Lap dancing is it cheating

[ronnieromance]

You guys are hardcore...Ladies, actually. I, for one, don't think it is. I mean, I've been on both sides and, generally, women who think it is are very, very insecure.

 

There is no intimacy between a stripper and the average patron, no penetration...hell, not even a kiss. He's an ATM machine to her, if you want to know the truth. What's sexual about it?

 

I flirt with attractive women all the time on the webdate chatrooms. I'm single now but I've even done it when **gasp** I had a girlfriend. There was never anything more than fantasy.

 

The problem isn't that he got a lapdance. What bothers a lot of you is that he was possibly attracted to another woman. He may or may not haver done anything. The root that needs to be dealt with is the fact that people don't stop being attracted to other people just because they are involved. You are yourself first and a partner to your partner second.

 

Repressing attraction is unhealthy for anyone and it will lead to resentment.

 

OP, are you not attracted to other men? You never think about being with anyone else?

 

 

-R-

[catgirl1927]

You guys are hardcore...Ladies, actually. I, for one, don't think it is. I mean, I've been on both sides and, generally, women who think it is are very, very insecure.

 

There is no intimacy between a stripper and the average patron, no penetration...hell, not even a kiss. He's an ATM machine to her, if you want to know the truth. What's sexual about it?

 

I flirt with attractive women all the time on the webdate chatrooms. I'm single now but I've even done it when **gasp** I had a girlfriend. There was never anything more than fantasy.

 

The problem isn't that he got a lapdance. What bothers a lot of you is that he was possibly attracted to another woman. He may or may not haver done anything. The root that needs to be dealt with is the fact that people don't stop being attracted to other people just because they are involved. You are yourself first and a partner to your partner second.

 

Repressing attraction is unhealthy for anyone and it will lead to resentment.

 

OP, are you not attracted to other men? You never think about being with anyone else?

 

 

-R-

 

Are you serious? What's sexual about it?

 

I am the first to admit that I am insecure. But to pretend that guys don't have sex with strippers is inane. And if someone loves you, they are faithful to you. If they are not faithful, they don't love you.

 

If repressing attraction is unhealthy, let me guess, repressing sexual urges is probably downright dangerous, right?

 

It's not about attraction. You can see a beautiful woman and be attracted to her without sucking on her nipples. I bet if he found out I was letting other guys suck on my nipples while I rubbed all over them naked he'd be a little upset.

 

What you are basically saying is that a man should be able to have sex with whomever he wants and if a woman is secure in herself then she'll just be happy that he eventually comes home to her.

 

So if my boyfriend wants to go to a club and have sex with a strange woman in the bathroom, I shouldn't think that means that he doesn't love me. I should be a moron and send him money to help pay for it?

[Guest]

Prostitutes only think about the cash too... doesnt mean having sex with one IS NOT cheating! It certainly is cheating!

[ronnieromance]

Are you serious? What's sexual about it?

 

I am the first to admit that I am insecure. But to pretend that guys don't have sex with strippers is inane. And if someone loves you, they are faithful to you. If they are not faithful, they don't love you.

 

If repressing attraction is unhealthy, let me guess, repressing sexual urges is probably downright dangerous, right?

 

It's not about attraction. You can see a beautiful woman and be attracted to her without sucking on her nipples. I bet if he found out I was letting other guys suck on my nipples while I rubbed all over them naked he'd be a little upset.

 

What you are basically saying is that a man should be able to have sex with whomever he wants and if a woman is secure in herself then she'll just be happy that he eventually comes home to her.

 

So if my boyfriend wants to go to a club and have sex with a strange woman in the bathroom, I shouldn't think that means that he doesn't love me. I should be a moron and send him money to help pay for it?

 

Listen, I level with you as a guy who actually dates real, secure, strong, independant, height-weight-proportional women; The reason I don't frequent strip clubs is that I'm not likely to go home with any of them. As someone who has dated a couple of strippers I can also say that, I have never had a nipple in my mouth while she was at work, even when it would be later.

 

What makes you think some stripper is going to let any and everybody lick her? I can't beleive you have me essentially defening strippers, but you seem to have gotten your ideas of what typically goes on from Springer.

 

 

 

 

-R-

[MarnieGirl]

What a liar. What else did he lie about?

[barfool]

And if someone loves you, they are faithful to you. If they are not faithful, they don't love you.

 

No, that is what love means to you. There are others that think differently. It's all about what you and your loved one are comfortable with and that each of you is happy with whatever arrangement you have.

