A Letter to My Wife....Sex IS Important.

[Pink_Tulip]

Walk- Your post was great, I think James was reacting to the other post.

 

If a woman came on here and said, 'my husband works third shift, is on meds for depression, and is tired a lot. he told me that we have been married long enough that he shouldn't have to be emotionally connected to me anymore, and that I should just deal with it. It has been this way for five years now, and I am lonely and don't know what to do...' Everyone would say MC immediately, he is being neglectful, everyone would be all upset.

 

But when a guy comes here asking for help about a physcially neglectful wife (my opinion) there are people calling the man a pig?? I really don't understand this. It seems in our attempt as women to become indendent, the pendulum has swung so far to the other side, anything that is seen as purely masculine is 'bad.'

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I have PMS just like everyone eles, and I have my 'manhating' days here and there, lol. But seriously, why is what a woman wants and needs in a relationship all of a sudden more important than what a man wants and needs?? All I know is, I have a son, and I would be so sad to see him in James' position one day. It really breaks my heart. Here is a man who is asking for help and guidance to have his needs met, and is getting attacked. Very sad.

 

James- As I said before, I think you should send the letter. One of my biggest regrets in life is not standing up and demanding a change in my marriage. I just kept going along and hoping it would get better on its own, that he would one day see the light or some crap like that. It was so much time wasted, and by the time he got his wake up call, there was so much anger and resentment, it was a long way back.

[kitten chick]

If a woman came on here and said, 'my husband works third shift, is on meds for depression, and is tired a lot. he told me that we have been married long enough that he shouldn't have to be emotionally connected to me anymore, and that I should just deal with it. It has been this way for five years now, and I am lonely and don't know what to do...' Everyone would say MC immediately, he is being neglectful, everyone would be all upset.

Actually I would say the same thing to both the fictional person and the OP. It doesn't seem that you understand depression and the medication that goes along with it. It would probably do you some good to understand how it effects the spouse by doing research and by actually talking to the spouse about it.

 

When I first read the letter I felt the pain from both sides. I could understand where the OP was coming from, despite the fact that I thought that a good chunk of it was smoke. I felt bad for him and understood what he was going through. I also felt bad for his wife because it was pretty clear he didn't understand what she was going through just as much as she didn't understand him.

[Pink_Tulip]

Actually I was on Zoloft for a year for PPD and know from personal experience how it affects libido. That didn't mean, for me anyway, that I could just ignore my husbands needs b/c I didn't feel like it, or it was harder and would take longer.

 

I am sure there are many men, including my husband, who don't really feel like listening to their W talk about their latest fight with their mother, or about how some #### at work treated them badly and now they are all upset. But part of being in a marriage is recognizing it isn't all about you all the time. That means listening to drama you don't care about, or pleasing your husband sexually when you aren't in the mood as often as he is.

 

I think people are, by nature, very self centered. It takes an effort to step outside yourself and meet someone elses needs. JMO.

 

If he is lying and saying he is trying to be supportive when he is actually not, that is one thing. But he seems to be doing everything to get her to open up. I guess having been there I see it from his side more than hers, b/c I know what it is like doing everything and getting nothing. The whole 'it's not my problem, it's yours,' is total bs. What that really means is, I simply don't care enough about your needs to do anything about it.

[portableversion]

"If you no longer want sex and I have a "desire," then I may have to look elsewhere even if it is cheating."

 

JamesMD, you said this, not me. Where else are you going to look?? Barring divorce, your options are hookers, F buddies or an affair. None of which involve emotions or 'connections' that you SAY are so important, and which you say is missing in you marriage due to a lack of sex. So why are you going to cheat then??

 

JamesMD, I was actually sticking up for your wife.

 

It not my intent to be mean...just looking for consistency.

[Sassy]

James ,you ever thought that maybe the meds are making her sex drive low. Meds can do alot to a sex drive especially antidepressants . My mil takes antidepressants and she has no sex drive and my fil is mad and says all the time he will go elsewhere if she doesn't improve. This can be a side effect from antidepressants as well as depression ! How long has this been going on? Thyroid can mess with your sex drive as well. You should stand by here and be patient . Not judging what you are saying but when you are married and take vows you say in sickness and health . She is sick and dealing with alot . Good luck

[tanbark813]

What I don't get is why so many women point the finger at the BF/H when they don't want sex and he does and accuse the man of only wanting sex.

