Being *rejected* can be so funny!

[SmoochieFace]

When dealing with others, honestly wrapped in a swath of tact.

 

Why?

 

 

And there it is.

 

There what is?

 

Nebulous comments like that do not register with me...

[blind_otter]

Tact is phrasing something in a way that is least offensive, and offers consideration for the other person's different perspective.

 

Using tact helps facilitate communication, it makes people want to discuss things with you.

 

If an individual has the option of discussing one subject with two individuals, one of whom uses tact, the other who uses brutal honesty, almost all people would rather talk to the tactful person.

 

Not everyone thinks like you, SF. You need to train yourself to remember this.

[SmoochieFace]

Not everyone thinks like you, SF. You need to train yourself to remember this.

 

The inference I am getting from this statement is that *my* way of thinking is *wrong*... and I do not accept that.

[SmoochieFace]

I started a thread about Asperger’s. See this link: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t77545/ I got a whole, whopping 15 posts. Not that quantity is more important than quality, but the notion that there would be great interest in trying understand has been tested.

 

I remember that thread and I distinctly remember the relative lack of response to it. No sense in me starting a new thread about this as it would garner about the same results.

 

And let's face it... this isn't a *popular* thing to talk about and most people are loath to discuss things that aren't *popular* or *uncomfortable*. Using those as excuses are nothing more than cop-outs.

 

 

"Try not to tell someone too much about yourself or any of your weaknesses unless you have got to know them quite well because knowledge is power. The worst reaction you can get is when people become more hostile towards you because of having found out. This will nearly always be from people who didn't like you much to start with or who have little or no knowledge of autism."

 

I agree with this completely. What possible benefit can I get from making myself vulnerable to my enemies?

[Lil Honey]

Not everyone thinks like you, SF. You need to train yourself to remember this.

 

The inference I am getting from this statement is that *my* way of thinking is *wrong*... and I do not accept that.

 

Actually, SF . . . it isn't that your way of thinking is "wrong," and I don't believe BO's statemtent was meant to seem that way. Your way of thinking is different.

 

Let's use the blunt vs tact way of relating to others. Someone says, "I wear high heels with pointed toes and my feet are sore all the time." A person who says, "Well, the problem is with the shoes you wear. Buy some flats with a wider "toe box" and see how that works," will get a warmer reception than someone who says, "It's those damn, non-sensible shoes you are wearing! I don't know why women feel they have to impress people with high heels." In the first case, the person is offering a solution and not critizing the purchase of high heels. In the second case, the person finds fault with the shoes and goes on to say that the shoe-wearer is trying to impress someone, yet isn't offering a solution.

 

Anyway . . . I think BO's point was that in order to be happier and have better relationships with folks, you need to realize that they aren't always going to understand your thought process.

 

IMHO, everyone should cut the other guy some slack.

[SmoochieFace]

Actually, SF . . . it isn't that your way of thinking is "wrong," and I don't believe BO's statemtent was meant to seem that way. Your way of thinking is different.

 

Let's use the blunt vs tact way of relating to others. Someone says, "I wear high heels with pointed toes and my feet are sore all the time." A person who says, "Well, the problem is with the shoes you wear. Buy some flats with a wider "toe box" and see how that works," will get a warmer reception than someone who says, "It's those damn, non-sensible shoes you are wearing! I don't know why women feel they have to impress people with high heels." In the first case, the person is offering a solution and not critizing the purchase of high heels. In the second case, the person finds fault with the shoes and goes on to say that the shoe-wearer is trying to impress someone, yet isn't offering a solution.

 

Anyway . . . I think BO's point was that in order to be happier and have better relationships with folks, you need to realize that they aren't always going to understand your thought process.

 

IMHO, everyone should cut the other guy some slack.

 

All right, but in my logical mind, if the shoes hurt then get some different shoes. Don't continue to wear the same lousy shoes if they are killing your feet!

 

My frustration in situations like that is I think that people should be able to figure out the solutions on their own...

 

Sorta like some people who will continue to do something that obviously isn't *good* for them and they know it but nevertheless they continue to do it. Well, then why bytch about it then?

[Lil Honey]

All right, but in my logical mind, if the shoes hurt then get some different shoes. Don't continue to wear the same lousy shoes if they are killing your feet!

Yes, but it's all in the delivery. Both people stated or eluded to the fact that the shoes needed to be replaced, but the first response was less like a personal flogging.

 

My frustration in situations like that is I think that people should be able to figure out the solutions on their own...

I know. It's pretty frustrating. It's hard to keep from losing my patience sometimes when the person should have made a better decision in the first place. BUT, we might not know all the circumstances surrounding the decision. She could have been late for a meeting when her sensible shoes gave out, so she had to hurriedly stop at a shoe store to get something - anything - dressy/businesslike. And people are just . . . human. Everyone makes mistakes and makes bad decisions.

 

Sorta like some people who will continue to do something that obviously isn't *good* for them and they know it but nevertheless they continue to do it. Well, then why bytch about it then?

SF? ? ? THAT is what folks are trying to tell you. They are telling you that if you simply re-phrase your comments, you will have more people warm up to you, yet you continue to be blunt. Then you talk about not being liked.