 

If repressing attraction is unhealthy, let me guess, repressing sexual urges is probably downright dangerous, right?

 

It's not that repressing attraction is unhealthy it's just that it is not natural to only be attracted to one person on the planet. If you think that your SO will only ever be attracted to you then you are lying to yourself.

 

What you are basically saying is that a man should be able to have sex with whomever he wants and if a woman is secure in herself then she'll just be happy that he eventually comes home to her.

 

No, that is just an arrangement that works for some people that are very secure and confident in themselves and their partner's love and also who don't abide by society's ideas of what is morally correct. It is absolutely not for everyone. The important thing is that however you and your SO conduct your relationship both of you are happy.

[ronnieromance]

Thank you Barfool. I'm glad the concept isn't totally lost. Catgirl, I'm a seeker of truth. In doing so I have had to come to grips with a lot of things that people live their entire lives in denial about. Sometimes it is painful. Ultimately, it is liberating.

 

In terms of relationships a biggie was that, any woman I've dated will continue to find other men attractive. If she did before I met her, and she will after I met her, chances are she will while we're together. It's OK.

 

I actually tried to deny the fact I was attracted to other women while I had girlfriends. I never cheated, but the fact that I felt I had to hide it was a seed of secretiveness that didn't need to be planted. I was always taught how wrong it was to see another woman as attractive and blah, blah, blah.

 

We're human beings. We are animals, and as such, we exist in the physical world and are thus governed by the same rules that ultimately govern every other creature that mates. We simply happen to be rational and complicate it more than they do.

 

All I'm saying is that there is no shame in being a human. There is shame in hurting your SO, but what constitutes pain should be a bit more of a realistic, objectively-decided and honest thing.

 

Being insecure and thus, hating strippers because they probably aren't, consequently trying to guilt your SO into pretending he doesn't find other women attractive, and therefore puting him in a position to "lie" because YOU can't be honest about your feelings and/or have lingering guilt issues is not a valid reason the be hurt.

 

Emotinal abuse, or him actually puting his penis inside the stripper, when you have an understanding that your relationship will exclude such behavior, is. A lap dance != puting a penis in a stripper. It doesn't equal nipple sucking either. Sorry.

 

 

-R-

[ridingthebulls]

sexualized entertainm ent. when the whore stripper puts her mouth on your guys cock, still just entertainment?

[Guest]

" I personally have a problem with it because I hear all the time that men are supposed to go get turned on by a woman they actually find attractive and I'm supposed to be so grateful that they come home, close their eyes and use my body to finish what they started."

 

Totally agree with this!

 

Also, if fun for men means getting aroused by other women, will they be able to accept that fun for women may mean having sex with other men?

Would they still think that is just a matter of opinion?

If men decide what constitutes fun for them and expect us to accept, why can’t we set our own rules, decide of fun means for us and expect men to just accept it?

[catgirl1927]

All I'm saying is that there is no shame in being a human. There is shame in hurting your SO, but what constitutes pain should be a bit more of a realistic, objectively-decided and honest thing.

 

Being insecure and thus, hating strippers because they probably aren't, consequently trying to guilt your SO into pretending he doesn't find other women attractive, and therefore puting him in a position to "lie" because YOU can't be honest about your feelings and/or have lingering guilt issues is not a valid reason the be hurt.

 

Emotinal abuse, or him actually puting his penis inside the stripper, when you have an understanding that your relationship will exclude such behavior, is. A lap dance != puting a penis in a stripper. It doesn't equal nipple sucking either. Sorry.

 

 

-R-

 

See, I think you're deliberately misunderstanding what I'm saying.

 

You're saying that because I don't want my BF at a strip club having sex with someone else means I'm insecure, and that if I was a good person I would be ok with him doing that.

 

I don't know what strip clubs you have been to, but the upscale places here are basically just whorehouses. Those girls will do whatever you pay them to do. I think to think that a lapdance isn't sexual is just... silly.

 

I realize that people find other people attractive. But I don't believe that just because we find someone attractive we should act on it, which is what a lapdance is.

 

I've said before, if people want to have open relationships then that's fine. But it's not ok with me.

 

This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I'm sorry, I honestly believe that if you love someone and want to be with them, you want to be with only them. I think allowing a man to f*** whomever he wants is something extremely insecure people do, not something healthy, secure people do. You have to think you're not worth it, that you don't deserve someone who is faithful. No one HAS to be with me. If he'd rather be with a stripper, more power to him. He has, and he's choosing not to be with one any more.

