Not guilty--lied and feeling guilty for lying. (LONG POST)

[basscatcher]

(HELP------------for those of you who know my situation!)

 

If you don't know my situation then you will see me as being completely a biaytch that is why I requested input from those who know my story..

 

Ok I haven't seen Charlie in 2 weeks. I seems as if he has been avoiding seeing me (I believe because he senses I am going to end the relationship.) He called me last Thurs evening while I was in classes and I left the class and answered it. He asked me out that night. I had to refuse because I was in class till 8:15 then had to pick up my gf at the bus stop at the airport, she was staying the night with me before she headed to Austria for 2 months.

 

He didn't bother to reschedule the date and instead of chosing to spend time with me Friday night he made plans with his brother to go have a few beers. (I took that as: I am second choice and a fill-in when he has nothing else going on.) He took his kids to the cabin Saturday AGAIN and didn't return until around 5 yesterday (Sunday).. I had a wedding/reception to attend so it didn't matter he left town.

 

Well I gave him a message (Sunday) to call me after he dropped of his kids when he got back into town. I waited and waited for him to call me. He didn't call me until around 7:30. I made other plans by then.

 

The plans I made were with my 'alpha male' friend. He always understood me; usually better then I know myself. He has been a great source of lessons for growth to help myself. He knows what I need to feel balance and harmony. He is the only man whom has had the ability to have insight into me without me having to tell him. He knows the person I am. (He would have made a great husband.. but, he doesn't want the institustion or sacrament of marriage. He is content being by himself most of the time and doesn't want a SO in his life. He is a great friend. (We were involved last summer and it became ugly. We agree we won't go down that road.)

 

Anyway, I headed to his house, because I needed some face-to-face male contact and we both we feeling pretty isolated and agreed we needed to be held. (He works out of his home so he doensn't get out of his house much for person to person face to face contact.) He was working when I got there so he gave me a great book "The path of the Least Resistance" to read. I was working on the 2nd chapter when he finally emerged from his office and requested a back rub. So I gave him a back rub and then he pulled me down next to him and we just held each other.. It felt so good, so relaxing. He rubbed my back and held me close. I returned the affection. He played with my fingers, looked deeply into my eyes. he joked with me a little although most of the time was in silence. The affection we gave to one another, WITHOUT sex, was absolutely beautiful.. (He was doing breathing exercises to control himself. --I too was practicing breathing exercises to control myself.. I made it clear to him before I agreed to come over that I DO NOT want sex. I don't want to go in that direction again because it is disasterous between him and I. Last summer I began to fall in love with him and he didn't want that.

 

During that time my cell keep vibrating. I ignored my phone. I knew it was Charlie. I didn't want to talk to him because I was upset with him and felt like he blew me off, AGAIN. I left him the message at 11am that I wanted to see him and to call me ASAP and he didn't. (He has to have his kids home by 5pm.) He didn't start trying to call me till 7:30..

 

When I left my friends house house I felt so much peace within myself. The mutual touching affection relaxed both of us. There was no sex. I told my friend that we CAN'T make a habit of what happened. He said can't isn't a word. It's negative. I told him again we CAN NOT make a habit of what happened. He didn't say anything and I kissed him on the cheek and hugged him. He hugged me back. He was so affectionate towards me. More then he was last summer. I felt the old feelings stirring in me and I told him that if we kept this up he wouldn't be happy because I would fall for him all over again and I don't want that either. He was quiet...

 

On my way home I decieded to check my VM and Charlie left me 4 of them and called 16 times. I could hear in his voice, panic, fear, anger, sarcasm. He was worried about me because I wasn't answering or returning his calls. So I called him on my way home.. 11:45.. He was full of questions and I was being very evasive like he has been doing to me for the past 6 months. He chewed me out for ignoring his calls, he made accusations that I was ignoring him (which I was), he would start asking me a question then would stop himself. He didn't dare ask me where I was, who I was with, what I was doing. I could tell that he wanted to ask because he would start then he would stop himself. So I stated the questions I thought he wanted to ask and he said Yes that is what I was thinking.

 

Here is where I lied. I didn't tell him the truth. At first I was evasive like he has always done to me and he reacted the same way I did. So I took it a step further and started to reply like he has and he reacted even more the way I did. I asked him how it felt to feel that way..

