Afghan Man Faces Execution After Converting to Christianity

[Admiral Thrawn]

So, I really do not understand why you would mix up a social justice issue with a religious one.

 

does the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" ring a bell? I do believe that refers even to those scenarios you've brought up. Killing is killing, period. Gunning down an abortion provider to save a baby is flawed logic. And I particularly mentioned it in the previous post because some people embrace that flawed logic, saying that it's no different from launching a protest or writing letters to the editor in opposition to abortions being provided in their communities. And those folks consider themselves good, God-fearing Christians who are doing their jobs to protect unborn babies.

 

And I will reiterate the point that it is not in the same context of the Muslims. A Christian will not shoot someone who may say "Jesus'" name in vain, or some other sacriledge to that effect. Heck, some of them, myself included, may not even say anything and just ignore it, but would appear uncomfortable.

 

This context of the abortion killings seems more like a social justice type of statement. IN a sence, killing is justified when it is in self-defence. I could rationalise an arguement that the unborn baby has no means of defending itself, and a killing is justified in self-defence of the unborn baby.

 

That type of ratoinalisation, although absurd, has nothing to do with religious extremism that is exhibited by the Muslims. There is no self-defence arguement any Muslim can use to justify terrorism, or killing infidels - in terms of defending another human being's life.

 

So, I think you are really comparing apples to oranges.

[EnigmaXOXO]

So in terms of "religious extremism" … where should good Christians drawl the line when it comes to acts of "terrorism"?

 

Last week our peaceful little community was invaded by religious fundamentalists who came all the way from the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas to disrupt and picket the funeral of one of our local Marines killed in Iraq.

 

They shouted hateful, bigoted remarks to the family entering the church and those who came to pay their respects. They wore tee-shirts that read "God Hates Fags" … and carried signs that said "Thank God For Dead Soldiers." Members of the Patriot Guard Riders had to literally shield people coming to the funeral from the angry protesters.

 

It seems these outsiders honestly believe that American soldiers (including Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder) are dying because of our nation's tolerance towards gay people…and their message of hate and intolerance is actually sanctioned by G-d.

 

However, there was no respect, no dignity, no sympathy or Christian "love" for the poor family who had just lost their beloved son. There was also no regard for the fact that they had brought their hateful, angry, message to the doorstep of a church … a house of G-d.

 

One of the many flaws in their belief, however, was that our sleepy little town would tolerate strangers coming into our own backyards to deliver angry messages of hate and bigotry … cloaked in the false facade of "Godliness" and "Christianity."

 

Our local townsfolk were outraged. But rather than send these crackpots home with britches full of buck-shot, the citizens turned to their local officials.

 

Because the nature of Westboro Church's protest was so blatantly offensive as to nearly incite a riot in this normally peaceful town, our state legislators quickly set to work and passed a bill (132-3) banning any future pickets such as this one. Violations of conduct and boundaries set will now be considered misdemeanors, punishable by up to 90 days in jail or a $1,000 fine. Twelve other states, in response to concerns regarding Westboro Church's methods of protest, are now looking to follow suite and adopt similar legislation.

 

While some argue that the new legislation infringes upon "freedom of speech" (particularly those members of the Westboro Church in Kansas) … what other outcome can we expect when so many people are now using their religion to justify evil acts of hate and violence towards their fellow human? Even going so far as to intrude upon other people's back yards, defile their churches, and disrupt religious ceremony. What other means does the average citizen have to protect themselves, their civil liberties, and their right to religious freedom from angry zealots like this?

 

I don't think our little town will be getting another hostile visit from the misguided members of the Westboro Baptist Church any time soon. Not unless they come prepared to pay their fines or spend three months in jail. And as one of the many long-time residents who call this peaceful, laid-back town "home" … I thank GOD for that!

[blind_otter]

Well, ya know, crusades and spanish inquisition all aside (I'm not sure how the roman catholic church, which spawned the protestant faiths, is not chrisitian as they believe in Jesus but suit yourself)....

 

apparently chrisitian people can kill others with impunity, and committ other sins that they decry, in the name of the Father.

 

Which probably makes God vomit a little in his mouth, but whatever.

[amaysngrace]

this whole thread shows me that some of the people with a cause are completely lost souls. the OP is a story about a man who has a legitimate cause, because he represents the freedom of choice.

 

these other TERRORISTS who use their religion as a backbone to do bad acts against humanity lack a backbone of their own.