 

I just disagree that demanding the respect of fidelity makes me insecure.

[catgirl1927]

All I'm saying is that there is no shame in being a human. There is shame in hurting your SO, but what constitutes pain should be a bit more of a realistic, objectively-decided and honest thing.

 

-R-

 

I'm really trying to understand this part. Who decides? what do you mean by objective?

 

I have been told that because the sex was meaningless, and he didn't mean to hurt me, that I had no right to be hurt.

 

Are you saying that's fair? That I'm wrong, and that guys should be able to cheat and then change the definition of cheating so it fits the situation?

 

I say that if a stripper is doing something to him that he wouldn't want me to do to someone else, then it's cheating.

 

If it would be cheating for me to go to a club and pull up my skirt and let a guy eat me out, then it's cheating for him to get a blow job.

 

I also believe that the reason men go to strip clubs is either because of a bachelor party, which men see as a free pass to cheat and is a totally different rant, or because they are dissatisfied with their girlfriends. I feel that if he is unhappy with sex with me, he should either talk to me about it or break it off. Why stay with someone if you don't want to?

[Toni_no12002]

The whole thing about this is that i agree with both sides.It sounds selfish but people do find other people attractive but they dont want there SO to find someone else attractive.I dont know about others but it turns me into the green eyed moster.I know it would be stupid of me to even think my boyfriend wouldnt find someone else attractive.But at the same time i think seeing someone in the street and thinking they are attractive is ok whereas deliberatley going out of your way to go see strippers isnt right.Your deliberatley going to see other naked women which isnt really right.

 

I wouldnt exactly say going to see strippers is cheating if there is no touching involved.But its not right in my eyes.Fair enough if its once in a blue moon say for a laugh because it was someones stag do.

 

I say dont do anything you wouldnt want your partner to do.

[catgirl1927]

The whole thing about this is that i agree with both sides.It sounds selfish but people do find other people attractive but they dont want there SO to find someone else attractive.I dont know about others but it turns me into the green eyed moster.I know it would be stupid of me to even think my boyfriend wouldnt find someone else attractive.But at the same time i think seeing someone in the street and thinking they are attractive is ok whereas deliberatley going out of your way to go see strippers isnt right.Your deliberatley going to see other naked women which isnt really right.

 

I wouldnt exactly say going to see strippers is cheating if there is no touching involved.But its not right in my eyes.Fair enough if its once in a blue moon say for a laugh because it was someones stag do.

 

I say dont do anything you wouldnt want your partner to do.

 

This is a calmer, more rational version of what I'm trying to say.

[Toni_no12002]

I would have said that strippers are for blokes who arent getting any,single blokes.

[barfool]

This whole topic I find really interesting and especially pertaining to my life because I have been on both sides. When I was younger and still very much insecure and depressive etc. I had very strong emotions that I could not understand or control including jealousy. I was with a guy for years who went to a strip club and got a lap dance and I flipped out. He wants to have sex with her! I'm not good enough for him! He cheated! Blah blah blah

 

Years later and I have a much different opinion. To say I've grown up a lot is an understatement. I know that used to feel threatened by the whole strip club/porn thing, that those things were taking his love and attention away from me, that he would leave me because of it. Wrong wrong wrong. I didn't own him and I certainly did not devour his human nature. If he loves me then he'll stay if he doesn't then he'll leave. I can't control that or prevent it.

 

To love someone for me is to have a deep emotional connection to them, a desire to make them happy and to want to be with them. That's it. It has nothing to do with "foresaking all others" and such. That is an agreement some people make that is unneccessary for a healthy relationship. It definately takes a lot more understanding of emotions and where they come from to be able to enjoy one where the partners can go to strip clubs and so on.

 

End of rant, sorry.

[Toni_no12002]

sometimes though i think in relationships you have to make sacrifices.So if one partner doesnt like there SO going to strip clubs maybe they could come to some arrangement.My boyfriend didnt like me going to pubs and clubs all the time with my friends.I like going out drinking and stuff.So i dont go as much but only as long as hes willing to do things for me.Its the way relationships work.

 

I admit i used to feel threatened by porn because my boyfriend watched it quite abit but i got help and im not as bothered any more also he doesnt look at it anymore anyway.Even though my bf doesnt go to strip clubs i wouldnt like it.Maybe if it was a stag do i wouldnt mind as much as long as it wasnt a regular thing.

