Being *rejected* can be so funny!

[blind_otter]

I also find it interesting that MY behaviour is being grilled but the behaviour of the bully has received little if any condemnation. Why is that? Is MY behaviour being condemned because it didn't *conform* to some unwritten social more? Was I supposed to allow myself to be beaten up by that thug... is that the expected thing... the so-called *weaker* person should be beaten up because *that's the way it is*?

 

I have returned, to the warren of darkness and despair.

 

The bully is not on here talking about his behavior in that interaction. Therefore, all advice is directed at you, the OP, rather than some person who exists somewhere out there.

 

Since you posted, we direct comments at you, because you can control your own behavior, whereas you cannot control the behavior or reactions of others. Therefore, any comment on his behavior is a moot point.

[SmoochieFace]

I have returned, to the warren of darkness and despair.

 

The bully is not on here talking about his behavior in that interaction. Therefore, all advice is directed at you, the OP, rather than some person who exists somewhere out there.

 

Since you posted, we direct comments at you, because you can control your own behavior, whereas you cannot control the behavior or reactions of others. Therefore, any comment on his behavior is a moot point.

 

All right... since I still have not gotten an answer to this I will ask again.

 

WHY is it wrong to laugh at someone who is taunting me with violence?

[blind_otter]

It's hard to explain because it seems so intrinsic to me, something that I know innately. You said that you're not interested in learning about bullies.

 

The explanation of their behavior is part of the explanation as to why it's wrong to laugh at others' violence toward you.

 

Bullies bully because they are sad, insecure people who often come from backgrounds of violence. It's hard to learn how to control yourself or not get really angry when your parents do not control themselves around you, or with you.

 

The bully feels bad about themselves, and they seek to put others down to create an artificial sense of superiority. To me, this is not wrong or bad -- it's pitiful and sad. To laugh at someone who is so pitiful, who thinks so little of themselves that the only way they relate to others is through violence, seems violent to me -- we do not laugh at those who deserve our pity.

[SmoochieFace]

It's hard to explain because it seems so intrinsic to me, something that I know innately. You said that you're not interested in learning about bullies.

 

The explanation of their behavior is part of the explanation as to why it's wrong to laugh at others' violence toward you.

 

Bullies bully because they are sad, insecure people who often come from backgrounds of violence. It's hard to learn how to control yourself or not get really angry when your parents do not control themselves around you, or with you.

 

The bully feels bad about themselves, and they seek to put others down to create an artificial sense of superiority. To me, this is not wrong or bad -- it's pitiful and sad. To laugh at someone who is so pitiful, who thinks so little of themselves that the only way they relate to others is through violence, seems violent to me -- we do not laugh at those who deserve our pity.

 

Interesting.

 

So these fools are *sad*, *insecure*, etc., right? So let me ask you this then?

 

What should I have done in that situation? Reason with him? Give him a big sloppy kiss and tell him "Awww, I understand. You've had a *beep* life but you can take it out on me, it's all right."?

 

Look, I am not going to be someone's *whipping post*. People who are like that need to find better ways of dealing with their issues... physically lashing out at people isn't gonna cut it AND it definitely doesn't cut it with me.

 

I made a decision from that point on to never be a victim. I will not allow anyone to play their silly little games with me. To me, my decision was one of empowerment and it has served me quite well. It's gotten to the point where some people are now scared of me. What a definitel turn-around... yet I am mature enough to not lash out and utilise violence against people. That's just dumb.

 

Just looking out for Number One.

[Guest]

Anyway... doesn't really matter any more. I have come to the realisation that any effort on my part to understand others and even *join in* are fruitless - and I am not interested in doing things that don't produce results.

 

People *have* been explaining others' actions to you and you're not taking it in. People who behave badly usually do so because they have problems. Therefore to scorn or hate them for their bad behaviour is unwarranted; more than that, it's unkind.

 

Ever been *picked on* cuz you're *different*? Ever had some bully taunt you while you're minding your own business?

 

You seem to think you are the only person to be so badly 'victimized'. Everybody got picked on for something or other when they were kids. You were not unique in this. But you are so focused on you and your suffering you may not have noticed what was happening to others.

 

Did he deserve what happened to him? In my mind, yes he did. ANYONE who attempts to cross any boundary of mine will pay - and THAT was what happened in that case.