 

If the woman wants sex and the BF/H is unreceptive, it's a big self-esteem thing, he's cheating on you, he's addicted to porn, he's masturbating and cheating you out of sex.

 

I wonder why sexual relationships become a power struggle for many women, a weapon, something to withhold as a punishment or give as a reward.

 

EXACTLY.

 

That letter is way longer than it needs to be. Since when is wanting to get laid--BY YOUR SPOUSE OF ALL PEOPLE--a crime?

[cal gal]

I think the letter is well stated.

 

My heart is so heavy for his situation.

 

I would only dream of my husband expressing his feelings openly and honestly as he did. Most men are not nearly so eloquent. It is a

subject that she obviously prefers not to discuss. She needs to understand

how she is pushing him away emotionally by witholding physical contact.

 

Most husbands don't often times recognize this - they just acknowledge that they feel horny. So I commend his ability to understand how emotional two people can feel about making love.

[JamesM]

Walk, let me start by saying that the other post was not directed at you. I didn’t read yours until after I had posted. I am now responding to yours.

 

I appreciate your criticism because it is well thought out. I am not offended by it. Yes, some things hit me a little hard, but I can sense the good intentions behind them. The post from porta? was insulting and offensive. However, I am used to a few like this in every bunch. When one bares his soul on these Boards, not everyone is going to be understanding. I wrote the above letter because I needed to get it off my chest. At this point it would be counterproductive to give it (or a better version) to my wife.

 

When I stated the bit about listening to her, I didn’t intend to sound as if I wouldn’t do it unless she put out. I can see how it looks that way. Actually, we have quite a bit of time that we spend talking…when she feels like it. But yes, she will also listen to me. My point is that much conversation is very important to her. It brings us closer. In the same way, sex does this for me. Yet she cannot reciprocate this to me. No, I am not always eager to sit and listen about her problems of the day, especially if I have heard them before. But this is what she needs. That is what that statement should have been explaining.

 

And yes, I hope she will jump in my lap. I do not listen for that reason. However, this is what she did more in the past. Her passion showed through as we talked. Her appreciation showed itself in this manner.

 

Here is where it gets sticky. She has made comments to the effect that if she didn’t have so much to do and wasn’t so tired, maybe she would have interest in sex. But how can I expect her to have any energy for it when she spends all of her time doing housework, etc? So, I try to help out in any way I can to alleviate this. But, it never seems to translate into her being more relaxed and full of energy. No, I don’t expect sex as a reward. Yes, I do expect more because I have alleviated her workload.

 

Your next few paragraphs explain better than I have been able as to how I feel. Thank you. Unfortunately, you cannot be by my side when I talk to her.

 

As for initiative, I have left it in her hands. The last time we had sex, she sort of initiated it. But , she didn’t give much participation. No, I am not complaining…just explaining. That was about six weeks ago. Prior to that (one month prior), I had to beg her for it. It was my birthday and we had just spent the whole day together. I could see that she had had a wonderful day. I did not approach her at firtst. In years past, my birthday was a guaranteed day for sex. Usually it was extra special. Yes, like a little child this made me feel very special. So, I was much bummed out when she hadn’t even mentioned it. Finally, since I went to bed first (midnight), I got up and asked her if I could please indulge with her…no not exactly those words. She graciously agreed to, but I felt it was definitely for me. And no it was not special. Yes, I enjoyed it, and she did because I did. (I actually thought maybe this would be a turning point…not).

 

Now, I am at a point of seeking answers. No, I do not want a divorce. I have children that I want to grow up learning that facing and fixing your problems is better than running from them.