He said I was being a bitch. I laughed at him because he finally knows what it feels like. I told him what he was feeling is EXACTLY what I have felt for the past 6 months. All the unansered questions, all the mystery, all the elusive comments avoiding answers. He couldn't say much. Then he replied "Whatever". I said "yeah exactly,, blow it off like you always do.. " "Whatever then." I said sarcastically.

 

He then charged at me with some restraint where I was. I told him I was out. He asked where, with who, where was I coming from, how far away I was, he asked me to come over to his place instead of going home and I said NO... (I was driving almost right past his place.) I said NO and I stuck to it. He asked me where I was and I lied and said I was on the other side of the Metro about 25 miles north. I lied.. I was 35 miles in his direction past his place. I told him I was out with the gals from my old support group and we were at Bennigans. I told him I had my cell in my purse and didn't check it so I didn't know he was calling until I left and looked at it in the car.

 

(Charlie told me that he got my message at 2pm when he came into reception on his way home from the cabin and he didn't bother to call me until 7:30.)

 

I lied to him to not hurt his feelings.

 

I didn't feel guilty last night but I feel like such a aweful liar this mornng.

My friend knew Charlie was calling and I was ignoring him. He told me that no one needed to know where I was and what I was doing. My son and my gf asked where I was headed and I said I am just going out and I'm going to keep it to myself. My gf giggled and said have fun. I know she is going to pry. My son looked at me with some irratation because I didn't tell him where I was going either.

 

I feel bad for lying to Charlie..

He was very upset and I could hear he was hurt in his voice. He told me that I had never done this to him before and he expressed he was pissed.

 

I asked him to take a look at how he is feeling and realize just what he has been doing to me for the past 2 weeks and also 2 months.

 

He said he will get together with me this week. Maybe tonight.

O'Hell I don't know what the f*** to do. My head says ditch him. He isn't ready for me and then my underlying beliefs tell me he can change. I know he needs to change before he is any good for me and that doesn't mean he will change.

 

After being in my friends arms, him looking into my eyes, rubbing my back, playing with my fingers, carressing me in such a gentle and loving way I don't know if there is anything Charlie can do to save it.

[whichwayisup]

Problem is, you're relying on your male friend for something you want from Charlie. And from what you've said, it seems you still have some unresolved (or buried) feelings for this other guy. That is going to confuse you in time and if Charlie picks up on this, that's more of a mess too.

 

Somehow, you are going to have to decide what YOU want. Either end it completely and go into NC with Charlie, or get together with him and talk face to face. Phone calls aren't working and it's not helping either of you.

 

As for the white lie? Don't say anything, you don't owe him a huge explanation because you two have been on a 'break.' He doesn't need to know you saw your male friend...And that you two cuddled. That WILL hurt him so there is no point of saying anything. Put it out of your head.

[grateful]

I haven't been here since the beginning of your relationship but I have read your posts in the last few weeks.

 

I know you are asking for advice about Charlie, but I have to say about your "alphamale friend" - - - He is no friend to you. He knows exactly what's going on with you, what you are missing from your relationship with Charlie, what exact issue makes you vulnerable (the lack of touch and affection) and then proceeds to give you touch and affection.

 

I am really afraid that he is manipulating you. You talk about him like he is some guru. If he really really knew what was good for you and put your needs first he wouldn't have put you in this position where you have to do breathing exercises to avoid sex.

 

He is not self less in his decision to help you.

 

Please don't rely on him. Rely on yourself and your heart. You can make this decision about what you want from your relationship with Charlie. It might take some work and time, but you are strong enough to figure out who you are, what you want, and what is important to you.

 

Wishing you all the strength you need right now.

[basscatcher]

Problem is, you're relying on your male friend for something you want from Charlie. And from what you've said, it seems you still have some unresolved (or buried) feelings for this other guy. That is going to confuse you in time and if Charlie picks up on this, that's more of a mess too.

 

Somehow, you are going to have to decide what YOU want. Either end it completely and go into NC with Charlie, or get together with him and talk face to face. Phone calls aren't working and it's not helping either of you.

 

As for the white lie? Don't say anything, you don't owe him a huge explanation because you two have been on a 'break.' He doesn't need to know you saw your male friend...And that you two cuddled. That WILL hurt him so there is no point of saying anything. Put it out of your head.