 

It just goes around and around and around. You comment in a blunt way, and folks back off (and make negative comments about you). You get defensive. They gave defensive. Then, you answer their comments and they comment again.

 

It isn't that you are "wrong." It's that people feel like you are yelling at them. Unfortunately, when you ask what someone means, they then think you are mocking them, rather than trying to get information. Because they don't want to get talked AT.

 

Now, I know what you are going to say . . . you treat people the way they treat you. The thing is, someone has to stop. It doesn't matter who it is. This is a support board.

 

There is "extreme thinking" that I'm all too familiar with and I see it in you. Sometimes you say, "Nobody likes me," when in fact, some people DO . . . or some people agree with you. Unfortunately, you overlook that and focus on those who give you a hard time. I guess what I'm saying is, if you converse with those who will have a good coversation with you, then others might see that you aren't a monster.

[Lil Honey]

SF: (This is a long one. LOL) You mentioned a couple pages ago your lack of friends. I'd like to comment on that. You are right, most people do need friends or family - some sort of human contact. I can understand loneliness. Although it isn't the same 'kind' of loneliness, I was very lonely when I was married, probably more so than now.

 

I think I get along with you, because I can relate to so many things that you have talked about. Of course, the intensity might be different, but I can certainly see where you are coming from.

 

I used to be like you: Only seeing things in black and white. As I got older, I saw that things aren't always black and white. For example, I used to think that if a person was in jail, he/she probably deserved to be there. Now, there are times when folks are in prison because they were falsely accused. (There really ARE innocent people in prison.) Sometimes I still do think in black and white terms (there just isn’t any excuse for some things people do), but I don’t think that way so much anymore.

 

I used to be like you: Stubborn. I used to think everything was a battle. Now, I "choose my battles." Some things are just not worth my time, effort and emotion to get involved in. For example, I used to find fault with something that my boss does. Now, I see it as something he is always going to do and in the grand scheme of things, it isn't worth fretting over. On a bad day, I still might complain about it, but for the most part, I let him be "who he is."

 

I used to be like you: Struggling to be the "picture of 'perfection'" that my parents expected me to be. It wasn't until I had kids that I realized that no one is perfect and to continually try is an inefficient way to live my life. I had to take a good, long, hard look at what I was doing. I kept the house spotless. You could literally "eat off the floor." I kept a full-time job. I did yard work. I did laundry and grocery shopping. I was a mom. I did it all. I kept all the balls juggling, because dropping one would mean that I didn't have "it." But I was a basket case and most importantly, I wasn't spending time with my kids. I realized that cleaning the house and giving them a bath was NOT spending time with them. I ended up choosing to really spend time with them and not worry about how spotless the house was.

 

I used to be like you: Ultra responsible. I know - through my parents’ hard line - that things are supposed to be done a certain way, that there are rules and consequences. I was like you that it chapped my hide that I couldn't EV-ER make a mistake, yet people all around me did and they never got scolded or called out for it. While I see that looking the other way only reinforces that behavior in society, I think it ends up being one of those "choose your battles" issues. I've tried to see that the person who thinks that they are above the rules makes a fool of him/herself on their own. Anyone with half a brain can see that those people are trying to get away with something. The people who don’t see it, have some more observing and learning to do. What I'm saying is that voicing what I see about another person's character can backfire on me. Sometimes I still do say what I think about another person, but it is generally after I've seen them take one too many pot-shots at another. In my mind, they get a "taste of their own medicine."

 

I used to be like you: Impatient. I never thought that I should have to wait for someone else to "get" what I was trying to say. I never thought that someone should cut me off in traffic. Well . . . they shouldn't, but who says that I can't ease up on the accelerator? Some of the best driving I've done was when I let some idiot just go do whatever he wanted while I stayed back (or passed) to get away from their accident waiting to happen. It wasn't until I started putting myself in others' shoes that I started being more patient. One example, is being impatient with my aging mom. Now, that my joints are starting to ache, I'm "getting a taste of my own medicine." While there are folks who won’t put themselves in my shoes to see my POV, I feel that I’ve done all that I can if I do it. Each person needs to be able to understand the other for there to be a connection.

 

I used to be like you: Opinionated. I used to give people my opinion whether they asked for it or not. Generally speaking, my opinion wasn't pleasant. I always seemed to give my opinion when I was compelled by agitation, frustration, or disgust. I learned that sometimes folks don't want an opinion - they just need someone to talk to, to throw ideas off from, to confide in. Sometimes I still am opinionated, but keeping my agitation, frustration and disgust in check keeps me from feeling like I have to give my opinion. That is one good thing about these boards - a person can rant and feel better - they just need to be able to do that without getting into a debate. You should be able to throw ideas out there without reprimand and so should others.