 

it is as stupid and as coward as the KKK. who believe they are supreme for being born white.

 

why can't these people find some other place to feel as though they "fit in"? one with positive results? and why do they feel the need to belong to some organization to justify their sense of self in the first place?

 

i think these people are lost.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Well, ya know, crusades and spanish inquisition all aside (I'm not sure how the roman catholic church, which spawned the protestant faiths, is not chrisitian as they believe in Jesus but suit yourself)....

 

The Protestant faith did not come from the Roman Catholic church - that is why it is called 'Protestant', because it Protests the Roman Catholic church and all its teachings. The Roman Catholic church came from a dying Roman Empire, not directly from the Apostles or Jesus Christ. It is a religion devised by Emperor Constantine. The Protestant churches claim spiritual continuinity with the Early church in the Bible, and do not regard the Roman Catholic church as having any relationship with the Early church.

 

apparently chrisitian people can kill others with impunity, and committ other sins that they decry, in the name of the Father.

 

What are you talking about? Either you are raising a new subject out of a hat, or you have ignored the reply to my post. If you are raising a new subject, you should be specific of what you are talking about.

[Admiral Thrawn]

EnigmaXOXO;

 

It is a sad story to hear concerning that Baptist church, because that these church members are not showing the love of God.

 

I may appear to be taking a stand for Protestant churches in my post, but, my position, is a true church that really follows the teachings of Christ, where the members are really saved, and God is really working in the lives of the people who go to that church.

 

A true church is going to go out, and instead of picketing, will visit criminals in jails, feed the homeless and poor, visit the widowless, represent people in court who cant afford lawyers, and other good deeds to the community.

 

Unfortunately, that Baptist church is not a true church, and there is no 'candlestick' on it.

 

The Bible, in the first books of Revelation, shows what types of churches Jesus Christ will support, and which churches He does not support. Not every church is going to be right with God.

 

Granted, some Catholics may also be saved, but if they are, they are going to be have problems with confessing to priests, or praying to saints, because, they are not going to need to do that stuff anymore, and other adherants may find that behaviour heretical. It will be difficult to hide your light in a system like that.

[amaysngrace]

I may appear to be taking a stand for Protestant churches in my post, but, my position, is a true church that really follows the teachings of Christ, where the members are really saved, and God is really working in the lives of the people who go to that church.

 

Granted, some Catholics may also be saved, but if they are, they are going to be have problems with confessing to priests, or praying to saints, because, they are not going to need to do that stuff anymore, and other adherants may find that behaviour heretical. It will be difficult to hide your light in a system like that.

 

you know what AT? your 'brotherhood' church sounds very much like a cult to me. as i stated before, i have been RC my whole life. never, and i mean NEVER, has any preist, nor bishop, nor cardinal stated in my presence that any who isn't catholic is damned to hell and we should be proud of the fact that we're catholic. because we will be saved when no one else will. how arrogant! and who on earth would follow such feeble thinking?

 

you seem impressed/obsessed with the origins of specific religions in comparison to your own. is this the leader of your church's thoughts? into making his followers believe all other religions are inferior in some way to yours because of what happened umpteen thousand years ago?

 

last time i checked, yours is the most recent organized religion to come about. i believe it was founded by some guy who felt "lost" in his relationship with Christ and needed to "find" him. and he had enough charm to convince some lost souls into his church. man, this was a great idea. i bet he is raking in a pretty penny. why couldn't i have thought of this??

[blind_otter]

I may appear to be taking a stand for Protestant churches in my post, but, my position, is a true church that really follows the teachings of Christ, where the members are really saved, and God is really working in the lives of the people who go to that church.

 

How exactly do you know the teachings of Jesus Christ? Through the King James version of the bible?

 

Do you know how many times that was translated, and the fact that they ommitted several books and gospels?

 

Your faith is in the structure of the chuch, made by man, my friend, not in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Those were lost a long time ago. They were repressed and twisted by the hierarchy of the church and the elders who took over the ministry after the death of Jesus.

 

Blind faith is a dangerous thing -- nothing separates those who follow passionately and without question from zealots and extremists.

 

IT does sound like you're in a cult -- any healthy person would at least have curiosity, and interest, and to push something away from you so strongly shows fear. I see that, cultists tend to be terrified of something, and they ease their anxiety by engaging in ritualistic behaviors and blindly following the ideology presented to them by someone they perceive as more powerful than they are.