 

I'm sure I do have some unresolved buried feelings for my friend. I was falling in love with him last summer. It is hard to not fall in love with someone who stimulates growth in me, is handsome, is in control of himself and focused on the quality of life, he is supportive and is caring and supportive of me. He is not dating material or marriage material. I had to let go of him last summer. There was no choice. I didn't want a casual fling in my life pertaining to a whirlwind of sex. I ddin't want a freinds with benefits type of relationship so I had to walk. But he always remained as a friend and has helped me see things clearly.

 

As for Charlie; he and I WILL sit down and have a face-to-face talk. I told him last night to prepare for it. I also told him I won''t tolerate his evasiveness or chosen ignorance. I told him he better be prepared to deal with these issues and he better look me in the eyes like a man.

I told him I am sick of this shyt.

He knew I ment business and he said he has never had a woman talk to him like this before. I told him that I am a logical woman with feelings. I try to think logically and I won't tolerate much shyt for long. I will speak up and I will make an attempt to correct the situation if it is unbalanced.

 

His tone changed,. I know he understand I mean business..

 

 

Thank you for helping me ease the white lie guilt. You are right but I have a negative programming that I must be honest at all time and about everything NO matter what. I have been told that too much honesty and openess to a loved will can deeply hurt them when you don't need to share everything if you truly didn't do anything wrong..

 

I had fear implanted in me as a child. I was deadly afraid of the reprecussions if I should get caught in a white lie.. It still haunts me today. I am working at removing this.

 

Thanks WWIU

[alphamale]

. My head says ditch him.

...listen to the head.

 

my underlying beliefs tell me he can change.

no he can't.....one must take people at face value.

 

After being in my friends arms, him looking into my eyes, rubbing my back, playing with my fingers, carressing me in such a gentle and loving way I don't know if there is anything Charlie can do to save it.

you forgot the c*ck in the mouth part, but, hey, thats cool

[Art_Critic]

Ok I haven't seen Charlie in 2 weeks. I seems as if he has been avoiding seeing me (I believe because he senses I am going to end the relationship.)

 

Pada.. I have said this before and you don't see it..

 

He already broke up with you.. but because of your emotions he has told you some things to make you feel better or even to make him feel less guilt..

 

You 2 are no longer together. the rest is just fluff.. he is playing with you..

 

Why can't you agree that you 2 are no longer together the way you were before.. as BF-GF ?

[basscatcher]

Pada.. I have said this before and you don't see it..

 

He already broke up with you.. but because of your emotions he has told you some things to make you feel better or even to make him feel less guilt..

 

You 2 are no longer together. the rest is just fluff.. he is playing with you..

 

I don't know if your right or not.

His actions could be interpreted as that. I know your thinking that but his words don't say that. His tone of voice doesn't say that.

 

He was panicing last night. He felt all the roller coaster emotions I had been feeling in such a short time--one day.

 

I have been preparing myself for a long talk with him and I will be putting on my dominate woman cap. If he don't like that I am going to take charge well he will have to put up with it for the moment regardless. If he doesn't I will grab my shyt and walk upset (angry). I know he will try stop me. It maybe a drama filled emotionally charged confrontation depending on how serious he takes the talk.

[blind_otter]

This is why it's dangerous to seek so much external validation. It's great that you believe your ex/friend is just trying to help but it's also important to remember that you have no idea what's really going on in his head.

 

I have sought validation from men my whole life. I habitually have done what you described above, in the past -- and I feel badly for the male friends because almost all of them wanted to f*** me and were just waiting until I decided to give it up. But I would seek solace from a male friend after relationships ended. For wahtever reason.

 

I have to stop myself from doing this. Sometimes I want to so badly, I try to convince myself that I need it. And I just have to endure that feeling, it is very very VERY much like my cravings for alcohol and drugs. Weird, huh? I think it's a crutch.

[basscatcher]

This is why it's dangerous to seek so much external validation. It's great that you believe your ex/friend is just trying to help but it's also important to remember that you have no idea what's really going on in his head.

 

I have sought validation from men my whole life. I habitually have done what you described above, in the past -- and I feel badly for the male friends because almost all of them wanted to f*** me and were just waiting until I decided to give it up. But I would seek solace from a male friend after relationships ended. For wahtever reason.