 

Oh my, aren't we the King of the Planet? You don't get to judge what people 'deserve' because you don't understand the whys of their behaviour. You make assumptions about them - become judge, jury, and executioner all on your own. Nobody should do that.

 

I also find it interesting that MY behaviour is being grilled but the behaviour of the bully has received little if any condemnation. Why is that? Is MY behaviour being condemned because it didn't *conform* to some unwritten social more?

 

You purport to want to understand people and how people should and do interact, yet when these things are explained to you, you reject all the explanations. You should *NOT* laugh at, beat up, have contempt for others. And what follows, obviously, is that you should *NOT* display those reactions.

 

You want the rules of social interaction? There they are, for starters. Quit justifying what you do if you genuinely want to learn to do better.

 

Was I supposed to allow myself to be beaten up by that thug... is that the expected thing... the so-called *weaker* person should be beaten up because *that's the way it is*?

 

That wasn't your only choice. You could also have run away. Beating people makes you as bad as the people beating you. Doing physical harm is the resort of people incapable of reacting in a more mature and balanced way.

 

WHY is it wrong to laugh at someone who is taunting me with violence

 

What Otter said. It's not only wrong, it's stupid because you may inflame that person to the extent that he will carry out the violence. A lot of angry people also have trouble with controlling their impulses; if you make him angrier by laughing, what you may earn for your troubles is serious injury or even death.

 

The MATURE thing to do is walk away.

[blind_otter]

What should I have done in that situation? Reason with him? Give him a big sloppy kiss and tell him "Awww, I understand. You've had a *beep* life but you can take it out on me, it's all right."?

 

I made a decision from that point on to never be a victim. I will not allow anyone to play their silly little games with me. To me, my decision was one of empowerment and it has served me quite well. It's gotten to the point where some people are now scared of me. What a definitel turn-around... yet I am mature enough to not lash out and utilise violence against people. That's just dumb.

 

No, you take things to the opposite extreme I notice, as if to make the other person ridiculous because you feel humiliated or embarassed on some level. I never said that. The best thing is to look them in the eye and tell them that you feel sorry for them.

 

My mother is bipolar, and she acts out in weird ways to get reactions from me. The other day she told me she wrote me out of her will.

 

I reacted calmly (I know she just says stuff to piss me off) and said, "I don't want your money, mom, and I love you anyway. I will still come and visit you guys. I am not hurt. You do what you need to do."

 

I feel bad for her, that she doesn't understand how to relate to people. I think that her life is and always has been very sad. To laugh at her would make me no better than her.

 

Instead of deflecting the violence and turning it against her (laugh at her), I absorb it and change it into compassion. Thus, the situation becomes defused. She is too confused to hit me (which she did often in the past, when my older sister laughed at her anger), and she stops to look at herself.

 

Problem solved. And I don't shame her into feeling something that I think she should feel.

 

But when I read these choices you make, to deliberately push people away, isolate yourself, and create this mask of superiority to bolster up and obviously inseucre ego -- it's like you make these blanket statements to try to create a world that is black and white, with definitive answers and morals and judgements. The real world isn't like that, and it's confusing and hurtful to deal with the complexities of moral gray areas. I know that. I have difficulties as well.

 

The difference I think is that my first tactic is to examine how I affect others, and elicit reactions through MY behavior. I suppose your developmental issues make it virtually impossible for you to reflect on how you can elicit behaviors from others.

[Guest]

yet I am mature enough to not lash out and utilise violence against people

 

Scorning someone is doing them emotional violence. As you well know. Bullies have feelings; if they didn't, they wouldn't try to protect themselves by pushing others around. Kinda like

 

I made a decision from that point on to never be a victim. I will not allow anyone to play their silly little games with me. To me, my decision was one of empowerment and it has served me quite well. It's gotten to the point where some people are now scared of me

 

I'm guessing those people consider you a bully. Ever think of that? So you are, functionally, inside the brain of the very person you claim to condemn.

[SmoochieFace]

No, you take things to the opposite extreme I notice, as if to make the other person ridiculous because you feel humiliated or embarassed on some level. I never said that. The best thing is to look them in the eye and tell them that you feel sorry for them.

 

I don't feel humiliated or embarassed in those situations. The one who is carrying on and acting nutty should feel that way though.

 

 

My mother is bipolar, and she acts out in weird ways to get reactions from me. The other day she told me she wrote me out of her will.