 

AFAIK, the christian God is a god of love.

[Admiral Thrawn]

you know what AT? your 'brotherhood' church sounds very much like a cult to me. as i stated before, i have been RC my whole life. never, and i mean NEVER, has any preist, nor bishop, nor cardinal stated in my presence that any who isn't catholic is damned to hell and we should be proud of the fact that we're catholic. because we will be saved when no one else will. how arrogant! and who on earth would follow such feeble thinking?

 

For the record, you should read your own church documents, in particular those from the Council of Trent. Right now the catholic church has toned down because it doesn't have as much power or clout as it did back in the middle ages, when it would burn hereitcs to a stake who did not believe in their doctrines.

 

Does this mean the catholic church has evolved? The documents or constitution are still there of what constitutes a heretic. What has changed is it has any smart institution, it has to put on a face that accomidates the times. If it could resort to force, or another inquisition to burn heretics, and get away with it, it certainly would today.

 

you seem impressed/obsessed with the origins of specific religions in comparison to your own. is this the leader of your church's thoughts? into making his followers believe all other religions are inferior in some way to yours because of what happened umpteen thousand years ago?

 

I think any prudent or rational person should do background checks on their own faith and not accept it blindly. So, these are my thoughts, and I'm not specifically affiliated with any church, but I do believe that there are some true churches out there.

 

The fact is, you only have a superficial knowledge of your own faith, or what you want to hear about it, and that is fine. However, if you dig deeper into other cannonical doctrines of your churches, in particular those that define heretics, and state that a heretic is accursed, and where accursed people should be put to death, then you will find that it is not that far different from the religious extremism of the Muslim religion.

 

According to ex-Catholics, such as Alberto Rivera, there are even secret Catholic organisations that are dedicated to silencing any preacher or evangelist that talks against the Catholic church, or silencing any ex-catholic who speaks against the church. That is why so many prostastant, if not all protestant church are keeping silent about the catholic church.

 

last time i checked, yours is the most recent organized religion to come about. i believe it was founded by some guy who felt "lost" in his relationship with Christ and needed to "find" him. and he had enough charm to convince some lost souls into his church. man, this was a great idea. i bet he is raking in a pretty penny. why couldn't i have thought of this??

 

It is obvious that you are not serious with this discussion.

 

Again, I'm not promoting the concept of 'organized religion', because that really is a man-made concept and has nothing to do with the things of God. A church, ideally, is comprised as born-again Christians who share similar conversoin experiences of receiving Christ, and seek to grow in the knowledge and grace of Jesus. Jesus Christ Himself is the head of that church. When such people assemble together, it becomes a church.

 

It is not about who is founding this or who is founding that, it is about what the Bible says, and it is about Jesus being the head of the church.

[amaysngrace]

A church, ideally, is comprised as born-again Christians who share similar conversoin experiences of receiving Christ, and seek to grow in the knowledge and grace of Jesus

 

 

exactly my point...they "found" Jesus. big deal. i never LOST Him.

 

i am gathering that who ever stands on the altar is now telling you only born-again people have churches? you are ignorant in your ideas and in your thinking that only those members of your congregation will see heaven, or paradise, or whatever word you'd like to use.

 

am i wrong into thinking there is not a collection basket for those attending? i understand they are telling you it is for "upkeep" but have you ever seen an actual report on what was the weekly intake? just wondering.

 

it's unfortunate that those who have no sense of themselves seek unity with man in any way and will even succomb to brainwashing if need be.

[Guest]

Afghan prosecutors say a 41-year-old man facing the death penalty for rejecting Islam and converting to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, according to a report.

 

 

Abdul Rahman, who was charged for converting from Islam, is interviewed during a hearing in Kabul on March 16, 2006.

 

"We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari told the Associated Press.

 

Abdul Rahman went on trial last week in Afghanistan after being charged with rejecting Islam. He had converted to Christianity 16 years ago, but was arrested in February after his family denounced him during a custody battle.

 

A judge told Rahman he faces the death penalty unless he agrees to convert back to the faith in which he was raised, but on Wednesday a state prosecutor and presidential adviser said he may be unfit to stand trial.

 

A religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.

 

 

The case has raised international concern from Canada, the United States, Germany and Italy.

 

"Canada will continue to encourage the Afghan government to adhere to its human rights obligations," Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Pamela Greenwell told Reuters on Tuesday.