 

I have to stop myself from doing this. Sometimes I want to so badly, I try to convince myself that I need it. And I just have to endure that feeling, it is very very VERY much like my cravings for alcohol and drugs. Weird, huh? I think it's a crutch.

 

Yes.. I agree. I understand..

I feel so unwanted, unattractive, neglect, alone, my body literally aches to be held. I guess you could call it a addiction.

I've felt this since I was a child. I've always longed to be touched, held. I need touch.

 

The book "The Five Love Languages for Singles" explains how different people express and need expression in relationships.

[blind_otter]

Yes.. I agree. I understand..

I feel so unwanted, unattractive, neglect, alone, my body literally aches to be held. I guess you could call it a addiction.

I've felt this since I was a child. I've always longed to be touched, held. I need touch.

 

The book "The Five Love Languages for Singles" explains how different people express and need expression in relationships.

 

The need to be touched is a normal thing, but the way that you are seeking comfort is not necessarily a healthy way. End things completely with Charlie, then seek solace if you need to -- but don't allow this need to overrule your logical thoughts, and betray your personal morals. This internal feeling of guilt does no one any good, and you could have avoided it by pulling the bandaid off quickly (with Charlie) so that you would no longer feel guilt or the need to lie about a VERY NORMAL desire for physical affection and affirmation.

 

See what I'm saying? The need is not wrong, but the way you are going about it, isn't so good for you.

[Guest]

Playing these games won't help your situation at all. Nor will falling into another man's arms. I suggest you stay out of relationships for a while until you can validate your own self. Landing in relationships just to have a need for touch fulfilled is, as by know one hopes you know, a recipe for disaster. Get some pets and hug and love and touch them.

[basscatcher]

The need to be touched is a normal thing, but the way that you are seeking comfort is not necessarily a healthy way. End things completely with Charlie, then seek solace if you need to -- but don't allow this need to overrule your logical thoughts, and betray your personal morals. This internal feeling of guilt does no one any good, and you could have avoided it by pulling the bandaid off quickly (with Charlie) so that you would no longer feel guilt or the need to lie about a VERY NORMAL desire for physical affection and affirmation.

 

See what I'm saying? The need is not wrong, but the way you are going about it, isn't so good for you.

 

I do understand what you are telling me.

I felt like I was on a vacation last night with my friend. All my anxiety lifted and I do feel much better today then I did yesterday. Just because I was held and felt cared about.

 

I know he would like to f*** me.. He expressed it. He respected me not to push it. I made the boundry clear before I chose to get together with him.

I don't get hugs or touches often from people so I feel like I'm in a lonely world.

[alphamale]

It's great that you believe your ex/friend is just trying to help but it's also important to remember that you have no idea what's really going on in his head.

I know exactly what;s going on in his head....it involves handcuffs and a lot of lube.

 

But I would seek solace from a male friend after relationships ended. For wahtever reason.

I've never understood why women do this.... then soon as the woman recovers and finds a new romantic interest (or goes back to the ex) the male "friend" she was getting solace from gets thrown to the curb.

[blind_otter]

I do understand what you are telling me.

I felt like I was on a vacation last night with my friend. All my anxiety lifted and I do feel much better today then I did yesterday. Just because I was held and felt cared about.

 

I know he would like to f*** me.. He expressed it. He respected me not to push it. I made the boundry clear before I chose to get together with him.

I don't get hugs or touches often from people so I feel like I'm in a lonely world.

 

I feel the same way and I understand what you are saying. But it's important to recognize what actually happened, not just what went on in your head. Although it was nonsexual for you, it may just be your friend trying to lay the foundation for sex later on.

 

You need to end things with Charlie before seeking any kind of physical solace from other men. Period, end of story. It's harsh, but it's true. It's a limitation I only recently learned for myself in the last few months.

[2sunny]

Personally,

 

I'd bail on Charlie and give the friend a good/fair shot. The reason being is that he seems to be more in tune with your needs, wants and desires than Charlie is at this time...

 

OR

 

Heck - you aren't married so why not date both at the same time and see what happens....

[alphamale]

But it's important to recognize what actually happened, not just what went on in your head. Although it was nonsexual for you, it may just be your friend trying to lay the foundation for sex later on.

um, yeah....i can say with 99% confidence that this is what the "friend" is doing.