 

I used to be like you: Building walls. I’d push people away, even though I wanted to be close to someone. It is a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy. I wasn't even aware of it, but I used to do certain things that would make people keep their distance. Even though I wanted to be close to people, I did that because deep inside, I didn't want to get hurt by them. I've had to learn to trust my instincts. I've had to learn that anything is a risk - including making friends. Some people will hurt me and others won't. Some people will like me and others won't. I still don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I have are top-notch. I am cautious around folks, but I really think that being cautious is a good thing. Being cautious is different than being critical. The self-fulfilling prophesy part came into play when I would say, "'Jane' won't like me," and my behavior (maybe being opinionated, for example), would keep that person at a distance. I was actually making my prediction happen! I was right that 'Jane' wouldn’t like me, because I would make it happen through the way that I related to her.

 

If you want to make your life happier, you have to look for ways to do it. One misconception that you might have is that you have to change YOU. But that can't be further from the truth. It isn't YOU that changes, it's HOW you do things that can change. Another example (sorry), if you want to make a really great Chicken Minestrone from scratch without a recipe, you start with some basic ingredients: Chicken, tomatoes, tomato paste and garlic. The next time you make it, you use the same basic ingredients, but build on the recipe from there by adding Basil. The third time you make it, you might take the Basil away and add Oregano instead. You keep adding and subtracting things that work and things that don’t work until you have the best Chicken Minestrone that you’ve ever tasted and it’s a masterpiece.

 

I know that your life is quite hectic, but try to plan (time-wise or money-wise or whatever) to see a counselor. There isn't anyone here who is qualified (that I've read) to help on a professional level. You might want to get to the bottom of some things and that's great. That's what a counselor can help you do - not change WHO you are, but help you be . . . happier. You also want to make friends and you need to know HOW (not necessarily WHY), and that's where I think a chat site similar to this can help, though maybe not this particular one.

 

So, yeah, I can understand where you are coming from most of the time.

 

You have a child, you have a girl-friend and I am a friend. It could be worse . . . I could be impatient.

[SmoochieFace]

All right, my inital response to someone who is *sarcastic* or *condescending* to me is to be the same way with them. Now I am being told that that is *wrong*.

 

Sooooo... whenever someone is like *that* with me what do you suggest as an effective response?

[whichwayisup]

All right, but in my logical mind, if the shoes hurt then get some different shoes. Don't continue to wear the same lousy shoes if they are killing your feet!

 

My frustration in situations like that is I think that people should be able to figure out the solutions on their own...

 

Sorta like some people who will continue to do something that obviously isn't *good* for them and they know it but nevertheless they continue to do it. Well, then why bytch about it then?

 

The thing is, depending on the situation and the frame of mind of the person, it isn't so easy to change. People can get caught up in something, whether it be a bad relationship, or they're cheating and can't stop - They become weaker inside and don't have the strength to DO any changes because of fears of the unknown. It isn't so black and white - Sometimes it takes a horrible chain of events for one to wake up - Sometimes not - But either way, it's their life - And they have a right to bitch about it, change or no change.

[whichwayisup]

All right, my inital response to someone who is *sarcastic* or *condescending* to me is to be the same way with them. Now I am being told that that is *wrong*.

 

Sooooo... whenever someone is like *that* with me what do you suggest as an effective response?

 

Are you talking 'anybody' or people you know well?

[SmoochieFace]

Are you talking 'anybody' or people you know well?

 

Anybody... including some people here.

[Tinman]

When dealing with others, honestly wrapped in a swath of tact.

 

Why?

 

Because the end goal is communication. Oftentimes being brutally honest will put the listener on the defensive. Once this happens their focus changes from listening to what you have to say to trying to defend themselves. The end result is, even though the speaker may have been completely correct, he has still failed to communicate and communication is the end goal.

 

By being tactful we can oftentimes communicate the same information without putting the listener on the defensive and thus, actually effect real communication.

 

Simply being correct and/or brutally honest serves nothing in and of itself if you fail to communicate that information.

 

Now, at this point you may think, "Well it was the listener's fault for getting defensive." and you'd have a point. It is a responsibility of the listener to do their best to receive information without getting defensive, but, like being tactful, it's easier said then done.

 

I'll give an example and maybe this will be clearer. You have two radio operators. If the sender knows that the receiver may have reception problems it's the responsibility of the sender to boost the signal. It does the no one any good for the sender to say, "well everyone else can pick up my transmission fine, if he has reception problems iit's his fault." when the sender can just as easily boost the signal.

 

Yes, we shouldn't have to use tact when providing information but if our goal is actual communication versus just reinforcing our own superiority then there is no excuse for failure to use tact.

 

Basically, if we're "right" and we fail to effectively communicate we haven't done anything but make ourselves feel better about how we were "honest" and they just couldn't take it.

 

 

 

and there it is

There what is?

 

Nebulous comments like that do not register with me...

There had been a comment about these threads devolving into unrelated sex threads. Thus I tossed in a throw-away mention of rough sex and followed it up with "and there it is."

[Tinman]

If it makes you feel any better, even without AS, there our teeming multitudes of people out there who struggle with the subtleties of communication, interpersonal skills and group dynamics. Even without the barriers of AS it's a very hard skill to learn and few master it without concentrated effort; and even then it's usually only in certain specialized contexts. Many people can sense when something is a little "off" but oftentimes that can't identify what that something is or where the breakdown has occured.

 

For example, there are countless classes and seminars teaching effective business communication and they rarely go empty; and that's just for business sectors.