 

Thank you, reddog, for stating what I thought. Look at this poster’s age. At his age, my perspective would have been different than it is now. I can see how reading the way I posted that "I may have to cheat" would make it look like I WILL cheat, but this is not me. My meaning here was that her feeling that sex is not important to marriage and is meaningless falls flat if I dare mention that I will find it elsewhere. I believe that this was taken out of context by porta, but I can see his thoughts. Unfortunately, his response was not stated properly. I hope for his sake he doesn’t encounter a similar situation or it may make his life difficult. (Of course, he seems not to mind celibacy). But no, I cannot leave the marriage.

 

A side note…I do find it interesting that when a man posts about the lack of sex, he is considered selfish by many. But when a woman posts, the man must be having an affair. Yes, I am well aware that I said I will stay wither her in sickness and in health, but this doesn't men that I sit back and try and do nothing to fix the situation. No, rather my vows require me to work at making my marriage healthy again. She does not have an illness that limits her physically from having sex. She has had it many times during her illness. Her illness may very well be connecte to her thyroid. I found an interesting website which suggested different medication for thyroid disease. It also made a strong case for connecting fibromyalgia to thyroid dysfunction. My wife took down alot of info and has an appointment in two weeks with her specialist. Hopefully, this will yield some improvement. My goal in bringing back intimacy has also brought me into an area of trying to discovering some medication or therapy that will help her illness.

 

I know that something must change. Only I seem to think this, so I need to make the change.

 

Regarding antidepressants and meds, I HAVE done much research about them. I was the one who pointed out that Cymbalta didn’t have the side effect of low libido. I was the one who suggested Wellbutrin because it too was not going to affect her. What happened? Wellbutrin made her feel funny…so she quit. Cymbalta made her constipated…so she quit. Now that is why her doc said that she needs to see a specialist who can help her. Has she made this appointment? No! Yes, I am frustrated. I sometimes wonder if this is all an excuse for some other reason.

 

Have I considered marriage counseling? Yes, but I am afraid I will have to convince her. Ironically, it usually is the opposite. I have thought about contacting her past counselor, whom she respects. Maybe he can give her a call out of the blue. I am not sure she would be so gullible, then maybe?

[kitten chick]

This is the best site I've found for thyroid disease. I would suggest looking into a T3 replacement.

http://thyroidhost.proboards30.com/

 

She's depressed. If that doesn't get fixed the situation won't get any better. If you go elsewhere to get sex it's not going to make her any less depressed either.

[carmaenforcer]

men will say anything JUST to get laid!

 

so you tell wifey you'll get it from 'somewhere' else. Where is that exactly? A f*** buddy, a hooker, an affair? In other words, from someone with whom you have no 'connection' or no 'feelings'.

 

But what, you just told wifey that sex is the ONLY way you can feel connected to her?? So why are you so eager to do it with someone who have NO connection with whatsoever??

 

This isn't about 'connection' or 'emotions' or any of that tripe. You just want your pecker polished, and will say ANYTHING to acheive that end.

 

I call your BS.

 

 

I agree with portableversion on this one. I always thought it was cool how women are so ready to believe BS though. I'm not saying that JamesM doesn't love his Wife and feels a little less loved by his Wife not showing that she wants him, but it is all about getting some. Disguising it as something else is like politicians trying to pass a bill that they know the voters wont go for on it's own by piggybacking it with one on educational funding or the environment or some isht like that. Shady.

 

With women you have to sometimes manipulate the situation to your advantage by any means necessary. Given that their sex is a huge source of power over us they ration it's distribution and cost like middle eastern crude oil. Just because they can.

They will of coarse blame it on something else, a refinery fire, a tanker spill, summer = you don't help me clean around the house, you spend too much time with your friends, you didn't let me win that argument that I had no chance of winning logically.

Like with oil/gas, the fact that we need it gives them the power over us. That's why they are so scared of alternative sources of energy, I mean sex. Substitutes like masturbation and porn, strip clubs, etc. takes from their hold over us, another woman giving us attention will almost guarantee that you get laid. Sick but true.

Tell her whatever she wants to hear to a point, if there is no payback from all your efforts then you have to work on breaking down her power over you, get it somewhere else for a while. I don't mean cheat, but stop asking for it for a while and make yourself distant (not as available to her) and not so ready to fill her needs for a while, she might bring the price of crude down a bit if you buy an electric car, but then you might not want to go back to gas again. Or you can try, like the girls are suggesting, to apeal to her sensative side and hope that by you expressing you love to her she might then care more about your needs. I think, yeah ufcking right, but hey I could be wrong.