 

Speaking with top Afghan officials in Washington Tuesday, U.S. Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns also urged Afghanistan to respect freedom of religion.

 

The case highlights divisions between Afghan's conservative clerics and reformers.

 

The nation's constitution, drafted after the ultra-conservative Taliban government was forced from power four years ago, is based on Shariah law. Shariah is the legal code of Islam, based on the Qu'ran.

[Admiral Thrawn]

exactly my point...they "found" Jesus. big deal. i never LOST Him.

 

You are born in orginal sin, and have personal sin, therefore you have to receive Jesus. People are lost by default.

 

Jesus said, ye must be born again, that means born twice - a spiritual rebirth, in order to enter the kingdom of God.

 

i am gathering that who ever stands on the altar is now telling you only born-again people have churches? you are ignorant in your ideas and in your thinking that only those members of your congregation will see heaven, or paradise, or whatever word you'd like to use.

 

No, I'm actually quite scriptural. This is what the Bible says, not someone standing on an alter, or ignorance.

 

am i wrong into thinking there is not a collection basket for those attending? i understand they are telling you it is for "upkeep" but have you ever seen an actual report on what was the weekly intake? just wondering.

 

Depends on what church you go to. Roman Catholic churches have one, so it is quite a futile point you are making, because virtually every church has collections, and people give as they are feeling convicted.

 

In terms of New Covenant churches, that type of church, as far as I know, has no collections, and people have to contact the Pastor directly, or put an envelope in some discreet location if they want to give something. Pastor NEVER asks for money in any messages and trusts God that they will have money to meet all their expenses.

 

it's unfortunate that those who have no sense of themselves seek unity with man in any way and will even succomb to brainwashing if need be.

 

What are you talking about?

[amaysngrace]

What are you talking about?

 

i am talking about your references. i am talking about your judgments. i am talking about your narrowmindedness. i am talking about how you say you can predict who will have a better life thereafter. i am talking about your comparisons. and mostly, i am talking about your ignorance.

 

to claim one religion or one's beliefs are "right" while others are wrong shows me that you have absolutely no idea of what acceptance means.

 

and therefore, have no business preaching religion.

 

until you can accept and embrace the diversities which make us each unique, you will never fully appreciate the earth we cohabitate.

 

 

hint: religion does NOT equal spirituality

[Admiral Thrawn]

i am talking about your references. i am talking about your judgments. i am talking about your narrowmindedness. i am talking about how you say you can predict who will have a better life thereafter. i am talking about your comparisons. and mostly, i am talking about your ignorance.

 

It seems like you are drifting from topic to topic here. You were talking about seeking 'unity with man' and being brainwashed. That sounded like a good Communist manifesto.

 

If you disagree with my faith or opinions, than that is fine, but remember one thing. You are intolerant to my beliefs, and therefore contradict what you are attempting to say.

 

I have never made any judgements on any person, other than institutions, and doctrines to see if they line up with the word of God.

 

to claim one religion or one's beliefs are "right" while others are wrong shows me that you have absolutely no idea of what acceptance means.

 

On the other side of the coin, you are practising the same thing that you are preaching against. Again, any claim I have posted here are all based on the Bible. It is all about the power of God to save people through Jesus Christ, not about people's wisdom, and that, is in the Bible.

 

You can not accept Jesus Christ, and other gods at the same time. Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. If you have a problem with that, then why not just call him a liar or a fraud then? Jesus is the ONLY way to be saved. Not a church, not sacraments, not a eucharist, but by faith Jesus is received.

 

 

until you can accept and embrace the diversities which make us each unique, you will never fully appreciate the earth we cohabitate.

 

You are talking from a secular humanistic viewpoint, you are talking from a reletavistic, pleuralistic belief, that is quite hypocritical, because, although it claims to embrase every religion, it certainly has a problem with a faith that claims to be the truth.

 

hint: religion does NOT equal spirituality

 

Truth does not equal lies, light defeats darkness.

[amaysngrace]

you know what, AT, i give up. you are bound and determined to argue what you believe, which shows me that you are not a peaceful person.

 

i hope the acceptance and peace of our Savior Jesus Christ finds a way into your heart.

[alphamale]

i hope the acceptance and peace of our Savior Jesus Christ finds a way into your heart.