 

I dont think though that discussing with your partner though about him going to strip clubs bothers you is pathetic because everyone is different and we dont like different things.The bloke should try to be understanding in the situation.If he didnt try to some agreement where we was both happy id say he isnt worth it,id dump him then he can leer at em as much as he likes.

 

People may think thats unfair but a relationship will never work when one persons unhappy and they both can come to an agreement in which both parties are happy.

[ronnieromance]

See, I think you're deliberately misunderstanding what I'm saying.

 

You're saying that because I don't want my BF at a strip club having sex with someone else means I'm insecure, and that if I was a good person I would be ok with him doing that.

 

I don't know what strip clubs you have been to, but the upscale places here are basically just whorehouses. Those girls will do whatever you pay them to do. I think to think that a lapdance isn't sexual is just... silly.

 

I realize that people find other people attractive. But I don't believe that just because we find someone attractive we should act on it, which is what a lapdance is.

 

I've said before, if people want to have open relationships then that's fine. But it's not ok with me.

 

This is going to piss a lot of people off, but I'm sorry, I honestly believe that if you love someone and want to be with them, you want to be with only them. I think allowing a man to f*** whomever he wants is something extremely insecure people do, not something healthy, secure people do. You have to think you're not worth it, that you don't deserve someone who is faithful. No one HAS to be with me. If he'd rather be with a stripper, more power to him. He has, and he's choosing not to be with one any more.

 

I just disagree that demanding the respect of fidelity makes me insecure.

 

I'm not misunderstanding you. I'm saying, plain and simple, that most strippers aren't going to f*** your man. A lapdance doesn't equal a blow job or sex.

 

WHy you keep assuming worse case scenarios, I can only guess, but whatever it is, you take women who take their clothes off for money, to heart.

 

So back to missunderstnading you...No, I couldn't. I used to think just like you. You're trying to make going to a strip club into the most vile act of psuedo or actual prostitution there is. While I'll admit I don't generally like the atmosphere, I'll say they aren't that bad.

 

Look at this without your green spectacles; You have a business. One that sells liquor. In selling liquor, they fall under the jurisdiction of ATF. ATF has this strange penchant for conducting raids. Do you really think, in an establishment that makes money from the door, the bar, the girls and the house is going to be willing to lose an entire business over some girls doing the naughty with your man for $100 and keeping it all?

 

No, they won't. So what are you up in arms about? You have some girl sitting on your mans lap milking $20 bills from him. Nothing more. Your anger is missplaced.

 

As for the relationship angle, it's pretty obvious you have some pain left over from men being dishonest and cheating on you. It sucks, but you need to let go of that. I really don't know how to explain this so you'll understand, but I think it would be good for you to meet some new folks. Why don't you get on webdate, or some other site with chatrooms nad interact and smile? Meet some new people?

 

 

 

-R-

[ronnieromance]

I'm really trying to understand this part. Who decides? what do you mean by objective?

 

I have been told that because the sex was meaningless, and he didn't mean to hurt me, that I had no right to be hurt.

 

Are you saying that's fair? That I'm wrong, and that guys should be able to cheat and then change the definition of cheating so it fits the situation?

 

I say that if a stripper is doing something to him that he wouldn't want me to do to someone else, then it's cheating.

 

If it would be cheating for me to go to a club and pull up my skirt and let a guy eat me out, then it's cheating for him to get a blow job.

 

I also believe that the reason men go to strip clubs is either because of a bachelor party, which men see as a free pass to cheat and is a totally different rant, or because they are dissatisfied with their girlfriends. I feel that if he is unhappy with sex with me, he should either talk to me about it or break it off. Why stay with someone if you don't want to?

 

 

The couple decides. Cheating is relative to the set boundaries of a relationship. I'm not saying that you haven't been cheated on, or that it is excusable, or that it doesn't hurt. I am saying that you're blowing a lapdance out of proportion.

 

You really sound like some men have made you really hurt. I'm sorry. Seriously. It makes me sad that people hurt each other that way.

 

I'll pretty much agree with your last paragraph...although I 'll add the caveat that WE DON'T ALL FEEL IT'S A FREE PASS DURING A BACHELOR PARTY. Men were pretty much all born with penises. That, you can consider a constant. We don't all suck at being people, though. Look in different places. Ask different questions. Be more discerning. Hell, be a hard-ass and take the position that anyone is lucky to have your free time. And Mean it.

 

There are better people out there.

[catgirl1927]

Actually, I have a boyfriend, a pretty serious one, and we've worked out this strip club business. He's not the kind of man who thinks that bachelor parties are for cheating. He's dated strippers, pro cheerleaders, models, all those types and doesn't like how promiscuous they are. Most of his friends are the exact same way.