[whichwayisup]

Is it affordable for you two to discuss getting a cleaning lady to come once every few weeks? That could lighten the load, make her feel less stressed and tired. That way, both of you can spend that time together instead of worrying about what needs to be cleaned up and put away.

 

Another thing you both can do together, is yoga. Buy a beginners tape, and do this at home in your TV room. It will relax the mind, which is good for her if she is feeling depressed. It's healthy too!

[blind_otter]

Honestly, I agree with KC on this one:

 

She's depressed. If that doesn't get fixed the situation won't get any better. If you go elsewhere to get sex it's not going to make her any less depressed either.

 

All these other things are externalized projections of her internal issue. Honestly, I'll leave laundry until the next day in order to get me some lovin', so IMO housework isn't the real issue. Thyroid disease is a biggie for affecting emotions. Sounds like she hasn't really gotten to the source of her depression yet, and pharmacotherapy is RARELY 100% effective unless there are some cogntive/behavior changes to lifestyle and coping skills.

[reddog63]

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

If a woman if fat and will not get in shape for spouse............posts will say to the man..........maybe if you helped her out around house........give her time...........she has three kids, etc..........how selfish of you..........maybe you could exercise with her...........blah blah blah, and more fing blah.

 

The guy here has a wife that RARELY (from what I read) gives him any sex. NO EXCUSES..........YOU CAN NOT DO THIS IN A MARRIAGE........PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE. ITS JUST COMMON SENSE.

 

I would say same if reversed, Man wouldnt give wife sex.

 

Vows.............well, I think somewhere in the dam fine print are her obligations to her husband. Honor and obey and all that!!! Sure sex can be interpreted in there somewhere. So, don't pull that one out.

 

Women.........I love you complicated creatures..........but you can make more excuses on crap then a logical mind can handle.

 

Sorry in advance for rant.........

 

If it were me, and I could not get this resolved........I would not let years slip by, life is to short..............I wouldnt keep begging or arguing or whatever.........just make a decision one way or the other.

[kitten chick]

A physical illness is not an excuse.

 

I couldn't follow the rest of the post. There was no cognitive flow to it.

[catgirl1927]

There truly isn't. and I have no idea who these days is promising to honor and obey. :eyeroll:

[blind_otter]

Very often depressed people make up excuses for their symptoms. Externalize it onto something that is socially appropriate. "I'm tired, too much stress, kids, work, bladeeblabla" when in fact, if they actually do compensate for these added elements in their life, the feeling remains, with no outside excuse any more.

[JamesM]

Actually, I believe my wife agreed to honor and obey...of course, I don't point that out. LOL

 

Interesting, KC. That is exactly the therapy I stumbled upon. T3 meds. I haven't visited the thread you mentioned yet, but the one I was at was from a Dr Lowe. I think that was the website....drlowe.com.

 

Carmaenforcer, yes, you are right. IT is about getting some. But at that point I stop agreeing with you. This is a power women hold over us, but if they want it, they will want it. Unfortunately, she has no desire. I am becoming more and more convinced that her thyroid is the criminal behind everything. An illness is different than what you described. She definitely doesn't want it. I trhnk she is abit depressed, but I think she becomes angry that here her job, children and husband demand her...when does she have time for herself? Yes, She gets it, but I think she is not what she uised to be. Energy levels ar lower, physically she isn't all 100% all of the time., and on it goes.

 

I think my goal should be slightly turned to try to get her undepressed. Sadly enough, I can't fix her. She needs to do that. She would agree with Carmaenforcer...all I am doing this for is to get sex. However, if she was "whole" I think she would want it, too.

 

Still, I have to say...life ain't fair.

[portableversion]

on logical thinking Reddog.

 

In fact, their testosterone and their ever endless quest for pussy and the stupid things they do for pussy suggests they are quite illogical.

 

Or worse, they have the logical skills of an animal.