 

I reacted calmly (I know she just says stuff to piss me off) and said, "I don't want your money, mom, and I love you anyway. I will still come and visit you guys. I am not hurt. You do what you need to do."

 

I feel bad for her, that she doesn't understand how to relate to people. I think that her life is and always has been very sad. To laugh at her would make me no better than her.

 

Instead of deflecting the violence and turning it against her (laugh at her), I absorb it and change it into compassion. Thus, the situation becomes defused. She is too confused to hit me (which she did often in the past, when my older sister laughed at her anger), and she stops to look at herself.

 

Problem solved. And I don't shame her into feeling something that I think she should feel.

 

Yeah, but that's not an instance of physical violence. She took a *shot* at you by writing you out of her will. If my Mommy Dearest did something like that, for whatever reason, I would have just turned my back and walked away. I wouldn't care. Probably not the reaction she would want as I am beginning to see that people want some sort of acknowledgement - even if they do something *bad* to you. That is something that I do not do in cases of *mental violence* but in those involving potential physical violence I react only with contempt and laughter. There seems to be a diference between the two for me. *shrugging*.

 

 

But when I read these choices you make, to deliberately push people away, isolate yourself, and create this mask of superiority to bolster up and obviously inseucre ego -- it's like you make these blanket statements to try to create a world that is black and white, with definitive answers and morals and judgements. The real world isn't like that, and it's confusing and hurtful to deal with the complexities of moral gray areas. I know that. I have difficulties as well.

 

I push away those people who aren't *right* for me... not that anyone really wants me around in the first place. And this isn't about *ego*... I sometimes wonder if I even have one.

[blind_otter]

Then I recommend that you do some research on the internet regarding what an ego is. I assure you that you do have one.

 

Otherwise you would have no concept of the difference between "self" and "other" -- quite clearly you do, as you understand what "pushing others away" means. If you had no ego, you would not understand what "other" meant, and you would have trouble defining boundaries.

[SmoochieFace]

Then I recommend that you do some research on the internet regarding what an ego is. I assure you that you do have one.

 

Otherwise you would have no concept of the difference between "self" and "other" -- quite clearly you do, as you understand what "pushing others away" means. If you had no ego, you would not understand what "other" meant, and you would have trouble defining boundaries.

 

Yeah, well, when I hear the word *ego* I think of that thing that most people seem to have - a self-centered, *I'm the s****, *cool*, etc. attitude. I don't have an *ego* in that sense as I don't not feel those ways about myself.

[SmoochieFace]

Perhaps this would be prime to start a "Ask the guy with AS" thread? It seems like it would be a great first step in the fight against ignorance.

 

I think that would be a great idea for a thread but my past experiences tell me that there would be very little activity within such a thread.

 

See... *disorders* such as AS tend to take a back seat to topics such as cheating, self-esteem issues, drug and alcohol abuse, and the ubiquitous "why can't I get a date?" and "does he/she like me?" threads...

[lindya]

I think that would be a great idea for a thread but my past experiences tell me that there would be very little activity within such a thread.

 

See... *disorders* such as AS tend to take a back seat to topics such as cheating, self-esteem issues, drug and alcohol abuse, and the ubiquitous "why can't I get a date?" and "does he/she like me?" threads...

 

 

Does it really matter if someone's "cheating" thread gets more hits than a thread you start about AS? A lot of people come to Loveshack because they've been involved in situations that involve cheating, low self esteem and substance abuse. Naturally, they're going to gravitate to the threads dealing with those subjects because they're looking for help - or because they have personal experience that might equip them to help someone else.

 

I think you've tended to get quite a high response rate to threads where you've discussed AS. Admittedly that's because those threads have often taken a very contentious turn. What's the harm in posting a non-contentious thread along the lines that Tinman suggested to see how it goes? "Specialist" threads may be contributed to less infrequently, but often they tend to be live for a long time.

[SmoochieFace]

Admittedly that's because those threads have often taken a very contentious turn.

 

Or they have degenerated into sordid *sex threads*... like most threads here usually do.

 

 

What's the harm in posting a non-contentious thread along the lines that Tinman suggested to see how it goes? "Specialist" threads may be contributed to less infrequently, but often they tend to be live for a long time.

 

No harm but please see above...

 

We shall see... I will decide whether to start one or not when I feel it is best.