 

He doesn't want me to be upset about strip clubs because he thinks it's an insult to him if I think he'd rather have a girl that like than me, or that he'd risk our relationship over something so pointless. He's not the "but she meant nothing to me" type.

 

I know he's going to go, I know stuff that would upset me might happen, and I know that he loves me and respects me and would never throw away what we have in order to have some random person rub all over him.

 

Going to a club isn't cheating. Noticing how attractive those girls are isn't cheating. Doing anything sexual is cheating with them. Lap dances are sexual.

 

You seem to be assuming that I'm some loser who can't get a date. That's just not true. I feel very strongly about this because I think that a lot of men use women's insecurities to get away with treating them badly.

 

We do know this one guy, the BIL of one of his best friends, who since his wife had a baby and has put on a lot of weight, goes to strip clubs so he can get hard, then comes home and f***s his wife, pretending that she's the stripper. I would rather die than have a man use me like that. She feels bad about her body, and doesn't object, because he has her convinced that because she gained weight she deserves that treatment.

 

If you want me to say that lap dances aren't cheating, I'm sorry, they just are. You keep saying they're not becuase they're not even that great, well, then why are you spending all that money on them? You said yourself that you don't go to those clubs very often because it's not satisfying.

 

And barfool, if you're happy that way, then I wish you the best. I couldn't do that. You're probably happier than me, because you don't worry about anything. I don't do threesomes, and I don't let any man other than my boyfriend touch me.

 

I do know a girl who lets her guy do anything he wants. She's cheating on him too. She lets him cheat because then she thinks what she's doing isn't so bad. Just a word to the wise for all you guys who want a girl who doesn't care if you're with someone else.

[barfool]

And barfool, if you're happy that way, then I wish you the best. I couldn't do that. You're probably happier than me, because you don't worry about anything. I don't do threesomes, and I don't let any man other than my boyfriend touch me.

 

Thanks, I think. It's not that I don't worry about anything. It's just that I find out what it is that is making me feel jealous or possessive and then look for my thoughts that are irrational. After I locate irrational thoughts those feelings aren't a problem. I still get jealous, it's natural. But I own my jealousy. It's not anyone's fault but my own. Nobody "makes" me feel a certain way. They do something then I think about it then I have the feeling.

[ronnieromance]

Thanks, I think. It's not that I don't worry about anything. It's just that I find out what it is that is making me feel jealous or possessive and then look for my thoughts that are irrational. After I locate irrational thoughts those feelings aren't a problem. I still get jealous, it's natural. But I own my jealousy. It's not anyone's fault but my own. Nobody "makes" me feel a certain way. They do something then I think about it then I have the feeling.

 

Do I know you?

 

 

 

 

-R-

[catgirl1927]

Thanks, I think. It's not that I don't worry about anything. It's just that I find out what it is that is making me feel jealous or possessive and then look for my thoughts that are irrational. After I locate irrational thoughts those feelings aren't a problem. I still get jealous, it's natural. But I own my jealousy. It's not anyone's fault but my own. Nobody "makes" me feel a certain way. They do something then I think about it then I have the feeling.

 

I didn't mean to be mean to you at all. You sound very together, it's impressive.

 

These are very good guidelines for dealing with feelings like those. I try try TRY to do that when I start feeling jealous. Most of the time I'm able to unpack it all and realize that I'm creating drama within myself and making a big deal out of nothing, and if I catch it in time no one ever needs to know about it.

 

I really don't blame or control my boyfriend at all. He's going to do what he's going to do. But I have my interpretation of certain actions, and I've been clear about it. Should he take some action that he knows I consider to be cheating, then he's obviously made the choice not to be with me any more. I can't control anyone. But I can control what I do, and so that's what I do. Or, that's what I try to do...

[Toni_no12002]

I think that if you let your man go to a strip club all the time then maybe you dont care enough.Why would anyone want there man drooling over someone else?

 

In this day and age every man nearly goes to strip clubs.In the past no man would have gone near.I dread to think what will become off the future when its actually ok for every one to cheat because to me it seems its going that way.

 

why do people actually get in relationships with people when they cant control thereselves.If you want to go see strippers stay single.

[catgirl1927]

That's a good point, toni. Guys think it's so awesome when a girl doesn't care if they cheat. But shouldn't they wonder why?

[Toni_no12002]

if a girl doesnt care why they cheat then she has no respect for herself or she never cared about him in the first place.