[blind_otter]

um, yeah....i can say with 99% confidence that this is what the "friend" is doing.

 

Yep. I think the male friend serves as "safe surrogate boyfriend" -- but it really just helps the next guy you date have to deal with all the issues from your previous relationship. Fun for the whole family.

[2sunny]

um, yeah....i can say with 99% confidence that this is what the "friend" is doing.

 

 

So?

 

Why can't she go down that road with him? I think she needs to see again for herself that it's not out of the question to have a relationship of some sorts with this friend. (who must have a name?)

[blind_otter]

So?

 

Why can't she go down that road with him? I think she needs to see again for herself that it's not out of the question to have a relationship of some sorts with this friend. (who must have a name?)

 

This friend already had a relationship with her and it ended. He isn't ready for a relationship or something. Whatever. It would be a nightmarishly horrible idea.

 

Yes, let's leapfrog from relationship to relationship until we explode from the past issues that we failed to sort out.

[Sassy]

Pada nothing wrong with wanting to be loved and needed by someone . Just sometimes we tend to look in the wrong places for these needs and end up getting hurt all over again. This alphamale friend wants you only for sex nothing more be careful.

[alphamale]

Why can't she go down that road with him? I think she needs to see again for herself that it's not out of the question to have a relationship of some sorts with this friend.

he is a friend for a reason 2SUNNY....

 

(who must have a name?)

we'll just call him "friend" for now...

[2sunny]

I realize that they tried once already... just sort of thinking by her post now that it COULD be feasible to ressurect the relationship to see how it goes.

 

Maybe she and or he is now in a different mindset than last summer. That makes all the difference in the world.

[blind_otter]

I realize that they tried once already... just sort of thinking by her post now that it COULD be feasible to ressurect the relationship to see how it goes.

 

Maybe she and or he is now in a different mindset than last summer. That makes all the difference in the world.

 

I'm just wondering if you read the previous posts abotu Pada's situation? It would be a horrible idea.

 

Since when do we advocate people jumping from one relationship to another?

[whichwayisup]

Thank you for helping me ease the white lie guilt. You are right but I have a negative programming that I must be honest at all time and about everything NO matter what. I have been told that too much honesty and openess to a loved will can deeply hurt them when you don't need to share everything if you truly didn't do anything wrong..

 

I had fear implanted in me as a child. I was deadly afraid of the reprecussions if I should get caught in a white lie.. It still haunts me today. I am working at removing this.

 

Thanks WWIU

 

You're welcome!

 

White lying at times has to happen. And it isn't always negative, sometimes it's to protect the other persons feelings. Morally, yes it's abit of a lie, but with good intentions, not done with any malcious.

 

It's weird how we can carry stuff from childhood. For me at times, it's the sense of needing approval and not wanting to let people down. I have it in me to be a people pleaser.

[basscatcher]

.......give the friend a good/fair shot. The reason being is that he seems to be more in tune with your needs, wants and desires than Charlie is at this time......

 

I can't. I know where he stands on relationships. He and I had conversations on this last summer.

Like I said his qualities and abilities to see my needs and he has the capability to meet them except he is a man who likes LOTS and LOTS of space.. I don't do well with space. He is the typical Alpha Male type.. He is content making decisions for himself, taking care of himself, being extremely independant. He doesn't want a woman doting on him and he doesn't want to have to always be aware of the needs of a partner and respectfully keep a balance.. He doesn't want to have to focus on someones else. He wants to take care of himself and be independant and self sufficent. He enjoys his solace and when he needs to crawl out of his cave he does.

 

He is another man with many desireable qualities and traits but isn't relationship material. I learned that the hard way. I went almost 4 months without seeing him last summer and I moved on. He is a lone wolf. When I told him I was involved with someone else he asked me who I would rather f*** and I said the other guy.. So I busted his bubble. I know what getting involved with this guy is about too. I couldn't survive it unless he has a ephiphany and all of a sudden realizes he wants a women close in his life with potential marital commitment within a reasonable time.

 

So him and charlie have the combined qualitites I seek in a partner. Neither of them are able to be complete for me. Neither of them are chosing to try a different way. At least from what I can see.

 

My friend has to desire frequent companionship (not once a week) and Charlie has to desire giving me loving/affectionate touch and attention as well as adult logical communication.

 

Neither of them can fullfill what lacks.