[Lil Honey]

Smooch: That's more like it (an easier tone, I mean).

[SmoochieFace]

Smooch: That's more like it (an easier tone, I mean).

 

Ah yes... an *easier tone*. That's what people seem to want more than hard honesty. Why is that? What is it about hard and brutal honesty that intimidates people?

 

I dunno, folks (well, the two or three viewing this thread ) but I am beginning to see that I just don't *fit in* here. Hell, I don't seem to *fit in* anywhere and THIS is why I don't approach people for anything. Most people have preconceived notions about what others should be like and if you don't live up to them... well, you're out on your ass. No point in taking any initiative when the odds are stacked against you, right?

 

Folks, I don't just make this stuff up... this is all based on real-life experience.

[lindya]

Ah yes... an *easier tone*. That's what people seem to want more than hard honesty. Why is that? What is it about hard and brutal honesty that intimidates people?

 

I think hard, brutal honesty only really works when the person has managed to apply it to themselves before they start applying it to anyone else. That involves looking at yourself through the eyes of your most outspoken critic, and considering as objectively as possible whether they might have a point.

Identifying and pulling aside your ego defence mechanisms in order to face up to certain truths about yourself, your thinking patterns, perspective on certain experiences you've had etc.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I don't think a person has strived to be unflatteringly honest with themselves about their own flaws and weaknesses (and it's just a gut instinct I get, based on the way a person talks about him or herself and the level of insight they seem to have or lack) I'm far less likely to entertain any blunt honesty they might want to direct at me or anyone else.

[blind_otter]

Ah yes... an *easier tone*. That's what people seem to want more than hard honesty. Why is that? What is it about hard and brutal honesty that intimidates people?

 

I dunno, folks (well, the two or three viewing this thread ) but I am beginning to see that I just don't *fit in* here. Hell, I don't seem to *fit in* anywhere and THIS is why I don't approach people for anything. Most people have preconceived notions about what others should be like and if you don't live up to them... well, you're out on your ass. No point in taking any initiative when the odds are stacked against you, right?

 

Folks, I don't just make this stuff up... this is all based on real-life experience.

 

That's just how people are. It's why "polite conversation" was invented -- so you have something to talk about that won't rile people up.

 

And that seems like a defeatist attitude. Like a little kid that says "It won't work anyways, why should I try?"

 

And what do you tell the kid? "You don't know what's going to happen. Just because it didn't work one way before, doesn't mean it won't work if you try a different way. Just TRY."

 

I've had countless tiffs with my BF's kid about this. Just TRY IT. You can bitch all you want while you're doing it, but just do it.

 

You act as if you're the only person to feel left out, or unaccepted.

 

The fact of the matter is -- everyone feels this way at one time or another. I do all the time. YOu can focus on it all the time and let it bring you down, or keep trying new, different ways.

 

That's what problem-solving is all about. You should know that. You don't get anywhere in mathematics if you look at an equation and just say, "I can't do this. I give up." Well damn right, nothing will get done with an attitude like that.

[blind_otter]

I think hard, brutal honesty only really works when the person has managed to apply it to themselves before they start applying it to anyone else. That involves looking at yourself through the eyes of your most outspoken critic, and considering as objectively as possible whether they might have a point.

Identifying and pulling aside your ego defence mechanisms in order to face up to certain truths about yourself, your thinking patterns, perspective on certain experiences you've had etc.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I don't think a person has strived to be unflatteringly honest with themselves about their own flaws and weaknesses (and it's just a gut instinct I get, based on the way a person talks about him or herself and the level of insight they seem to have or lack) I'm far less likely to entertain any blunt honesty they might want to direct at me or anyone else.

 

You can speak for me, Lindya. For me, the person loses credibility. I categorize them as "crazy" along with my mother, and usually disregard their "brutal honesty".

[SmoochieFace]

I think hard, brutal honesty only really works when the person has managed to apply it to themselves before they start applying it to anyone else. That involves looking at yourself through the eyes of your most outspoken critic, and considering as objectively as possible whether they might have a point.

 

Identifying and pulling aside your ego defence mechanisms in order to face up to certain truths about yourself, your thinking patterns, perspective on certain experiences you've had etc.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I don't think a person has strived to be unflatteringly honest with themselves about their own flaws and weaknesses (and it's just a gut instinct I get, based on the way a person talks about him or herself and the level of insight they seem to have or lack) I'm far less likely to entertain any blunt honesty they might want to direct at me or anyone else.