 

If men want to say they are pigs, then they should expect to be treated as such.

[TeaCooler]

men will say anything JUST to get laid!

 

so you tell wifey you'll get it from 'somewhere' else. Where is that exactly? A f*** buddy, a hooker, an affair? In other words, from someone with whom you have no 'connection' or no 'feelings'.

 

But what, you just told wifey that sex is the ONLY way you can feel connected to her?? So why are you so eager to do it with someone who have NO connection with whatsoever??

 

This isn't about 'connection' or 'emotions' or any of that tripe. You just want your pecker polished, and will say ANYTHING to acheive that end.

 

I call your BS.

 

i'm with you on this one, pv...

[portableversion]

is now obsolete and not used in wedding vows for at least 20 years. At least not in the Catholic Church where we were married.

 

Getting a bit misogynistic in here, fellows.

[kitten chick]

Going on T3 changed my life. For years all of the doctors blamed all of the side effects of thyroid disease on me, that I wasn't doing enough, or I was doing too much or it had nothing to do with my thyroid disease. Finally I went to see one of the best ranked endocrinologists who put me on Cytomel (T3 replacement) and it completely changed my life. I lost weight, I wasn't depressed, I wasn't tired, everything just went away. It was my miracle drug. (All of these things came back but because of something else, not thyroid disease)

 

It's a common disease and it flies under the radar, it's easily dismissed as nothing but I assure you it most certainly is something. I would also recommend reading Living Well with Hypothyroidism by Mary Shomon (I'm assuming she's hypo based on her symptoms). It will really open your eyes to what the doctors don't tell you and she will feel understood and know she's not the only person dealing with this.

 

While I still find your posts a bit tongue in cheek I'm glad that you realize that if you help her to get better you will reap more benefits than if you fight her for what you want. Sometimes a little selflessness will take you a long way.

 

btw, I was diagnosed when I was very young so I have many years of experience with this. When you get your PM rights I'd be happy to answer any questions about it.

[blind_otter]

i'm with you on this one, pv...

 

Bu-u-u-unk. I've never known a man to put that much effort into something he didn't care about. If he jsut wants p*ssy he can have an affair, it would be easier for f***'s sake. But he wants to do it with his wife, big effing deal.

 

It's perfectly fine for a woman to be frigid, apparently. but if a man's is frigid, heaven's forfend, he's f***ed up in the head.

 

I mean honestly. 6 WEEKS without sex from your spouse?

 

WTF.

[RecordProducer]

Wow! This letter is amazing! If it's written from the bottom of your heart then it shows so much love and desire for this woman.

 

I disagree with the other posters that it's hurtful. I think it glorifies your wife and you are basically begging for crumbs she is not willing to throw.

 

I wouldn't change a thing in the letter. I think it's also realistic and explains your feelings perfectly. I don't have a problem with you threatening that you'll find sex elsewhere if you get it less than once a month from your wife.

[hotgurl]

Bu-u-u-unk. I've never known a man to put that much effort into something he didn't care about. If he jsut wants p*ssy he can have an affair, it would be easier for f***'s sake. But he wants to do it with his wife, big effing deal.

 

It's perfectly fine for a woman to be frigid, apparently. but if a man's is frigid, heaven's forfend, he's f***ed up in the head.

 

I mean honestly. 6 WEEKS without sex from your spouse?

 

WTF.

 

I so agree with this. If I wanted a roomate or friend I would have one but a marriage/relationship includes sex. and sexual intamacy. one in 6 weeks that's crap.

 

I never could understand why women withhold sex from thier partners and act like it's dirty or the guy is a perv for wanting it. And then act surprised when the guy leaves or has an affair.

[blind_otter]

Anyone who dates me has to deal with my crap. "I have needs" and all that. Well so does he.

 

How selfish to demand that my needs for emotional fulfillment, help around the house, whatever - that I demand that my needs be met, yet for some reason find excuses to refuse to meet his needs?

 

Everybody knows that guys need to drain the prostate every once in a while. I mean, they get prostate cancer and s*** if they DON'T. And WTF are you doing married, if you have to wank to get your jollies?