....I would just settle for common sense

[amaysngrace]

....I would just settle for common sense

 

:lmao: thanks Alpha! you cracked me up!!

[Admiral Thrawn]

:lmao: thanks Alpha! you cracked me up!!

 

So, what would you do if you were faced to die for your beliefs by a hostile religion to yours? Would you recant so you would stay alive, and conclude it is all nonsence anyway that you are dying for? Or would you die for it?

[alphamale]

So, what would you do if you were faced to die for your beliefs by a hostile religion to yours?

No religon is hostile to another... It is people and their emotions that are hostile to one another.

[Admiral Thrawn]

No religon is hostile to another... It is people and their emotions that are hostile to one another.

 

And do you have something to die for?

[alphamale]

And do you have something to die for?

The question is moot...I will die whether or not I have something to die for.

[Admiral Thrawn]

The question is moot...I will die whether or not I have something to die for.

 

This guy has something to die for. He will not recant his faith in the face of death. You have to admire that.

[bluetuesday]

That is a perversion of the context of that text. Jesus said, He is the ONLY way to the Father.

 

no he didn't. jesus didn't speak english. what you think you know as fact is a human translation of a selected text of a conversation which took place very probably outside the writer's hearing and certainly decades earlier than it was recorded. to think the bible is a literal, factual document is, at best, naive.

 

and even if those words HAD been spoken by jesus exactly as they are written, the text still has to be interpreted. words are just sounds without the hearer crediting them with meaning.

 

you understand 'i am the way, the truth and the life' to mean, more or less, that unless you accept jesus as the christ, you're damned.

 

i understand those words to mean that jesus wanted our ways to be his ways. he is the example of love and forgiveness we should live by. i believe that 'i am the way' means BEING LIKE ME is the way.

 

Text does not contradict text.

 

baffling. the gospels do not agree on when jesus was born. text contradicts text all over the place. stop placing your faith in the text. it's flawed, it's incomplete and, most of all, it's the work of man and therefore by design, lacks perfection.

 

i understand where this comes from. i remember you saying somewhere you're quite a new christian. well, as an old christian, i'd say relax your grip on your bible just a little. you're squeezing so tight it's clouding your vision. now stop reading and go out and help an old lady with her shopping.

 

It looks like there are things that you do not fully understand...

 

you're looking for truth? you just spoke it! of course there are things i don't understand. i'm not god.

[Admiral Thrawn]

no he didn't. jesus didn't speak english. what you think you know as fact is a human translation of a selected text of a conversation which took place very probably outside the writer's hearing and certainly decades earlier than it was recorded. to think the bible is a literal, factual document is, at best, naive.

 

 

It seems to be an interpretation that is embrased by this guy who is not recanting his beliefs in the face of a potential execution. If it was some type of weak faith or religion, as the one you are perscribing, it wouldn't stand a test, because it doesn't appear that you really have anything worth defending there.

 

You may as well say that the Afgan man should recant his beliefs because the other religion is just as valid as a way to God. However, this person who is being executed has realised truth in Jesus Christ, that He really is the only way to the Father, and therefore, he is standing by his faith.

[bluetuesday]

being prepared to die for your religion is not a sign of its validity, even in your eyes. if it were, the suicide bombers who daily pepper streets of iraq and elsewhere with their own body parts and those of their victims wouldn't exist, would they?

 

death doesn't mean the cause is objectively true or good. it just means the convinction is strongly held, even if the rest of the world thinks it's wildly inaccurate.

 

no doubt you will make the distinction between an act of aggression and a peaceful desire to worship in the way you see fit. but in an islamic country, rejection of islam IS a sign of aggression and the christian prisoner will know this.

 

don't make the mistake of thinking i fail to understand your position, AT. five, ten years ago, i felt exactly as you do now. i thought i was right and anyone who didn't hold to my fundamental position was lost.

 

bless him, god didn't give up on me. very slowly, he encouraged me to talk to him about it. what you are describing as my weak faith, is not weak in his eyes. to him, i'm growing. i have put away my childish things and my narrow ideas of where god can be found and i am starting to see the length and the breadth and the height of his power. so take it up with him.

 

but while you fail to understand the magnificence and the mystery of a god who can reach different people in different ways, who can lead them on diverse paths towards him, who can guide them in the way HE sees fit, you will continue to limit god in human terms by thinking what you can see now is all there is.

 

god is love. where love exists, he is there. christians don't have the monolopy on it.