 

...

 

Oh, I've been quite honest with myself. I have no reason not to be. I know who I am and I know what my *issues* are. And why not... no-one knows me better than me.

 

Since you suggested it... I will commence an *Ask the Aspie* thread tomorrow morning... should be interesting.

[SmoochieFace]

That's just how people are. It's why "polite conversation" was invented -- so you have something to talk about that won't rile people up.

 

And that seems like a defeatist attitude. Like a little kid that says "It won't work anyways, why should I try?"

 

And what do you tell the kid? "You don't know what's going to happen. Just because it didn't work one way before, doesn't mean it won't work if you try a different way. Just TRY."

 

I've had countless tiffs with my BF's kid about this. Just TRY IT. You can bitch all you want while you're doing it, but just do it.

 

You act as if you're the only person to feel left out, or unaccepted.

 

The fact of the matter is -- everyone feels this way at one time or another. I do all the time. YOu can focus on it all the time and let it bring you down, or keep trying new, different ways.

 

That's what problem-solving is all about. You should know that. You don't get anywhere in mathematics if you look at an equation and just say, "I can't do this. I give up." Well damn right, nothing will get done with an attitude like that.

 

B_O, I have tried and tried for YEARS. You know, I'm probably over the halfway mark in terms of my life expectancy so time is running out.

 

I gave up approaching women almost twenty years ago. It didn't work then and it certainly wouldn't work now. Why continue to engage in something that produces the same results? Same thing with just having acquaintances and friends - didn't work then... won't work now.

 

I have learned that people really don't change from kid to adult - they play the same games... the only difference is that the adults are more sophisticated in their game-playing.

[lindya]

Since you suggested it... I will commence an *Ask the Aspie* thread tomorrow morning... should be interesting.

 

Okay. I look forward to it. Hope it goes well.

[SmoochieFace]

Hope it goes well.

 

It will *go well* only if people participate.

[Tinman]

I think hard, brutal honesty only really works when the person has managed to apply it to themselves before they start applying it to anyone else. That involves looking at yourself through the eyes of your most outspoken critic, and considering as objectively as possible whether they might have a point.

Identifying and pulling aside your ego defence mechanisms in order to face up to certain truths about yourself, your thinking patterns, perspective on certain experiences you've had etc.

 

Bolding mine.

 

I would agree with one slight caveat. Hard, brutal honestly generally works best when applied to oneself. FULLSTOP.

 

And now for that caveat.

 

When dealing with others, honestly wrapped in a swath of tact.

 

In interpersonal relations, hard, brutal anything rarely works well.

... except for rough sex but that's a special case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or they have degenerated into sordid *sex threads*

And there it is.

[Guest]

Some individuals believe that they are Gods gift to everyone and they will not tolerate or can't cope with rejection. It makes them feel and look imperfect. All that you can do is laugh it off and try again with another individual. There are plenty of people in this world.

 

Good quote, but you have to admit it feels like s***, when someone blows you off! Self-esteem or no self-esteem, moving on is the key, but what do you say to this PITA when you do see him or just run into him with mutual friends? That part sux! The basic friendship is now compromised! I'm still so pissed off!!!! Not sure I will ever feel the same and all because of a forgotten 'date' and phone call....jerk!

[Lil Honey]

Perhaps this would be prime to start a "Ask the guy with AS" thread? It seems like it would be a great first step in the fight against ignorance.

 

I started a thread about Asperger’s. See this link: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77545/ I got a whole, whopping 15 posts. Not that quantity is more important than quality, but the notion that there would be great interest in trying understand has been tested.

 

I have referenced a chat board like this one, which is specifically for folks with Asperger’s. If anyone desires to learn more about Aspie’s, that is an excellent source, along with many, many others that can be found through a search. (I am not allowed to post the address, so I can PM anyone who is interested.) THAT is a site where you can log on and ask many folks about their feelings and get a variety of answers.

 

http://www.autismandcomputing.org.uk/marc2.en.html "Try not to tell someone too much about yourself or any of your weaknesses unless you have got to know them quite well because knowledge is power. The worst reaction you can get is when people become more hostile towards you because of having found out. This will nearly always be from people who didn't like you much to start with or who have little or no knowledge of autism."

 

I am very uncertain about where this is going . . .