physical but id be more upset if I thought it was physical. Mabye im in denial about this as well and just dont want to see the possiblility but I just have a hard time believing with all her hang ups and insecurity from what happened to her as a child (only she knows what that is) she would be willing to get involved sexually with someone? Plus I know who he is and im not trying to be mean or shallow but hes faaaaaaarrrr from someone who id think shed find attractive. Again mabye im just trying to protect myself from the hurt of it but oh well. She called and left me a voicemail this morning saying she was in her car listening to a Frank Sanatra (hes one of my favorites) cd she found up at the cabin and was thinking of me and wanted to share the cd with me. She also said she was sorry I had to work out in the rain (its raining her today and I work alot outside) and hoped it wasnt too hard on me and she hoped I had a good day. She started to say a couple of other things but stopped herself, I think she was wanting to talk to me but realized a message wasnt going to be the same? If im being an optomist I think she was missing me a bit and thats why she called? I also, like the pathetic sap I am, dropped something off for her at work today when she was picking up our youngest son. She has a porceline angel bell she keeps in her drawer and on the weekends i'll give her a day to sleep in and let me make her breakfast and take care of the kids. If she needs anything she can just ring the bell for me. We've dont this for many years and when she had namonia over Christmas for 3 weeks she used the bell to call on me. The bell is also used when "other" things and needs might arise for her so it really is something that im sure she looks at with only fond memories of me and moments when I was there to love her 100%. I dropped off the angel at work for her with a note that said "I know things are tough right now and there’s a lot of uncertainty in our lives. I am your friend and if it makes you feel better or makes this time in your life easier for you, just know I’m here for you and you can always count on me". I really thought about not doing this but I have to be true to myself and I love her so I went ahead and did it. She called and left another message and she was VERY touched, she said this made her really happy and was better than any flowers, candy, earings or anything else I could have bought her and thanks me a few times for it. I almost feel like an ass because not only am I taking most the blame from her still for our problems but im still doing nice things for her when she does nothing for me, well except hurt me at times. Talk about unhealthy, boy I really do need to start taking better care of me!!! Ive really let her beat me down havent I?

[Mz. Pixie]

First of all, B- an affair person is often times not more attractive than the spouse. It's not really looks that draws a person into an affair with another person. There are tons of posts out there about skanky ugly OW's that steal another woman's husband. It's about whatever need the person has that they are not getting met. For instance- say you like having your head scratched every night before bed. I mean, you crave it and think about it all the time. And your spouse won't scratch your head or is too busy to scratch it. Then along comes someone who LOVES scratching your head- lives for it and can't get enough of it. Does what I'm saying make sense to you??

 

My affair was most certainly not about sex for me. I had never really been highly sexual in my first marriage. Yes, I had sex with the OM- but not for the sex. It was about a give and take mostly. He was meeting my need for affection and admiration- stroking my ego- which I knew wouldn't continue if I didn't have sex with him after a while. So, I did so that I could continue to get what I wanted- which was the affection and admiration.

 

Have you read "Love must be tough" by James Dobson?? I think it would be a good investment for you.

 

You're correct when you say you're taking most of the blame here and letting her run all over you. Have you ever thought about whether or not you're co dependent? Why not do a little research on that topic??

[bkz]

Yeah a little codependant but more that I just think im someone who gets alot of my selfworth through my marriage. I know this isnt healthy espessially in a situation like im in and I really need to learn to love myself, my self asteam at this point is not good at all. I read through some codependancy stuff recentely when my w mentioned to me a few days ago that she felt codependent on me. She said since shes left she realizes how much I did for her and how much shes allways counted on me to make things work and take care of her. I ask the therapist if she thought I was codependent and she said maybe a little bit but its not the issue thats causing me problems in my marriage. My w on the other hand has a BUNCH of the symptoms listed under codependancy, but hey she has a ton of symptoms for alot of things as do we all to a certain extent I guess. I was getting pretty upset last night thinking about other man and how if he wasnt in the picture things would be so much less complicated. Im not sure how to deal with all this, one book tells me 100% love towards her and Love Must Be Tough says somthing kinda differant. My w obviously doesnt know what she really wants at this time as shes mentioned she doesnt want a divorce and want to start dating me and reconecting. Im wondering if I should even spend any time at all over at her place? Is that healthy for us or does it just make her think im ok with it? When I think about things I get upset enough to want to just go down and file for divorce and say screw it, also thinking it just may rattle her enough to give her a good hard reality check and want to work on things through councelling? My best freind who I talk to about everything is really sick of seing me put up with her crap and keeps encouraging me to end it and move on so I can be happy. Until a few weeks ago he was VERY supportive and hopefull that we could work things out, but now he just doesnt understand why id want to, matter a fact neither do most people I talk with. Im really confused on how to handle things and if mabye I should just move on. Even as a Christian I have every right to end my marriage since theres been an affair, but no amount of prayer has added any clarity to what decision im to make at this point.

[bkz]

Also the only thing my w has addmitted to at this point with me is shes not been honest about her feelings and hasnt let anyone see her true self cause shes affraid we'll all be dissapointed. Is that because she thinks if we all new what shes done we'd be dissapointed? Or she just really cant be herself because shes so insecure? She has mentioned a # of times in the past she feels like shes faking it or that things just dont feel real. She also told me on the phone Sunday in councelling shes starting to realize she has some real issues, this for my w is really a huge breakthrough but im just not sure its enough to give any hope to our sitch.

[Mz. Pixie]

It could be because of what she's done. As for the not feeling "real" I think that is something that people with addictions and BPD deal with alot. The pain that is felt through these things- even such as cutting- makes them feel "real".

 

I think, whatever you decide, it's going to take alot of patience and hard work to work through this. I can't help but think when she says, "I want to start dating you again and live separate" it means really "I can carry on my affair with the other guy too and have you both"

 

I think if she thinks she can separate and really work hard to mend the marriage and herself there is a chance, but I believe there will be no chance with the other guy in the picture "friend or no friend". And she shouldn't expect any man with any self esteem at all to put up with that.

[bkz]

Thanks again for the input!! From her phone calls to me and what shes saying to me, her mom and the therapist I have no reason to believe she doesnt want to try and make the marriage work, or at the very lease shes definatley not sure of what she wants witch means theres still a chance we can get through this. Mom in law and therapist are both telling me not to give up at this point so im just going along day by day trying not to get TOO caught up in her roller coaster. I did go to Marriage builders and did alot of reading today. I printed up a copy of "the policy of a joint agreement", Four guidlines for a successful negotiation" and "A summary of Dr Harley's basic concepts". Do you think its a bad idea to give it to her? I'll be seing the therapist tomarrow morning, i'll give her a copy and ask her as well. I just cant get the feeling out of me that things can be saved, although im not optomistic or hopefull at this point since we're seperated and im in ALOT of pain and very confused about whether to feel angry, hurt, betraid ect..... I know these feelings will do me no good at this point if I intend to stick it out. Im not sure if it will help me to visualize a possitive outcome to sorta keep me hopefull and motivated or if im just setting myself up for more pain? If I think about things working out (as hard as that is to do) it obviously makes me feel better, but im not sure thats healthy at this point?